185 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Xandurpein wrote...

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".

No matter what you hope to achieve it will cost you something, whether it is your life, your love or your humanity, you'll end up paying. That's why it's so engaging even the thrid play. If there was a way to beat the game and get the rainbow and puppies ending, it would be dead emotionally once you figured it out. Now you struggle with the same dilemma's no matter how many times you play it.

BUT BUT BUT!  (a lot of buts there).  You CAN have the rainbows and puppy ending, kind of...  I think Morrigan's romance has the most tragic ending, no matter what; it's part of its beauty.  Alistair's can end up wonderfully, if you can handle releasing a godbaby on the world.  Zevran's and Leliana's can end up with very little sacrifice, other than, well, having to deal with being a grey warden.  I actually think the ending is pretty good.  You ended the blight and saved the world, you're either a living hero or have become a legend.  Your romance?  That is the only iffy one, and 3 out of the 4 can end up together, still in love, or depending on choices you make, end tragically.

I don't think it's out of line at all that Alistair stops loving a warden who spares Loghain.  I think there are good reasons to spare Loghain, but it's out of line to expect Ali to take THAT.

[Tinnic]

ejoslin wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".

No matter what you hope to achieve it will cost you something, whether it is your life, your love or your humanity, you'll end up paying. That's why it's so engaging even the thrid play. If there was a way to beat the game and get the rainbow and puppies ending, it would be dead emotionally once you figured it out. Now you struggle with the same dilemma's no matter how many times you play it.

BUT BUT BUT!  (a lot of buts there).  You CAN have the rainbows and puppy ending, kind of...  I think Morrigan's romance has the most tragic ending, no matter what; it's part of its beauty.  Alistair's can end up wonderfully, if you can handle releasing a godbaby on the world.  Zevran's and Leliana's can end up with very little sacrifice, other than, well, having to deal with being a grey warden.  I actually think the ending is pretty good.  You ended the blight and saved the world, you're either a living hero or have become a legend.  Your romance?  That is the only iffy one, and 3 out of the 4 can end up together, still in love, or depending on choices you make, end tragically.

I don't think it's out of line at all that Alistair stops loving a warden who spares Loghain.  I think there are good reasons to spare Loghain, but it's out of line to expect Ali to take THAT.

I think you are missing the point though. The Dark Ritual is not without its costs. It's just that YOU are not the one paying it. Someone will eventually pay for the Dark Ritual. How and what the ultimate cost will be is yet to be determined. But there is a cost and ultimately, taking the Dark Ritual is similar to the quest "Asunder", where the Warden can accept a reward from the Fade Beast and let it live. The Warden walks a way a winner, but others will pay for the Warden setting the Fade Beast free. Same deal with the Dark Ritual. The warden wins but others will lose.

[ejoslin]

Tinnic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".

No matter what you hope to achieve it will cost you something, whether it is your life, your love or your humanity, you'll end up paying. That's why it's so engaging even the thrid play. If there was a way to beat the game and get the rainbow and puppies ending, it would be dead emotionally once you figured it out. Now you struggle with the same dilemma's no matter how many times you play it.

BUT BUT BUT!  (a lot of buts there).  You CAN have the rainbows and puppy ending, kind of...  I think Morrigan's romance has the most tragic ending, no matter what; it's part of its beauty.  Alistair's can end up wonderfully, if you can handle releasing a godbaby on the world.  Zevran's and Leliana's can end up with very little sacrifice, other than, well, having to deal with being a grey warden.  I actually think the ending is pretty good.  You ended the blight and saved the world, you're either a living hero or have become a legend.  Your romance?  That is the only iffy one, and 3 out of the 4 can end up together, still in love, or depending on choices you make, end tragically.

I don't think it's out of line at all that Alistair stops loving a warden who spares Loghain.  I think there are good reasons to spare Loghain, but it's out of line to expect Ali to take THAT.

I think you are missing the point though. The Dark Ritual is not without its costs. It's just that YOU are not the one paying it. Someone will eventually pay for the Dark Ritual. How and what the ultimate cost will be is yet to be determined. But there is a cost and ultimately, taking the Dark Ritual is similar to the quest "Asunder", where the Warden can accept a reward from the Fade Beast and let it live. The Warden walks a way a winner, but others will pay for the Warden setting the Fade Beast free. Same deal with the Dark Ritual. The warden wins but others will lose.

I have said previously that the big issue with the Dark Ritual is releasing a godbaby on the world.  I didn't think I needed to say it again.

Edit: Besides, you don't have to do the DR to run off with Zevran or Leliana.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 avril 2010 - 09:26 .

[Xandurpein]

ejoslin wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".

No matter what you hope to achieve it will cost you something, whether it is your life, your love or your humanity, you'll end up paying. That's why it's so engaging even the thrid play. If there was a way to beat the game and get the rainbow and puppies ending, it would be dead emotionally once you figured it out. Now you struggle with the same dilemma's no matter how many times you play it.

BUT BUT BUT!  (a lot of buts there).  You CAN have the rainbows and puppy ending, kind of...  I think Morrigan's romance has the most tragic ending, no matter what; it's part of its beauty.  Alistair's can end up wonderfully, if you can handle releasing a godbaby on the world.  Zevran's and Leliana's can end up with very little sacrifice, other than, well, having to deal with being a grey warden.  I actually think the ending is pretty good.  You ended the blight and saved the world, you're either a living hero or have become a legend.  Your romance?  That is the only iffy one, and 3 out of the 4 can end up together, still in love, or depending on choices you make, end tragically.

I don't think it's out of line at all that Alistair stops loving a warden who spares Loghain.  I think there are good reasons to spare Loghain, but it's out of line to expect Ali to take THAT.

