72 réponses à ce sujet

[Aisynia]

In response to both of you: you really blame them with how utterly hostile the Dalish are?



I have zero sympathy for Dalish.

[odiedragon]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Many people seem to feel that Cammen was enough of a justification.

indeed Cammen is justification enough to purge their taint from the genepool

I'm rather embarassed to admit just how much enjoyment I got out of killing Cammen.

And Varathorn.

And that stupid storyteller guy.

And Cammen's stupid girlfriend.

It felt SO GOOD... I was literally cheering out loud the whole time... but then I reloaded anyway.    If I'd gone there earlier in the game (I totally switched up the order on my Cousland playthrough) my PC would have totally slaughtered the stupid evil dirty elves.  But later in the game, it made more sense to RP her like that was her initial reaction ("Kill the dirty sods and their goat-a-corns!") but then she realized that it was Zathrian's fault, not the fault of the whole tribe

But man.  It felt so good.  Stupid Dalish.

Strangely enough, Zev never chewed me out about it... I didn't bring him with me, but I was expecting a Post Redcliffe Type Ass Chewing.  It never happened.

Modifié par odiedragon, 16 avril 2010 - 06:17 .

[Ramante]

odiedragon wrote...

Strangely enough, Zev never chewed me out about it... I didn't bring him with me, but I was expecting a Post Redcliffe Type Ass Chewing.  It never happened.

I asked him what his opinion about the Dalish was after I killed them... he didn't like that, at all!

The good thing about Zevran is that he tells you his opinion before you act, some of the other companions say nothing during the quest but once it is over they suddenly start screaming at you.

[Darthnemesis2]

Aisynia wrote...

In response to both of you: you really blame them with how utterly hostile the Dalish are?

I have zero sympathy for Dalish.

Ok, seriously? The dalish, who are trying to live by themselves, alone in the forest, are being driven out by crazy humans and you blame the dalish for that? Of course they're going to treat every human as an enemy when they're treated like that!

Both sides need to chill the f### out, but at least the dalish still being bitter is understandable. The humans are just paraniod psychopaths.

[Jawson]

I killed the Dalish, felt bad about a few of them, but they were jerks anyway. Plus the werewolves, were kick arse in the final battle.

[Urshakk]

TotalLamer wrote...

...persuade Swiftrunner / the Forest Spirit to kill the Dalish.  Never knew he had it in him!  Not that I did it in my actual game... Save before and Reload with the acheivement.   On that note, how many of you evil folks went through with it?

I just played through the treaty quest last night, usually I go the middle route and have Zathrian break the curse but I wanted to kill the elves this time. Happened to have Zevran in my party, didn't know he even cared for those Dalish Elves. As he said to me in camp:
PC: What is your opinion towards the Dalish?
Zevran: I don't feel anything towards them.

Oh really Zevran? That's why you went Harry Carry on me and got upset pleading to not kill the Dalish. Meh, whatever doesn't make much sense to me.

Decapitating Zathrian alone was worth it though.

[Ramante]

Urshakk wrote...
I just played through the treaty quest last night, usually I go the middle route and have Zathrian break the curse but I wanted to kill the elves this time. Happened to have Zevran in my party, didn't know he even cared for those Dalish Elves. As he said to me in camp:
PC: What is your opinion towards the Dalish?
Zevran: I don't feel anything towards them.

Oh really Zevran? That's why you went Harry Carry on me and got upset pleading to not kill the Dalish. Meh, whatever doesn't make much sense to me.

Have you paid attention to what he says when he tries to persuade you not to kill them? He gives the reason for not killing them right there; his mother was Dalish. Because of that he feels sort of 'related' to them.

Modifié par Ramante, 16 avril 2010 - 06:51 .

[Urshakk]

Yes his mother is Dalish, he told me in conversation he didn't feel anything towards them (i.e. he doesn't care) and then suddenly changes his mind at that point. That is contradicting, (especially since I had that convo with him right before I went to the Dalish) and who said his mother was from that clan? I doubt it. What elf isn't related to the Dalish in some way anyhow?



Just because his mother was Dalish isn't a good enough reason to spare those elves.

