185 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

Surango wrote...

mopotter wrote...

 But with all of these multiple endings, there should have been one that allows Alistair and his LI to survive without sending him to have sex with another woman. 

So what do you propose then? You knew either the ritual takes place or someone dies.

I know that now.  I did not know that before I tried 4 different background stories all ending up pretty much the same.  Now I'm waiting for some talented person(s) to fix it with a mod.  
If I were talented I'd make my own mod where if  Alaistair was my LI topped out with adoration, I could support Anora and recruit Loghain without Alistair leaving the wardens.  He might go off and fight by himself, but at the end after Loghain died he would admit to his Love,  that it was a good thing, just as he does if you are his friend and he is going to marry Anora.  If the adoration wasn't topped out he would leave.  

There are other things they could have done, and they would have done a wonderful job but they decided to do it this way and that's they way it goes and I will disagree with them forever and ever.     

[mellifera]

Addai67 wrote...

As stick-in-the-mud as I am IRL, I really can't fathom that people are so upset about a LI spending one night with Morrigan and the rest of his life by your side that it ruins the game for them.

*boggles*

My thoughts exactly. I may have some characters who are all "HELL NAW" about the whole thing but separate from them I would always go with it. In fact, even when I do have characters that tell Morrigan to screw off, I always make a separate save where the DR is done. There are infinitely worse things Morrigan could have asked, and as much as I may not like it I'd rather send him off for however long it takes to get the deed done if it means having more time.

[AlanC9]

mopotter wrote...

I would not have minded if this was one, possible ending but  it was the only ending where you and Alistair could survive without him either having sex with the witch, marrying someone else or leaving in a huff, with 5 different character backgrounds there should have been one possible ending where Logain joins and Alistair stays with his LI.  On my own I came up with 2 plausable ideas and I know the writers at BioWare are far more talented than I am.

So you simply can't deal with unpleasant choices in an RPG? 

[Tirigon]

@ OP:



It might seem odd, but in retrospective I LIKE the tragic ending. On my first playthrough I was mage and wanted to marry Alistair and rule with him. He said that was impossible and left me. So I didn´t do the dark ritual and wanted to sacrifice myself for Ferelden. However, Alistair had the same plan and so I ended up with my love dead, the teacherous wh0re Anora queen and Lelianna and Zevran both dumped in favor of the now dead Alistair.

I guess you can imagine that, at first, I was really pissed. But now I realize that this tragic was what made the game great. It made me actually sad, as it involved me emotionally.



On my second playthrough as Noble I successfully married Alistair and all were happy, and it was just.... "Meh. We´re happy, and the game´s over. All right". No emotional involvement at all.



In retrospective, the first ending was therefore a whole lot better.

[webbedfeet]

mopotter wrote...

webbedfeet wrote...

........I've been very happy with DA's ending, apart from the crappily coded romance flags, and would feel quite betrayed by Bioware if there is a have-cake-eat-cake-too perfect happily ever after. Then again, I was annoyed that you can get perfect happy solutions for most main quests. One of those 'your mileage may vary' things, I suppose?

What other BioWare game have you played where there were multiple endings and none of them allowed the character and LI to have what some would call the cake and eat it ending?  Past history with their games gave me certain expectations.  

(I actually think the DR is a bit have-cake-eat-cake. Albeit a cake somebody just tipped a bottle of soy sauce over. >_> I mean....given the context, sending your love to another woman for one loveless night is a small price to pay for thirty years together. And if you're romancing Morrigan, provided that you aren't playing an extreme Chantry devoutee, losing your lover but knowing you do continue to love each other through a magic ring isn't a terrible thing.)

My problem is that sending him to the other woman is the only option for that stay together ending.  I'm not saying it should not have been an option.  I'm saying there should have been one option where you didn't have to do this.  Story wise it could have been done.     With Morrigan, my male character said he would be searching for her and I believe him.    

I see your point, and that's why I called it Your Mileage May Vary. XD I've been playing BW's games since the first Baldur's Gate, and always wanted the conclusions in their recent games to be a little less....neat. Less 'everything wrapped up and even the dog has puppies', I suppose. You also get some fairly brutal epilogues with certain romance options in Throne of Bhaal that makes the ones in DA:O looks rather tame, IIRC. I don't think you really get to choose then, but I may also remember wrong. It's been quite a few years.

Of course I logically understand where you're coming from. I've thrown books at walls (figuratively speaking) for similar twists, and am just throwing in my 2 cents for DA's case, since I found 'no really good option' to fit perfectly well with DA's theme. I view it as similar to asking if there shouldn't have been an option to save Darth Vader's life in Return of the Jedi, I suppose, even if the media involved are radically different. Storywise it could be done and would make for a happier ending for a generally hopeful series, but I don't find a problem with it.

