256 réponses à ce sujet

[Appolo90]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

!FLAME WAR INTIATED!
!EVACUATE THE PREMISES!

We're actually having a pretty civilized conversation here. So far.

[Busomjack]

How can people make an argument that this is just the free market at work when it is the government which is providing these lunches and the only thing they serve is crap?
That is not capitalism, if anything it's corporate socialism.  I wouldn't be surprised if the government is reluctant to change the rules in fear of pissing off the junk food lobbies.

[ObserverStatus]

Busomjack wrote...

How can people make an argument that this is just the free market at work when it is the government which is providing these lunches and the only thing they serve is crap?
That is not capitalism, if anything it's corporate socialism.  I wouldn't be surprised if the government is reluctant to change the rules in fear of pissing off the junk food lobbies.

It's capitalism, this was all explained in "Super Size Me".  The government contracts companies that serve unhealthy food to do school lunches because they have lower prices than companies that won't give children myocardial infarctions.  If the company charges lower prices, the politicians won't have to raise taxes, and in turn will not be burned in effigy.

Modifié par bobobo878, 15 avril 2010 - 04:55 .

[Loerwyn]

Busomjack wrote...
If you read my post you would know that I did not let parents off the hook.  However, I think the present state in America is so bad that we can no longer reliably depend on parents to provide adaquete nutritional education to their kids.
That is how it really should but but we have an entire generation of adults who know nothing about nutrition.  How can we expect their kids to fare better?
We can't expect kids to learn from their parents when their parents know nothing.

It's called "common sense", something that lacks in this modern world.
I am of the mind that things like fast food should be used as a treat or an occassional meal, y'know, once a month or something. It's not just a debate about nutrition, it's got so many levels to it.
Do the parents know how to cook? Do they have even an ounce of common sense? Were they taught by their parents how/what to eat? Were they taught at school about nutrition themselves? What's their financial status?
You could be here all week. As I said, you cannot put the blame just on the parents. You cannot put the blame just on the education system. And you really cannot put the blame just on food companies.
It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to work out that you need to eat fruit and vegetables and that a McDonalds a day won't do you any good. But it's easier to go to KFC on your way home from work, pick up a ready cooked meal for $10 or whatever it is in the US, take it home and feed the family.
In the UK, at least, Jamie Oliver has had quite some success with improving school meals and increasing awareness of eating "properly". The education system, to the best of my knowledge, sorely lacks in these parts. Yeah, you'll get the rare lesson on it and the occassional leaflet for your parents, but that's it.
Kids should have less time spent filling their heads with numbers and statistics that are of no use and taught the things that matter - Cooking, healthy living, understanding politics and the viewpoints of political parties/whatever you have in the US and so forth. I came out of the education system about a year or two ago and I know jack all about the world outside.

[Busomjack]

bobobo878 wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

How can people make an argument that this is just the free market at work when it is the government which is providing these lunches and the only thing they serve is crap?
That is not capitalism, if anything it's corporate socialism.  I wouldn't be surprised if the government is reluctant to change the rules in fear of pissing off the junk food lobbies.

It's capitalism, this was all explained in "Super Size Me".  The Government contracts companies that serve unhealthy food to do school lunches because they have lower prices than companies that won't give children myocardial infarctions.  If the company charges lower prices, the politicians won't have to raise taxes, and in turn will not be burned in effigy.

When I think capitalism, I think of the free market.  A free market means consumer freedom.  What kind of free market system justifies taking tax payer's money and using it to poison are nation's kids with this dietary trash?

The government wouldn't need to raise taxes to pay for healthier foods if they subsidized farmers who produce healthful foods rather than junk.  Also, it would be a money saving investment in the long run since we'd be spending less on medical expenses.

[Daewan]

Not limited to West Virginia, not original:



http://www.parentdis...mes-from-sheep/



and as far back as 2007:



http://news.sky.com/...200806413569871

[Loerwyn]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

....no offense onlyshallow but paragraphs are also common sense.

I do paragraph it, it's just the crappy forum software.

[ImperialOperative]

Why should I care about West Virginians?



The less of them, the better the world is off.

[ObserverStatus]

Busomjack wrote...
When I think capitalism, I think of the free market.  A free market means consumer freedom.  What kind of free market system justifies taking tax payer's money and using it to poison are nation's kids with this dietary trash?

Ours, apparently.

The government wouldn't need to raise taxes to pay for healthier foods if they subsidized farmers who produce healthful foods rather than junk.  Also, it would be a money saving investment in the long run since we'd be spending less on medical expenses.

Where do you think the money for agriculture subsidies comes from? On the other hand they could stop subsidizing high fructose corn syrup.

[ImperialOperative]

Busomjack wrote...

When I think capitalism, I think of the free market.  A free market means consumer freedom.  What kind of free market system justifies taking tax payer's money and using it to poison are nation's kids with this dietary trash?

The government wouldn't need to raise taxes to pay for healthier foods if they subsidized farmers who produce healthful foods rather than junk.  Also, it would be a money saving investment in the long run since we'd be spending less on medical expenses.

That's why you send your children to privates schools. DURP

You want your kid to get a bad education and bad food and bad teachers?  SEND THEM TO PUBLIC SCHOOL DURP

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 15 avril 2010 - 05:02 .

[Appolo90]

Busomjack wrote...

How can people make an argument that this is just the free market at work when it is the government which is providing these lunches and the only thing they serve is crap?
That is not capitalism, if anything it's corporate socialism.  I wouldn't be surprised if the government is reluctant to change the rules in fear of pissing off the junk food lobbies.

It's probably both the people's faults and the gov'ts depending on who's providing the food. If the gov't is providing then yeah, they are to blame in that case. If it's the parents, then it's people.

