41 réponses à ce sujet

[that_one_guy02]

TotalLamer wrote...
Mostly it's just irritating that it seems every single dialog choice on that quest assumes that your character believes in the Maker.  There's never any "this is all a bunch of BS" option.

Yeah, I totally agree. Though my Dalish wouldn't desecrate the ashes, he certainly did not believe in their powers. The dialogue options for Dalish are incredibly limited. Only a handful of people actually treated my character how I expected and I certainly didn't have "There is no Maker" dialogue options.

[Reaverwind]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Oh yea - that one really gets me, too My character failed Jowen - say what? It's the other way around, boy. While a lot a of DA's dialogue is good, some of it really leaves me wondering if the writer didn't have one too many.

That idea of "failing" Jowan is sort of reasonable if you ratted him out to Irving, honestly. That's what my female mage did, and the question made sense in that context.

Not really. I've played it both ways - and playing along with Irving makes it pretty clear your PC is nothing but a pawn in a very nasty game that has already sealed Jowan's fate. The only thing up in the air is Lily's fate, but unfortunately, your PC can't do anything to help her. I really resent the guardian's implication that it was my mage who cost Jowan his girlfriend, since it was his bloodmagic stunt that turned her against him.

[Gill Kaiser]

TotalLamer wrote...

also why wouldent your dalish beleive in Andraste when she was the woman who freed your people from slavery =/

Wut?

Andrastae is part of the whole Chantry/Maker thing, both of which the Dalish are anything but fans of... I've never seen any Dalish mention Andrastae, even.

Did you read the Codex? The Dalish riddle spirit flat out tells you that Andraste freed them from the Imperium during the Sacred Urn quest, even.

[tmp7704]

that_one_guy02 wrote...

Yeah, I totally agree. Though my Dalish wouldn't desecrate the ashes, he certainly did not believe in their powers. The dialogue options for Dalish are incredibly limited.

It may be because the very fact your character bothered to trek all way to this place means they actually do believe this may result in something. If you didn't believe the ashes may cure the Arl, you wouldn't be there at all and dialogue option to such effect would make your character look like an idiot whose right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

If you wanted option to discuss powers of ashes or lack thereof it should've taken place much earlier, in Redcliffe.

Modifié par tmp7704, 15 avril 2010 - 06:14 .

[Chuvvy]

TotalLamer wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm hungry.

...for brains?

Nah, I got something. Thanks for the offer though.

[Aisynia]

that_one_guy02 wrote...

TotalLamer wrote...
Mostly it's just irritating that it seems every single dialog choice on that quest assumes that your character believes in the Maker.  There's never any "this is all a bunch of BS" option.

Yeah, I totally agree. Though my Dalish wouldn't desecrate the ashes, he certainly did not believe in their powers. The dialogue options for Dalish are incredibly limited. Only a handful of people actually treated my character how I expected and I certainly didn't have "There is no Maker" dialogue options.

Dalish origin is the most crappy, underdeveloped origin in the game. It's barely there.

[CalJones]

tmp7704 wrote...

that_one_guy02 wrote...

Yeah, I totally agree. Though my Dalish wouldn't desecrate the ashes, he certainly did not believe in their powers. The dialogue options for Dalish are incredibly limited.

It may be because the very fact your character bothered to trek all way to this place means they actually do believe this may result in something. If you didn't believe the ashes may cure the Arl, you wouldn't be there at all and dialogue option to such effect would make your character look like an idiot whose right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

If you wanted option to discuss powers of ashes or lack thereof it should've taken place much earlier, in Redcliffe.

Unfortunately there is no option to do so, you are railroaded into this quest. Personally I'd have let Eamon die and concentrate on kicking darkspawn ass because Teagan could have filled his role more than adequately.
My only justification for traipsing after the ashes is that, after listening to Alistair cry over Duncan since Ostagar, I am not about to listen to him cry over Eamon as well. I'd rather be strapped to a rack in Fort Drakon.

[tmp7704]

CalJones wrote...

Unfortunately there is no option to do so, you are railroaded into this quest.

