137 réponses à ce sujet

[ScorpSt]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Why does Samara want to kill you just for being a renegade though? I can't think of to many things renegade Shepard can do that are in direct violation of her code. It's not like I'm gunning down innocent civilians. The only thing I can think of would be letting Pitne For go.

Maybe I just don't know the specifics of her code. Does anyone know what would be a violation of it?

Regardless I don't see Samara saying she might have to kill you as a reason to pick Morinth anyways. You know a lot more about Samara than Morinth. Morinth is still generally unknown and there's no guarantee that she will somehow be more stable than Samara. Seems like an unnecessary risk, which I thought renegade Shepard was generally opposed to.

The problem with Samara's code is that you don't know what would be a violation of it, though allowing innocents to come to harm is part of it. If you talk to Samara, you find out that she fought Nhilus, and he only escaped by puting her in a situation that meant persuing him would mean sacirificing innocents. Now think about the X57 mission. Were you to do it again, and stop Balak at the cost of the civilians, Samara would have seen you as violating the code. She would be honor bound to kill you.

wizardryforever wrote...

Is there some reason people think
Morinth can't kill people any other way than through melding?  She has
pretty kickass biotics herself, remember, as she stood up successfully
to Samara in a direct confrontation.  Also, she's just as capable of
using guns as anyone (except hanar, the wimps), so she could still shoot
you.

She could kill Shepard that way, but she's intrigued enough that she only wants to kill your Shepard via sex. If she can't have that, then she's happy to keep you alive.

[Vaeliorin]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
Samara says if you force her to do something against her code she may have to kill you if she ever sees you again.

My Shepard is a renegade. Do the math.

I'm not afraid of Morinth. I resisted her before and can do so again.

Yes but the probability of Morinth trying to kill you is still much greater than Samara (even when you are renegade.)

Sure, but if Samara's trying to kill you, she's probably justified and can get aid from various people.  However, if Morinth tries to kill you, you can get aid to track her down and take her out.

At least, that's how my Renegade Shep viewed it.  And it's not like Morinth is going to be able to try and kill you without you knowing about it.

The fact that you do things that you think would justify your death concern me.

I don't.  My Renegade Shep did.  Abandoning the people on Zaeed's loyalty mission is but one example of something my Renegade Shep did for which he deserves to be executed.

[Sajuro]

Reason.

Shepard: Hey Morinth, I think Jacob likes art -hint hint-

Morinth: ah...(stands up and leaves room to 'see Jacob)

[eternalnightmare13]

AntiChri5 wrote...

 For so long now i have been wondering how anyone could possibly justify this level of stupidity. I now have a thin, shaky justification for it.

1. Interrogation.

If we ever REALLY need some info Morinth will get it out of 'em in no time.

Sorry but my Shep is great at interogation.  Let's his fists do the talking while the punk's lawyer is ''stuck in traffic''.  Shepard: 1  Intergalatic Skank Morinth: 0

2. Indoctrination.

Turian councillor getting you down? Wish you had a way to make him your minions puppet? Now you can!

Thats about all i've got.

What are talkin' 'bout Willis?!   Morinth is an asari not a Reaper...

[NICKjnp]

Sajuro wrote...

Reason.
Shepard: Hey Morinth, I think Jacob likes art -hint hint-
Morinth: ah...(stands up and leaves room to 'see Jacob)

I approve... also you can tell Morinth to get bent if she ties the sex line on you.  However you can't tell Samara to get bent if she hit you with reave.  Morinth is a renegade choice and Samara is paragon... besides it's in game and you just try out different scenarios.  I almost always played ME1 paragon but it didn't stop me from doing a couple renegad playthroughs.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

AntiChri5 wrote...

 For so long now i have been wondering how anyone could possibly justify this level of stupidity. I now have a thin, shaky justification for it.

1. Interrogation.

If we ever REALLY need some info Morinth will get it out of 'em in no time.

2. Indoctrination.

Turian councillor getting you down? Wish you had a way to make him your minions puppet? Now you can!

Thats about all i've got.

Not enough to have Samara killed for it.

[Internet Kraken]

ScorpSt wrote...



The problem with Samara's code is that you don't know what would be a violation of it, though allowing innocents to come to harm is part of it. If you talk to Samara, you find out that she fought Nhilus, and he only escaped by puting her in a situation that meant persuing him would mean sacirificing innocents. Now think about the X57 mission. Were you to do it again, and stop Balak at the cost of the civilians, Samara would have seen you as violating the code. She would be honor bound to kill you.

