185 réponses à ce sujet

[Carmen_Willow]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morrigan also tells us how much she loves us, in her own way. The fact she is going crazy about it (when she is normally oblivious to anything else) shows how much she does love us.  Not to mention the ring. The One Ring to break all hearts and in desperation bind them!

The Alistair romance can end tragically (and can end fairly happily), but it will never be like the Morrigan romance in its tragic denouement. Hence why the Morrigan romance is superior.
That and because Morrigan has bewbs and Alistair doesn't.

I must disagree. Being a woman, when Alistair broke up with me on my first playthrough, I was so heartbroken that I chose to die (they didn't have SSRI's back then) rather than see him die.  On another playthrough, when he left the Order after I allowed Loghain to live, I was devastated. Even when you talk him into the dark gift and marry him and all the rest, the taint is still hanging over you both.

But I do agree that Morrigan's romance is unique...and great writing.

[AlanC9]

Serissia wrote...

I don't even understand how people get such hideous endings on their first play through.

Well, depends on your definition of hideous. Let's say you've done the typical thing at the Landsmeet. You get to the DR, and for whatever reason you don't want to do it. Leaving out wishful thinking about Riordan, this leaves you with two choices at the very end. Both of those can kind of suck for your character. You get to pick which one sucks least. I went US on my first playthrough that way.

Thing is, I thought that was a good ending.

[Tinnic]

Ultimate Sacrifice is the noble, heroic ending. But it does mean you and your character must be ready to let it go. I found it more logical to do Ultimate Sacrifice on my Dalish Elf then on my Mage Elf.

With my Dalish Elf, she was quite literally living on borrowed time. She was "corrupted" and if she hadn't joined the grey wardens she would have died. I also imagined that she had survivors guilt over Tamlin but all in all, I didn't think she would put short term thinking over long term consequences and I felt that the Dark Ritual would give most people who think long term pause. So while she had a lot to live for (like Zevran). I felt that she was the kind of person who would leave Alistair at the gates and walk into Denerim knowing fully that she was most likely not going to return. Only selfish think she did was take Zevran with her to face the Archdemon and so subjected him to mental torture of seeing another woman he had feelings for die before his very eyes. All because she wanted to have him close to her until the end.

My mage on the other hand, while even more goodie, goodie then my Dalish rogue (didn't do favour's for interested parties, didn't left the crows, put Harrowmont on the throne just because he was the nice guy etc), I felt clung to life more. Sure she probably was going to be executed for helping Jowen but it wasn't a done deal yet. She could have talk her way out of it. She could have escaped (Anders did it). Afterall, she herself was not a bloodmage and didn't know Jowen was a bloodmage. Besides which, I felt that she would trust Morrigan more - as a fellow mage, and would find the idea of saving the essence of an old god more appealing and interesting. So she did the dark ritual.

So really, as an RPG, the RP part can dictate which ending you choose. Sacrificing yourself is always the noble, heroic thing to do. But not everybody can walk calmly to their death, let alone fight tooth and nail to get to and fell a corrupted dragon. Knowing full well that the success of her mission means the end of her life.

Modifié par Tinnic, 21 avril 2010 - 09:00 .

[BomimoDK]

Tinnic wrote...

Ultimate Sacrifice is a the good ending. But it does mean you and your character must be ready to let it go. I found it more logical to do Ultimate Sacrifice on my Dalish Elf then on my Mage Elf. With my Dalish Elf, she was quite literally living on borrowed time. She was "corrupted" and if she hadn't joined the grey wardens she would have died. I also imagined that she had survivors guilt over Tamlin but all in all, I didn't think she would put short term thinking over long term consequences and I felt that the Dark Ritual would give most people who think long term pause. So while she had a lot to live for (like Zevran). I felt that she was the kind of person who would leave Alistair at the gates and walk into Denerim knowing fully that she was most likely not going to return. Only selfish think she did was take Zevran with her to face the Archdemon and so subjected him to mental torture of seeing another woman he had feelings for die before his very eyes. All because she wanted to have him close to her until the end.

