123 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

It was really only difference in presentation. ME 1 allowed you to meander around a bit while ME 2 tries to bring up the pace. Also story wise Linear almost always works better, and I feel that that is the case with ME 2 over ME 1 because ME 1 you often are just picking random missions that end with random results until you get to Virmire, which hopefully you do last then Virmire-Ilos and Citadel is where the linearity of the plot is realized and the game takes off.



Also the Council itself did not add much to the story. No matter what you did it was "TURIAN DISAGREES, ASARI GOT NO OPINION, SALARIAN AGREES". Also Anderson after the beginning of the game doesn't have a whole lot of input into the plot.



Plus the non-linearity was a detriment if you did the missions in the wrong order. For instance if you do Liara's recruitment last the game doesn't really make much sense from a story perspective. Sure she is relevant to the plot, however this is not at all made clear if you just play the game. In that scenario you have the Cipher, both Beacon's, the Relay coordinates then for some reason you need to get a Prothean expert.

[tonnactus]

lordgeryon wrote...

My hopes for ME3:

Shepard no longer works for anyone. No Alliance, Council, or Cerberus leash. S/he is working solely on their own merits, doing things as they see fit. Sure, that robs them of some support, but it also gives them freedom to operate without regard to jurisdiction or allegiances.
.

Shepardt still need some cash.But i guess Jacks dream finally becomes true.Shepardt go pirating bad guys with the normandy.

[Onyx Jaguar]

tonnactus wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
 I like the recruitment missions and more character driven story in ME2.

Oh yes, the recruitment missions.Kill dozen of mercs on the way to speak with the people you want to recruit.Just great.Otherwise,like with kazumi and zaeed,it makes a lot more sense.

Gameplay content in a video game is a very bad idea. 

[tonnactus]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Gameplay content in a video game is a very bad idea. 

You not understand the post.The order is important.First,speak with the character.Then he/she tell you to do some things i f you want those people on your team.This made sense.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 avril 2010 - 10:56 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

tonnactus wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Gameplay content in a video game is a very bad idea. 

You not understand the post.The order is important.First,speak with the character.Then he/she tell you to do some things i f you want those people on your team.This made sense.

So you want every mission to be the same as Mordin's?

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't see how it makes sense. That doesn't make sense to me. You are given information and you are sent out to find them. Some you run into early on some you run into in the middle of a bad situation.

[tonnactus]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Gameplay content in a video game is a very bad idea. 

You not understand the post.The order is important.First,speak with the character.Then he/she tell you to do some things i f you want those people on your team.This made sense.

So you want every mission to be the same as Mordin's?

You still fight dozen of mercs before meeting mordin.

In samaras mission and mordins this at least make some sense.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 avril 2010 - 11:23 .

[Halmiriliath]

tonnactus wrote...

Oh yes, the recruitment missions.Kill dozen of mercs on the way to speak with the people you want to recruit.Just great.Otherwise,like with kazumi and zaeed,it makes a lot more sense.

I'm curious as to why you seem so put out with this. I would have only been irritated by them if the enemies seemed to be there for no good reason other than to provide combat, making it contrived. Personally, I felt that the reasons given for there to be mercenaries or other enemies in the way of the character you were aiming for were somewhat justified. A few examples: Archangel, where you take down the freelancers hired by the mercenary groups that are baying for his blood, finding yourself in a situation where you have to fight your way out; Mordin, where you fight against Blue Suns and Blood Pack mercenaries that are fighting over territory in the plague zone, where Mordin has set up a clinic; Jack, where the prison ship is run by the Blue Suns, who attempt to imprison you for their own profit; Thane, where his target has hired Eclipse mercenaries out of fear for her life; and Tali, where she is investigating a planet in Geth-controlled space.   

Modifié par Halmiriliath, 17 avril 2010 - 01:18 .

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

I was slightly peeved that my infiltrator couldn't do the ventilation shaft. I even had "improved hacking" and I'm sure that N7 armor can stand up to a lot. That would have been pretty interesting... rather than Shepard having to rush to keep the engineer team-mate alive it would be the opposite; the player trying to hack through these doors, avoid hazards, and then endure the nerve-wracking panic as they are forced to put their fate in their team-mate's hands. Succeeding or failing would of-course depend upon loyalty... if you have enough loyal squad mates they will get to the end and open the valve for you in time. I suppose that having Shepard die there would feel like a kick in the balls... but that'd be your fault for rushing off early with a bad team. Otherwise perhaps regardless Shepard would survive (if a little cooked), but along the way some of your team-mates would die.

Might have been kind of interesting.  I thought the same thing about the biotic barrier playing as my adept, but in the end I just chalk it up to Shep needing to command and someone else needing to fill that role.  

