432 réponses à ce sujet

[Derengard]

Trial and error, I don't see the difference to BG2 (not interested in 1). As long as it's not as bad as ME, where I never know what's going on, and what to do, it's good.

[Dr3xx]

Personally I'm having a blast on Normal difficulty (PC) however I am noticing it's too easy in alot of cases, so my next playthrough will be on hard.



I'm not going to bash people that find it too difficult, because this day in age... go figure. What I will say though, is if you are coming up against something you believe is too hard, switch it to easy. After you complete that encounter, switch it back... and do so again for the next "brick wall". If every encounter is a brick wall for you, then you obviously need practice and should play on easy period.

[jadedjim]

this game is totally fun. i love the magi story line. true the combat is a bit muddy,and the a.i. takes a little getting used to. i'm sure an update will remedy this.

[kansadoom]

The only balance I find bad in this game is some of the random encounters but everything else is fine if you use strategy

[3lb3r3th]

This is all anecdotal, but I seriously think that people who are complaining about how horrible the game is are just overreacting - seriously overreacting. The game may suck for them, they may hate it, it may have horrible gameplay for them -
but the sweeping "Bioware, you FAIL!" statements as if, by angry fiat their experiences and opinions are paramount, are what create the negative reactions which are dubbed "fan boy" or "elitest."
(...)
If the game isn't your cup of tea. play a different game and learn from the experience. We've all had our (to use a phrase that references my own experiences) "Chronicles of Riddick" moments where we bought something based on hype that many people did indeed love but didn't live up to our own expectations.

What this comes down to is OPINION.
(...)

Myself, I still think the mostly 2D graphics of an SSI TSR Gold Box game bring me far more entertainment than many of the 3D first-person worlds like Oblivion - personal preference.

If some people do not like the way combat is handled in this game that is acceptable.
If you don't like that - well okay, but thats another cup of tea: personal preference.

Sidenote: i enjoyed very much SSI's Goldbox series, above all Pools of Darkness and the Ultima series. Turn based combat is not a bad thing. If you would remake that properly with todays standarts of visuals and animation that would surely find a lot of acceptance as well.

I had a hard time accepting free 3D enviroment RPGs. Only with Morrowind (Oblivion is a mere shadow of that game even if technically more advanced) i found a game i liked, later joined by Fallout3 (very FPS like sometimes) and Mass Effect  (squad behaviour is not a strong point of this game).

There is nothing wrong with this game. It borrowed a good deal from World of Warcraft combat wise (wich is a good thing in my opinion) but if you only want to experience single character control or turn based combat this game is not your cup of tea (i like all of those).

But claiming the AI is weak is like claiming Mt. Everest is a small hill. Its simply not true. 

I have seen a lot of weak AIs in games. I experienced the progress of computer games (and consoles and arcade) from Pacman to now. I have buried half a dozend of platforms (i come back to by emulation sometimes and there are a lot of forgotten and overlooked good concepts).

Its clear that this AI evolved somewhere from NWN2. A game i dropped because of the AI (there was no way you could set a healer to cast healing spells, you could only manually do this). THAT was horrible AI (unexpanded).

The difference to Dragon Age is: the AI works... flawlessly.

I know if something works not out the way it is supposed it is only natural to think "AI fault". After my experience with the ranger always drawing swords in combat i also thought that. But in the end i noticed it was my setting causing that and the AI was perfectly able making use of multiple weapon sets. I have not found a single bug so far and my archer now holds on to her bow.

If your characters will not get up instantly when knocked down then take a look at the buff/debuff icons and notice the knockdown timer, after wich they will get up. Thats also no error. If you switch to them and klick again, chances are the knockdown timer ran out and they get up (wich they would have in any case). Or maybe you choose a passive attack routine (in wich case they won't get up because they are supposed to wait for commands).

This allows for some very advanced group tactics you will not be able to pull off in any other singleplayer game (and in MMORPGS its more difficult because somebody always messes up and brings a 40 man group to the brink of destruction by "accidently misklicking on scattershot").

This also allows for some advanced encounters requiring you make use of those new group behaviour options and not just: harder and more monsters.

This game has the most advanced group AI options and it works. Thats a fact. If you like that way of gameplay or not... thats another cup of tea.

[rebump]

[off topic]

3lb3r3th:

Did you every play the Phantasie series from SSI?

Modifié par rebump, 10 novembre 2009 - 09:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

OurSacrifice wrote...

Not once was there a discussion about the most VIABLE party in the game being 4 mages since they can wear heavy armor as well.

I dispute that.  Long and hard have I argued that the best party in party-based RPGs is the one with the greatest possible number of mages in it.

