142 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

I honestly think you guys are underestimating the effect these events could have on her. Remember, while she looks like a grown adult, she's the asari equivalent of a teenager, like 13-15 years old. She's also not the most socially adept person. I get the feeling most people look at the comic books and think "No normal person would get "derailed" so much!"



But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?



I think the issue is that you're looking for a reason to dislike her or hate her. Everything that happened legitimately justifies her new persona, which she even drops for a moment when you ask her what happened to her. If you don't like her because you don't like her, that's fine. But don't claim that there's no good reason for her behavior, and then when a good reason is presented, dismiss it because you think it's inadequate.

[Nightwriter]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I honestly think you guys are underestimating the effect these events could have on her. Remember, while she looks like a grown adult, she's the asari equivalent of a teenager, like 13-15 years old. She's also not the most socially adept person. I get the feeling most people look at the comic books and think "No normal person would get "derailed" so much!"

But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

I think the issue is that you're looking for a reason to dislike her or hate her. Everything that happened legitimately justifies her new persona, which she even drops for a moment when you ask her what happened to her. If you don't like her because you don't like her, that's fine. But don't claim that there's no good reason for her behavior, and then when a good reason is presented, dismiss it because you think it's inadequate.

So... we shouldn't expect as much out of her as we would a normal person, I think is what you're saying?

Also I find it disturbing that by your explanation I seem to have committed statutory rape.

And I don't look for reasons to dislike Liara! She's adorable. Anyway jlb likes her. That's reason enough for me.

[Marta Rio]

RiouHotaru wrote...
I honestly think you guys are underestimating the effect these events could have on her. Remember, while she looks like a grown adult, she's the asari equivalent of a teenager, like 13-15 years old. She's also not the most socially adept person. I get the feeling most people look at the comic books and think "No normal person would get "derailed" so much!"

That's a fair assessment.  I think the complaint is that we didn't actually see the change (in the game or the comics), so it's hard to follow her character's progression. 

But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

It's not so much that she was friends with him, and he did something to ****** her off.  It's that the comic doesn't show us how their friendship develops.  To me, it came across that Feron was just someone that she had to work with, whom she didn't really trust, and then who made her angry by lying about who he was really working for.  If you can give me an example of what indicated to you that they were friends, then maybe that would help?  I just didn't see it.

I think the issue is that you're looking for a reason to dislike her or hate her. Everything that happened legitimately justifies her new persona, which she even drops for a moment when you ask her what happened to her. If you don't like her because you don't like her, that's fine. But don't claim that there's no good reason for her behavior, and then when a good reason is presented, dismiss it because you think it's inadequate.

I think the issue is the opposite.  I really wanted to find out why she changed so much, so I could understand where she was coming from, and thus excuse her cold behavior in ME2.  I wanted a good explanation so I could like her more, not less.  I just happen to think that the comics didn't provide it.

Modifié par Marta Rio, 16 avril 2010 - 06:44 .

[jlb524]

The Redemption storyline was just as crappy and contrived as the rest of ME2 story. I wouldn't expect any better.

[TMA LIVE]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I honestly think you guys are underestimating the effect these events could have on her. Remember, while she looks like a grown adult, she's the asari equivalent of a teenager, like 13-15 years old. She's also not the most socially adept person. I get the feeling most people look at the comic books and think "No normal person would get "derailed" so much!"

But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

I think the issue is that you're looking for a reason to dislike her or hate her. Everything that happened legitimately justifies her new persona, which she even drops for a moment when you ask her what happened to her. If you don't like her because you don't like her, that's fine. But don't claim that there's no good reason for her behavior, and then when a good reason is presented, dismiss it because you think it's inadequate.

You say that, but even in the comics, her character does 180's from what her character was in the first game. In the first game, she's a shy scientist that's very odd, yet is attracted to you for no reason. In the comic, 2 months later, she's saying one liners, acts childish, has anger issues, and wants to beats the **** out of people and destory things (and don't say it's because she lost someone she loved, because this character is also based on "no romance" shepard). This character rapidly changes character every time we see her. Now if you think that's all exampled, and you're ok with everything, then whatever. But I think it's bull****.