Modifié par webbedfeet, 23 avril 2010 - 05:44 .

[mopotter]

ejoslin wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Yes there are two love interest and I've done them both.  Zev is not my type but I have used him as a LI more than once.  I don't dislike him but I have no trouble killing him. 
I've also done the Alistair marry queen with Zev as my LI and Logain as a warden.   Alistair as LI where we kept Anora as Queen, Alistair as LI where we ruled together.  I've played Mage, Human, both elves all the time thinking that out of all the endings there should be one just ONE where you did not have to send Alistair to have  sex with Morigain in order to have both of them survive.  

Why?  I guess I don't see the problem with this. I think it's harder for the guys who romance Morrigan to deal with than it is for the women who romance Alistair.

Edit: I really do NOT see the problem here.  It's a sacrifice.  I think the BIGGER issue, but fy, is that you're creating that god baby.  But that's the price of both of you living.

That's ok.  I know a lot of people don't see the problem and it's one of those things that will never get resolved.     I agree the god child is a bigger issue.  I did like Morrigan, my friend and sister, I'm hoping she will actually do a good job at raising the child since I spent a lot of time talking to her. 

[mopotter]

AlanC9 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I would not have minded if this was one, possible ending but  it was the only ending where you and Alistair could survive without him either having sex with the witch, marrying someone else or leaving in a huff, with 5 different character backgrounds there should have been one possible ending where Logain joins and Alistair stays with his LI.  On my own I came up with 2 plausable ideas and I know the writers at BioWare are far more talented than I am.

So you simply can't deal with unpleasant choices in an RPG? 

YES i can deal with unpleasant choices in an RPG.  I do every choice I can it's one of the things that make RPG's fun.  Choices thats the whole point one of those choices were left out.  Eventually someone will fix it.  Till then I'm a lone voice in the wilderness hitting my head against a tree.  Gotta find some tylenol.

[mopotter]

webbedfeet wrote...


I see your point, and that's why I called it Your Mileage May Vary. XD I've been playing BW's games since the first Baldur's Gate, and always wanted the conclusions in their recent games to be a little less....neat. Less 'everything wrapped up and even the dog has puppies', I suppose. You also get some fairly brutal epilogues with certain romance options in Throne of Bhaal that makes the ones in DA:O looks rather tame, IIRC. I don't think you really get to choose then, but I may also remember wrong. It's been quite a few years.

Of course I logically understand where you're coming from. I've thrown books at walls (figuratively speaking) for similar twists, and am just throwing in my 2 cents for DA's case, since I found 'no really good option' to fit perfectly well with DA's theme. I view it as similar to asking if there shouldn't have been an option to save Darth Vader's life in Return of the Jedi, I suppose, even if the media involved are radically different. Storywise it could be done and would make for a happier ending for a generally hopeful series, but I don't find a problem with it.

  I have also figuratively speaking thrown some books against the wall and watched the ending of a movie in horror.  And, yes I would have liked to see Vader saved but really, I would have been more upset if Han and Leia had not ended up together,  with kids.   But I can accept a book or movie having an ending I don't like,  it's one ending and it's the authors.  if I hate it I just don't re-read it or watch the movie again.

With a video game (rpg anyway) it becomes my story in a strange way.  Logically I can understand that the game writers decide what they want and that's what they do,  and if it were any other game developer I would not have cared.  

The wonderful thing about BioWare is they suck me into their stories, make me care about the NPC's and give me choices to weave my own story within their world.  

I don't think I've ever said DA was a bad game I enjoyed it until the end where my choices came down to two and they made a friend more important than the LI.  So they disappointed me for the first time.  First time disappointments are always the worst.        

[Addai]

mopotter wrote...

I don't think I've ever said DA was a bad game I enjoyed it until the end where my choices came down to two and they made a friend more important than the LI.  

??  If you do the DR, Morrigan is still your friend and Alistair is still your lover.  What's the problem?

[rak72]

Addai67 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I don't think I've ever said DA was a bad game I enjoyed it until the end where my choices came down to two and they made a friend more important than the LI.  

??  If you do the DR, Morrigan is still your friend and Alistair is still your lover.  What's the problem?

It wouldn't be so disturbing for me if the FPC could have his baby one day. It is so agrivating to think this horrible woman who treated him like a piece of doo doo for a year gets to have his baby (albiet a demon baby), and all the two of you have to look foward to is turning into ghools together.  Plus, there is the way she rubbed Alistair  enjoying the experience in FPC's face - I will never forgive that.