Well, the alternative would be -- do not go, leave Arl stuck in the coma. Then you have just 3 "armies" at your disposal, and without Arl's authority to back you up you are unable to call the Landsmeet, and thus unable to neutralize Loghain. Then if you try to deal with Loghain regular way most of your armies go "we signed up a treaty to fight the darkspawn not some local madman, f-off". If you don't deal with Loghain he brings the fight to you, at best annihilating both sides and leaving the country free for the darkspawn to roll over. Either way game over man, game over.

It'd be one of these so-called "consequences to making a choice in rpg" but somehow i doubt many players would like actually facing it. More likely there'd be lot of ****ing they lost a game because of option they picked in dialogue tree.

[Kerendar]

Didnt you read the rest of what she wrote tmp7704? Eamon dies, Teagan calls the Landsmeet, as the new Arl he has all the right to do it. Works fine since you're the one persuading the nobles anyway.

[CalJones]

Exactly so. If you talk to Ser Perth in the castle, he mentions either curing Eamon or letting Teagan take his place. Eamon is expendable, if Teagan is alive.

[tmp7704]

Kerendar wrote...

Didnt you read the rest of what she wrote tmp7704? Eamon dies, Teagan calls the Landsmeet, as the new Arl he has all the right to do it. Works fine since you're the one persuading the nobles anyway.

I did, but right and actual authority seem to be two different things in Ferelden, and the latter appears to be tied to personal respect the person holds with the public. It could be said by the same logic and "right" your character is nearly equal to Loghain in status if you're the human noble, once your father is dead. And yet see how much it actually matters in practice. Also, don't forget Eamon is the one who does the bulk of persuading and sets up the ground, without the work he does before you arrive it's doubtful the nobles would even listen to you seeing how you're painted a traitor by Loghain. I don't think Teagan would be really able to fill in, he doesn't seem to have as much clout in the scene where he questions Loghain's actions earlier in the game.

Modifié par tmp7704, 15 avril 2010 - 12:40 .

[DaneWolf]

I agree. Most Dialouge choices er too black and white... There are no colours in!

[Sarah1281]

Also, don't forget Eamon is the one who does the bulk of persuading and sets up the ground, without the work he does before you arrive it's doubtful the nobles would even listen to you seeing how you're painted a traitor by Loghain.

He does paint you a traitor and yet if you'll notice the only people who really care are corrupt Howe's men (who admit they do believe you're innocent before trying to kill you anyway), desperate refugees who need the money, and distraught survivors of Ostagar who can be talked down.



If a Landsmeet is called by an Arl, whoever they are, the nobles HAVE to come. They don't have a choice.

[Suron]

TotalLamer wrote...

Seriously... am I the only one who can't come up with a course through the dialog here that's paticularly satisfying?  As a Dalish my character would surely want to desecrate the ashes if only to stick it to the Chantry who's persecuted her people for so many years, yet the only way to go about this is to believe that some dragon is Andrastae reborn when she doesn't even believe in Andrastae in the first place.  And Kolgrim is clearly nuts anyway.  Uggh.

that's stupid.  Andraste FREE'd "your people" it was the Chantry that came AFTER her that subjugated and treated them like garbage..

defiling Andraste's ashes makes no sense..without her the Tevinter would still prob be in power and you would be even worse off.....

your logic and reasoning fail.

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

He does paint you a traitor and yet if you'll notice the only people who really care are corrupt Howe's men (who admit they do believe you're innocent before trying to kill you anyway), desperate refugees who need the money, and distraught survivors of Ostagar who can be talked down.

These people care enough to actually try to take you down. It does not mean other people don't believe the claims or don't care, they can be simply smart enough not to gamble their life in a fight with alleged traitor like the certain guard (arguably that whole situation is quite a stretch and in large part happens likely for gameplay purposes -- the game wouldn't get very far if you were dogged by swarms of soldiers and mobs trying to make a coin off your hide on each step you take in Denerim, and realistically it'd have to end there. Or at least require your group to try and somehow disguise themselves... but i get sidetracked)

If a Landsmeet is called by an Arl, whoever they are, the nobles HAVE to come. They don't have a choice.

Just like they HAVE in theory to support their queen and/or regent/teyrn. Doesn't stop half of them from trying to rebel against him or plain disobey.

An Arl is just a Bann put in charge of a strategic fortress by a teyrn. They have no banns sworn to them and on practical level aren't really much more than any other single noble. If the nobles can disregard words of a teyrn, they can even easier disregard words of an arl.