I'm not saying this because "I hate her". I'm actually saying this from a guy that hates "what she has become", and feels like her character is beyond the point of no return. I saying this as a guy that wants a reason why she became this way that I can believe, so I can at least feel like her bribing me to help her kill someone has justifiable reasons. Or how she wants me to break the law hacking stuff like some random goon on the street. And when I look at this comic as the reason for everything, and then look at the hidden DLC dialogue, I feel like everything Liara is telling me is garbage without a real good reason behind it.

[Nightwriter]

TMA LIVE wrote...

You say that, but even in the comics, her character does 180's from what her character was in the first game. In the first game, she's a shy scientist that's very odd, yet is attracted to you for no reason. In the comic, 2 months later, she's saying one liners, acts childish, has anger issues, and wants to beats the **** out of people and destory things (and don't say it's because she lost someone she loved, because this character is also based on "no romance" shepard). This character rapidly changes character every time we see her. Now if you think that's all exampled, and you're ok with everything, then whatever. But I think it's bull****.

I'm not saying this because "I hate her". I'm actually saying this from a guy that hates "what she has become", and feels like her character is beyond the point of no return. I saying this as a guy that wants a reason why she became this way that I can believe, so I can at least feel like her bribing me to help her kill someone has justifiable reasons. Or how she wants me to break the law hacking stuff like some random goon on the street. And when I look at this comic as the reason for everything, and then look at the hidden DLC dialogue, I feel like everything Liara is telling me is garbage without a real good reason behind it.

... Maybe Benezia's consciousness left her body upon death and took possession of Liara?

Which is why she says, "Have you ever faced an asari commando unit? Few humans have" when she's threatening that guy?

Oh, oh, and now Liara and Benezia are both fighting for control, making Liara kiss you one minute and pull away the next, and change direction and mood on a dime!

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

... Maybe Benezia's consciousness left her body upon death and took possession of Liara?

Which is why she says, "Have you ever faced an asari commando unit? Few humans have" when she's threatening that guy?

Oh, oh, and now Liara and Benezia are both fighting for control, making Liara kiss you one minute and pull away the next, and change direction and mood on a dime!

That makes as much sense as most stuff I've heard. 

[KendallX23]

I say Liara suffers from multiple personality disorder....in ME3 she will be just as crazy as Jack and will attempt to kill Reapers with her mushroom head...

All in all i really don't know what to say...she seems fine to me....she's the same as i imagined her

[jlb524]

KendallX23 wrote...

I say Liara suffers from multiple personality disorder....in ME3 she will be just as crazy as Jack and will attempt to kill Reapers with her mushroom head...
All in all i really don't know what to say...she seems fine to me....she's the same as i imagined her

Well, you imagine her with multiple personality disorder so of course she's the same to you.  She couldn't possibly ever be different (unless she maintains just one personality).

[Archereon]

its obvious what really happened to Liara. Harbinger indoctrinated her slightly through one of his collector drones so she'd be completely distracted from "saving the galaxy."

[KendallX23]

i don't imagine her with that disorder..but how else would u describe her personality changes if u would want to find a lore reason ?

[Nozybidaj]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Yeah, and then you read the comic, only to discover those answers are very lame. She talks about how "You weren't there! You'd didn't know what he did!" and start thinking she went through hell. But then you read the comics, and all the Shadow Broker did was send Merc's after her (which she kills in one or two pages), tries to sell Shepard's body to the Collectors, did a Star Wars ship fight, takes Feron, and that's it. The only thing worth noting is that Liara left Feron behind to save Shepard's body, and she think's she owes him. That's understandable... but becoming a cold-hearted, murdering information broker???

Exactly...you think she went through hell, but all that happened is that she left Feron behind...a guy who, by her own admission, she wanted to kill up untill 5 minutes prior.

She finds out Shepard has been revived and her reaction: a shallow hug, and a peck on the lips (through your helmet) if you romanced her. This is a guy you've thought dead for 2 years, who "died" trying to save you and your shipmates, who is the galaxies only hope to stop the total genocide of the entire galaxy, and you can't go with him because the Shadow Broker beat down and possibly killed one of his own agents?

