41 réponses à ce sujet

[TotalLamer]

Seriously... am I the only one who can't come up with a course through the dialog here that's paticularly satisfying?  As a Dalish my character would surely want to desecrate the ashes if only to stick it to the Chantry who's persecuted her people for so many years, yet the only way to go about this is to believe that some dragon is Andrastae reborn when she doesn't even believe in Andrastae in the first place.  And Kolgrim is clearly nuts anyway.  Uggh.

[Sarah1281]

Considering that Andraste gave the Dalish people a home, I don't know why a Dalish would want to destroy her ashes for that and the Chantry (who don't believe that the ashes still exist anyway) would never hear of it. By not killing Andraste-dragon, killing Genitivi, or making Genitivi go back to Denerim without accompanying you up the mountain and never visiting him, the Chantry doesn't redisover the ashes anyway. And why would you want to rid the world of a powerful curative anyway? Regardless of the reason (and my money is on the lyrium), multiple sources confirm that they do heal prior to them working on Eamon.



But some of the diaogue choices for the queste do irritate me. Like what Wynne says if you bring her about how everyone make mistakes and in some Origins (like the CE) it's completely inappropriate and what else were you supposed to do? And how in the Mage Origin Jowan appears to 'forgive' you. What about you forgiving him? He's the one who screwed you over. Or the Guardian acting like you having a rational reason for not blaming yourself for what happened (especially in the CE origin) means you're not accepting responsibility...ugh.

[TotalLamer]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Considering that Andraste gave the Dalish people a home, I don't know why a Dalish would want to destroy her ashes for that and the Chantry (who don't believe that the ashes still exist anyway) would never hear of it. By not killing Andraste-dragon, killing Genitivi, or making Genitivi go back to Denerim without accompanying you up the mountain and never visiting him, the Chantry doesn't redisover the ashes anyway. And why would you want to rid the world of a powerful curative anyway? Regardless of the reason (and my money is on the lyrium), multiple sources confirm that they do heal prior to them working on Eamon.

But some of the diaogue choices for the queste do irritate me. Like what Wynne says if you bring her about how everyone make mistakes and in some Origins (like the CE) it's completely inappropriate and what else were you supposed to do? And how in the Mage Origin Jowan appears to 'forgive' you. What about you forgiving him? He's the one who screwed you over. Or the Guardian acting like you having a rational reason for not blaming yourself for what happened (especially in the CE origin) means you're not accepting responsibility...ugh.

Mostly it's just irritating that it seems every single dialog choice on that quest assumes that your character believes in the Maker.  There's never any "this is all a bunch of BS" option.

[Chuvvy]

I'm hungry.

[TotalLamer]

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm hungry.

...for brains?

[CalJones]

What Sarah said. But nonetheless, I understand where you're coming from - I've had anti-Chantry characters (mages, mostly...for obvious reasons) who could have done with a more plausible reason to trash the ashes than deal with an obvious nut-job like Lolgrim (that was actually a typo, but I decided Lolgrim was a more appropriate name for him and left it).

[TotalLamer]

CalJones wrote...

What Sarah said. But nonetheless, I understand where you're coming from - I've had anti-Chantry characters (mages, mostly...for obvious reasons) who could have done with a more plausible reason to trash the ashes than deal with an obvious nut-job like Lolgrim (that was actually a typo, but I decided Lolgrim was a more appropriate name for him and left it).

I guess there's always the option of rationalizing it as "Yeah I did what he said, but I was just using him because I ended up killing him after I was done"...I guess. >.>

[Reaverwind]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Considering that Andraste gave the Dalish people a home, I don't know why a Dalish would want to destroy her ashes for that and the Chantry (who don't believe that the ashes still exist anyway) would never hear of it. By not killing Andraste-dragon, killing Genitivi, or making Genitivi go back to Denerim without accompanying you up the mountain and never visiting him, the Chantry doesn't redisover the ashes anyway. And why would you want to rid the world of a powerful curative anyway? Regardless of the reason (and my money is on the lyrium), multiple sources confirm that they do heal prior to them working on Eamon.

But some of the diaogue choices for the queste do irritate me. Like what Wynne says if you bring her about how everyone make mistakes and in some Origins (like the CE) it's completely inappropriate and what else were you supposed to do? And how in the Mage Origin Jowan appears to 'forgive' you. What about you forgiving him? He's the one who screwed you over. Or the Guardian acting like you having a rational reason for not blaming yourself for what happened (especially in the CE origin) means you're not accepting responsibility...ugh.

