232 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

noobzor99 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh. If your playing an RPG for gameplay your doing it wrong. >_>

This.

I play Mass Effect to know the characters better, not because I want mind-warping action.  For that I have like 6 different multiplayer games...

I agree. Lets take out the gameplay altogether. And the strategy too - I hate thinking. It hurts. Maybe we can push for a 'video movie' instead of a 'video game'. Games are so....blah. They lack character.

Better yet, can someone from BioWare just tuck me in tonight and tell me a nice story? I just love Storytime.

...Right nice try.

If someone complains about an RPG being mostly dialogue they're doing it wrong. Like if I complained about Halo being mostly firefights I'd be doing it wrong. Certain games have emphasis on certain things. RPGs emphasize the story not the gameplay.

[SkullandBonesmember]

slimgrin wrote...

I agree. Lets take out the gameplay altogether. And the strategy too - I hate thinking. It hurts.

You think less story means less thinking? I say more combat, less thinking.

Question to everybody. Seriously, when it comes to your favorite moments in ME2, did it come from an emotional moment like a perfectly timed funny remark? Hugging a certain somebody when they need it the most? Seeing somebody crying? Or the moment(s) that elicited the most emotion from you a headshot?

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 18 avril 2010 - 12:44 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Ryzaki wrote...

Like if I complained about Halo being mostly firefights I'd be doing it wrong. Certain games have emphasis on certain things. RPGs emphasize the story not the gameplay.

Lol. 

QFT.

And did you even watch the video I provided slimgrin? All it is is one minute.

[ArmedChimp]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I agree. Lets take out the gameplay altogether. And the strategy too - I hate thinking. It hurts.

You think less story means less thinking? I say more combat, less thinking.

Not to rain on your parade but this is the general discussion and some of those are pretty late game spoilers.

Modifié par ArmedChimp, 18 avril 2010 - 12:23 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

ArmedChimp wrote...


Not to rain on your parade but this is the general discussion and some of those are pretty late game spoilers.

You're right. My bad. Fixed the wording.

[SkullandBonesmember]

slimgrin wrote...

That video is simply a pre-release advertisement for the game. It says very little about the game or the technical aspects of RPG's.

If story is all important in modern games ( and we all know how brilliantly game developers exemplify this - Orson wells, step aside....) then why do devs like Square Enix, and Bethesda, and Bioware even bother with gameplay mehanics? Why not just create a 30 hr interactive cutscene? Imagine the possibilities. The story could be....glorious.


And let me clarify that gameplay isn't just shooting stuff. Its making choices about developing the stats of your character. Yes, this takes thinking. More thinking, I would argue, than choosing between three choices on a dialouge wheel. Why? Because it impacts the gameplay; the cutscenes do not.

When people lament about ME2 lacking RPG elements, they aren't talking about dialouge - that's half the game already - they are refering to the oversimplified leveling system, the coridoor environments, the lack of an inventory, etc.

All this leads to a game that has been dumbed down. And the more 'movie time' we get, the less opportunity the player has to interact with the game. Can't get much more dumbed down than that. Pretty soon we're gonna have 'The SIms' in space, and it'll be nothing more than romance options and gossip. Just like real life.
I can hardly wait... 

Choices ADVANCE THE PLOT, not COMBAT.

And you obviously didn't see Sci Vs. Fi when it aired on TV it was still a part of the show.

And even if what you said happened to be true, why the hell would that matter? If something is not implemented on TV it's not relevant? What Wheaton and the other guy said is true regardless.

[Dick Delaware]

slimgrim, those are some solid points you're making. Video game writing with a scant few exceptions like Planescape: Torment, is usually crap.

If you only have gameplay and combat just as filler to kill time for your next cutscene, then why the hell aren't you making movies instead? If you're playing a game for the story, there are films and books with more interesting plots and characters with more depth than those in video games. Dialogue in games instead should play to it's strength as an interactive medium by giving the player choices and consequences, instead of providing people with oodles of cheesy dialogue where Shepard whispers sweet nothings into Tali's ear... er, suit.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 18 avril 2010 - 02:16 .

[Ryzaki]

Dick Delaware wrote...

slimgrim, those are some solid points you're making. Video game writing with a scant few exceptions like Planescape: Torment, is usually crap.

If you only have gameplay and combat just as filler to kill time for your next cutscene, then why the hell aren't you making movies instead? Dialogue instead should play to the strength of video games as an interactive medium by giving the player choices and consequences, instead of providing people with oodles of cheesy dialogue where Shepard whispers sweet nothings into Tali's ear... er, suit.