Mac Walters is like a totally seriously serious writer and the whole Liara story line is like a totally dark and seriously amped up story.  It was possibly the best love story ever told.

[jlb524]

KendallX23 wrote...

i don't imagine her with that disorder..but how else would u describe her personality changes if u would want to find a lore reason ?

I don't know...your guess is as good as mine and any body else's.  This is what happens when you try to drastically change a character and shove this in a short 10 minute cameo.

[DPSSOC]

Nightwriter wrote...

... Maybe Benezia's consciousness left her body upon death and took possession of Liara?

Which is why she says, "Have you ever faced an asari commando unit? Few humans have" when she's threatening that guy?

Oh, oh, and now Liara and Benezia are both fighting for control, making Liara kiss you one minute and pull away the next, and change direction and mood on a dime!

Or maybe it's just Asari PMS but unlike humans it lasts for years.

In all seriousness I think people are forgetting something; Liara's never been a strong person.  Think about it most Asari her age run off and become mercs, strippers, adventurers, etc they seek out excitement.  Liara on the other hand chose to hide from the galaxy in Prothean dig sites.  Now Shepard's death (LI or not Shepard was a big part of her life at the time) would have shaken her, a lot, and her dealing with that explains her erratic behaviour in the comic (haven't read it myself but it's been mentioned).  Now on top of that she had to abandon Feron and her guilt over that explains her obsession with the Shadow Broker.  In short she was hit with a lot of stuff, in fairly rapid succession (Death of her mother, revelation of the Reapers, death of Shepard, recovery of Shepard, abandonment of Feron), that she was never prepared to deal with, and surprise she's not handling it well.  Now because she's not strong, and knows she's not, she's attempting to emulate those she views as strong, mainly her mother.

Note my statement that Liara is not strong is a matter of personal opinion and not meant as an attack on the character.

[TMA LIVE]

Archereon wrote...

its obvious what really happened to Liara. Harbinger indoctrinated her slightly through one of his collector drones so she'd be completely distracted from "saving the galaxy."

I wish, man, I wish. Or that she's become a slave, and can't talk about the specifics thoughout being zapped. But nope, she's just embracing her inner psycho.

[OldMan91]

I honestly think you guys are underestimating the effect these events could have on her. Remember, while she looks like a grown adult, she's the asari equivalent of a teenager, like 13-15 years old.

Actually she clearly states in ME1 that she's "barely an adult", which would put her from age 18-20.

But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

If my friends did what Feron did, they would stop being friends. When did you get the impression that Feron and Liara actually had a developed friendship? I didn't see it. On the contrary, what I saw was tension, distrust and dislike, very unfriendly-like traits.

I think the issue is that you're looking for a reason to dislike her or hate her.

No, not really. I'm a Liara fan, and I can accept that she's become hardened from her time in the Terminus Systems (like Garrus), but the comic presents a very weak justification for that change.

But don't claim that there's no good reason for her behavior, and then
when a good reason is presented, dismiss it because you think it's
inadequate.

I claim that there's no good reason for her behaviour, and the reason given in the comic was insufficient. There, i've claimed it.

Modifié par OldMan91, 16 avril 2010 - 07:20 .

[Chuvvy]

Lost makes more sense then this comic.

[Nozybidaj]

RiouHotaru wrote...
But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

I met this guy once when I was on a vacation.  The whole three days I knew him he acted like a complete jerk and lied to me about everything.  Then something bad happened to him.  When my wife wanted me to go back home with her at the end of the week I totally told her i couldn't go I had to go get revenge for this random jerk we had met.

[bjdbwea]

They've certainly done their best to trash the ME 1 characters. Liara got it worst though. We suspect that they even "had" to cut content because they didn't want to spoil the comics. Just... there was nothing to spoil to begin with. The comics don't explain anything at all, nor have they big revelations that would explain her behaviour. Bad writing in the game, bad writing in the comics. You are not alone with your disappointment.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 avril 2010 - 07:25 .