Oh yea - that one really gets me, too My character failed Jowen - say what? It's the other way around, boy. While a lot a of DA's dialogue is good, some of it really leaves me wondering if the writer didn't have one too many.

[Sarah1281]

Reaverwind wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Considering that Andraste gave the Dalish people a home, I don't know why a Dalish would want to destroy her ashes for that and the Chantry (who don't believe that the ashes still exist anyway) would never hear of it. By not killing Andraste-dragon, killing Genitivi, or making Genitivi go back to Denerim without accompanying you up the mountain and never visiting him, the Chantry doesn't redisover the ashes anyway. And why would you want to rid the world of a powerful curative anyway? Regardless of the reason (and my money is on the lyrium), multiple sources confirm that they do heal prior to them working on Eamon.

But some of the diaogue choices for the queste do irritate me. Like what Wynne says if you bring her about how everyone make mistakes and in some Origins (like the CE) it's completely inappropriate and what else were you supposed to do? And how in the Mage Origin Jowan appears to 'forgive' you. What about you forgiving him? He's the one who screwed you over. Or the Guardian acting like you having a rational reason for not blaming yourself for what happened (especially in the CE origin) means you're not accepting responsibility...ugh.

Oh yea - that one really gets me, too My character failed Jowen - say what? It's the other way around, boy. While a lot a of DA's dialogue is good, some of it really leaves me wondering if the writer didn't have one too many.

 Oh, you just know that Jowan feels like the victim in this.

[BHRamsay]

excuse me , I'm just doing my first Mage run -- are you telling me that useless pile Jowan appears at the ashes to "forgive me" for letting HIM down?



Well that just SUCKS!!!

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, sorry. You can tell the guardian you don't regret your actions, though.

[Reaverwind]

BHRamsay wrote...

excuse me , I'm just doing my first Mage run -- are you telling me that useless pile Jowan appears at the ashes to "forgive me" for letting HIM down?

Well that just SUCKS!!!

Yup, and the Guardian has the gall to ask you if you think you failed Jowan!!! With my last mage, I flat-out refused to answer the question, as the dialogue choices AND your companion responses make no sense. Playtest much, Bioware?

Edit: @Sarah - yea, the responses for the CE origin are even worse.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 14 avril 2010 - 11:40 .

[Sarah1281]

Reaverwind wrote...

BHRamsay wrote...

excuse me , I'm just doing my first Mage run -- are you telling me that useless pile Jowan appears at the ashes to "forgive me" for letting HIM down?

Well that just SUCKS!!!

Yup, and the Guardian has the gall to ask you if you think you failed Jowan!!! With my last mage, I flat-out refused to answer the question, as the dialogue choices AND your companion responses make no sense. Playtest much, Bioware?

Edit: @Sarah - yea, the responses for the CE origin are even worse.

Yeah, for the HN it's a fair queston because you might have been able to convince your mother to leave. Ditto with the DN and the Trian situation where you either played into Bhelen's hand by killing him yourself or could have confronted Trian about Bhelen's insistence he was out to kill you before the expedition and fo the DC where they pretty much just ask if you feel guilty that you're life is awesome now and the people you care about are back in Dust Town. Haven't played the DE but the CE dialogue with Shianni was pretty good.

And why can't the guardian ask the Mage if they felt they failed the Circle if they didn't warn Irving or fail Lily for not trying to stop her from being an idiot and going along with Mr. 'I'm not capable of making a rational decision'? Then again, most people hate Lily so that wouldn't work. Why do so many people hate Lily?

[Cuddlezarro]

TotalLamer wrote...

Seriously... am I the only one who can't come up with a course through the dialog here that's paticularly satisfying?  As a Dalish my character would surely want to desecrate the ashes if only to stick it to the Chantry who's persecuted her people for so many years, yet the only way to go about this is to believe that some dragon is Andrastae reborn when she doesn't even believe in Andrastae in the first place.  And Kolgrim is clearly nuts anyway.  Uggh.

huh you dont have to beleive the dragon is andraste reborn to defiles the ashes infact I told the guardian at the start of the gauntlet that I didnt think the dragon was andrate

I defiled them on my last playthrough because I wanted the power the loony cult was offering to help me stop the blight then when they gave it to me killed the loony cultists AND there pet dragon =/

also why wouldent your dalish beleive in Andraste when she was the woman who freed your people from slavery =/

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 14 avril 2010 - 11:45 .