My mage on the other hand, while even more goodie, goodie then my Dalish rogue (didn't do favour's for interested parties, didn't left the crows, put Harrowmont on the throne just because he was the nice guy etc), I felt clung to life more. Sure she probably was going to be executed for helping Jowen but it wasn't a done deal yet. She could have talk her way out of it. She could have escaped (Anders did it). Afterall, she herself was not a bloodmage and didn't know Jowen was a bloodmage. Besides which, I felt that she would trust Morrigan more - as a fellow mage, and would find the idea of saving the essence of an old god more appealing and interesting. So she did the dark ritual.

So really, as an RPG, the RP part can dictate which ending you choose. Sacrificing yourself is always the noble, heroic thing to do. But not everybody can walk calmly to their deaths.

i can't see the big bother with "OMG ULTIMATE SACRIFICE ENDING IS NOW BROKE!" no, it's not. you'd have to be daft not to relize that this is where the Orlesian warden comes in. i think Bioware should have made it so that when a dead warden is imported, the decisions will be canon, but we will see the results from the Orlesian wardens eyes. that way the canon is not broken and you see the result of your choices. i'd be satisfied by this and it makes more sense overall.

[Xandurpein]

Tinnic wrote...

So really, as an RPG, the RP part can dictate which ending you choose. Sacrificing yourself is always the noble, heroic thing to do. But not everybody can walk calmly to their death, let alone fight tooth and nail to get to and fell a corrupted dragon. Knowing full well that the success of her mission means the end of her life.

To me the final choice has everything to do with who is up on Fort Drakon with me if I didn't do DR. If it is Alistair I end up feeling a total jerk if I let him kill the Archdemon. If it's Loghain I really think I'm just doing him a favor.

[Emerald Melios]

LadyDamodred wrote...

soignee wrote...

I feel the same way! Come on, people- tragedy! It's part of the romance genre! Othello, Anna Karenina, Romeo and Juliet, Wuthering Heights... etc and so forth.

And I know some alistair fangirls will disagree with me, but the I Will Do My Duty overtones in the Alistair romance is similar to Morrigan's romance too.

Why would we disagree?  I, in fact, mentioned that before.  There's no perfect romance with either of them.  The Alistair romance can be just as awful, maybe even more so because Alistair has told you how much he loves you and wants to be with you.  Morrigan, at least, warns you about what's going to happen.

This is why I go with the Leliana romance. If you want a happy ending, you should hook up with the bisexual rogues.

Modifié par Emerald Melios, 23 avril 2010 - 01:15 .

[mopotter]

elemme wrote...




Hi all,  I recently finished DAO and was so dissappointed with the ending I contacted BioWare about it.  I was directed to the forums from there.   For Completeness here is my letter and BioWare response I hopes that it reaches the correct person or persons.

Eric Lemme

Subject
To whom it may concern, I have played Mass Effect and Mass Effect II in each ...Discussion Thread

Response (Ricky)
04/14/2010 02:48 PM
Hi Eric,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts.

I am really sorry for the inconvenience caused to you and for the delay in processing your request. The issue you are facing looks to be related to the gameplay mechanics and not exactly an issue with the game. I would suggest that you check our forums for assistance regarding this. You can post your issue there and our developers would also be able to take a look at it.

Our forums can be found at : -

http://social.bioware.com

If there is anything else we can help you with please let us know.

Thank you,

Ricky
Dragon Age of Origins Customer Support

Customer
04/14/2010 01:02 PM
To whom it may concern,
I have played Mass Effect and Mass Effect II in each case I finished the game thinking "Wow, Best game ever", because of my experience with these games I bought and played Dragon Age Origins. I want to tell you that your ending to DAO flat out sucks. For my story Alister betrays me with a hissy fit. My love interest leaves me. I die. I suppose it could have been worse and you could have killed my dog. I feel that my actions during the game had no impact on the actions of these characters which I believe is wrong. I know you have a right to make the storyline go anyway you want, but I believe I have the right to have the ability to have the kind of ending I want. Needless to say I will not be purchasing anything else from Dragon Age anytime in the near future and I will certainly look very closely at anything outside of Mass Effect before even thinking about purchasing it. Frankly if I want to invest time in tragedy I will watch the news.