[Sharn01]

It could of course be that despite being an assassin he did not support wiping out an entire settlement of people who live their lives on the run from human persecution and had nothing to do with the curse.



I can understand how people can be in support of commiting evil acts in a video game, being evil when its not real and has no real world repercussions can be fun sometimes, but to try and justify that decision in reality is rediculous.

[krasnoarmeets]

I've gone through with it, but my mage brutally slaughtered Zevran anyway.

[Sharn01]

Aisynia wrote...

In response to both of you: you really blame them with how utterly hostile the Dalish are?

I have zero sympathy for Dalish.

Your entitled to your opinion of course,  I am sure there where a fair number of people who thought the US was justified in wiping out the last remnants of the Native American tribes.  Even if I did not think the rudeness of the Dalish was justified, that is still a far cry from saying humans have every right to murder them and their children.

I mean stop and actually think about what your saying, your pretty much sitting there and telling yourself you would be justified to kill a family and stomping their babies heads in with your boots because they are impolite.

[Cuddlezarro]

It could of course be that despite being an assassin he did not support wiping out an entire settlement of people who live their lives on the run from human persecution and had nothing to do with the curse.

this is pretty much the reason



he doesnt like it when you side with Cullen at the top of the mage tower either and gets pissed off if you let the tevinter slaver at the alienge run off with the elven slaves

[Sarah1281]

and gets pissed off if you let the tevinter slaver at the alienge run off with the elven slaves

That's probably personal because he was a slave.



And I understand why the Dalish are so rude and obnoxious to outsiders but that doesn't mean it's justified or that it helps their cause in the slightest. They should ESPECIALLY not be so awful to the GW who is their only hope of dealing with their persisant werewolf problem and who is there to save everyone from the Blight. Especially so if they aren't even human!

[TheComfyCat]

Sarah1281 wrote...

and gets pissed off if you let the tevinter slaver at the alienge run off with the elven slaves

That's probably personal because he was a slave.

And I understand why the Dalish are so rude and obnoxious to outsiders but that doesn't mean it's justified or that it helps their cause in the slightest. They should ESPECIALLY not be so awful to the GW who is their only hope of dealing with their persisant werewolf problem and who is there to save everyone from the Blight. Especially so if they aren't even human!

Zevran's opinions regarding the PC's decisions seem to be based on a mixture of practicality and his personal experiences, and he also tends to be very compassionate. But he definitely seems to be, as David Gaider has said, amoral.

The Dalish are always defensive when confronting outsiders, no matter what race they are; though they're much easier to get along with if you don't cause trouble (e.g. take their things and break up Cammen/ Gheyna... of course, watching her slap him is too good for me to ever pass up). But their attitude is just a reflection of the fact that most outsiders cause them nothing but trouble. They have no reason to assume that the GW is there to help them, or that the GW will be true to their word.

[Sarah1281]

They have no reason to assume that the GW is there to help them, or that the GW will be true to their word.

Isn't the fact that their sole reason for coming is to call on the ancient treaties but Zathrien won't help until the werewolf problem is dealt with enough of a reason? They can't know that the werewolves are sentient and willing to fight for the GW in exchange for wiping them out, after all.

[TheComfyCat]

They don't know much about the (specific/ individual) circumstances of the Warden. Perhaps the GW will think it's too much trouble to help them, what with the Blight and all, and thus the GW will just leave to find other allies. Without knowing much about the Warden, why would the Dalish necessarily assume that the Warden will complete the tasks once the Warden sees how difficult they are? After all, they have been unable to help themselves so far.

Change isn't easy for anyone, so it makes sense that the Dalish wouldn't be friendly just because you're saying you want to help them. They're surprised and grateful once the Warden really does help them, and assuming the Warden decided to make Zathrian end the curse, the relationship between humans and the Dalish improves as a result. If the Warden proves that outsiders can be worth trusting, the Dalish then change their tune.

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 17 avril 2010 - 04:58 .