[TMA LIVE]

Nozybidaj wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

I met this guy once when I was on a vacation.  The whole three days I knew him he acted like a complete jerk and lied to me about everything.  Then something bad happened to him.  When my wife wanted me to go back home with her at the end of the week I totally told her i couldn't go I had to go get revenge for this random jerk we had met.

As well as become a cold-blooded murderer, and build your own broker business in order to avenge this guy.

[Nozybidaj]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
But Liara isn't a "normal" person. I'm not even a Liara fan myself (mostly indifferent, she had her ups and downs) and I see quite clearly that what happened to her in Redemption quite neatly explains her change in behavior. After all, even if she didn't like Feron, that doesn't mean he wasn't ever NOT her friend. Ever had moments where you disliked or even hated your own friends?

I met this guy once when I was on a vacation.  The whole three days I knew him he acted like a complete jerk and lied to me about everything.  Then something bad happened to him.  When my wife wanted me to go back home with her at the end of the week I totally told her i couldn't go I had to go get revenge for this random jerk we had met.

As well as become a cold-blooded murderer, and build your own broker business in order to avenge this guy.

Yeah I had forgotten that part, thanks.   My life is totally dark and amped up now.

[Nightwriter]

DPSSOC wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

... Maybe Benezia's consciousness left her body upon death and took possession of Liara?

Which is why she says, "Have you ever faced an asari commando unit? Few humans have" when she's threatening that guy?

Oh, oh, and now Liara and Benezia are both fighting for control, making Liara kiss you one minute and pull away the next, and change direction and mood on a dime!

Or maybe it's just Asari PMS but unlike humans it lasts for years.

In all seriousness I think people are forgetting something; Liara's never been a strong person.  Think about it most Asari her age run off and become mercs, strippers, adventurers, etc they seek out excitement.  Liara on the other hand chose to hide from the galaxy in Prothean dig sites.  Now Shepard's death (LI or not Shepard was a big part of her life at the time) would have shaken her, a lot, and her dealing with that explains her erratic behaviour in the comic (haven't read it myself but it's been mentioned).  Now on top of that she had to abandon Feron and her guilt over that explains her obsession with the Shadow Broker.  In short she was hit with a lot of stuff, in fairly rapid succession (Death of her mother, revelation of the Reapers, death of Shepard, recovery of Shepard, abandonment of Feron), that she was never prepared to deal with, and surprise she's not handling it well.  Now because she's not strong, and knows she's not, she's attempting to emulate those she views as strong, mainly her mother.

Note my statement that Liara is not strong is a matter of personal opinion and not meant as an attack on the character.

Seems like every explanation I hear about this involves someone saying we must remember Liara is a weak character.   I dunno whether that's true or applicable or not. I'm no Liara expert.

What I think we should remember is that, regardless of whether you romanced Liara or not, she fell for you. She loves you. She fell for Shepard, male or female, and had a crush on you from the beginning - you were important to her whether you felt the same way or not. 

[eternalnightmare13]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Everything that's been done with Liara since ME1 has been to the detriment of the character.

Agreed.  It would've made a helluva lot more sense for her to be on Illos doing research on the Protheans vs Reapers.  She should've been tied into the plot of the Collectors being repurposed Protheans.  Not this half assed plot of suddenly being a 'info broker' for no apparent reason.

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

Seems like every explanation I hear about this involves someone saying we must remember Liara is a weak character.   I dunno whether that's true or applicable or not. I'm no Liara expert.

She's not weak.  She didn't hide from the galaxy by becoming an archeologist.  She did it b/c that was her passion, and she went against her mother's desires while doing this.  That seems strong to me.

[Nozybidaj]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Everything that's been done with Liara since ME1 has been to the detriment of the character.

Agreed.  It would've made a helluva lot more sense for her to be on Illos doing research on the Protheans vs Reapers.  She should've been tied into the plot of the Collectors being repurposed Protheans.  Not this half assed plot of suddenly being a 'info broker' for no apparent reason.

Agreed.  /sign