143 réponses à ce sujet

[Sina84]

cruc1al wrote...

Alphyn wrote...

This is like saying "This salt is too salty".

Insanity: exactly what it says on the tin.

But that's exactly where some people disagree. There's no actual insanity difficulty for people experienced with fps gaming or people who are good at tactical games. To me it seems insanity caters for RPG players who are looking for a challenge, not for FPS players who want to  beat an insanely difficult game. Granted, my first playthrough was Hardcore and I did die quite a bit because I didn't understand everything about the game mechanics, but it felt appropriate because getting killed in the game is part of what makes then succeeding fun. But after a couple of playthroughs, the whole game started to feel less and less challenging on insanity, to the point that I think insanity level should be harder than it is by e.g. making the AI smarter (considering it says in the game that insanity is aimed at people who have already beaten the game).

This.

If anything I would want the option to play a harder difficulty. I doubt they could make enemies smarter just from a technical standpoint, but certainly adding more of them would be feasable. My favourite fights on insanity was where you had enemies swarming in from all over, and you actually had to use your surroundings alot. Exploding cannisters and boxes are really satisfying when you manage to use them right in those situations, especially those that floated above you which you had to time. I wish there was more of that.

[EvilIguana966]

crimzontearz wrote...

EvilIguana966 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

you know........I remember Christina once posted on the original forum asking what people "wanted" out of harder difficulties in ME2 so that, since she was working on that particular aspect of the game, she could tweak it accordingly.

so everyone went on saying "please no more Insanity=attrition" or "please no more enemies with 38438429824 HP" or "please no more unreasonable damage output differentials between PCs and NPC"

all the while other comments would pop up like "give better AI to the enemies instead" or "all weapons of a certain kind (like all handcannons....all eviscerators) should do the same damage in the hands of anyone regardless of the difficulty setting and not be a peashooter in MY hands and a doomsday gun in the hands of the enemy...that's just ridiculous"

so far it looks like Christina did the EXACT opposite of what people asked for.

I went like halfway through ME2 on insanity....then I just realized I was having NO fun...and trust me whoever can look at my Gamer Profile can see I finished Halo3 on legendary and GoW 1 and 2 on insanity...I am no stranger to THAT kind of difficulty even tho I do find it frustrating...but ME2? No I think it is just THAT annoying at those levels of difficulty simply because the VAST MAJORITY OF ALL POWERS IS RENDERED USELESS because for some strange reason all enemies have defenses and defenses make everyone totally invulnerable to Biotics and Tech powers. One of course COULD rely on weapon damage but the outputs are tweaked so the SAME gun in my hands does a LOT less damage than it would is a loki mech was using it. it becomes a VERY boring war of attrition that is rendered worse by the face now ammo is counted.

It's like Bioware took the worse of ME1's insanity and decided to implement game mechanics in ME2 that would make it even MORE annoying...

ME2's insanity is a massive improvement over ME1.  No longer do enemies have 95+% damage immunity and health regen requiring you to literally just hold the fire button for half a minute.  Even on insanity in ME2 the enemies die pretty fast under sustained fire.  If you are finding that it takes too long to kill then you need to reassess your strategy.  Or, alternately, don't play insanity.  I found the balance to be just right. 

no you're right...now they just have 95%+ defenses AND they are immune to all powers....at least you could take enemies out of the fight for a little while by using one of your powers as CC......CC DOES NOT EXIST in ME2's insanity rendering some classes virtually useless at what they do best

sorry, the balance in insanity is rather broken

You may have a point.  I have only played as soldier thus far.  It always seemed odd to me that so many powers were negated by shields and armor.  I still think that the system is far less broken than it was in ME1.  Even if insanity is easier for other classes, you have the option of playing at lower difficulties.  In ME1 where insanity was too easy there was no way to play a better balanced game. 