[Sarah1281]

huh you dont have to beleive the dragon is andraste reborn to defiles the ashes infact I told the guardian at the start of the gauntlet that I didnt think the dragon was andrate

But if you tell Kolgrim that he tries to kill you.

[Cuddlezarro]

Sarah1281 wrote...

huh you dont have to beleive the dragon is andraste reborn to defiles the ashes infact I told the guardian at the start of the gauntlet that I didnt think the dragon was andrate

But if you tell Kolgrim that he tries to kill you.

its called lying

plus you dont need to tell him you beleive in his BS any ways just solong you dont say you *dont* not believe him

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 14 avril 2010 - 11:51 .

[TotalLamer]

also why wouldent your dalish beleive in Andraste when she was the woman who freed your people from slavery =/

Wut?

Andrastae is part of the whole Chantry/Maker thing, both of which the Dalish are anything but fans of... I've never seen any Dalish mention Andrastae, even.

[Reaverwind]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, for the HN it's a fair queston because you might have been able to convince your mother to leave. Ditto with the DN and the Trian situation where you either played into Bhelen's hand by killing him yourself or could have confronted Trian about Bhelen's insistence he was out to kill you before the expedition and fo the DC where they pretty much just ask if you feel guilty that you're life is awesome now and the people you care about are back in Dust Town. Haven't played the DE but the CE dialogue with Shianni was pretty good.

And why can't the guardian ask the Mage if they felt they failed the Circle if they didn't warn Irving or fail Lily for not trying to stop her from being an idiot and going along with Mr. 'I'm not capable of making a rational decision'? Then again, most people hate Lily so that wouldn't work. Why do so many people hate Lily?

I think a lot of people dislike Lily because it's assumed the whole escape attempt was her plan (no credit to Jowan, lol). I agree, asking whether your PC felt they had failed the Circle or Lily would have been more valid questions, imo.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 14 avril 2010 - 11:58 .

[Cuddlezarro]

TotalLamer wrote...

also why wouldent your dalish beleive in Andraste when she was the woman who freed your people from slavery =/

Wut?

Andrastae is part of the whole Chantry/Maker thing, both of which the Dalish are anything but fans of... I've never seen any Dalish mention Andrastae, even.

you can ask Zathrians first about it during the dalish quest

she says the dalish are thankful for what Andraste did for there people but they dont worship her or her god


also Valenna has a conversation about Andraste in awakening

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 15 avril 2010 - 12:00 .

[Sarah1281]

TotalLamer wrote...

also why wouldent your dalish beleive in Andraste when she was the woman who freed your people from slavery =/

Wut?

Andrastae is part of the whole Chantry/Maker thing, both of which the Dalish are anything but fans of... I've never seen any Dalish mention Andrastae, even.

She freed the Dalish from slavery and gave them a home. That the Chantry later made her a demigod and took that home from them in her name is not exactly her fault.

[Axekix]

I remember a conversation with Zathrian (I think) where he talks about how they respect Andraste but don't revere her. If not Zath maybe his 2nd in command. It's been a while since I did the Dalish quests.

[Hyper Cutter]

Reaverwind wrote...

Oh yea - that one really gets me, too My character failed Jowen - say what? It's the other way around, boy. While a lot a of DA's dialogue is good, some of it really leaves me wondering if the writer didn't have one too many.

That idea of "failing" Jowan is sort of reasonable if you ratted him out to Irving, honestly. That's what my female mage did, and the question made sense in that context.

[Sarah1281]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Oh yea - that one really gets me, too My character failed Jowen - say what? It's the other way around, boy. While a lot a of DA's dialogue is good, some of it really leaves me wondering if the writer didn't have one too many.

That idea of "failing" Jowan is sort of reasonable if you ratted him out to Irving, honestly. That's what my female mage did, and the question made sense in that context.

Really? Doesn't Irving mention that you're not telling him anything new? I mean, maybe you could warn Jowan that Irving knows and change the plan but other than that...

[Zanderat]

Sarah1281 wrote...

huh you dont have to beleive the dragon is andraste reborn to defiles the ashes infact I told the guardian at the start of the gauntlet that I didnt think the dragon was andrate

But if you tell Kolgrim that he tries to kill you.

So?  Kill him.  I did......

[thegreateski]

The answer to this is simple.



Lie.



Lie through your teeth.



It doesn't matter what you say . . . only what you do.