183 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Regarding usefulness of indomitable: Yesterday I killed a boss (Grand Oak) with archer, dualwield-warrior, twohandedwarrior and S/S-warrior. The Dualwielder didn´t attack once because the enemy was dead before he stood up again.

[traversc]

soteria wrote...

I'll just point out that haste and bloodthirst have no influence on whether S&S or 2h is better at autoattacking, as has been sometimes asserted in this thread. Hasted or not, using Random70's stats for characters, and assuming +20 damage from runes and weapon buffs, the S/S should have ~15% advantage against an unarmored target, and ~4% against an armored target, while autoattacking. Judging off my own characters' armor, I'd put the average enemy at closer to 20 armor than 0, unless someone knows from scripts that visibly armored targets are in fact unarmored.

Yes, but no one is arguing about auto-attacks, right? The argument changes when you throw attack skills into the mix.

As for runes and weapon buffs, it's +35. Flaming weapon is 20, and actually, darkspawn have a WEAKNESS to fire, so it's more than that a lot of the time.

As far as armor, I'm not pulling these numbers out of thin air. I measured these values using scripting. At level 25, normal darkspawn has about (effective) 11 armor. Yellow ranked casters have about 11. Ogres have about 15 (iirc). Some have even less, werewolves have 7.5.

At lower levels, the values are even smaller due to item scaling.

[Phaelducan]

Tirigon wrote...

Regarding usefulness of indomitable: Yesterday I killed a boss (Grand Oak) with archer, dualwield-warrior, twohandedwarrior and S/S-warrior. The Dualwielder didn´t attack once because the enemy was dead before he stood up again.

Yeah... but you can't count those hits as DPS. Clearly you have an advantage over other classes since you are standing.

You need to run the numbers as if you weren't actually able to attack... then we would know how much better S/S is...

Oh, and can you post a video also showing that water is wet?

Modifié par Phaelducan, 20 avril 2010 - 04:57 .

[beancounter501]

On weapon Spell Buffs - Flame Weapons is hard capped at 10. So is Frost Weapons. Telekinetic Weapons is capped at 12.5. If you are seeing higher numbers it is due to a Weakness to Fire/Frost. Perhaps your test character had multiple Flame runes on the weapon to give you the confusing results?



On Armor: the calculation is 70% * AR + Random Number between 0 and 100 * 30% * AR. On Average you should expect to face 85% of a targets armor rating. Meaning a target with an AR of 20 will have an effective AR rating of 17.



I was being a tad sarcastic when I said it was tricky...



But to be honest, you don't even need to use your test script to get what you are after. Simply use Fraps and a stopwatch to record how long it takes to execute the various attacks. We know the auto-attack speed, the only unclear variable is the animation time for the various talents. If you are going to do it for Two Hand and S&S you might as well do it for the Dual Talents and Archery as well. Then you could do something useful like generate a real overall DPS chart.

[soteria]

Well, traversc, you've been implying that haste helps SnS more from some of your first posts, taken in context of what else you've said. And, if I remember right, you wanted people to do these auto-attacking tests with Blood Thirst up. If we're comparing specials side-by-side, Blood Thirst doesn't matter. If we're comparing autoattack, Blood Thirst doesn't matter. So why have you been making a big deal about Blood Thirst and Haste and double Haste? If SnS autoattack is categorically better, and SnS specials are also categorically better, then Haste and Blood Thirst are completely irrelevant to the discussion.



In fact, the only time it does matter is if 2h specials + autoattack do in fact deal more damage than SnS specials + autoattack and you need haste and/or bloodthirst to force the 2h warrior to stop using specials and rely on autoattack. Just saying "S/S does more WAY damage" and leaving a period at the end of that sentence instead of explaining the conditions that it really is (slightly) better just smacks of a dishonest argument.



Any time you want to do that test of yours, feel free. If I test anything I'm going to go up against the High Dragon or Flemeth or Ser Cauthrien for the test, and I think most of us know how that's going to end. If you wanted to make a useful script, you'd make some sort of damage meter to make damage-gathering in realistic situations easier, not a punching bag. This isn't WoW, so creating situations where you can just "stand and cast" to find relative dps in a straight dps race isn't relevant. Heck, it isn't even hugely relevant in WoW, contrary to popular belief.

[traversc]

beancounter501 wrote...

On weapon Spell Buffs - Flame Weapons is hard capped at 10. So is Frost Weapons. Telekinetic Weapons is capped at 12.5. If you are seeing higher numbers it is due to a Weakness to Fire/Frost. Perhaps your test character had multiple Flame runes on the weapon to give you the confusing results?