[crimzontearz]

EvilIguana966 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

EvilIguana966 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

you know........I remember Christina once posted on the original forum asking what people "wanted" out of harder difficulties in ME2 so that, since she was working on that particular aspect of the game, she could tweak it accordingly.

so everyone went on saying "please no more Insanity=attrition" or "please no more enemies with 38438429824 HP" or "please no more unreasonable damage output differentials between PCs and NPC"

all the while other comments would pop up like "give better AI to the enemies instead" or "all weapons of a certain kind (like all handcannons....all eviscerators) should do the same damage in the hands of anyone regardless of the difficulty setting and not be a peashooter in MY hands and a doomsday gun in the hands of the enemy...that's just ridiculous"

so far it looks like Christina did the EXACT opposite of what people asked for.

I went like halfway through ME2 on insanity....then I just realized I was having NO fun...and trust me whoever can look at my Gamer Profile can see I finished Halo3 on legendary and GoW 1 and 2 on insanity...I am no stranger to THAT kind of difficulty even tho I do find it frustrating...but ME2? No I think it is just THAT annoying at those levels of difficulty simply because the VAST MAJORITY OF ALL POWERS IS RENDERED USELESS because for some strange reason all enemies have defenses and defenses make everyone totally invulnerable to Biotics and Tech powers. One of course COULD rely on weapon damage but the outputs are tweaked so the SAME gun in my hands does a LOT less damage than it would is a loki mech was using it. it becomes a VERY boring war of attrition that is rendered worse by the face now ammo is counted.

It's like Bioware took the worse of ME1's insanity and decided to implement game mechanics in ME2 that would make it even MORE annoying...

ME2's insanity is a massive improvement over ME1.  No longer do enemies have 95+% damage immunity and health regen requiring you to literally just hold the fire button for half a minute.  Even on insanity in ME2 the enemies die pretty fast under sustained fire.  If you are finding that it takes too long to kill then you need to reassess your strategy.  Or, alternately, don't play insanity.  I found the balance to be just right. 

no you're right...now they just have 95%+ defenses AND they are immune to all powers....at least you could take enemies out of the fight for a little while by using one of your powers as CC......CC DOES NOT EXIST in ME2's insanity rendering some classes virtually useless at what they do best

sorry, the balance in insanity is rather broken

You may have a point.  I have only played as soldier thus far.  It always seemed odd to me that so many powers were negated by shields and armor.  I still think that the system is far less broken than it was in ME1.  Even if insanity is easier for other classes, you have the option of playing at lower difficulties.  In ME1 where insanity was too easy there was no way to play a better balanced game. 

I did not find insanity "too hard".  Just to prove it to myself  I played a couple of sidequests on insanity  just a few hours ago to see if maybe after playing GoW again and RE5 the feelingchanged. It did not... It is not "too hard"..it's more like too tedious....I played the  bloodpack base assault and another silly mech + mercenary mission (cannot remember which one......) I died like once  getting stuck in the envronment after a biotic charge. the problem is that it becomes tedious.....Field pull followed by Warp followed by Area Reave followed by Biotic charge chain....

diversion powers like Drone, Dominate and Hacking  are good when you are in a tight spot...but you often do not get to use them because your teammates invariably get themselves killed......

no other power really matters because no other power really works aside for ammo powers and even then  shredder rounds and cryo rounds are nearly utterly useless (not talkiong about shepard's unique powers)...pull and throw are useful solely because they set up the warp explosion...nearly everything at this point hinges around defense-stripping and I kinda find that boring if you ask me because all enemies require more or less the same tactic. Defense strip first and blast with weapon at mid range to maximize damage. Sure playing in lower difficulties allows for the same mechanics BUT you can use your powers more creatively or variedly actually appreciating their effects and defense stripping is reserved for the few opponents who actually have defenses not for EVERY single mook (including husks.....husks......seriously?)

so whatever...during my insanity playthrugh I found myself annoyed enough that although I was progressing I just could not stand it anymore and just dropped it....

[abstractwhiz]

I'm beginning to think it's a matter of temperament. What you call tedium seems to be what some of us (myself included) are deriving enjoyment from. It seems that you get your kicks from using powers in creative ways, trying a few risky maneuvers, and not dealing with hordes of mooks that inexplicably have defenses. Meanwhile, I (for one) enjoy things like using "the right power" for each situation, switching weapons to maximize damage, dealing with the tactical complexity of large numbers of enemies that aren't easily killed, and trying to play without making any mistakes at all.