On a side note, I don't know if it has been discussed befor, but do you guys think Mo's demon baby = Flemeth??

[mopotter]

Addai67 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I don't think I've ever said DA was a bad game I enjoyed it until the end where my choices came down to two and they made a friend more important than the LI.  

??  If you do the DR, Morrigan is still your friend and Alistair is still your lover.  What's the problem?

This is one of those days where I feel like I'm speaking a different language.    So many reasons I find it unsatisfying. 

In one game I played as an elf who romanced Zev.  Alistair was a friend, just a friend and I was able to have him marry, recruite Loghain and after the big ending Alistair said it was fitting that he died ending the blight.  I may be the only one whose husband is my best friend but I find it very strange and irritating that as his LI I can't support the Queen, recruite Loghain and have Alistair agree after the big fight that yes, it was good that Loghain died fighting the blight with me while Alistair angry went off to fight them with the Earl's men.   As it is - Alistair paid more attention to a Friends point of view then to some he said he loved.   

LI should have more power than a friend.  That's just one of my issues with my choices in the game. 

Since it's a dead end, I'll just go and wait till someone makes a change with a mod.  I've seen one that looks very interesting. 

[Addai]

mopotter wrote...

In one game I played as an elf who romanced Zev.  Alistair was a friend, just a friend and I was able to have him marry, recruite Loghain and after the big ending Alistair said it was fitting that he died ending the blight.  I may be the only one whose husband is my best friend but I find it very strange and irritating that as his LI I can't support the Queen, recruite Loghain and have Alistair agree after the big fight that yes, it was good that Loghain died fighting the blight with me while Alistair angry went off to fight them with the Earl's men.   As it is - Alistair paid more attention to a Friends point of view then to some he said he loved.   

LI should have more power than a friend.  That's just one of my issues with my choices in the game. 

Despite his attempt to be diplomatic, I wouldn't await any Satinalia invitations from Alistair on your character who spared Loghain and married him off to Anora.  And with a LI, the betrayal is deeper and thus his reaction stronger.

It sounds like you don't want any story repurcussions for recruiting Loghain- one of the primary nemeses of the game.  Whereas IMO it's really getting off easy that after making that decision you lose only Alistair versus, say, splitting your armies.

[asaiasai]

mopotter wrote...

Allattar1 wrote...

Methinks some people should avoid games with the description dark fantasy.
Plus they should never ever read or watch Romeo and Juliet, or any other tragedy.

I Hate Romeo and Juliet.    I prefer Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo, and the original Cinderella where her sisters cut part of their feet off and birds pluck out their eyes and Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre where at the end the hero is blind.

Seriously if you feel that you can never buy a Bioware game again becuase.
You enjoyed the game all the way through, grew to love the characters, and then found a well written tragedy as the ending. Yet you found the tragedy of the story ruined the game, and you'll never buy a bioware game again...
The mind boggles.

No it's not that I won't ever buy a BioWare game again, it's that I won't pre-order a bioware game again except ME3 and I will research the game before buying it which I do with other companies but never had to with BioWare.  

And it's not the tragic ending -  There are many endings and I've tried them all.  I don't mind that in one you die.  i don't mind that in one Alistair dies.  I don't care that in one he has a hissy fit and leaves.  I don't mind that in one Alistair  has to have sex with Morrigan in order for both characters to survive.  But with all of these multiple endings, there should have been one that allows Alistair and his LI to survive without sending him to have sex with another woman.  

That is what irritates me to no end.  At least 2 of he story lines could have done this without any problem and they didn't and I know that a lot of players see no problem with it, but I do and since i do love BioWare I'm disappointed with their decision. 

See i am the exact opposite i will not buy ME3 because ME2 was such a simple trite happy ending where if you follow a specific formula everybody comes home yea team!. I see the drift in that direction now with Awakenings and it does disturb me because ME2 is broken and weak in comparison to DAO. The trouble with games like ME2 is that you become so worried about the ending you forget to enjoy the story. It will unfold as it unfolds and the beautyful thing about that is, if you replay it again you can have something different. There is no real replay value to ME2 because once you do the mission and everybody survives there is nothing left to play for, you win. In DAO there is no win, only attrition and that is the best your gonna get.

Beautyful just beautyful the way it is, all dark and brooding, making people cry, inspiring these and many similar threads for the last 5 months, just fantastic.

Keep your ME out of my DAO

Asai

[Urshakk]

mopotter wrote...
I would not have minded if this was one, possible ending but  it was the only ending where you and Alistair could survive without him either having sex with the witch, marrying someone else or leaving in a huff, with 5 different character backgrounds there should have been one possible ending where Logain joins and Alistair stays with his LI.  On my own I came up with 2 plausable ideas and I know the writers at BioWare are far more talented than I am.