No it's not.  It's capped at 20.  The reason being, flame weapon gets 2 power per point.  It says so right in the XLS file and in the comments section.  Also, simple tests in game show this to be true. 

On Armor: the calculation is 70% * AR + Random Number between 0 and 100 * 30% * AR. On Average you should expect to face 85% of a targets armor rating. Meaning a target with an AR of 20 will have an effective AR rating of 17.

Yes, that's what I meant by "effective armor"

But to be honest, you don't even need to use your test script to get what you are after. Simply use Fraps and a stopwatch to record how long it takes to execute the various attacks. We know the auto-attack speed, the only unclear variable is the animation time for the various talents. If you are going to do it for Two Hand and S&S you might as well do it for the Dual Talents and Archery as well. Then you could do something useful like generate a real overall DPS chart.

I don't believe it's that simple.  For one, as R70 said, you can "animation cancel" which means either bigger DPS if you do it right, or worse DPS is you do it wrong (e.g. cancel before the damage event).  

Secondly, it's incredibly difficult to time fast events accurately.  The entire animation is 2000-3000 ms... but human reaction time is on the order of 200-300 ms.  (Thus, there would be large error nvolved).  Then there's the issue of whether or not you can actually PERCIEVE when the animation actually begins and finishes and when the next one starts.  It's not a black and white transition between animations.  It's fluid completely fluid, and so its harder to say where the transition is.   

Modifié par traversc, 20 avril 2010 - 05:55 .

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...

On weapon Spell Buffs - Flame Weapons is hard capped at 10. So is Frost Weapons. Telekinetic Weapons is capped at 12.5. If you are seeing higher numbers it is due to a Weakness to Fire/Frost. Perhaps your test character had multiple Flame runes on the weapon to give you the confusing results?

Did you verify that hard cap in script? I've seen that 10 number posted before but I'm not entirely certain it's accurate. I haven't run a full party in a while,(thus no flame weapon) but I'm almost positive that I've seen flame floats in the 20's vs. non-hexed opponents before. Darkspawn & Undead have -15% and -25% fire resistance respectively but that shouldn't be enough to account for the difference.

BTW, thx for checking on Shattering Blows. Surely, that will be fixed in the next patch, yes?

@Traversc
Interesting info on the armor values. Got any more?

[traversc]

soteria wrote...

And, if I remember right, you wanted people to do these auto-attacking tests with Blood Thirst up. If we're comparing specials side-by-side, Blood Thirst doesn't matter....

If we're comparing autoattack, Blood Thirst doesn't matter. So why have you been making a big deal about Blood Thirst and Haste and double Haste? If SnS autoattack is categorically better, and SnS specials are also categorically better, then Haste and Blood Thirst are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Not quite.  This isn't even true in a general mathematical sense.  What I mean is: the overall average is not the sum of the averages.  Now this may seem like an obvious statement, but hold on: this also implies that, even if A is categorically worse than B in EVERY way, A can STILL be better than B overall. 

 I believe S/S has better talents, but of course you disagree. and it's not something that can be easily proved either way.  That's why Blood Thirst is an important factor.  In other words, I don't need to prove 2H is
categorically worse than S/S.  I just need to prove that S/S is better overall.  But of course, it helps that we already agreed S/S does more atuo-attack DPS. 

Blood Thirst is assumed because BOTH 2H and S/S will have it regardless,
if they want to be considered optimized.  See my post here: http://social.biowar...872/3#2341503.  Keep in mind this doesn't even include any other +damage buffs, such as flaming weapon, SoC, etc. 

TLDR: It matters because 2H (according to you, even) gets more benefit from talents.  Let's say 2H gets 50% total damage from talents, whereas S/S gets only 20% total damage from talents.  Then:

modified DPS(2H) = 0.5 + 0.5*1.25 = 1.125
modified DPS(S/S) = 0.2 + 0.8*1.25 = 1.200

So you can see, the weapon style that benefits more from talents benefits less (relatively speaking) from Blood Thirst.  I also don't believe it's a dishonest argument, because, as stated, both 2H and S/S should be using it. 

If I test anything I'm going to go up against the High Dragon or Flemeth or Ser Cauthrien for the test, and I think most of us know how that's going to end. If you wanted to make a useful script, you'd make some sort of damage meter to make damage-gathering in realistic situations easier, not a punching bag. This isn't WoW, so creating situations where you can just "stand and cast" to find relative dps in a straight dps race isn't relevant. Heck, it isn't even hugely relevant in WoW, contrary to popular belief.