It's easy to see how Insanity might annoy someone with your temperament. Risky maneuvers are rarely rewarded, because 99% of them kill you almost instantly, and creative power uses aren't easy to do because of all the defenses. This is probably doubly difficult with a Vanguard, a class explicitly designed for risky gameplay. 

On the other hand, I enjoy this precisely because it makes risky gameplay impossible. One of the things that always annoyed me about the multiplayer versions of most FPS games was that people would wind up running around at breakneck speed shooting things - a scenario that I consider way too unrealistic. I want to feel like my character is in danger of getting killed by a stray bullet, and must operate with caution and tactics in order to survive. 

I don't know how to balance this out. I'm finding it hard to imagine a system that would work for both kinds of gameplay. If you get killed very easily, risky gameplay is difficult and you'll find it tedious. If risky gameplay is possible, then the richness of tactical combat is a pointless waste. One type of player is going to get shortchanged no matter what you do. 

But since I think my way is how combat should be handled anyway...:innocent:

Modifié par abstractwhiz, 29 avril 2010 - 03:09 .

[crimzontearz]

abstractwhiz wrote...

I'm beginning to think it's a matter of temperament. What you call tedium seems to be what some of us (myself included) are deriving enjoyment from. It seems that you get your kicks from using powers in creative ways, trying a few risky maneuvers, and not dealing with hordes of mooks that inexplicably have defenses. Meanwhile, I (for one) enjoy things like using "the right power" for each situation, switching weapons to maximize damage, dealing with the tactical complexity of large numbers of enemies that aren't easily killed, and trying to play without making any mistakes at all.

It's easy to see how Insanity might annoy someone with your temperament. Risky maneuvers are rarely rewarded, because 99% of them kill you almost instantly, and creative power uses aren't easy to do because of all the defenses. This is probably doubly difficult with a Vanguard, a class explicitly designed for risky gameplay. 

On the other hand, I enjoy this precisely because it makes risky gameplay impossible. One of the things that always annoyed me about the multiplayer versions of most FPS games was that people would wind up running around at breakneck speed shooting things - a scenario that I consider way too unrealistic. I want to feel like my character is in danger of getting killed by a stray bullet, and must operate with caution and tactics in order to survive. 

I don't know how to balance this out. I'm finding it hard to imagine a system that would work for both kinds of gameplay. If you get killed very easily, risky gameplay is difficult and you'll find it tedious. If risky gameplay is possible, then the richness of tactical combat is a pointless waste. One type of player is going to get shortchanged no matter what you do. 

But since I think my way is how combat should be handled anyway...:innocent:

not really........

Charge is almost overpowered on insanity.

here's how it works:

your shields/helath are down? Equip Claymore, bring up the power wheel, find and isolated enemy that does not have 2 separate defenses, Charge at him/her/it, your shield are healed either 75% or 100% depending on how you specialized, shotgun to the face while in "bullet time" followed by melee combo chain will bring anything down. The other enemies on the field just do not follow you quick enough and you have all the time in the world to find another cover and repeat the process.

If there is a group of enemies hunkered down it's time for Pull field (which will have no effect whatsoever aside for setting up the detonation) followed by Unstable Warp followed Area Reave...everything in the AOE will be stripped of all defenses after that....allow 3 seconds of cooldown time and then charge the whole group if you have Area Charge......all of them will be sent flying and damaged......at which point you can pick them off or even charge from one to the other never really losing your shields because charge always brings them back up

risky gameplay is possible on insanity but only under certain conditions otherwise it just kills you off, but even then it is ALL incentered around careful defense stripping and the usage of only like 3 powers because everything else is either useless OR useful in the instance of setting up another defense stripping

which I do find tedious

[Tlazolteotl]

Umm ... I find your dismissal of powers as "useless" somewhat ill conceived.

Shockwave is very difficult to use, due to the need to traverse the distance, but everything else is pure awesome.

I'm not just randomly boasting, you know. I have videos.