It wouldn't be a choice anymore then, if you could have both who would settle for just one then. The ending you want is all rainbows and sunshine, and you should be able to go find the pot of gold with everyone.

[Urshakk]

mopotter wrote...
Life isn't fair.  I want a vido game that helps to forget that.  DA isn't it

Ding ding ding ding! You figured it out. So why are you asking for a "everyone lives happily ever after" ending in a dark fantasy epic?

Modifié par Urshakk, 24 avril 2010 - 10:19 .

[Urshakk]

mopotter wrote...
YES i can deal with unpleasant choices in an RPG.  I do every choice I can it's one of the things that make RPG's fun.  Choices thats the whole point one of those choices were left out.

Apparently you can't, the game says to choose bewteen A and B, not take both.

Modifié par Urshakk, 24 avril 2010 - 11:20 .

[Urshakk]

Addai67 wrote...
??  If you do the DR, Morrigan is still your friend and Alistair is still your lover.  What's the problem?

The problem is he/she wants to have everything and he/she simply can't.

Modifié par Urshakk, 24 avril 2010 - 10:42 .

[Isavald]

Ridiculous claims like this are becoming so common place that I really have to question if I want to participate in a gaming community of any kind or just simply play the games and leave it at that. 

[AlanC9]

mopotter wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

So you simply can't deal with unpleasant choices in an RPG? 

YES i can deal with unpleasant choices in an RPG.  I do every choice I can it's one of the things that make RPG's fun.  Choices thats the whole point one of those choices were left out.  Eventually someone will fix it.  Till then I'm a lone voice in the wilderness hitting my head against a tree.  Gotta find some tylenol.

I misspoke. I should have said "So you simply can't deal with not having any good choices in an RPG?"

Nobody ever promised your Warden that the universe would be built to her liking.

[AlanC9]

mopotter wrote...
..where my choices came down to two and they made a friend more important than the LI

This is a bizarre way to think of the DR. Your PC and Alistair have already signed on for a suicide mission by this point. The DR is a way out for you. Whether you like it or not, it's better than not having the choice.

And how did they make Morrigan more important than Alistair? That just doesn't make any sense.

[BHRamsay]

Actually what blows me away is it's the choice between DR and US that broke some people.
Deciding between putting a kin-slaying tyrant and an elitist appeaser who won't survive long as king...that they didn't have an issues with
Deciding between a grieving father driven to perverting nature itself in order to get his vengeance and the innocent victims of his wrath driven to retribution...No worries
Deciding between murdering a man in full view of his daughter or losing the love and support of your only constant ally throughout... NP

Im sorry but anyone who didn't realize what was coming over the next fifty or so hours after having to leave mommy and daddy cousland to die ... is being rabidly disingenuous.

Modifié par BHRamsay, 24 avril 2010 - 07:08 .

[Tinnic]

No one likes a good tragic romance these days. I mean, I just finished a play through where a hardened Alistair was on the throne with Anora as his queen and my Warden sacrificed herself. She told Morrigan no because she didn't want to bring a demon spawn into the world. Then left Alistair at the gates, telling him she loved him and admitted that she's stubborn. They both knew this was probably it. She was going to sacrifice herself and all Alistair could really hope is that Riodan made the final blow to the Archdemon. But the my Warden was resigned to her fate for the sake of Feralden, to bring honour to her people and just because she's been a bit reckless ever since her wedding day went so horribly wrong and any semblance of an ordinary life was taken from her. She killed the Archdemon and then the funeral was so... sad. Alistair had the most tragic look on his face when he bid the Warden goodbye and said "You will be missed, more then I can ever say." *sob* Best ending ever! *sniff*

[Tinnic]

BHRamsay wrote...

Deciding between putting a kin-slaying tyrant and an elitist appeaser who won't survive long as king...that they didn't have an issues with

That was the choice I had the most issues with. Just because there is no "good" solution to this. Bhelen is the right choice for the future. As Oghren says a number of times, tradition is what's leading dwarves to extinction. Bhelen might just the dwarves last chance of survival. But to put Bhelen on the throne, you do have to send the "most honest man in Ozrimmar" to the executioners block... I really do feel sorry for the Warden when she has to make that choice.

[Xandurpein]

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".



No matter what you hope to achieve it will cost you something, whether it is your life, your love or your humanity, you'll end up paying. That's why it's so engaging even the thrid play. If there was a way to beat the game and get the rainbow and puppies ending, it would be dead emotionally once you figured it out. Now you struggle with the same dilemma's no matter how many times you play it.