524 réponses à ce sujet

[Loerwyn]

Tirigon wrote...
Why is sexualized imagery per se degrading? I´d say it´s only degrading if it´s forced on people who don´t want to show certain parts of their physiology, and as long as characters in games don´t actually have a personaity themselves I can´t see why it would be degrading.

I never understood that, myself. Apparently strip clubs are degrading to women, even though women do choose to do that with their lives.
Iceland (I think) banned theirs and called it a "victory for feminism". I sighed and felt sorry for all the people who've lost jobs 'cos of it.

[Seagloom]

Godak wrote...

Well, I'm glad to hear that you don't spend your free time on highschool campuses!

You couldn't get me to visit a high school campus if I was hired to work in one. I'm never returning to high school. The very thought chills me to the bone.

[Blackveldt]

Tirigon wrote...

I don´t see the problem with "legs and cleavage". I mean, sometimes it´s a bit ridiculous, but would you honestly prefer the women in games to be fat and ugly?

There is such a thing as 'too much.'  "Fat and ugly [women]" have nothing to do with placing higher emphasis on physical features such as "legs and cleavage" over more significant traits, skills, or even basic role(s) (in game).

Again, I point to this video which is rather well-done in its analytical assessment of such subject matter.

[Seagloom]

No. I'm suspect of people offering me huge sums of money for seemingly harmless tasks. My first thought would be "why?" followed immediately by "what does he really want from me?"



Unless I needed money desperately to pay for a medical procedure or to avoid homelessness, I would decline such a dubious offer.

[Godak]

Tirigon wrote...

Why is sexualized imagery per se degrading? I´d say it´s only degrading if it´s forced on people who don´t want to show certain parts of their physiology, and as long as characters in games don´t actually have a personaity themselves I can´t see why it would be degrading.

You're missing the point completely. Look at the way women are portrayed in video games. They are objects used to attract a man's eye, nothing more.

On the strip club thing...It really depends. I know that there have been many issues with employment, etc. Many strippers are essentially strong armed into working for the club, yada yada...I'm sure it isn't like that for all clubs, but many legal establishements simply turn a blind eye.

Seagloom wrote...

Godak wrote...

Well, I'm glad to hear that you don't spend your free time on highschool campuses!

You couldn't get me to visit a high school campus if I was hired to work in one. I'm never returning to high school. The very thought chills me to the bone.

High school has been...boring. I really haven't learned anything. No, really.

[Tirigon]

Godak wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Why is sexualized imagery per se degrading? I´d say it´s only degrading if it´s forced on people who don´t want to show certain parts of their physiology, and as long as characters in games don´t actually have a personaity themselves I can´t see why it would be degrading.

You're missing the point completely. Look at the way women are portrayed in video games. They are objects used to attract a man's eye, nothing more.

I´m not sure that is so.
I mean, let´s just look at the women in the games this forum is theoretically about:

Morrigan: Doesn´t really care for looks, her robe is from the time in the wilds (and not really sexy imo).
Leliana: Dressed, by default, in a modest chantry robe.
Wynne: Old and fully dressed.
Shale: A little ... rocky.
Mhairi: Plate mail, and it´s more than the bikini.....

Miranda: She says herself her looks are genetically designed to be attractive ---> explanation for her outfit by her background.
Samara: Ok, she could show a little bit less of her breasts, but it´s not too bad yet.
Shepard (female): Dressed in full armor.
NPC women: All dressed modestly (except strippers, for obvious reasons)
Jack: Ok, she´s crazy....

So, except for Jack maybe, can you rightfully say they´re just objects to attract lurid stares? I doubt it.

[Statulos]

Seagloom wrote...

No. I'm suspect of people offering me huge sums of money for seemingly harmless tasks. My first thought would be "why?" followed immediately by "what does he really want from me?"

Unless I needed money desperately to pay for a medical procedure or to avoid homelessness, I would decline such a dubious offer.

If you get an offer of that kind don´t hesitate to contact me because my situation is degenerating fast into your second hipothesis.