Would have been nice if we had some idea as to why those roles were needed before we got to the Collector Base.  I guess TIM thinks recon is for pansies.  

[smudboy]

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

I was slightly peeved that my infiltrator couldn't do the ventilation shaft. I even had "improved hacking" and I'm sure that N7 armor can stand up to a lot. That would have been pretty interesting... rather than Shepard having to rush to keep the engineer team-mate alive it would be the opposite; the player trying to hack through these doors, avoid hazards, and then endure the nerve-wracking panic as they are forced to put their fate in their team-mate's hands. Succeeding or failing would of-course depend upon loyalty... if you have enough loyal squad mates they will get to the end and open the valve for you in time. I suppose that having Shepard die there would feel like a kick in the balls... but that'd be your fault for rushing off early with a bad team. Otherwise perhaps regardless Shepard would survive (if a little cooked), but along the way some of your team-mates would die.

Might have been kind of interesting.  I thought the same thing about the biotic barrier playing as my adept, but in the end I just chalk it up to Shep needing to command and someone else needing to fill that role.  

Would have been nice if we had some idea as to why those roles were needed before we got to the Collector Base.  I guess TIM thinks recon is for pansies.  

Relevant intel?  On the project he's been focusing on for the past two years?  On the goal everyone still knows nothing about?  As an information broker?  I mean, resurrection is one thing, but c'mon.  He can't predict the future.

Dammit man, he's got dossiers!  Get that plot moving.  Who cares about ever using or upgrading the genius scientists countermeasure for that specific purpose?  We need a Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles game play mechanic.

[77boy84]

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

I was slightly peeved that my infiltrator couldn't do the ventilation shaft. I even had "improved hacking" and I'm sure that N7 armor can stand up to a lot. That would have been pretty interesting... rather than Shepard having to rush to keep the engineer team-mate alive it would be the opposite; the player trying to hack through these doors, avoid hazards, and then endure the nerve-wracking panic as they are forced to put their fate in their team-mate's hands. Succeeding or failing would of-course depend upon loyalty... if you have enough loyal squad mates they will get to the end and open the valve for you in time. I suppose that having Shepard die there would feel like a kick in the balls... but that'd be your fault for rushing off early with a bad team. Otherwise perhaps regardless Shepard would survive (if a little cooked), but along the way some of your team-mates would die.

Might have been kind of interesting.  I thought the same thing about the biotic barrier playing as my adept, but in the end I just chalk it up to Shep needing to command and someone else needing to fill that role.  

Would have been nice if we had some idea as to why those roles were needed before we got to the Collector Base.  I guess TIM thinks recon is for pansies.  

How could he do recon on the collector base? Did you miss the whole "The normandy is the only ship that can get through the omega relay intact because it has the reaper IFF built into it" bit? That was kind of important.

[JMA22TB]

77boy84 wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

I was slightly peeved that my infiltrator couldn't do the ventilation shaft. I even had "improved hacking" and I'm sure that N7 armor can stand up to a lot. That would have been pretty interesting... rather than Shepard having to rush to keep the engineer team-mate alive it would be the opposite; the player trying to hack through these doors, avoid hazards, and then endure the nerve-wracking panic as they are forced to put their fate in their team-mate's hands. Succeeding or failing would of-course depend upon loyalty... if you have enough loyal squad mates they will get to the end and open the valve for you in time. I suppose that having Shepard die there would feel like a kick in the balls... but that'd be your fault for rushing off early with a bad team. Otherwise perhaps regardless Shepard would survive (if a little cooked), but along the way some of your team-mates would die.

Might have been kind of interesting.  I thought the same thing about the biotic barrier playing as my adept, but in the end I just chalk it up to Shep needing to command and someone else needing to fill that role.  

Would have been nice if we had some idea as to why those roles were needed before we got to the Collector Base.  I guess TIM thinks recon is for pansies.  

How could he do recon on the collector base? Did you miss the whole "The normandy is the only ship that can get through the omega relay intact because it has the reaper IFF built into it" bit? That was kind of important.

Easy. Have EDI send him data about applying the IFF (which he did if you watch the TIM tells Joker to bring his ship back cutscene at the end of the game if you let Shepard die, ships are closing in on the base if you save it). While it's not prudent to send people to their death to get an idea of what's in there, wouldn't that be smarter than sending your two year, 17120320987 billion credit investment of the Normandy, Shepard, and the team to find out first? 

Maybe they'd even catch the idea that it's so poorly defended so maybe something's wrong...

Find out more here

[lordgeryon]

tonnactus wrote...

lordgeryon wrote...