I don't think anyone is arguing for more frivolous dialogue. But to say that gameplay and story should be on equal footing in a RPG to me is silly. Of course the gameplay plays second fiddle to the storyline! Its supposed to! I'm not saying gameplay isn't at all important (it is still a game after all) but the gameplay should always, always be secondary to the story. (And no it should not be a damn 50/50 split. At most it should be a 70/30 split).

[SkullandBonesmember]

slimgrin wrote...

So if I choose to be a Vangaurd as opposed  to a Soilder...that doesn't affect the combat? Is that correct?

If I choose cryo ammo over incindiery, I suppose that doesn't matter either? Just playing second fiddle to the next cut scene?

One's class has NOTHING to do with the plot. I'm currently in the middle of my second playthrough. SECOND. That shows how much motivation ME2 has given me to play. Right now, I'm reminded just how much I LOVED the combat in ME1. I never had a problem with it. If anything, NOT being shooter fan, it allowed me to ease into the gameplay very easily. I've never known of an RPG fan to complain about the combat from the original. Now however, I'm forced to hide behind very limited cover, and an endless barrage of enemies encircling me. Yeah, even on the easiest setting that even Bioware themselves put in the description "for those that prefer to experience the story over combat".

[SkullandBonesmember]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't think anyone is arguing for more frivolous dialogue.

Exactly.

[Ryzaki]

...uh...slim...when you replay an RPG it kind of with the intention of listening to at least some of the dialogue again. That's...kind of the main point. You don't usually replay an RPG because of the combat system. >_>

[SkullandBonesmember]

slimgrin wrote...

I've played it six times. I came back that many times cause I thought the classes and the combat were worth experimenting with. Obviously, I didn't need to hear the dialouge six times over since in most cases, I knew what would be said. It got repetitive - the combat didn't. I actually think the combat is the deepest part of ME2.

I love ME1 as well. But you couldn't force me to wade through all that dialouge again for a replay.

After I made my last post, I started a non boss battle which took me 25 minutes at level 27. A non boss battle! Even fighting Benezia in ME1 didn't take me that long on a FIRST playthrough. Maybe you like the endless barrage of enemies, but RPG fans don't and Bioware is infamous for RPGs which is why we're so disappointed. It's like they're selling out.

[EternalWolfe]

Ryzaki wrote...

...uh...slim...when you replay an RPG it kind of with the intention of listening to at least some of the dialogue again. That's...kind of the main point. You don't usually replay an RPG because of the combat system. >_>

Although its quite possible to not replay an RPG because of the combat system.

[EternalWolfe]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...
Personally, I could do without the action elements completely.
Just let me run around and chat as I please and I'm a happy player.

Seriously? If so, it sounds like your playing the wrong game.
I am not sure of any games like that other than maybe sims games.  I haven't played a sims game though since simcity3000.

Actually, when I read that, my first thought was Indigo Prophecy.

[SkullandBonesmember]

slimgrin wrote...

Maybe your just not a fast -twitch gamer. I personally like both elements in the same game. 

Well, there's always Dragon Age. I doubt RPG fans think they sold out with that one. It should come as no suprise to you that I had to put that one down, through no fault of the dialouge, though. I wanted something more open-world, and I thought the enemy AI was one-dimentional, and the environments uninspired, and....I'll quit now.

You know the saying "if it aint broke don't fix it"? The combat in ME1 wasn't broke. And I refuse to bother with Dragon Age. Main character doesn't have a voice actor and do you realize how horrible the romance was implemented?

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I am not sure of any games like that other than maybe sims games.  I haven't played a sims game though since simcity3000.

There are a handful. Heavy Rain, Indigo Prophecy, and Shadow Of Destiny to name a few.

[EternalWolfe]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

How is that game?

I like it - but to be fair, my enjoyment of games can go far and wide.  One can learn to enjoy a game for what it is and what it gives you - assuming what it is and what it gives you is done well, of course.

I suppose if I were to explain it I would call it an 'interactive movie'.  You have points where your free to do what you wish within the scene(at least until time is up or you go ahead and do what your supposed to), and when the cutscenes hit, at points you'll end up controlling the action through button presses.  Same with dialogue.  There's no point where you actually have to control your character for anything except moving around(but Its been a while since I played, so I might be forgetting some parts).