[cruc1al]

crimzontearz wrote...

your shields/helath are down? Equip Claymore, bring up the power wheel, find and isolated enemy that does not have 2 separate defenses, Charge at him/her/it, your shield are healed either 75% or 100% depending on how you specialized, shotgun to the face while in "bullet time" followed by melee combo chain will bring anything down. The other enemies on the field just do not follow you quick enough and you have all the time in the world to find another cover and repeat the process.

Yep. Charge is powerful. But it has its learning curve... You can't just charge anything, you have to choose a target on the periphery of the enemy squad so you can get to a cover where you won't be easily flanked, and you have to have an opportunity to charge someone else from that position in a way that you can get to cover again. If the enemy starts shooting at you after you've charged, there's usually about a second before your health is vulnerable (0.5s for shields, 0.5s immunity), and that's not alot.

If there is a group of enemies hunkered down it's time for Pull field (which will have no effect whatsoever aside for setting up the detonation) followed by Unstable Warp followed Area Reave...everything in the AOE will be stripped of all defenses after that....allow 3 seconds of cooldown time and then charge the whole group if you have Area Charge......all of them will be sent flying and damaged......at which point you can pick them off or even charge from one to the other never really losing your shields because charge always brings them back up

What. You use pull field on shielded targets, and then use unstable warp? You know, there will be no detonation unless the pulled target is actually pulled, i.e. in ragdoll mode.

Also did you know that any target affected by pull (again in ragdoll), when charged, will be sent flying (compare to pull+throw)? And that any weapon damage to pulled targets is doubled?

Anyway, what is this talk about risky gameplay... I'm not really sure what you're trying to say - that it should be possible or it doesn't matter or what? IMO risky gameplay is stupid because it's risky. Risky = high chance of getting killed. Aggressive and tactically calculated gameplay is another matter completely.

[crimzontearz]

if you use pull field and then warp even on shielded opponents they will detonate often losing all defenses...you can hear the detonation sound and all

[cruc1al]

crimzontearz wrote...

if you use pull field and then warp even on shielded opponents they will detonate often losing all defenses...you can hear the detonation sound and all

That's simply not true. Compare pulling a shielded target, then casting unstable warp, to pulling an unshielded target and then casting unstable warp, and it's only in the latter case that the enemies around will get 1 warp's worth of damage.

[toasty_toast]

I'm on my second playthrough with a new Shepard on Insanity and I'm finding it mildly challenging so far. I just passed Horizon which I hear is supposed to be a pain,



Using a Soldier with Adrenaline Rush + Sniper Rifle makes things much easier. I'd imagine this would be a lot tougher with a Vanguard (my Shephard I carried over from 1).

[crimzontearz]

cruc1al wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

if you use pull field and then warp even on shielded opponents they will detonate often losing all defenses...you can hear the detonation sound and all

That's simply not true. Compare pulling a shielded target, then casting unstable warp, to pulling an unshielded target and then casting unstable warp, and it's only in the latter case that the enemies around will get 1 warp's worth of damage.

you know what you were right, I THOUGHT it was working solely because I used it on an enemy with Biotic Barrier as a defense...if you use Warp on a biotic barrier strangely the visual and sound effects are those of a Warp Detonation..without the splash damage....odd, still, you were right.

I just wanted to add something to this thread tho....I picked back up on the insanity playthrough where I left off after beating the Praetorian on Horizon. What really REALLY becomes tedious is that the Insanity setting makes the flaws in the AI shine through. in other settings if a squadmate does not stay in cover it does not matter much aside oerhaps for a couple of situations but on insanity not being in cover equals a quick death...and they NEVER stay in cover the way you tell them to resulting in always having to deal with some of the worst situations alone since they decided to stand up in the middle of a fight and invite everything in range to tear them a new rectal passage.