My hopes for ME3:

Shepard no longer works for anyone. No Alliance, Council, or Cerberus leash. S/he is working solely on their own merits, doing things as they see fit. Sure, that robs them of some support, but it also gives them freedom to operate without regard to jurisdiction or allegiances.
.

Shepardt still need some cash.But i guess Jacks dream finally becomes true.Shepardt go pirating bad guys with the normandy.

Not quite what I had in mind, although it is a viable element. Merc groups, slavers, pirates... all these people have ships, resources, and most likely have bounties too. Salvage would be a good way to get lots of credits. Also, detailed scanner surveys of Terminus planets could be sold to mining corporations for a good deal of creds.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

tonnactus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


Hmm, this I have to disagree with. TIM leading me around did not feel any different from the Council in the first game. It all came down to "Event x is happening here. We need you to do this, this, and this." Shepard: "Ok." Rinse and repeat.

Is this a joke,or what???

Mass Effect /Captain Anderson: You are a spectre know.You dont owe us accountability.

Noveria first,or therum,or Ferros,vice versa. Shepardt had a lot of freedom.And wasnt a dumb puppet of the illusive man.

He was a puppet of the Council. All this 'perceived freedom' you have is just an illusion. The only difference in the order in which the game plays out is this:

Mass Effect 1: Anderson/Udina hand out all your investigation assignments out at once, excluding Virmire which you receive from the Council.

Mass Effect 2: TIM hands out your assignments one at a time. You get about 4 total missions, which is about the same as the Council from the first game.

He also tells you that you have control over how the operation is run. But this doesn't make it any less true that Shepard is a puppet on a string whether it's Cerberus, the Council, or the Alliance.

[JMA22TB]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


Hmm, this I have to disagree with. TIM leading me around did not feel any different from the Council in the first game. It all came down to "Event x is happening here. We need you to do this, this, and this." Shepard: "Ok." Rinse and repeat.

Is this a joke,or what???

Mass Effect /Captain Anderson: You are a spectre know.You dont owe us accountability.

Noveria first,or therum,or Ferros,vice versa. Shepardt had a lot of freedom.And wasnt a dumb puppet of the illusive man.

He was a puppet of the Council. All this 'perceived freedom' you have is just an illusion. The only difference in the order in which the game plays out is this:

Mass Effect 1: Anderson/Udina hand out all your investigation assignments out at once, excluding Virmire which you receive from the Council.

Mass Effect 2: TIM hands out your assignments one at a time. You get about 4 total missions, which is about the same as the Council from the first game.

He also tells you that you have control over how the operation is run. But this doesn't make it any less true that Shepard is a puppet on a string whether it's Cerberus, the Council, or the Alliance.

This. The heroes are always being passively manipulated by politicians, basic storytelling

[tonnactus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


He was a puppet of the Council. All this 'perceived freedom' you have is just an illusion. The only difference in the order in which the game plays out is this:

Mass Effect 1: Anderson/Udina hand out all your investigation assignments out at once, excluding Virmire which you receive from the Council.

Yes.And i did those assignments in any order i want.Unlike Mass Effect 2. I could do as much side missions i want without a "timer "that force me on the collector ship.That wasnt a illusion of freedom,that was as much freedom a game could give me.Only exception was that i coulnt murder everyone like in Fallout or Oblivion.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 avril 2010 - 01:20 .

[tonnactus]

Halmiriliath wrote...
Thane, where his target has hired Eclipse mercenaries out of fear for her life;

A good example.Why i cant contact a assasin like all other of his customers did it? This is just dumb,like the whole dialog with nassana dantius.Oh,she is paranoid,lol. Shepardt killed all her protectors, but only to met an assasin.Better would be,if shepardt knew her,was to contact her and stop the killer.But then he couldnt have his cool entrace i guess.
A lot of reasons for fighting enemies were just artificial and this was an example for that.
Sheaprdt is such an idiot in this game,it isnt funny.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

tonnactus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


He was a puppet of the Council. All this 'perceived freedom' you have is just an illusion. The only difference in the order in which the game plays out is this:

Mass Effect 1: Anderson/Udina hand out all your investigation assignments out at once, excluding Virmire which you receive from the Council.

Yes.And i did those assignments in any order i want.Unlike Mass Effect 2. I could do as much side missions i want without a "timer "that force me on the collector ship.That wasnt a illusion of freedom,that was as much freedom a game could give me.Only exception was that i coulnt murder everyone like in Fallout or Oblivion.