What I'm asking for is not a test in a vacuum like you seem to think.  As I've stated, you will need to give the test meaning by estimating parameters such as indomitable.  That is up to you. 

On the other hand, what I am asking for WILL help elucidate the "animation length" parameter and the "burst  cancel" parameter.  And as I said, I won't do it, because I'll be acussed of bias.  If you don't care to figure out game mechanics, that's fine, but just say so.  

[traversc]

Random70 wrote...

Interesting info on the armor values. Got any more?

What exactly are you looking for?  Basically, I just wrote a script that spawns a creature and then gets the armor property.  

As for flaming weapon, it is definitely capped at 20.  You can confirm this in game, by code, or by reading the developer comments. 

[beancounter501]

@ Random - It is hard capped in the script. Prehaps the monster you were fighting had 100% Fire Weakness?



case ABILITY_SPELL_FLAMING_WEAPONS:

{

// determine power

float fPower = MaxF(1.0,MinF((GetCreatureSpellPower(stEvent.oCaster) / 7.5f), 10.0f));

eEffects[0] = EffectEnchantment(ENCHANTMENT_FIRE, FloatToInt(fPower));

bPartywide = TRUE;



break;

}

[Tirigon]

beancounter501 wrote...

@ Random - It is hard capped in the script. Prehaps the monster you were fighting had 100% Fire Weakness?

case ABILITY_SPELL_FLAMING_WEAPONS:
{
// determine power
float fPower = MaxF(1.0,MinF((GetCreatureSpellPower(stEvent.oCaster) / 7.5f), 10.0f));
eEffects[0] = EffectEnchantment(ENCHANTMENT_FIRE, FloatToInt(fPower));
bPartywide = TRUE;

break;
}

Then the script is bugged.

Flaming weapons is 2 time as strong as frost weapons - which are indeed capped at 10.

[traversc]

beancounter501 wrote...

@ Random - It is hard capped in the script. Prehaps the monster you were fighting had 100% Fire Weakness?

case ABILITY_SPELL_FLAMING_WEAPONS:
{
// determine power
float fPower = MaxF(1.0,MinF((GetCreatureSpellPower(stEvent.oCaster) / 7.5f), 10.0f));
eEffects[0] = EffectEnchantment(ENCHANTMENT_FIRE, FloatToInt(fPower));
bPartywide = TRUE;

break;
}

BC: You're not listening lol.  YOu are only looking at the script very superficially.  You need to follow the definitions.  Specifically, ENCHANTMENT_FIRE provides 2 damage per power.  Much like many item properties provide more than 1 per power.  You will have to find the relevent XLS file, I don't remember what it's called off-hand.  

[Random70]

traversc wrote...
What exactly are you looking for?  Basically, I just wrote a script that spawns a creature and then gets the armor property.  

Just wondering how much data you've collected and if you would be willing to post a list somewhere. I've long suspected that Armor Pen. is overblown but I've had no data to confirm. It's obvious that High Dragons & Elite Golems have big AC (35+?) with Revenants less so but still noticable (20-25?). Nobody else seems to have AC worth mentioning - not even those Silverite equipped L19 guys @ Howe's estate.

OTOH, when running a party I usually set Morrigan's tactics as Self: Any -> Frost and Enemy has high AC -> Telekinetic. In pracice, she fires TK with great regularity which strikes me as erroneous in most instances

[traversc]

Random70 wrote...

traversc wrote...
What exactly are you looking for?  Basically, I just wrote a script that spawns a creature and then gets the armor property.  

Just wondering how much data you've collected and if you would be willing to post a list somewhere. I've long suspected that Armor Pen. is overblown but I've had no data to confirm. It's obvious that High Dragons & Elite Golems have big AC (35+?) with Revenants less so but still noticable (20-25?). Nobody else seems to have AC worth mentioning - not even those Silverite equipped L19 guys @ Howe's estate.

OTOH, when running a party I usually set Morrigan's tactics as Self: Any -> Frost and Enemy has high AC -> Telekinetic. In pracice, she fires TK with great regularity which strikes me as erroneous in most instances

At level 25, Howe's guards have 9.5 armor.  Cauthrien's guards have 10 armor.  So yeah, you are getting shafted with TK weapon.  The condition for armor is for item type, not AC.  So even though they're wearing heavy armor, it doesn't make any difference at all.  

I'm not sure how this works for non-humanoids though. 