[Seagloom]

@Tirigon - I think the Morrigan bit is subjective considering how many guys seem to find her hawt around these parts, and that she was intentionally designed as sexually attractive. (I realize you tacked on IMO but the preceding sentence read like an objective statement.)

For months before Dragon Age released, Morrigan was the poster child for the lust in advertisement taglines. I also posit Morrigan does care for her looks at least a little to wear make-up and appreciate finer jewelry. I'm not interested in butting into your debate, but that line was too hard for me to resist.

Modifié par Seagloom, 17 avril 2010 - 11:08 .

[Seagloom]

Statulos wrote...

If you get an offer of that kind don´t hesitate to contact me because my situation is degenerating fast into your second hipothesis.

I will. With any luck you won't need it though.

[Tirigon]

Seagloom wrote...

@Tirigon - I think the Morrigan bit is subjective considering how many guys seem to find her hawt around these parts, and that she was intentionally designed as sexually attractive. (I realize you tacked on IMO but the preceding sentence read like an objective statement.)

That´s because the preceding sentence was an objective statement, while the part in brackets wasn´t.

And while you´re right about her liking jewelry there is a conversation where Leliana advises Morrigan on her styling and Morrigan answers with "you realize I lived in the wilds, do you?"

[Cascadus]

Godak wrote...

You're missing the point completely. Look at the way women are portrayed in video games. They are objects used to attract a man's eye, nothing more.

Huh, I could of sworn that Alyx from Half-Life 2 was none of this and remains to be one of the most relateble, useful and likeable characters in the game, while not being sexualized in any way. Or... Jade from Beyond Good Or Evil for that matter. Or how about Sarah Kerrigan? Could of sworn the whole 'manipulated an entire sector and still regarded as one of the greatest villains of all time and overall an incredibly well written character' thing could of excused her. Hell, since when was FemShep an object meant for attracting a man's eye? The closest you can get her to fanservicey is her dress, which isn't all that appealing, to be honest.
I've seen what women are portrayed like in video-games. Yeah, there are the Kasumis (as in Dead or Alive) and the Lara Crofts, but asserting that all women are in video-games are objects of desire is stupid.

Modifié par Cascadus, 17 avril 2010 - 11:16 .

[Loerwyn]

Cascadus wrote...

Godak wrote...

You're missing the point completely. Look at the way women are portrayed in video games. They are objects used to attract a man's eye, nothing more.

Huh, I could of sworn that Alyx from Half-Life 2 was none of this and remains to be one of the most relateble, useful and likeable characters in the game. Or... Jade from Beyond Good Or Evil for that matter. Or how about Sarah Kerrigan? Hell, since when was FemShep an object meant for attracting a man's eye? The closest you can get her to fanservicey is her dress, which isn't all that appealing, to be honest.
I've seen what women are portrayed like in video-games. Yeah, there are the Kasumis (as in Dead or Alive) and the Lara Crofts, but asserting that all women are in video-games are objects of desire is stupid.

Aribeth, Rochelle, Zoey... Um... Wow, we could be here all day.

[Statulos]

Seagloom wrote...

Statulos wrote...

If you get an offer of that kind don´t hesitate to contact me because my situation is degenerating fast into your second hipothesis.

I will. With any luck you won't need it though.

Right now things are quite bad on my side so anything actually helps.

[Seagloom]

Tirigon wrote...

That´s because the preceding sentence was an objective statement, while the part in brackets wasn´t.

And while you´re right about her liking jewelry there is a conversation where Leliana advises Morrigan on her styling and Morrigan answers with "you realize I lived in the wilds, do you?"

Okay, then I reiterate my disagreement with your objective statement.

Other than Morrigan's make-up, jewelry, dev comments about her before Dragon Age's release, and her role in the ad campaign there is also this quote from her codex page that appears once her approval climbs high enough:

"Morrigan's critical eye is not reserved solely for others. Knowing or not, she has a simple fondness for jewelry and is very particular about her appearance."