That doesn't seem right. I thought abandoning innocents in pursuit of somebody dangerous was considered dishonorable by her code, but not something she kill somebody over. I know that she would never abandon innocents. But I don;t see why her code requires her to kill someone just for abandoning innocents. I could understand it if you were the one putting them in danger, but in a situation like the burning factory Shepard isn't the one that caused the innocents to die. It was Zaeed's fault.

[ScorpSt]

Internet Kraken wrote...

ScorpSt wrote...

The problem with Samara's code is that you don't know what would be a violation of it, though allowing innocents to come to harm is part of it. If you talk to Samara, you find out that she fought Nhilus, and he only escaped by puting her in a situation that meant persuing him would mean sacirificing innocents. Now think about the X57 mission. Were you to do it again, and stop Balak at the cost of the civilians, Samara would have seen you as violating the code. She would be honor bound to kill you.

That doesn't seem right. I thought abandoning innocents in pursuit of somebody dangerous was considered dishonorable by her code, but not something she kill somebody over. I know that she would never abandon innocents. But I don;t see why her code requires her to kill someone just for abandoning innocents. I could understand it if you were the one putting them in danger, but in a situation like the burning factory Shepard isn't the one that caused the innocents to die. It was Zaeed's fault.

She says directly that if you cause her to violate her code, she will kill you when she is released from her vow. Now, granted you can just leave her on the ship whenever you intend to do something that she might find questionable, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having her in the first place.

Maybe your Shepard sees it differently, but my renegade Shepard saw things that way. Paragon Shepard on the other hand, she wouldn't sacrifice Samara even if she believed her life was in danger from her. It's an RP thing. Step into the mind of your character and you can create any rationalization you want.

[Internet Kraken]

ScorpSt wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

ScorpSt wrote...

The problem with Samara's code is that you don't know what would be a violation of it, though allowing innocents to come to harm is part of it. If you talk to Samara, you find out that she fought Nhilus, and he only escaped by puting her in a situation that meant persuing him would mean sacirificing innocents. Now think about the X57 mission. Were you to do it again, and stop Balak at the cost of the civilians, Samara would have seen you as violating the code. She would be honor bound to kill you.

That doesn't seem right. I thought abandoning innocents in pursuit of somebody dangerous was considered dishonorable by her code, but not something she kill somebody over. I know that she would never abandon innocents. But I don;t see why her code requires her to kill someone just for abandoning innocents. I could understand it if you were the one putting them in danger, but in a situation like the burning factory Shepard isn't the one that caused the innocents to die. It was Zaeed's fault.

She says directly that if you cause her to violate her code, she will kill you when she is released from her vow. Now, granted you can just leave her on the ship whenever you intend to do something that she might find questionable, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having her in the first place.

Maybe your Shepard sees it differently, but my renegade Shepard saw things that way. Paragon Shepard on the other hand, she wouldn't sacrifice Samara even if she believed her life was in danger from her. It's an RP thing. Step into the mind of your character and you can create any rationalization you want.

Oh I get it. If you brought her along with you then you're forcing her to violate the code.I guess I never really thought about that since I've never brought Samara along on that mission so I was only thinking about what Shepard is doing.

[Collider]

Doesn't do much to excuse people for choosing Morinth. Morinth would kill you just for sadistic satisfaction, Samara would only do it if she thought you were acting immorally.

[InvaderErl]

People that go the Samara will kill me route so let me grab Morinth are quite simply imo being simpletons.



Her biotics are just as strong as her mother's, and Morinth has been evading and outwitting Samara for the last several centuries. Morinth wants (NEEDS) Shepard. She's coming after him she just won't do you the courtesy of telling you. You didn't get rid of a potential threat, you just traded up for a bigger one.

[Sajuro]

Collider wrote...

Doesn't do much to excuse people for choosing Morinth. Morinth would kill you just for sadistic satisfaction, Samara would only do it if she thought you were acting immorally.

Yes, but you might get some Asari booty that way
advantage: Grunt

[Ecael]

Collider wrote...

Doesn't do much to excuse people for choosing Morinth. Morinth would kill you just for sadistic satisfaction, Samara would only do it if she thought you were acting immorally.

Shepard provides targets for her to kill. If anything, Morinth would be motivated to keep Shepard around, even if she knows that romancing Shepard will kill him.

[Goodwood]

Anyone who goes for Morinth over Samara has clearly crossed the Moral Event Horizon and has long since ceased to care about the consequences. She is nothing but a homicidal psychopath, far worse than any human (at least in the ME universe) could possibly become; InvaderErl is correct; all you hardcore Renegades have done is traded some possible looming threat for a much more immediate one, one who will suck your soul at the first opportunity, and whose willpower can also affect the rest of the crew. Has that not occurred to anyone yet?