[asaiasai]

I never in 14 plays now sided with the wolves the penalty is too high as the Dalish are the only source for elfroot. I have in only one play sided with the elves and killed The Lady but i felt like Michael Vick, and afterwards i needed a shower, and a stiff drink. I did not reload and replay but i was so glad when i finished O with that character as they carry a taint that will not wash away, it is so bad that even as kick ass as she is i still may delete her anyway. I usually force Z to break the curse and that is good enough. I have considered using a money hack buying up about 40 stacks of elf root and selling them to the camp merchant and then killing the Dalish but it is to much trouble as well. It is easier to force Z to break the curse and move on.



Asai

[Aisynia]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

In response to both of you: you really blame them with how utterly hostile the Dalish are?

I have zero sympathy for Dalish.

Ok, seriously? The dalish, who are trying to live by themselves, alone in the forest, are being driven out by crazy humans and you blame the dalish for that? Of course they're going to treat every human as an enemy when they're treated like that!

Both sides need to chill the f### out, but at least the dalish still being bitter is understandable. The humans are just paraniod psychopaths.

Don't be so shortsighted, and don't forget why they lost the Dales in the first place.

[Foune]

The first time I come to the elven camp, I stack with elfroot more than enough to last enough gameplay, then I do the worst possible to make them hate me, steal and get caught. It's a real pleasure wiping those stupid dalish faces of Thedas. Tho sometimes I choose another path, I'm not always a typical renegade, but I do enjoy seeing their camp burn.

[Aisynia]

Sharn01 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

In response to both of you: you really blame them with how utterly hostile the Dalish are?

I have zero sympathy for Dalish.

Your entitled to your opinion of course,  I am sure there where a fair number of people who thought the US was justified in wiping out the last remnants of the Native American tribes.  Even if I did not think the rudeness of the Dalish was justified, that is still a far cry from saying humans have every right to murder them and their children.

I mean stop and actually think about what your saying, your pretty much sitting there and telling yourself you would be justified to kill a family and stomping their babies heads in with your boots because they are impolite.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm sorry you lack the capability to understand.

Also, they are not simply impolite. They are a society driven by bitterness and hatred (Tamlen even admonishes you for not being bitter enough, seriously). I can't abide any society like that, I just can't. It's not a matter of hatred on my part, but just complete disgust.

Also, Zathrian dooms his clan, not anyone else. When you "attack", the first thing that happens is that the Lady and Swiftrunner give him an ultimatum: End the curse, it will heal your people, and completely DISSOLVE any conflict we have with each other.

What does Zathrian choose? Bitterness, hatred, revenge. And I hate to say it, but his feelings, while reprehensible, fit perfectly into exactly what I expect of Dalish society.

Not ONE elf nearby questions him. Not ONE of his followers speaks up and says "Wait, what's this powerful spirit and her band of wolves that you said were mindless beasts talking about?" Not one of them raised an eyebrow, or a hand, or a question. Everything was laid bare right in front of them: Zathrian cursed them, and their hunters were suffering because of his revenge. Obviously they agreed with that line of thinking, and the world will not mourn them.

If you run into some survivors in the forest later, they confront you for killing their clan off. You can persuade them, explaining how they were given a chance, and that Zathrian chose death for everyone rather than compassion and mercy. She gives you a gift and walks off.

Zathrian doomed his people, not the warden, not the Lady. It might be morally grey, it might not be the ideal outcome to the conflict, it might even be ugly, but that's the message the game is sending right there.

Siding with the elves and massacring the Werewolves is just as bad, or worse, as they are victims in this who simply want release, release that won't be granted to them thanks to the bitter, hateful Dalish.

That said, I prefer to have Zathrian break the curse. World is better off without Zathrian, bottom line.

I'm not necessarily promoting the massacre of non-combatants, but I am trying to explain why there are those amongst us who have no sympathy for the Dalish, and who choose to side against them for anything other than achievement hunting.

Modifié par Aisynia, 17 avril 2010 - 11:26 .

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

and gets pissed off if you let the tevinter slaver at the alienge run off with the elven slaves

That's probably personal because he was a slave.

And I understand why the Dalish are so rude and obnoxious to outsiders but that doesn't mean it's justified or that it helps their cause in the slightest. They should ESPECIALLY not be so awful to the GW who is their only hope of dealing with their persisant werewolf problem and who is there to save everyone from the Blight. Especially so if they aren't even human!