[addiction21]

Roam Hylia wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

waffles

... I hate you.

Now I have to go out for waffles.

Have you considered getting into advertising?

What makes you think im not? You are going to get some tasty waffles

[Haexpane]

Well it's fairly obvious that no game can ever match the greatness of Baldur's Gate 2 and SoA, but those were 2D games. Pathfinding AI is 100X easier, and the console version has the gimped camera, making combat even more hectic.



I really wish I had a "space bar" and kb and overhead cam on my PS3 version because I'm sure the fun factor would increase 10fold for me.



I won't say this game is "ruined" or "makes me sick to my stomach" or any other hyperbole like that, but it's quite noticeable that the combat, character development, "dice rolling" etc.. is not up to Baldur's Gate standards.



However it still beats 99% of JRPG combat which is either a zelda clone or turn based boredom.



The fact is MMOs have shaped RPG combat in western games. Kiting, AoE, exploiting pathfinding, unbalanced classes, broken abilities,



These things are just a fact of life in the modern RPG scene. People look at WoW sales and addiction and shape their combat that way. Truth is WoW borrowed a LOT of it's combat and overall look/feel from Everquest Online Adventures for the PS2.



The problem is of course the PS2 game was limited to "what's on the disc" for graphics and a lot of gameplay. But if you look at that game, and the timelines, EQOA was the first to do the MMO but you can go solo, MMO but "cartoony" graphics, MMO where tanks finally were not boring to play... lots of first things in EQOA that are now in every MMO and RPG

[Acidyl]

People really should play baldur's gate games again before they post on these forums. I think they are godly too; but to say that DA:O is much more trial and error than those games is pretty stupid.

Simply traveling in BG from one place to another could result in no fighting; fighting a group of tugs where if a large group of archers spawned closed to your mage then he was dead meat; and even fighting a couple of wyverns (or was it just one);
Then there's the encounters with basiliks which just turned half your party to stone before your realized it. And god forbid traveling into the firebrand ruins (or what where they called) and an early level:
Or fighting all your way to the pit that Dynaheir is in; then getting butchered of on the way back by respawned or some groups you just missed.
And who can honestly say they didn't cheat the system somewhat the first times they needed to kill the Iron Throne leaders or at the final battle against Sarevok and his gang? And don't get me started on the expansion pack......

And really; to start comparing to Baldur's Gate 2; you really need to wait for DA 2.

DA:O is a great game; If you don't like it or don't have the patience to learn a difficult game; then by all means move on; just don't think your opinion is general rule for everyone to accept and calling everyone else a fanboy.

Modifié par Acidyl, 10 novembre 2009 - 09:12 .

[Hoopitywhatwhat]

I played and loved the BG series. I'm now maybe 6 hours into Dragon Age. So far, I'm loving it. But there's one little thing that keeps bringing my mood down, and it took a while for me to realize what is:



Back in BG, I used to relish every encounter and enjoy bashing/ticking/charming/trapping/exploding whatever was in my way. In Dragon Age, I find I'm annoyed at the onset of every battle. I just wish they'd get out of my damn way.



Why is this so? I don't think it's because of strategy, AI, or whatever. It's the controls. Every real time minute of battle seems to be: Pull the camera around trying to look at everything, click on some enemies to gauge their health, get annoyed at trying to select my own party members alone or in groups, give a bunch of commands, and then repeat. I know BG had plenty of management of its own to do, but it never felt so damn cumbersome as this. I guess I just hate all the clicking and turning. Here's hoping for BG3.

[Sylixe]

[quote]OurSacrifice wrote...

[quote]BluesMan1956 wrote...

Why can't games be accepted as what they were designed to be?[/quote]

Because gamers know what makes a good game more than developers do?  otherwise there'd be no patches, no content updates, no improvements for sequels or future titles using similar designs.  I can't believe you would even suggest that gamers just sit back and accept whatever the developers create.  It's borderline ignorant.

[quote]

That's the exact reason so many games get destroyed and are unplayable now.  Gamers no about as much about what is enjoyable as the developers themselves. 

There's two major reasons though that games become worse after launch.  First and most importantly the "money men" behind the project want to get as many units/subscriptions as they can because in the end now it's all about the bottom line and less about what is good for the game.  That then leads into the "Lazy Player" generation who demand everything be handed to them with little effort.  So games are made stupidly easy and people buy them in mass only to see them sit on a shelf permanently 6 months later.  Unless of course the developer can keep a carrot dangling in front of them with the illusion of more to see. 