[beancounter501]

Hmm, well that is poor programming by Bioware. The 2da is itemprps. According to the script enchantment_h the 2da lookup value for Enchantment_Fire is 3000. Row 3000 of that 2da does indeed provide 2 points of dmg per power. Probably a bug since Flaming Weapons can provide more dmg there 4 grand master runes! But at least the bug is in the players favor this time.



But anyway, you are correct in can go up to 20 points of dmg on Flame Weapons.



And, I would second Random - it would be interesting to see the Armor Rating of various critters. I have never really looked into that area that much. May have to do that.

[soteria]

Traversc, I say asking Blood Thirst to be included is a dishonest stance because the initial question that sparked the argument was whether 2h or S&S did more damage. But now, what you're saying is that it has to be an opimized group. I don't use two mages (according to you, sub-optimal) or blood thirst (so I'm bad, according to you) or even haste. As I mentioned above, I don't put damage runes on every weapon, or use flaming weapons all the time. So when you repeatedly say that 3 gm damage runes and blood thirst and flaming weapons need to be included in every calculation, I have to roll my eyes. Since when did optional DLC content that you have to pay for become mandatory?



I'm saying your initial stance was dishonest because you're making a number of assumptions about the makeup of the group, when originally you just said that 2h was worse at higher levels "as an empirical fact." Later you added that you "have" to include Blood Thirst. Why do I "have" to include a $15 talent that I might not have picked up or even use? I don't use potions or external sources of healing, so the health drain is a no-go for me.

I believe S/S has better talents, but of course you disagree. and it's not something that can be easily proved either way...

I'll pull a snippet from earlier:

But the fact is, S/S talents still wipe the floor with 2H talents.

I don't know about you, but when someone says "wipe the floor with" I assume they mean "clearly superior." If you told me that Silva mopped the floor with his opponent, I wouldn't expect it to be a fight that came down to a difficult and close decision for the judges. So how do you go from that second quote to "it's hard to prove either way"?



This is why I get frustrated trying to talk to you: you state hyperbole as fact, are merciless in regards to other people's errors, and pretend yours never happened (and accuse me of being childish when I point them out, despite your own enumeration of my mistakes). I appreciate that you've toned it down in the last couple pages, but it doesn't erase the extremely frustrating ones prior.

[soteria]

Hmm, well that is poor programming by Bioware. The 2da is itemprps. According to the script enchantment_h the 2da lookup value for Enchantment_Fire is 3000. Row 3000 of that 2da does indeed provide 2 points of dmg per power. Probably a bug since Flaming Weapons can provide more dmg there 4 grand master runes! But at least the bug is in the players favor this time.



But anyway, you are correct in can go up to 20 points of dmg on Flame Weapons.



And, I would second Random - it would be interesting to see the Armor Rating of various critters. I have never really looked into that area that much. May have to do that.

I remember a discussion about this some time ago in which it was asserted (by me, I think) that both flaming and frost weapons both did the same damage. Flaming does twice the damage, but I think I remember someone saying that the scripts for the two spells are identical. Maybe they were wrong. I've never seen +20 damage from flaming weapons until Awakening... but then, I don't pay much attention to the floating numbers.



For armor, I guess I've just been assuming that monsters have the same armor you would expect them to have just based on looks. At the end of origins, I would expect 15-25 armor for medium, 25-35 for heavy, and 30-40 for massive armor.

[traversc]

Traversc, I say asking Blood Thirst to be included is a dishonest stance because the initial question that sparked the argument was whether 2h or S&S did more damage. But now, what you're saying is that it has to be an opimized group. I don't use two mages (according to you, sub-optimal) or blood thirst (so I'm bad, according to you) or even haste. As I mentioned above, I don't put damage runes on every weapon, or use flaming weapons all the time. So when you repeatedly say that 3 gm damage runes and blood thirst and flaming weapons need to be included in every calculation, I have to roll my eyes. Since when did optional DLC content that you have to pay for become mandatory?



I'm saying your initial stance was dishonest because you're making a number of assumptions about the makeup of the group, when originally you just said that 2h was worse at higher levels "as an empirical fact." Later you added that you "have" to include Blood Thirst. Why do I "have" to include a $15 talent that I might not have picked up or even use? I don't use potions or external sources of healing, so the health drain is a no-go for me.

You don't *have to* do anything, much less use BT. You can play with tier 1 weapons and put all your points into magic. As far as optimality, yes I'll bite (again): if you don't use BT as a warrior, your build is suboptimal. But of course, we know you don't need anywhere NEAR optimal builds to wipe the floor with darkspawn on nightmare. Note that I'm not saying you're bad for using a build that is not 100% perfectly optimal.