Not all the Dalish are asses.  Athras is quite nice and even apologies if the tribe has made you feel unwelcome.  Depending on what convo option you pick he even says "Most assume we are unkind but that isn't so".  I also LIKE Varathorn. I usually bring him the Ironbark and ask for nothing in return.  The Dalish CAN be made to see their views on others are skewed.  Unlike Zathrian who has to be forced into it, the others in the camp can be made to see their perceptions of you just because you are human or dwarf or city elf are wrong.

I never kill the elves. I don't think I will ever get the achievement.  I always opt the 'Zathrien ends the curse" route.  its the best way to resolve it IMO

[sylvanaerie]

Aisynia wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

In response to both of you: you really blame them with how utterly hostile the Dalish are?

I have zero sympathy for Dalish.

Your entitled to your opinion of course,  I am sure there where a fair number of people who thought the US was justified in wiping out the last remnants of the Native American tribes.  Even if I did not think the rudeness of the Dalish was justified, that is still a far cry from saying humans have every right to murder them and their children.

I mean stop and actually think about what your saying, your pretty much sitting there and telling yourself you would be justified to kill a family and stomping their babies heads in with your boots because they are impolite.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm sorry you lack the capability to understand.

Also, they are not simply impolite. They are a society driven by bitterness and hatred (Tamlen even admonishes you for not being bitter enough, seriously). I can't abide any society like that, I just can't. It's not a matter of hatred on my part, but just complete disgust.

Also, Zathrian dooms his clan, not anyone else. When you "attack", the first thing that happens is that the Lady and Swiftrunner give him an ultimatum: End the curse, it will heal your people, and completely DISSOLVE any conflict we have with each other.

What does Zathrian choose? Bitterness, hatred, revenge. And I hate to say it, but his feelings, while reprehensible, fit perfectly into exactly what I expect of Dalish society.

Not ONE elf nearby questions him. Not ONE of his followers speaks up and says "Wait, what's this powerful spirit and her band of wolves that you said were mindless beasts talking about?" Not one of them raised an eyebrow, or a hand, or a question. Everything was laid bare right in front of them: Zathrian cursed them, and their hunters were suffering because of his revenge. Obviously they agreed with that line of thinking, and the world will not mourn them.

If you run into some survivors in the forest later, they confront you for killing their clan off. You can persuade them, explaining how they were given a chance, and that Zathrian chose death for everyone rather than compassion and mercy. She gives you a gift and walks off.

Zathrian doomed his people, not the warden, not the Lady. It might be morally grey, it might not be the ideal outcome to the conflict, it might even be ugly, but that's the message the game is sending right there.

Siding with the elves and massacring the Werewolves is just as bad, or worse, as they are victims in this who simply want release, release that won't be granted to them thanks to the bitter, hateful Dalish.

That said, I prefer to have Zathrian break the curse. World is better off without Zathrian, bottom line.

I'm not necessarily promoting the massacre of non-combatants, but I am trying to explain why there are those amongst us who have no sympathy for the Dalish, and who choose to side against them for anything other than achievement hunting.

Of course the elves not saying anything like WTF about the whole curse stuff is simply game mechanics as the game assumes by that point you mean to kill the elves.  Probably done to make the player think "Okay they deserved it, they never said a word in their defense and Zathrian is an ass anyway".

And a better world without Zathrian? Agreed 100%.  He's lived with his hate too long and its consumed him.  In the end if you choose that option, even he sees it as such, showing he isn't the total ass he is perceived to be at first glance.

[Mlai00]

TotalLamer wrote...
Proud?  Last I saw they were anything but proud of being werewolves... wanted anything but, in fact.

If you actually keep playing after the Wolves take over the Dalish Camp, talk to them.  Talk to your Werewolf ambassador.  There is a clear sense of self-empowerment and pride, now that they've made peace with what they are, and no longer have their history with Zathrian hanging over their heads.

Uhmm...yeah true warden's of the forest with a curse that burns
painfully in your blood and drives most insane.  Yes.  Letting these
creatures stay wolfish is kind. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png

LOL as I said, Wardens of the Forest.
Anyways, once you pass the Turning, you no longer suffer the pain.