I agree that riding into the sunset with Leliana or Zevran apears to be the closest to a really happy ending you can get, but you still end up doing a lot of very distasteful choices before you get that far. Even those endings require some very selective memory to feel rainbow happy.

[webbedfeet]

I wonder if the ending option would look more 'third happy end option presents itself' if you look at it like this...

Normal Option 1 : You die.

Normal Option 2 : Your Love/BFF/Future King/Fun Person To Torment dies.

Third Traditional Bioware Way-out Option 3 : Dark Ritual. You live! You get married! Ferelden has a golden age coming!



Of course it's not perfect, but still.

[Herr Uhl]

Xandurpein wrote...

I agree that riding into the sunset with Leliana or Zevran apears to be the closest to a really happy ending you can get, but you still end up doing a lot of very distasteful choices before you get that far. Even those endings require some very selective memory to feel rainbow happy.

Alastair being mad at you/dead/drunk is the only bad thing that comes to mind. Loghain sacrificing himself is a happy ending.

Well, except for Orzammar where there are no rainbows. Otherwise, rescue all in Redcliffe, Circle mage the demon, save the magi, free the werewolves and destroy that crazy cult (it had to be done).

[Xandurpein]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I agree that riding into the sunset with Leliana or Zevran apears to be the closest to a really happy ending you can get, but you still end up doing a lot of very distasteful choices before you get that far. Even those endings require some very selective memory to feel rainbow happy.

Alastair being mad at you/dead/drunk is the only bad thing that comes to mind. Loghain sacrificing himself is a happy ending.

Well, except for Orzammar where there are no rainbows. Otherwise, rescue all in Redcliffe, Circle mage the demon, save the magi, free the werewolves and destroy that crazy cult (it had to be done).

We may simply have different view of what is required for a rainbow and puppies ending. My point though is that I think the game is so much better for not being all happy and often feel difficult to make choices in.

[Herr Uhl]

Xandurpein wrote...

We may simply have different view of what is required for a rainbow and puppies ending. My point though is that I think the game is so much better for not being all happy and often feel difficult to make choices in.

Yup, but if we go by the fairytale norm, that is a pretty painless playthrough. Then ride off into the sunset with the rogue of your choice. It is possible (if boring).

[Tinnic]

ejoslin wrote...

Tinnic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".

No matter what you hope to achieve it will cost you something, whether it is your life, your love or your humanity, you'll end up paying. That's why it's so engaging even the thrid play. If there was a way to beat the game and get the rainbow and puppies ending, it would be dead emotionally once you figured it out. Now you struggle with the same dilemma's no matter how many times you play it.

BUT BUT BUT!  (a lot of buts there).  You CAN have the rainbows and puppy ending, kind of...  I think Morrigan's romance has the most tragic ending, no matter what; it's part of its beauty.  Alistair's can end up wonderfully, if you can handle releasing a godbaby on the world.  Zevran's and Leliana's can end up with very little sacrifice, other than, well, having to deal with being a grey warden.  I actually think the ending is pretty good.  You ended the blight and saved the world, you're either a living hero or have become a legend.  Your romance?  That is the only iffy one, and 3 out of the 4 can end up together, still in love, or depending on choices you make, end tragically.

I don't think it's out of line at all that Alistair stops loving a warden who spares Loghain.  I think there are good reasons to spare Loghain, but it's out of line to expect Ali to take THAT.

I think you are missing the point though. The Dark Ritual is not without its costs. It's just that YOU are not the one paying it. Someone will eventually pay for the Dark Ritual. How and what the ultimate cost will be is yet to be determined. But there is a cost and ultimately, taking the Dark Ritual is similar to the quest "Asunder", where the Warden can accept a reward from the Fade Beast and let it live. The Warden walks a way a winner, but others will pay for the Warden setting the Fade Beast free. Same deal with the Dark Ritual. The warden wins but others will lose.

I have said previously that the big issue with the Dark Ritual is releasing a godbaby on the world.  I didn't think I needed to say it again.

Edit: Besides, you don't have to do the DR to run off with Zevran or Leliana.

No but you lose a friend, whether to death or to betrayal (sparing Loghain is a form of betrayal to Alistair) but you do lose a friend. Of course that is assuming your Warden thinks of Alistair as a friend. If your Warden does not, then the sacrificing Alistair, either directly to the Archdemon or indirectly by sparing Loghain, wouldn't matter to the Warden. I mean, a lot of people do hate Alistair and I am sure these people have more options for a rainbows and puppy ending then others who would pause at the idea of sacrificing Alistair.

[ejoslin]

Tinnic wrote...

No but you lose a friend, whether to death or to betrayal (sparing Loghain is a form of betrayal to Alistair) but you do lose a friend. Of course that is assuming your Warden thinks of Alistair as a friend. If your Warden does not, then the sacrificing Alistair, either directly to the Archdemon or indirectly by sparing Loghain, wouldn't matter to the Warden. I mean, a lot of people do hate Alistair and I am sure these people have more options for a rainbows and puppy ending then others who would pause at the idea of sacrificing Alistair.

Yeh, I've certainly done the ending with Alistair hating my character more than once.  He can be a little unreasonable at times!

[BHRamsay]

Xandurpein wrote...

If there is anything like a constant theme to this game it is "Nothing comes without a cost".

Exactly my point you can't finish even one Origin without learning this harsh lesson very quickly.

Then you get to watch Ser Jory and Davath die followed by every soul you came in contact with at Ostagar.

Two Love Interests are rather proud of the body count they aquire during the game and you actually lose approval with several members of your band of merry men including the love interests if you show so much as a trace of mercy, pity or kindness. Some of the Romances will end if you fail to show a certain ruthlessness at the right moment.

How anyone gets to the the ENDGAME and then is shocked, shocked I tell you, that some harrowing cost will be required to bring this story to conclusion boggles my mind.