49 réponses à ce sujet

[Chuvvy]

It's because you don't have a set name if you did I think it'd be better. Just a different Male/Female name for each origin. Then people in the party could call you that instead of warden.

[inclemency]

Maybe being a historian is a real detriment here. If you think of a landsmeet as more of a family reunion, rather than a random group of people coming together that don't know each other very well, it might speak to you more.



I hear everything you say, and that's all fine, but doesn't go far enough...example: for Eamon to ignore who she is, is mind boggling.



I give up, though...can't believe there isn't at least one other person out there

[LadyDamodred]

inclemency wrote...

Maybe being a historian is a real detriment here. If you think of a landsmeet as more of a family reunion, rather than a random group of people coming together that don't know each other very well, it might speak to you more.

I hear everything you say, and that's all fine, but doesn't go far enough...example: for Eamon to ignore who she is, is mind boggling.

I give up, though...can't believe there isn't at least one other person out there

*has a history degree*  >.>

This is not the real world.  As far as I can see, the nobility are a cross section of all people you find in power.  Some are friendly with each other, some are neutral and some do not like each other.  While your mother and father are very well known, your PC is not.  While they may like you and be upset with what happened, they need to keep an eye for their own interests.  They have more to gain from backing you as The Warden.  I do think there should be a little more 'Hey, sorry about your family' thing, but I don't find their reactions to be odd/wrong at all, especially at the Landsmeet.

[inclemency]

I give up

[jpdipity]

I agree with you; however, I find the same to be true about all the orgins/races. 

I think that Bioware has made a reasonable effort to make each orgin/race distinct and, for the most part, I am pleased with it.  More could have been done, but you can say the same for just about anything.

Modifié par jpdipity, 16 avril 2010 - 06:02 .

[BostonVamp]

Here's one inconsistency I found, not big but it did make me pause. If your HN doesn't kill Zevran and talks to him he tells you he's an Antivan Crow. Your character has no idea what that is. That really shouldn't be. I believe your sister-in-law was from Antiva and she would have known about The Crows. Unless you never spoke to your sister-in-law, and I can't believe that would be true, you should have at least been familiar with The Crows, even if you don't know a lot about their organization.

[Patriciachr34]

I think you have a misconception about the Landsmeet. This is a political gathering of land owners that express grievances and make decisions regarding Ferelden and specifically their interests in Ferelden. You may have indeed traveled to Denerim with your father, but your interactions with the various lords and ladies who represent the peoples of their holdings would have been minimal. This is why you get, "Ooo! You look familiar." a lot of the time. They will have seen you with your family during the annual meeting. Your father would definitely be more intimately involved with all of the Bannorn and Arls as he would be working the room to obtain political backing. Additionally, this is not a true feudal system. It remains feudal as long as the land holders support the current regime. Should they decide the current regime does not support their best interests, they can and do rebel. Finally, you must also consider that it takes days, even weeks to travel from one holding to another in Ferelden. You would only be well known to the Bannorn and Arlings closest to Highever. People in the middle ages generally did not travel more than 10 miles from home and this was considered a large distance. So, one could assume that only those people closest to you would have a moderately initimate knowledge of you.

[Addai]

inclemency wrote...
This is a pretty insular world. The 'nobles' all would have known each other very well.  To have Cailen never to have spoken to Elissa/Aedon (I'll only refer to Elissa from now on), or Arl Eamon not recognise or acknowledge who she is (reference calling her 'friend' or 'warden' only, while she calls him 'your grace' - when she is of higher rank); or Ser Cauthrian refer to Loghein as her 'better' are jarring incongruencies.

You are the youngest Cousland and would likely have been at one Landsmeet, if any.  There's no reason for a lot of the nobles to know who you are by sight, much later, when they think all the Couslands are dead.  And yet for all that, quite a few do recognize you, including Cailan.

I, too, noticed the "your grace" as being probably inappropriate for Eamon.  He should have said something about you being a Cousland, as well, and it should have been more of an issue at the Landsmeet.  However I think these things were simplified for gameplay purposes so that the Landsmeet scenes would play about the same no matter what origin your PC came from.

To not have Loghein's plotted campaign to take over the throne acknowledged is missing, too.  The whole thing should have been spelled out... trying to get rid of the Couslands and Arl Eamon, two of the most powerful and influential entities in Ferelden...and doing that BEFORE Ostagar, where the king was left to die, is a glaring omission.  Arl Eamon should have told that story at the Landsmeet.

Someone has probably addressed this already, but David Gaider has said that Loghain had no prior knowledge or planning of the Cousland massacre.  It seems suspicious, no doubt, but if the Maker says that's the way it is, then so it is.

Personally I thought the human noble origin had some of the greatest acknowledgement in the story.