Sincerely, Eric Lemme

I agree.  I enjoyed DA until the end.  Even had it for the xbox 360 and pc because my husband and I were both playing it.    I've written my first blog about it.  social.bioware.com/7644/blog/4159/

I've still got every BioWare game I've ever played from BG to ME2 and I replay them all.  --  Until DA.  I've traded in the 360 copy and I'm not playing the pc version until someone comes up with a mod to fix the ending.   And the worst thing is, I do not recemmend it to anyone who has asked how I liked it,  without stipulating that for one of the romance options, in order to survive you have to send your LI to another woman.

I would not have minded if this was one, possible ending but  it was the only ending where you and Alistair could survive without him either having sex with the witch, marrying someone else or leaving in a huff, with 5 different character backgrounds there should have been one possible ending where Logain joins and Alistair stays with his LI.  On my own I came up with 2 plausable ideas and I know the writers at BioWare are far more talented than I am.   

I also will certainly pre-order ME3 as soon as it's available, but other than that I'll be waiting till the game is out and I can find out what the story involves beofre I purchase anything in the future.  It makes me sad.  An era of trust is gone.      BioWare was my rock.  My one dependable game company where I could be sure of finding a good story, characters I cared about and a variety of endings, but always at least one that made me feel good. 

[mopotter]

Xetirox wrote...

Allow me to play you a most beautiful song on my violin of my own composition. I call it "How Much We All Care."

Well some of us do care.    Life isn't fair.  I want a vido game that helps to forget that.  DA isn't it, and I've lost the sense of trust I had with BW.  I'm sure they will have other games I'll enjoy, but I'll be far more cautious about picking up anything that comes out in the future.  On the good side, games get cheeper after they have been out so maybe I'll save some money.

[Xetirox]

You're trying to forget that life isn't fair in a video game where you can start off as someone either at the top of the social ladder, or as an impoverished barely-second-class citizen?



Here, let me play my violin in your direction. No, no need for tips, it's entirely for the art.

[Surango]

Now see, that's what I don't get. You're told early on you die young, and the whole story kind of builds up to only gray wardens can stop the blight. What did you think that meant? After the first few times that was said early in the game it clicked for me: "Yep, someone's going to die."

[Allattar1]

I also dont get the issue with, "but wheres my happy ending".



You can have it, you just have to sacrifice something, yourself, Alistair, Loghain or submit to Morrigans wishes.

I still see the sacrifice as the noble ending though, yes its part tragedy but thats the whole point of the game.



This is a story that twists and turns, consequences of your actions.

To those who say your using this to escape, what part of "dark fantasy" was difficult to accept?

Personally I would see anything that allowed you an escape without either the DR or sacrificing a Warden to the Archdemon as a massive cop out and would destroy the whole tale of the game.



I would even see Riordan speaking up earlier as a massive cop out as well. Just think if Riordan had told you earlier a Warden had to die, you could have persuaded Alistair to let Loghain live to make the final sacrifice, to allow Loghain to still die, keeping Alistair, and keeping him happy...



No becuase thats not the way it plays out, its too nice then. There are games that do allow that. I personally hope that Bioware doesn't take this as criticism and in further games of this series attempt to accomodate such endings as a please all. Becuase those disneyfy the experience, and as far as I feel dilutes the story and makes things just blew, or taste like ash.

[sylvanaerie]