The gov't could be doing a lot more to help out, though. Thing is, high fructose corn syrup is an economic crutch. Take that away during an iffy economic climate and things could go to hell.

[Appolo90]

ImperialOperative wrote...

That's why you send your children to privates schools. DURP

You want your kid to get a bad education and bad food and bad teachers?  SEND THEM TO PUBLIC SCHOOL DURP

Yeah, cause everyone can afford private schools. We shouldn't have to be afraid of public schools. They need restructured badly. Throw out the crappy, lazy teachers, kill the teacher union, and hire passionate teachers that WILL NOT GET TENURE. Tenure is the worst idea ever. You can't get fired so why even care about how good of an educator you are?

Modifié par Appolo90, 15 avril 2010 - 05:07 .

[Busomjack]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
If you read my post you would know that I did not let parents off the hook.  However, I think the present state in America is so bad that we can no longer reliably depend on parents to provide adaquete nutritional education to their kids.
That is how it really should but but we have an entire generation of adults who know nothing about nutrition.  How can we expect their kids to fare better?
We can't expect kids to learn from their parents when their parents know nothing.

It's called "common sense", something that lacks in this modern world.
I am of the mind that things like fast food should be used as a treat or an occassional meal, y'know, once a month or something. It's not just a debate about nutrition, it's got so many levels to it.
Do the parents know how to cook? Do they have even an ounce of common sense? Were they taught by their parents how/what to eat? Were they taught at school about nutrition themselves? What's their financial status?
You could be here all week. As I said, you cannot put the blame just on the parents. You cannot put the blame just on the education system. And you really cannot put the blame just on food companies.
It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to work out that you need to eat fruit and vegetables and that a McDonalds a day won't do you any good. But it's easier to go to KFC on your way home from work, pick up a ready cooked meal for $10 or whatever it is in the US, take it home and feed the family.
In the UK, at least, Jamie Oliver has had quite some success with improving school meals and increasing awareness of eating "properly". The education system, to the best of my knowledge, sorely lacks in these parts. Yeah, you'll get the rare lesson on it and the occassional leaflet for your parents, but that's it.
Kids should have less time spent filling their heads with numbers and statistics that are of no use and taught the things that matter - Cooking, healthy living, understanding politics and the viewpoints of political parties/whatever you have in the US and so forth. I came out of the education system about a year or two ago and I know jack all about the world outside.

For your first point which seems to imply that everything is ok in moderation.  Fair enough, let me put into context what happens in the show since you didn't see the whole episode.  These kids are eating pizza for breakfast, and pizza/chicken nuggets for lunch along with french fries every school day.  That is not moderation, it is excess and being that these are kids we're priming their tastebuds to prefer junk over healthier foods.
Kids will eat healthy foods if there is nothing else available.  I know, my mother only fed me organic foods and I am an exceptional example of the human species.

Next, to answer your string of questions.  The answer is NO to all of the above.  The families who are raising these kids are idiots but the kids are innocent and deserve a chance to transcend the stupidity of the one's who brought them into this world.  We can't give them that chance by relying on moron parents to provide adaquete nutritional education.
As for their financial statis, Huntington West Virignia is not that poor for West Virginia.  It's not wealthy but it's not nearly as bad as some cities like Detroit.  I sympathize with the people who don't have access to healthy foods due to low income but that is even more of a reason why school should provide healthy lunches to kids.

So I can't blame the parents, the food companies(which I don't really), or the education system.  That seems to narrow it down to the kids.  Blaming 6 year olds for poor diet habits when they're not even in an environment where they have access to healthy foods or proper nutritional education is pretty absurd. 
As for your point about how it's easier to east fast food.  No kidding, but why promote consumer lazyness?  Isn't working harder to achieve what is better the American way?  It's not as if the nation wasn't funcitioning before fast food was commercially availble.  Keep in mind that this whole fast food phenomenon is only about 50 years old.

[Busomjack]

bobobo878 wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
When I think capitalism, I think of the free market.  A free market means consumer freedom.  What kind of free market system justifies taking tax payer's money and using it to poison are nation's kids with this dietary trash?

Ours, apparently.

The government wouldn't need to raise taxes to pay for healthier foods if they subsidized farmers who produce healthful foods rather than junk.  Also, it would be a money saving investment in the long run since we'd be spending less on medical expenses.

Where do you think the money for agriculture subsidies comes from? On the other hand they could stop subsidizing high fructose corn syrup.

I know where it comes from but the fact that taxpayer money is spent on junk food is something that should make every taxpayer outraged.  I agree, corn subsidies need to end.

[Appolo90]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

Killing teacher unions are sure to set examples for kids

You seem too young or naive to understand why unions are such a bad, bad thing so I won't type a wall of text explaining the entire reason unions need to be killed. You'll see eventually.

Modifié par Appolo90, 15 avril 2010 - 05:14 .

[Appolo90]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

Appolo90 wrote...

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

Killing teacher unions are sure to set examples for kids

You seem too young or naive to understand why unions are such a bad, bad thing so I want type a wall of text explaining the entire reason unions need to be killed.

I was joking but seriously killing is not a good idea...
Im 27 and naiviety is not jokes.

Oh, no no no. You misunderstood me. I should have worded that differently.

I meant disbanding the union, not literally killing the union people. That would be mass murder.

[Sloth Of Doom]

You know Busomjack, it would be a lot easier to agree with you if you didn't spew pompous self-aggrandizing verbal masturbation every time you opened your mouth. Just saying.



Although i don;t particularity like Jamie Oliver, nor am I American, I find the show rather interesting. I like to pick n Americans (it is just so easy!) but the truth is that things like this server as cautionary tales for the rest of the world. What absolutely blows my mind is that the parents, teachers and other school staff don't see any problems in what they are doing. The whole "see no evil" act has terrifying implications.