If you look at almost ever RPG that came out when the original NWN was released or prior to it they were all about complexity and an engrossing story.  Then some companies came along and slapped together some crap and called it an RPG but what it was really just a mindless exercise in "how long will you follow the carrot".  From those companies emerged the culprity that i key on as destroying the genre completely, blizzard.  They have single handedly shown producers that the way to make money is produce a low quality product that has an infinite carrot attached to it.  Now all studios and producers run with this model in mind to keep the money flowing over the years rather than the one shot in the arm they got from previous titles.

Now i am not knieve to think that realistically these are companies doing what they are supposed to be doing.  They are making money for their investors and keeping people working.  It's just sad that the new generation of gamers doesn't understand what they are missing by skipping the journey in game and just experiencing the instant gratification.

[Reianor]

While I think i understand what the op meant to complain about. I partially disagree. Sure kiting isn't fun. But are you sure this is something introduced in DA? Can't say much about difficulty balancing in DA, but I ran circles with my fighters waaay back in BG2. And about BG I can say it had an astounding level of difficulty balancing. I for example went gradually from easy to insane. (been my 1st Crpg) over the replays. Ended up running because insane with consumables was no fun and standing in place after taking 1 or 2 hits was a death wish. Had to run till healers did their job. Wasn't the funnest thing in the world, but nothing to write on forums about either. Now, this maybe because I'm new to DA, but running in DA seems more frustrating and healing with a consumable less fun-breaking than in BG. I perform skin saving maneuvers from time to time, but that's about 10 times as rare as I did in BG.

From what i saw so far DA is much closer to BG than any other BW game from NWN 1 to date. And those had horrible (from my point of view) difficulty balancing btw (with a disputable exeption of ME which largely depend's on chosen class and player's genre preferences). To be honest on my 1st launch of DA I set it to nightmare expecting another "enjoy the railed story, pew-pew some spells" gameplay. Been pleasantly surprised to see the second part of that expectation fail, although I still think top difficulty shouldn't be something for 1st playthrough, but thats still an improvement and and a hugely anticipated one to boot.

To make it short, if you are looking for a solution to your frustration try a spirit healer + poultice + optionally healing from a damage dealing mage - that should reduce the running on nightmare to acceptable amounts. If you just want to vent your frustration in someone's face, can't help you.

Now, if anyone still hungry for some anger feel free to flame me about skipping a boatload worth of flame wars. I'd even pretend to feel miserable for your fulfillment, but I don't intend to participate in a conversation that was not intended to be productive. 

[OurSacrifice]

Derengard wrote...

Trial and error, I don't see the difference to BG2 (not interested in 1). As long as it's not as bad as ME, where I never know what's going on, and what to do, it's good.

That's the catch though.  In the IE games, there were only a couple of fights that were trial and error, and those were generally the ones that were surprise attacks, and if I recall, some of the ones that had traps on the floor you were actually fighting on.  Otherwise, EVERY encounter in the IE games were completable without having to memorize everything, prebuff the party, etc...  I know that I never pre-cast buffs on my party prior to combat, as when I play a RPG, I try to play it as if it were "real" in the sense that I don't use any before hand knowledge of enemies around a corner, or a discussion with someone automatically leading to combat.

They were balanced to that effect.  There's nothing fun about dieing because you don't know the fight to the last detail and then trivializing it with flawless execution of tactics your actual characters had no knowledge of beforehand.  It's a sign of a broken combat engine.

[OurSacrifice]

rukkusorg wrote...

Thread is long. Set to easy run in like noob mashing buttons?

Read the thread, then you'll realize how out of place your comment is.

[thisisme8]

OurSacrifice wrote...

BluesMan1956 wrote...

Why can't games be accepted as what they were designed to be?

Because gamers know what makes a good game more than developers do?  otherwise there'd be no patches, no content updates, no improvements for sequels or future titles using similar designs.  I can't believe you would even suggest that gamers just sit back and accept whatever the developers create.  It's borderline ignorant.

Nixhound77 wrote...

OP, is the main problem for you that
you think easy is too easy and normal too hard, so you want an
additional difficulty-setting that's between easy and normal?

That would be a start.  I would much prefer other changes instead, such as improving NPC AI and adding additional auto-pause options.

I may just be speaking out of my krogan (har!), but I think I've seen a couple player mods for the AI.  That should be worth checking out for you.  Usually one sentiment is never alone, so you may just want to give the mod community a little time to come out with some mods that make the game closer to your liking.

Again, don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure the game is working as intended to the developers, so discussing this topic in the Modder's forum may be a better use of your energy.

[Sejborg]

Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?

[OurSacrifice]

thisisme8 wrote...