Having played both US and DR endings I actually feel as if the DR is a cheat/cop out. Yes you have the angst of (One last night with the woman you love who is taking your child and hitting the road after) or (the angst of sending the man you (possibly) love to another woman). And from what I understand Loghain also begs you not to have him do this, I think he REALLY wants to die fighting the AD. Not sure how those who don't care about Alistair or Morrigan feel so I can't speak for them but for me it felt pretty low on the angst pole.
US was FAR more dramatic and emotionally involving (those final speeches at the gate knowing this was the last time you will see the companions left behind) and then the battle to the top of the fort to slay the dragon and save Ferelden.
It all depends on what you consider a "Bad" ending. None of mine I did (Except the WC. That really pissed me off. King to be dies and everyone throws a freaking party.) But even then I acknowledge it was MY choices that led to that one. I certainly don't blame anyone else for them, I made them.
I certainly wouldn't write a letter to the makers complaining that my choices in the game caused me to have a boohoo moment. Get over it and play a different game or play through again and don't make those choices. There ARE ways to find a happy ending but the game is not responsible for your enjoyment. YOU have to make that yourself. Personally I found that aspect of "Seizing destiny by your own hands" to be VERY positive and empowering for me.
My Cousland boy got the girl (Leliana), saved the city, killed the dragon, put Alistair and Anora on the throne for a great ending for Ferelden so everyone was happy at the end (except maybe Loghain who died at the Landsmeet but he was dead so he didn't count). Even Morrigan who got her godbaby. I don't know what the ramifications are of that, no one does yet. And if in that reality I never play Roland's story again then he DID get a happy ending. He even got his own Terynir.
As Cailan would say *Shakes head* "Glorious!"

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 23 avril 2010 - 10:34 .

[MDarwin]

Surango wrote...

Now see, that's what I don't get. You're told early on you die young, and the whole story kind of builds up to only gray wardens can stop the blight. What did you think that meant? After the first few times that was said early in the game it clicked for me: "Yep, someone's going to die."

Wow! Your a witty one! A witty one with huge choclate lips I assume?

[mopotter]

Xetirox wrote...

You're trying to forget that life isn't fair in a video game where you can start off as someone either at the top of the social ladder, or as an impoverished barely-second-class citizen?

Here, let me play my violin in your direction. No, no need for tips, it's entirely for the art.

Difference is I pay for the video game and if it's a company I've never tried out I check out everything about the game before buying it.  I don't want to spend 30 - 40 or 50 hours of my life getting to know a character and then not have any chance for a reasonably good (yes sappy romantic love survives all odds) ending.   Not every ending, I don't care if some or most  of them are depressing just ONE out of all the endings. 

There are a few companies I trust  and BioWare was at the top of the list.  It has always been a company I can pre-order paying whatever the cost, with confidence that at least one ending would be satisfying on all counts.  One may have me sacrifice my LI in order to save the rest of my team (Kaidain as a LI died and Ash as a LI died in some of my ME games but in other games they didn't). 

DA there was no choice.  If Alistair and my character are to survive he has to have sex with Morrigan.  (I like Morrigan she was always my characters friend).  But the fact that there was no other option brought curse words to my brain and out my mouth.   

I don't buy the ones that depress me, or with a game like Fall out 3, I play them once hate the ending and get rid of it unless it's fixed by a DLC. 

BioWare has always had at least one ending that was satisfying and uplifting.  DA is the fist game I've been disappointed with and it's a blow.I personally won't recover from.  I know there are a lot of people who don't care and they will continue to send the LI to Morrigan when they want their image of a "good" ending or else romance the assassin, which I did in one game.  And that's cool.  But as a consumer, I do want BioWare to know that they have lost the trust of this long time customer, even it it makes no difference at all, and it probably doesn't.

I find it sad.  I do like violins. 

edit typo

Modifié par mopotter, 23 avril 2010 - 11:35 .

[mopotter]

Caldarin V wrote...

yeah, he doesn't make a huge amount of sense; he essentially wanted Loghain to pop up at the final battle and stop his character from taking the final blow...

Which you can do.  I've done it.  Of couse Alistair had to Marry the Queen and Alistair was mad, until I can back and talked to him when he admited that having Logain die to end the blight was a good thing.  I was however a female and his best friend not his LI,  but I'm assuming that if you were male and his friend this would still work. 

[mopotter]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
I will respectfully have to disagree. To me Morrigan's romance is perfect the way it is, tragedy, loss, bittersweet goodbye and all. This has nothing to do with breaking plots or not. I love the story just the way it is. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I think that any hint of a happy-ever-aftering with Morrigan would ruin an experience that I found unique and worthwhile. Romances with rainbows and puppies endings are dime a dozen in the larger scheme of things.

If I was able to make this part of sacred law, I would.

The Morrigan romance is great because it's the only romance plot that ever made me this close to crying (depends on how you define crying though...). And I love it. Yes, people sometimes have the emotional need to cry.