Modifié par Seagloom, 17 avril 2010 - 11:35 .

[Cascadus]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...
Aribeth, Rochelle, Zoey... Um... Wow, we could be here all day.

What about Rochelle or Zoey? I can't imagine any moment where they're exploited for their sexuality. Hell, half the L4D fanbase inexplicably hates Rochelle as much as they inexplicably love Zoey. And what does Aribeth have anything to do with it? Valve gets a free pass, considering Rochelle or Zoey (one of the maybe three significant female NPCs in a Valve game, because the rebels don't really count and Dr. Mossman isn't exactly what I'd call 'hot') And what did you possibly get out of what I said?
Did I say that BioWare has some kind of sterling record of never appealing to it's male audience? Hell no. What I said was that FemShep isn't fanservicey in any way. She's a strong, independant woman and the only reason sentient life isn't dust in the wind. I'd say that's a pretty good position. BioWare has always appealed to fanservice. Miranda is a clear example of this, the asari an entire race of it, plus the whole 'space-cleavage' thing and whatnot.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make. And please, do go on. I can rattle off all the BioWare fanservice characters I can, but you pretty much exhausted the vast majority of female NPCs in Valve games, and the ones that remain are either a player character who's design is very far from sexualized, a robot with a penchant for nerve toxins and Dr. Mossman.

Modifié par Cascadus, 17 avril 2010 - 11:40 .

[Godak]

Cascadus...you can count the number of times women have been portrayed tastefully in video games. That's a good start. How about you start counting the number of times they've been portrayed tastelessly? It starts getting a little scary.



I'm not trying to take away from the developers who aim for gender equality...I'm merely chastising the ones who disrespect a particular gender.

[Cascadus]

I'm perfectly aware of how many times women are objectified are in the video-game industry, but when you say 'Look at the way women are portrayed in video games. They are objects used to attract a man's eye, nothing more.' that's an incredibly overarching and sweeping statement. I was simply stating the inconsistency in the statement.

[Loerwyn]

Cascadus wrote...
What about Rochelle or Zoey? I can't imagine any moment where they're exploited for their sexuality. Hell, half the L4D fanbase inexplicably hates Rochelle as much as they inexplicably love Zoey. And what does Aribeth have anything to do with it? Valve gets a free pass, considering Rochelle or Zoey (one of the maybe three significant female NPCs in a Valve game, because the rebels don't really count and Dr. Mossman isn't exactly what I'd call 'hot') And what did you possibly get out of what I said?
Did I say that BioWare has some kind of sterling record of never appealing to it's male audience? Hell no. What I said was that FemShep isn't fanservicey in any way. She's a strong, independant woman and the only reason sentient life isn't dust in the wind. I'd say that's a pretty good position. BioWare has always appealed to fanservice. Miranda is a clear example of this, the asari an entire race of it, plus the whole 'space-cleavage' thing and whatnot.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make. And please, do go on. I can rattle off all the BioWare fanservice characters I can, but you pretty much exhausted the vast majority of female NPCs in Valve games, and the ones that remain are either a player character who's design is very far from sexualized, a robot with a penchant for nerve toxins and Dr. Mossman.

I thought you were listing characters who aren't used to attract "the eyes of men". Whoops.

[Godak]

Cascadus wrote...

I'm perfectly aware of how many times women are objectified are in the video-game industry, but when you say 'Look at the way women are portrayed in video games. They are objects used to attract a man's eye, nothing more.' that's an incredibly overarching and sweeping statement. I was simply stating the inconsistency in the statement.

It was a generalization. It was not meant to be taken at face value. Still, most companies have done it at some point or another...

[Godak]

Iron Man195 wrote...

Why can't we all just be nude? Yeah, there's a question for you, makes you wonder.

Sunburn.

[WARDEN9652]

^^ good point lol

[Seagloom]

Pockets are nice too.

[Zaxares]

In some parts of the world, it's too damn cold to go around without clothing.