Enemy in plain sight, you order them to shoot, it takes them a whole 3 seconds to actually fire....

you order them to go from point A to point B to avoid enemy fire and they take 3 steps in the right direction only to turn around and walk straight into a whole enemy squad for no apparent reason.....and since all enemies have defenses that are actually FAR more effective than those used by anyone in the squad (including JUST escaped convicts who have shields that are about twice as effective as those of Shepard himself  who is supposed to be using the VERY best equipment money can buy....yeah....that makes total sense....yes....mooks with defenses still pisses me off) that means death in about 3 seconds.....so often you end up leaving them FAAAAAAAR behind stuck somewhere and use them solely through their powers (90% of the time defense stripping ones) that happen to work with YOUR line of sight and not THEIRS....(meaning they  can be standing right behind an enemy and thus in prime position to lay some damage......but......if YOU do not see the enemy directly yourself their power will just not work OR bounce off cover as if you used it and not them)...


at this point I will finish the playthrough in maybe about 2 weeks since  work is being a pain lately and I only have a couple of hours a day MAYBE to play...and will probably finish it for the sole purpose of having the "right" to tell people what I think about  it without being answered with "well maybe it's just too hard for you.....real gamers find insanity to be a walk in the park"

Modifié par crimzontearz, 04 mai 2010 - 03:07 .

[Tlazolteotl]

I wouldn't call it a walk in the park ... it certainly took me very many hours to figure out how to pwn it without dying.

[JedTed]

I think the reason they called the difficulty "Insane" is because you have to be totally INSANE to even think about playing. Either that or it requires a Zen-like level of patience to get through it(which i clearly don't have).



I think they could've atleast given your squad more health and sheilds because they deffinatly get themselves killed a lot. Or maybe if they let you carry more medi-gel from the beginning you wouldn't feel like you're wasting everytime your squad dies.



IMO, they should've tweaked the level scaling for Insanity. Like not make all the enemies if the early parts of the game have so much sheilds and armor. It's crazy how your sheilds go down within a few minutes of being exposed when the enemies' sheilds take a bit longer.

[Cheese Elemental]

I think it's not hard enough.

I mean, that might be because I play a lot of shooters as well as RPGs, but I was playing Modern Warfare 2 last night and veteran difficulty (the highest) in the campaign is absolutely ridiculous. Grenades fly at you mercilessly, flashbangs are constantly going off, enemies kill you with one melee attack, they spray full-auto, etc...

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

JedTed wrote...

I think the reason they called the difficulty "Insane" is because you have to be totally INSANE to even think about playing. Either that or it requires a Zen-like level of patience to get through it(which i clearly don't have).

I think they could've atleast given your squad more health and sheilds because they deffinatly get themselves killed a lot. Or maybe if they let you carry more medi-gel from the beginning you wouldn't feel like you're wasting everytime your squad dies.

IMO, they should've tweaked the level scaling for Insanity. Like not make all the enemies if the early parts of the game have so much sheilds and armor. It's crazy how your sheilds go down within a few minutes of being exposed when the enemies' sheilds take a bit longer.

Why the thread necromancy?

[JedTed]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

I think it's not hard enough.

You sir, are insane!

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Why the thread necromancy?

I thought it would be better than starting a new thread just to complain about how hard the game is on Insanity.

[chapa3]

Nothing wrong with starting a new thread. More potential for interesting discussion.

[fantasypisces]

I just started my first insanity run (so far have done mordin, grunt, kasumi, garrus), and besides the first fight in the vaults for kasumi, I haven't had too much difficulty (NG+ lvl 30 caster-sentinel), but that could change when I get to Horizon apparently.



But I don't know if I will finish the insanity run, and here is why:



It is boring. Sitting behind cover, overload, shoot, overload, shoot, change position, tech armor, shoot, shoot, reave, shoot, yay, killed my first enemy. It is tedious like the OP said (I don't agree with it being hard though). The only reason it is "insane" is because the PC's health, armor, and damage is reduced, while enemy stats went up, and they were given a lot of layers of protection.



Insanity just feels more like work than fun, so I usually play veteran when I just want to kill stuff, and hardcore when I want to play a game that I will enjoy.

[Whereto]

Insanity isn't fun for me but i find all the other difficulties to easy...



Its easy for all of you to say "your a bad player" but all these people have valid points. If this is the best the game can throw at us it is hopeless for game play. If you think about it, all the game does is make enemies bullet sponges and you a hole ridden sponge with a ammo supply. YES hard enemies should be hard but i mean grunts.... wtf is with them having better shields than you. It would be much better if they had weaker shields and used cover more often rather than rush you