And really, do people actualyl expect to settle down with Morrigan, have kids and live in a farm? Her leaving was always there and she actually gets out of her way to warn you. It still came as a bit of a surprise, but I wasn't shoked.

I enjoyed the Morrigan romance and my character told her he would be searching for her and as far as I'm concerned that's what he is doing. 

[ejoslin]

mopotter wrote...

Difference is I pay for the video game and if it's a company I've never tried out I check out everything about the game before buying it.  I don't want to spend 30 - 40 or 50 hours of my life getting to know a character and then not have any chance for a reasonably good (yes sappy romantic love survives all odds) ending.   Not every ending, I don't care if some or most  of them are depressing just ONE out of all the endings. 

Hmmmm, the ending to my first playthrough.  Alistair died, still in love with my character.  My character herself was engaged to Zevran, and they rebuilt the grey wardens together.

THAT was a happy ending!  So happy, in fact, that in my subsequence playthroughs, I always romance Zevran.  Leliana can give similarly happy endings.

Edit: This may not be the happy ending you are looking for, but I just wanted to point out that there are TWO love interests where you can have a happy ending with no compromise.  So, that's half.  Even Alistair, if you can get over the DR, can give a happy ending.  So more than half of them are happy!

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 avril 2010 - 12:27 .

[Allattar1]

Methinks some people should avoid games with the description dark fantasy.

Plus they should never ever read or watch Romeo and Juliet, or any other tragedy.



Seriously if you feel that you can never buy a Bioware game again becuase.

You enjoyed the game all the way through, grew to love the characters, and then found a well written tragedy as the ending. Yet you found the tragedy of the story ruined the game, and you'll never buy a bioware game again...

The mind boggles.

[mopotter]

ejoslin wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Difference is I pay for the video game and if it's a company I've never tried out I check out everything about the game before buying it.  I don't want to spend 30 - 40 or 50 hours of my life getting to know a character and then not have any chance for a reasonably good (yes sappy romantic love survives all odds) ending.   Not every ending, I don't care if some or most  of them are depressing just ONE out of all the endings. 

Hmmmm, the ending to my first playthrough.  Alistair died, still in love with my character.  My character herself was engaged to Zevran, and they rebuilt the grey wardens together.

THAT was a happy ending!  So happy, in fact, that in my subsequence playthroughs, I always romance Zevran.  Leliana can give similarly happy endings.

Edit: This may not be the happy ending you are looking for, but I just wanted to point out that there are TWO love interests where you can have a happy ending with no compromise.  So, that's half.  Even Alistair, if you can get over the DR, can give a happy ending.  So more than half of them are happy!

Yes there are two love interest and I've done them both.  Zev is not my type but I have used him as a LI more than once.  I don't dislike him but I have no trouble killing him. 
I've also done the Alistair marry queen with Zev as my LI and Logain as a warden.   Alistair as LI where we kept Anora as Queen, Alistair as LI where we ruled together.  I've played Mage, Human, both elves all the time thinking that out of all the endings there should be one just ONE where you did not have to send Alistair to have  sex with Morigain in order to have both of them survive.  

BioWare is better than that and as far as I'm concerned they slacked off.    My idea of a happy ending does not include sending my LI to have sex with another woman.  That's the bottom line.  As it is, DA is not a game I will play 5 years from now.  I've played it and for me it's not a keeper.  Every other BioWare game I have played I consider Keepers.  I replay games like I reread books.  I still have my PC version of DA and when someone finish an alternate ending I'll dust it off and re-install it.  Till then, I play one of their other games, just finished JE again last month, and I will complain about this one.  <_<    If no one complains future games may have less choices.  I'm in favor of more choices not less.

[mopotter]

Allattar1 wrote...

Methinks some people should avoid games with the description dark fantasy.
Plus they should never ever read or watch Romeo and Juliet, or any other tragedy.

I Hate Romeo and Juliet.    I prefer Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo, and the original Cinderella where her sisters cut part of their feet off and birds pluck out their eyes and Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre where at the end the hero is blind.