I'm also not saying what the group make up *has to* be. I stated that S/S benefits more from party buffs as an argument in favor of S/S. Do you disagree?

I don't know about you, but when someone says "wipe the floor with" I assume they mean "clearly superior." If you told me that Silva mopped the floor with his opponent, I wouldn't expect it to be a fight that came down to a difficult and close decision for the judges. So how do you go from that second quote to "it's hard to prove either way"?



This is why I get frustrated trying to talk to you: you state hyperbole as fact, are merciless in regards to other people's errors, and pretend yours never happened (and accuse me of being childish when I point them out, despite your own enumeration of my mistakes). I appreciate that you've toned it down in the last couple pages, but it doesn't erase the extremely frustrating ones prior.

Look: fine, it was a hyperbole. In my defense, I was only fighting fire with fire. Do I really need to quote the "ur bad" "2H is WAY better, idiot" "lol nub do u even play this game" type posts directed towards me? Even your posts had that kind of tone, at times.



I find the issue sort of irrelevant at this point, so can we get drop it now?

[Random70]

soteria wrote...
For armor, I guess I've just been assuming that monsters have the same armor you would expect them to have just based on looks. At the end of origins, I would expect 15-25 armor for medium, 25-35 for heavy, and 30-40 for massive armor.

For the most part, it's not even close. I've soloed several (mostly) DEX Rogues who end up with Armor Pen in the 12-14 range. Other than the few examples I listed previously you never see any damage reduction from enemy AC. As an example, when soloing, the game dumps 3 Ash Wraiths into your party at the Gauntlet bridge puzzle. Their 'on screen' AC @ L18 is 16. Effective AC would then be 13-14 (depending on how the game rounds) meaning Ash Wraiths have no protection vs. my DEX Rogue.

As an aside, Ash Wraiths will trip Morrigan's 'high AC' tactic.

Modifié par Random70, 20 avril 2010 - 08:53 .

[beancounter501]

After checking some calculations on Auto Attack I think S&S & 2 Hand are much close then people are guessing.



First, you can not rely on the Character screen to get your dmg per hit. That calculation is based swing times, which we do not want to use.



Second, there are lots of numbers below - you have been warned!



Third, I excluded Criticals & Armor Pen.



Fourth, feel free to point out any errors I made.



Base Weapon

For the S&S: Veshialle

Dmg: 9.6

Bonus: +2 Str, +2 Nature Dmg



For the 2 Hand: Chasined Great Maul

Dmg: 14.4

Bonus: +5 Dmg



Attributes:

(I used the attibutes from Random70s character. The Strength of a S&S will always be lower then a 2 hand because of points need in Dex to score Shield Mastery - which is 26 Dex

S&S Str: 93 (Includes the Veshialle Bonus)

2 Hand: 103



Dmg from Attributes:

S&S: 83 * .625 * 1.1 = 57.06 dmg per hit from Attributes

2 Hand: 93 * .625 * 1.25 = 72.65 dmg per hit from Attributes



Dmg Extras/Weapon

Both Character Would get the following bonus dmg:

Bravery +1, Berserker +8, Level Bonus + 10, 3xGrand Master Runes +15, Flame Weapons +20 = 54 pts



S&S Only: +2 Nature Dmg from Veshialle = +2 + 54 = 56 Total

2 Hand Only: Chasind Great Maul +5, Indomitable +1, Powerful Swings +5 = 11 + 54 = 65 Total



Total Dmg per Regular Hit:



SS: Base Weapon 9.6 + Str Mod 57.06 + Talents/Runes/Buffs + 56 = 122.66 per hit

2 Hand: Base Weapon 14.4 + Str Mod 72.65 + Talents/Runes/Buffs + 65 = 152.05



Swing Speed:

S&S: 2.0 - .1 Axe Modifier = 1.9

2 Hand: Base 2.5 + .1 Maul Modifier = 2.6



Over 20 Seconds

S&S: 20/1.9 = 10.53 Swings * 122.66 Per Hit = 1,291 or 64.58 DPS

2 Hand: 20/2.6 = 7.69 Swings * 152.05 Per Hit = 1,169 or 58.46 DPS



Fairly close. Oh course both suck when compared to a Rogue in Single Target DPS when Auto Attacking!

And that was with some really heavy buffs!



Comparing that to my earlier calculations on Talent usage, A two hand warrior better be using his talents!