Nice job breaking it, hero.

In any case, the nature of the game itself kind of deflates the theory of "well, if Samara's back on the ship, she won't care." It seems that every crewmember learns about what Shepard has been up to upon her return to the Normandy, which is both convenient and, actually, quite logical. Briefings and debriefings being a routine part of military operations, old boy.

Modifié par Goodwood, 16 avril 2010 - 03:04 .

[Collider]

Ecael wrote...

Collider wrote...

Doesn't do much to excuse people for choosing Morinth. Morinth would kill you just for sadistic satisfaction, Samara would only do it if she thought you were acting immorally.

Shepard provides targets for her to kill. If anything, Morinth would be motivated to keep Shepard around, even if she knows that romancing Shepard will kill him.

Morinth likes to kill people who are interesting, not just common fodder. If she wanted to keep Shepard around, would she not refuse Shepard for sex?

[Collider]

Goodwood wrote...

Anyone who goes for Morinth over Samara has clearly crossed the Moral Event Horizon and has long since ceased to care about the consequences. She is nothing but a homicidal psychopath, far worse than any human (at least in the ME universe) could possibly become; InvaderErl is correct; all you hardcore Renegades have done is traded some possible looming threat for a much more immediate one, one who will suck your soul at the first opportunity, and whose willpower can also affect the rest of the crew. Has that not occurred to anyone yet?

I agree with this 100%. Morinth will want to kill you just for the pleasure of it, Samara would only do it if you acted against her code. Worst comes to worst, you recruit neither.

[InvaderErl]

Morinth apologizers also need to remember that when we meet her Morinth had just seduced and killed (in a sexual manner at that) a teenager for the kick. She is an utter monster, a great villain but somebody I would NEVER allow on the crew.

[GodWood]

Collider wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Anyone who goes for Morinth over Samara has clearly crossed the Moral Event Horizon and has long since ceased to care about the consequences. She is nothing but a homicidal psychopath, far worse than any human (at least in the ME universe) could possibly become; InvaderErl is correct; all you hardcore Renegades have done is traded some possible looming threat for a much more immediate one, one who will suck your soul at the first opportunity, and whose willpower can also affect the rest of the crew. Has that not occurred to anyone yet?

I agree with this 100%. Morinth will want to kill you just for the pleasure of it, Samara would only do it if you acted against her code. Worst comes to worst, you recruit neither.

My Shepard has acted against Samara's code multiple times, she wanted me dead hence I had to kill her.
Morinth only wants to kill me through sex, this may shock you but it is possible to turn down sex..
I would of killed Morinth off in the suicide mission and just have both problems completely solved but that'd require me to meta-game, thus I'm stuck with her till ME3.

Modifié par GodWood, 16 avril 2010 - 03:13 .

[InvaderErl]

Presumably Morinth should be able to force you to meld with her if you were incapacitated somehow.

[Collider]

GodWood wrote...
My Shepard has acted against Samara's code multiple times, she wanted me dead hence I had to kill her.
Morinth only wants to kill me through sex, this may shock you but it is possible to turn down sex..

Do you not remember the loyalty mission? If you didn't have enough paragon or renegade points, you start getting mind controlled by Morinth.

[InvaderErl]

And I doubt the crew is as strong willed as Shep (if Shep even resisted it).

[Collider]

Another good point, Erl.

[lastpawn]

Ecael wrote...

Collider wrote...

Doesn't do much to excuse people for choosing Morinth. Morinth would kill you just for sadistic satisfaction, Samara would only do it if she thought you were acting immorally.

Shepard provides targets for her to kill. If anything, Morinth would be motivated to keep Shepard around, even if she knows that romancing Shepard will kill him.

I don't follow the logic here. "Morinth loves the hunt." She's a killer who enjoys seduction and intrigue rather than large-scale battles, and Shepard offers the latter.

[RT0wn]

Morinth is a nymphomaniac murderer, but Samara's code isn't exactly the same as Citadel law. I'm creeped out by both of them. Might refuse Samara on my current playthrough and just bypass both of them...

[Ecael]

lastpawn wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Collider wrote...

Doesn't do much to excuse people for choosing Morinth. Morinth would kill you just for sadistic satisfaction, Samara would only do it if she thought you were acting immorally.

Shepard provides targets for her to kill. If anything, Morinth would be motivated to keep Shepard around, even if she knows that romancing Shepard will kill him.

I don't follow the logic here. "Morinth loves the hunt." She's a killer who enjoys seduction and intrigue rather than large-scale battles, and Shepard offers the latter.

That doesn't mean there aren't lone targets that need... err... mind-melding. Shepard can't be the only person Morinth finds attractive.