Seriously if you feel that you can never buy a Bioware game again becuase.
You enjoyed the game all the way through, grew to love the characters, and then found a well written tragedy as the ending. Yet you found the tragedy of the story ruined the game, and you'll never buy a bioware game again...
The mind boggles.

No it's not that I won't ever buy a BioWare game again, it's that I won't pre-order a bioware game again except ME3 and I will research the game before buying it which I do with other companies but never had to with BioWare.  

And it's not the tragic ending -  There are many endings and I've tried them all.  I don't mind that in one you die.  i don't mind that in one Alistair dies.  I don't care that in one he has a hissy fit and leaves.  I don't mind that in one Alistair  has to have sex with Morrigan in order for both characters to survive.  But with all of these multiple endings, there should have been one that allows Alistair and his LI to survive without sending him to have sex with another woman.  

That is what irritates me to no end.  At least 2 of he story lines could have done this without any problem and they didn't and I know that a lot of players see no problem with it, but I do and since i do love BioWare I'm disappointed with their decision. 

[webbedfeet]

........I've been very happy with DA's ending, apart from the crappily coded romance flags, and would feel quite betrayed by Bioware if there is a have-cake-eat-cake-too perfect happily ever after. Then again, I was annoyed that you can get perfect happy solutions for most main quests. One of those 'your mileage may vary' things, I suppose?

(I actually think the DR is a bit have-cake-eat-cake. Albeit a cake somebody just tipped a bottle of soy sauce over. >_> I mean....given the context, sending your love to another woman for one loveless night is a small price to pay for thirty years together. And if you're romancing Morrigan, provided that you aren't playing an extreme Chantry devoutee, losing your lover but knowing you do continue to love each other through a magic ring isn't a terrible thing.)

Modifié par webbedfeet, 23 avril 2010 - 03:23 .

[Surango]

mopotter wrote...

 But with all of these multiple endings, there should have been one that allows Alistair and his LI to survive without sending him to have sex with another woman. 

So what do you propose then? You knew either the ritual takes place or someone dies.

[mopotter]

webbedfeet wrote...

........I've been very happy with DA's ending, apart from the crappily coded romance flags, and would feel quite betrayed by Bioware if there is a have-cake-eat-cake-too perfect happily ever after. Then again, I was annoyed that you can get perfect happy solutions for most main quests. One of those 'your mileage may vary' things, I suppose?

What other BioWare game have you played where there were multiple endings and none of them allowed the character and LI to have what some would call the cake and eat it ending?  Past history with their games gave me certain expectations.  

(I actually think the DR is a bit have-cake-eat-cake. Albeit a cake somebody just tipped a bottle of soy sauce over. >_> I mean....given the context, sending your love to another woman for one loveless night is a small price to pay for thirty years together. And if you're romancing Morrigan, provided that you aren't playing an extreme Chantry devoutee, losing your lover but knowing you do continue to love each other through a magic ring isn't a terrible thing.)

My problem is that sending him to the other woman is the only option for that stay together ending.  I'm not saying it should not have been an option.  I'm saying there should have been one option where you didn't have to do this.  Story wise it could have been done.     With Morrigan, my male character said he would be searching for her and I believe him.    

[ejoslin]

mopotter wrote...

Yes there are two love interest and I've done them both.  Zev is not my type but I have used him as a LI more than once.  I don't dislike him but I have no trouble killing him. 
I've also done the Alistair marry queen with Zev as my LI and Logain as a warden.   Alistair as LI where we kept Anora as Queen, Alistair as LI where we ruled together.  I've played Mage, Human, both elves all the time thinking that out of all the endings there should be one just ONE where you did not have to send Alistair to have  sex with Morigain in order to have both of them survive.  

Why?  I guess I don't see the problem with this. I think it's harder for the guys who romance Morrigan to deal with than it is for the women who romance Alistair.

Edit: I really do NOT see the problem here.  It's a sacrifice.  I think the BIGGER issue, but fy, is that you're creating that god baby.  But that's the price of both of you living.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 avril 2010 - 05:21 .

[Addai]

As stick-in-the-mud as I am IRL, I really can't fathom that people are so upset about a LI spending one night with Morrigan and the rest of his life by your side that it ruins the game for them.



*boggles*