[traversc]

Nice, BC. A few thoughts:



-Attributes are definitely are not accurate. First, At lvl 25, you have 82 spendable attributes includ +5 from tomes. Also, you are forgetting 1) fade bonuses 2) item bonuses. Fade bonuses mean the difference in strength is actually only ~5-ish. I also have a list of ideal-ish gear for warriors, somewhere on my CPU. I'll get around to posting it if you want.



-For completeness sake, just include critical damage. It isn't too much more trouble.



-Mauls, I believe are 2.55, not 2.6

[Hulk Hsieh]

While I accept haste is what you should always use when making a melee DPS, BT is from WK which costs another $7. I don't think it should be considered a norm since I doubt half of DA:O players buy it.

[beancounter501]

traversc wrote...

Random70 wrote...

traversc wrote...
What exactly are you looking for?  Basically, I just wrote a script that spawns a creature and then gets the armor property.  

Just wondering how much data you've collected and if you would be willing to post a list somewhere. I've long suspected that Armor Pen. is overblown but I've had no data to confirm. It's obvious that High Dragons & Elite Golems have big AC (35+?) with Revenants less so but still noticable (20-25?). Nobody else seems to have AC worth mentioning - not even those Silverite equipped L19 guys @ Howe's estate.

OTOH, when running a party I usually set Morrigan's tactics as Self: Any -> Frost and Enemy has high AC -> Telekinetic. In pracice, she fires TK with great regularity which strikes me as erroneous in most instances

At level 25, Howe's guards have 9.5 armor.  Cauthrien's guards have 10 armor.  So yeah, you are getting shafted with TK weapon.  The condition for armor is for item type, not AC.  So even though they're wearing heavy armor, it doesn't make any difference at all.  

I'm not sure how this works for non-humanoids though. 

Trav - Something is wrong with your testing method.  I modifed combat_h to post the Targets Armor to the debug log and they can back with different numbers.  Perhaps the On Spawn Script you are using does not Auto-Balance the target correctly?  I seem to remember seeing Armor in one of the balance 2da.  In my tests I actually restored various saves and tested it out with the simple code below. 

But first let me say that Random70 estimates are pretty spot on!  Also, I am pretty sure the Armor rating varies depending on your level.

Level 11 - Random Encounter in Denerium with the Revernant & Some Rogues:
Rogue Melee: 8.30
Revernant: 21.75

Level 17 - Anvil of the Void
Encased Stone Golem in Gas Trap Room: 28

Level 21 - Howes Estate
High Guard Standing Near Howe: 14.59
Howe: 15.75

Level 21 - Howes Estate
Ranged Archer: 21
Ser Cauthorn: 21.25 - I was expecting higher there!

Level 23 - Darkspwan Attack in Denerium
Orge Grunt (Not a Yellow): 15.62
Orge_Default(Yellow): 20.625

And the highest so far that I have seen:

High Dragon: 33.375

I was kind of expecting some higher values here, but it is what it is.  Also, a AP of 14 would probably eliminate the vast majority of the armor in the game.  Also, I can post others if people are interested.  Just let me know what.


Warning Code Following!
If anyone is interested in testing it yourself you just need to add three lines to combat_h at line 362:
PrintToLog("Attacker: " + ToString(oAttacker));
PrintToLog("Target: " + ToString(oTarget));
PrintToLog("Armor: " + ToString(GetCreatureProperty(oTarget,PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_ARMOR)));

Then compile talent_singletarget.  Anytime you do a single target attack you will get results posted.  You can also modify the code to print out all kinds of other interesting stuff.

[beancounter501]

traversc wrote...

Nice, BC. A few thoughts:

-Attributes are definitely are not accurate. First, At lvl 25, you have 82 spendable attributes includ +5 from tomes. Also, you are forgetting 1) fade bonuses 2) item bonuses. Fade bonuses mean the difference in strength is actually only ~5-ish. I also have a list of ideal-ish gear for warriors, somewhere on my CPU. I'll get around to posting it if you want.

-For completeness sake, just include critical damage. It isn't too much more trouble.

-Mauls, I believe are 2.55, not 2.6

Thanks, I will add in Criticals sometime tomorrow.  But if anything it will skew more in favor of S&S since he has higher crit rate with Veshaille.  The Chasind Maul is  teriible in that regard.  Almost tempted to see what an all talent spam with precise striking and Meatshear Axe would do.  Give you a crit rate of around 25%

[Random70]

Damn nice job on the numbers, BC!

These are 'effective' AC values, yes?