I may just be speaking out of my krogan (har!), but I think I've seen a couple player mods for the AI.  That should be worth checking out for you.  Usually one sentiment is never alone, so you may just want to give the mod community a little time to come out with some mods that make the game closer to your liking.

Again, don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure the game is working as intended to the developers, so discussing this topic in the Modder's forum may be a better use of your energy.

I wonder if any modders have looked into more auto-pause options yet.  Would definately be worth checking out.

[Creston918]

Please Bioware, please please please for the love of God, do not change the combat any further, as it's perfect the way it is. Not everyone wants to have enemies fall over in a single blow. Some people LIKE that the game is tough and that combine requires thinking and a bit of micromanagement.

[OurSacrifice]

Creston918 wrote...

Please Bioware, please please please for the love of God, do not change the combat any further, as it's perfect the way it is. Not everyone wants to have enemies fall over in a single blow. Some people LIKE that the game is tough and that combine requires thinking and a bit of micromanagement.

Because more auto-pause options and better AI will cause you to kill enemies in one hit!

[tls5669]

Reading this post is terrible, absolutely terrible!

[Shadow_Viper]

IFL2P

[Sidney]

Creston918 wrote...

Please Bioware, please please please for the love of God, do not change the combat any further, as it's perfect the way it is. Not everyone wants to have enemies fall over in a single blow. Some people LIKE that the game is tough and that combine requires thinking and a bit of micromanagement.

My problem is the level of micromanagement. Ny NPC's won't iwisely use their powers - my scripts for them can't cover everything and can cause some really dumb results. Example, I want my mage to target other mages. Nice theory and I set the script. Well then I see my mage running past my tanks because the enemy mage, in this encounter, is way behjind the fighters. She gets pummled.

Plus, BW has continued down the tiny incremental - and mostly impenetrable -  equipment options. Am I better off with a +4 defense and 2.25 armor or +10 mental resistance and a 2.52 armor. I know some really deep micromanagers might love that junk but really is that fun? I wind up spending swaths of time piddling around with inventory and making decisions that are so finely grained they might not matter. JA2 used to have their "tons of guns" setting and I wish DA:O, or ME, had a more streamlined inventory system for those of us who don't think role playing and playing stock boy are the same thing.

[ApacheX2]

OurSacrifice wrote...

This is supposed to be the spirtual successor to Baldur's Gate?  Really?  To me, it just seems like a game created to simply try and mesh a formula that works for a popular MMO with a single player game.  Having to manage aggro with 4 characters, having to deal with combat scenarios that aren't even properly balanced, having to deal with NPCs that are supposed to help, but instead opt to stand in FIRE they created only to die in 4 seconds without you being able to ask them to move away ... it's all just sloppy.

Bioware, your games have always been fun, they've always been engaging and interested from the opening scene to the final credits.  But this game - just doesn't cut it.  The combat is terrible, the balance is incredibly poor, overwhelming odds, in a game that's just completely about getting smashed to pieces just isn't a concept for fun.

BG had some very minor trial and error combat, but with a knowledge of the ruleset you could almost always go into an encounter and walk away victorious, not because it was an easy game, but because it was properly balanced to allow the player a small amount of freedom in their party choices.  This game however, is 100% trial and error, with a RNG component added in to artifically increase a difficulty that's already not properly balanced for a standard party.  Sure you could stack tanks & mages and blast through encounters with mass AoE like you're running a raid in World of Warcraft, but there's absolutely no fun gameplay elements in a boring concept like that.

If *this* is the "polished" product that PC users had to wait 1/2 a year longer for, then I'm literally sick to my stomach thinking what the product was like before this layer of polish was added to the game.  You've taken the concept of micromanaging your characters to a level that just isn't FUN.  I don't want to hit the spacebar every other second to make sure my characters are doing what they're supposed to be doing.  I don't want to have to do stupid tactics like running my tank in and kiting enemies around like an idiot while my ranged pummel them.  That's not an interesting, or even remotely enjoyable gameplay experience.  But, since I also don't want to go into a battle and steamroll the enemy, there's no middle ground offered at the moment.

You're game is broken, it's not enjoyable, and I so dearly wish I could get a refund from you or EA for being a beta tester for a micro-management simulator.  Going back and watching gameplay videos and video reviews you can clearly tell it was played on easy - which is pretty pathetic considering your history of games.  But, I guess that's what happens when you become larger than life and swallowed up by EA.  You start churning out crap instead of the jewels that you were once widely known for.

Thanks for the memories - I tried to be optimistic about DA:O, but you failed to deliver.

Wow!....16 pages of crying!.....Go practice playing this game....im so glad talent and skill can NOT be bought otherwise we would have everyone going to buy it!