The nobles of Ferelden pretty much do what they feel like doing. If they don't feel like doing something, the only way to make them do it is by beating them down. The Landsmeet in game happens mostly because Eamon puts his personal authority behind a claim that there's this never mentioned until now bastard son of Maric who might have claim to the throne, and the wide public has enough respect for him to actually believe him and thus bother to attend.

Modifié par tmp7704, 15 avril 2010 - 02:54 .

[Kerendar]

tmp7704 wrote...
I did, but right and actual authority seem
to be two different things in Ferelden, and the latter appears to be
tied to personal respect the person holds with the public. It could be
said by the same logic and "right" your character is nearly equal to
Loghain in status if you're the human noble, once your father is dead.
And yet see how much it actually matters in practice.

That's so wrong I barely know what to say first. Teyrn Loghain is a commoner become Teyrn, the Hero of River Dane, the Hero who was essential in helping the beloved king Maric free Ferelden of the Orlesian oppressors.
You as a human noble are the youngest offspring of a teyrn, someone born into nobility with nothing more. You are your fathers child, he is "the man" speaking simply.

tmp7704 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

He does paint you a traitor and yet if you'll notice the only people who really care are corrupt Howe's men (who admit they do believe you're innocent before trying to kill you anyway), desperate refugees who need the money, and distraught survivors of Ostagar who can be talked down.

These people care enough to actually try to take you down. It does not mean other people don't believe the claims or don't care, they can be simply smart enough not to gamble their life in a fight with alleged traitor like the certain guard (arguably that whole situation is quite a stretch and in large part happens likely for gameplay purposes -- the game wouldn't get very far if you were dogged by swarms of soldiers and mobs trying to make a coin off your hide on each step you take in Denerim, and realistically it'd have to end there. Or at least require your group to try and somehow disguise themselves... but i get sidetracked)

How would the normal people even know who you are? They have heard of some Grey Wardens betraying the king but they have no face. Plus, commoners standing up against an armed and armored group of people? I doubt it. they have their own problems. And the captain of the guard tells you that he doesnt believe in Loghains claims.

tmp7704 wrote...
Just like they HAVE in theory to support their queen and/or regent/teyrn. Doesn't stop half of them from trying to rebel against him or plain disobey.

They are forced by no law to obey someone who declares himself regent without even asking them. Especially if there is the possibility that he let the king die in favor of his own power. That is exactly what Teagan says to him when he demands the Banns to obey and what starts the civil war even without your interference.

tmp7704 wrote...
An Arl is just a Bann put in charge of a strategic fortress by a teyrn. They have no banns sworn to them and on practical level aren't really much more than any other single noble. If the nobles can disregard words of a teyrn, they can even easier disregard words of an arl.

That is just complete wrong. There are ONLY TWO Teyrns in the whole of modern Ferelden. The Teyrn of Highever and Loghain. The others have lost these titles over time. Teyrn Cousland being dead and declared traitor and Loghain now self-declared regent that makes the Arls the highest of Nobles in Ferelden

tmp7704 wrote...
The nobles of Ferelden pretty much do what they feel like doing. If they don't feel like doing something, the only way to make them do it is by beating them down. The Landsmeet in game happens mostly because Eamon puts his personal authority behind a claim that there's this never mentioned until now bastard son of Maric who might have claim to the throne, and the wide public has enough respect for him to actually believe him and thus bother to attend.

Not quite true. Tradition is an important issue in Ferelden. The nobilty will still obey tradition and if a landsmeet is called they must attend. Plus: if there is only the slightest possibiliy that this landsmeet might resolve the civil war without fighting and allow them to face the darkspawn at the very least most of them will attend. They may have their quarrels but they arent utterly stupid.

Modifié par Kerendar, 15 avril 2010 - 05:55 .

[Sarah1281]

How would the normal people even know who you are? They have heard of some Grey Wardens betraying the king but they have no face. Plus, commoners standing up against an armed and armored group of people? I doubt it. they have their own problems. And the captain of the guard tells you the he doesnt believe in Loghains claims.

Agreed. When you ask Slim how he knows who you are he says the guards were all shown pictures (but Kylon is too smart to act on that) and he snuck a peak.