You could recruit your squad members in any order you want. I'd say that's pretty equivalent. You also don't have to speak with Illusive Man immediately; you are free to receieve his transmissions whenever you choose. You are also forgetting how non-existent any timers were in Mass Effect 1, which should come at the expense of freedom. You find out a Salarian team was attacked by Saren on Virmire. You can do the mission in one, two, three days, however many you want, and they will still be waiting for you on Virmire. To me, that's free will to the point of stupidity. Either, I should have been forced to Virmire then, or some consequence should have been dealt for waiting.

But if the only 'difference' between the two games is timing, I'd say that's extremely minor. Like it or not, accept it or not, you are TIM's dog. You are the Council's dog. You are the Alliance's dog. This has not changed once throughout the entire series; you are at every moment taking orders from someone. The Council actually grounded the Normandy after Virmire, to illustrate my point. They even make the point to tell you that you "answer to them". And even then, it was not Shepard who broke out of the Citadel, it was Anderson who had to recommend the idea and procedure. Again all this purported 'free will' you have is an illusion.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 19 avril 2010 - 01:33 .

[glacier1701]

tonnactus wrote...

Halmiriliath wrote...
Thane, where his target has hired Eclipse mercenaries out of fear for her life;

A good example.Why i cant contact a assasin like all other of his customers did it? This is just dumb,like the whole dialog with nassana dantius.Oh,she is paranoid,lol. Shepardt killed all her protectors, but only to met an assasin.Better would be,if shepardt knew her,was to contact her and stop the killer.But then he couldnt have his cool entrace i guess.
A lot of reasons for fighting enemies were just artificial and this was an example for that.
Sheaprdt is such an idiot in this game,it isnt funny.

If you were on the old boards when we first saw this preview of Thane BioWare took a lot of heat for the way they did this. Basically we were told to go away (not in those terms mind you but thats what it amounted to). That whole sequence makes NO SENSE if you played ME1 and did so in a way that a majority of players did which basically puts you on GOOD TERMS with Nassana. So why couldnt I just call her up and talk to her?

[tonnactus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
You are the Council's dog.

No i dont even have to talk with them after getting a spectre until the end.

You are the Alliance's dog.

No.I dont have to do the geth incursions or find the nuclear bomb.

In my playthoughs.the normandy could also be grounded after noveria or ferros.Or therum.And tell me how to get tali or samara before i do horizon.

Its amusing,really,that people there disagree that shepardt had more freedom in the first game then the seond.
Colonies could be big,so the collectors would need an unknown time to get all the colonists,so the player has all time and freedom he wants.This should be the case for roleplaying games.Otherwise i could play shooters.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 avril 2010 - 02:04 .

[tonnactus]

glacier1701 wrote...


If you were on the old boards when we first saw this preview of Thane BioWare took a lot of heat for the way they did this. Basically we were told to go away (not in those terms mind you but thats what it amounted to). That whole sequence makes NO SENSE if you played ME1 and did so in a way that a majority of players did which basically puts you on GOOD TERMS with Nassana. So why couldnt I just call her up and talk to her?

I was on the old boards and was so much dissapointed after playing the game the first time.Yes,our decissions matter...

[BaladasDemnevanni]

tonnactus wrote...

No i dont even have to talk with them after getting a spectre until the end.

Last I checked, they made you a Spectre. They have the ability to revoke your Spectre status. They grounded your vessel. They handed out your assignments. You are their dog.

No.I dont have to do the geth incursions or find the nuclear bomb.

In my playthoughs.the normandy could also be grounded after noveria or ferros.Or therum.And tell me how to get tali or samara before i do horizon.

That's wonderful. And in my play throughs, I chose to wait for a while after the Reaper IFF and found out half my crew died as a consequence. But you're argument seems to be "Hey! I can do Noveria last guys! So much freedom!!!!" That's again wonderful.

Fact: if you want freedom, go play a sand box. That's the best you're going to get. RPGs restrict freedom too in order to create progression.

Its amusing,really,that people there disagree that shepardt had more freedom in the first game then the seond.
Colonies could be big,so the collectors would need an unknown time to get all the colonists,so the player has all time and freedom he wants.This should be the case for roleplaying games.Otherwise i could play shooters.

Collectors are known for being quick and for being efficient. This is why they have not been caught in the task before. You are finally given a chance to catch them in the act. Simple, really. Makes more sense than how I can wait a few days after receiving Virmire only to have it play out...the exact same way.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 19 avril 2010 - 02:49 .

[tonnactus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Fact: if you want freedom, go play a sand box.

I played Mass Effect and have the freedom.I played Oblivion and have it too.
Its the same for fallout.
Mass Effect 2 is just a downgrade from Mass Effect to please the shooter crowd so they dont get lost in the game.