[Taritu]

It seemed a bit underplayed. You are, as far as it is known, the only remaining child of one of the three most powerful noble families in the country. Yes, your House has otherwise been wiped out (or so it appears) but you, all by yourself, should be able to go to various lords of the Bannorn who had been loyal to your father (one of only two Teyrns in the entire country) and expect many of them to be loyal—-what happened to the Couslands is the sort of thing that would make the rest of the nobility really hostile to Loghain (he may not have known about it but no one in the world is going to believe that after he's rewarded Howe so highly and made him his right hand).



Being a Cousland, by itself, should be worth some votes.



But I agree that all of the Origins are underplayed to some extent or other. It's just most visible in the HN origin because they went and made you a noble from the third most powerful noble family in the entire country.

[asaiasai]

The game tells you that as a warden you can not hold a title anymore. The exception is made in Allistair's case as he IS the only surviving son of Maric. you should also know that you are not the last of the Couslands, as your brother did survive, and it will be him that takes control over the Cousland holdings. As a warden you will be given for your service the lands belonging to Howe, at which point they make it a point to say that as the commander of the grey, you are considered the Arl/Arlessa, it is a failry NEW thing in Feraldin as the treasurer in the Vigil will tell you, which is why she was sent in the first place, it is a new precident.



i have 5 HN plays and over all was satisfyied how my PC was dealt with some of the things that bother you also bother me but it is a limitation of the game not trying to say every name some one decides to name thier character. That would have added signifigant time and cost to the game even if they set up a set of standard names the player could pick from what a programming nightmare it would be, where as Warden covers everybody castless to noble, because according to the lore who you were no longer exists, you are Warden now and that is that.



As Warden you do have more power that a stray noble from a broken house, and the respect you get is a reflection on that, a Cousland is just a Cousland, and a Howe is just a Howe, but a Warden is above that. A warden will be granted an audience with a monarch faster than any other noble that should be all the recognition you need to do the job.



Asai

[Harutes]

I never really had a problem with it, most of it made sense to me. The fact that some people don't recognize you isn't that surprising, they may of heard of the Couslands, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they've met them in person, or seen a picture of them anywhere, it's not like there's television or internet.



As for addressing Arl Eamon as Your Grace, that makes perfect sense too, regardless of where you're coming from. Firstly, you're in his home, seeking his support, so it's respectful to recognize his authority in that sense, regardless of your station. Second, if memory serves, nobles were addressed the same by most people regardless of their rank, for example, even the King would refer to a Duke he was speaking to as Your Grace, and lesser nobles as My Lords and Ladies.

[keesio74]

LadyDamodred wrote...


Also, at the Landsmeet, your title has been stripped. You've also done everything as a Grey Warden. In this case, your words carry more weight as The Warden than as the orphan child of a noble family that had its rights and titles stripped. Anora can say she will restore your title before the Landsmeet, and Alistair would of course do it, but before Loghain is taken down, you have no title and authority as a member of the nobility from which to speak.

That's right. I think you even lose your last name when you become a warden... because your past life is just that - in the past. You are NOT a noble anymore.

[LadyDamodred]

keesio74 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...


Also, at the Landsmeet, your title has been stripped. You've also done everything as a Grey Warden. In this case, your words carry more weight as The Warden than as the orphan child of a noble family that had its rights and titles stripped. Anora can say she will restore your title before the Landsmeet, and Alistair would of course do it, but before Loghain is taken down, you have no title and authority as a member of the nobility from which to speak.

That's right. I think you even lose your last name when you become a warden... because your past life is just that - in the past. You are NOT a noble anymore.

This was not explained to my Cousland who proceeded to introduce herself as such every chance she got.  XD  I don't know if giving up your last name is required, but it's probably easier.  I don't think she would have, though, even if she just became a regular Warden.  It's too much a part of her identity.

[Sarah1281]

keesio74 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...


Also, at the Landsmeet, your title has been stripped. You've also done everything as a Grey Warden. In this case, your words carry more weight as The Warden than as the orphan child of a noble family that had its rights and titles stripped. Anora can say she will restore your title before the Landsmeet, and Alistair would of course do it, but before Loghain is taken down, you have no title and authority as a member of the nobility from which to speak.

That's right. I think you even lose your last name when you become a warden... because your past life is just that - in the past. You are NOT a noble anymore.

You're not a noble because Loghain took your family's title and gave it to Howe not because you're a Warden. Even if that is the legal precedent in Ferelden (which I'm not convinced we have enough evidence to conclusively say that it is), Wardens are so new to Ferelden that no one is actually enforcing it and they go around granting titles to you after the Blight with little concern so unless you choose to be such a gung-ho Warden that you act like your old self is dead, there's no reason you can't do pretty much whatever you would have done had you not become a Warden.

[eucatastrophe]

Haven't read the thread, responding to OP:

You can coax the guard at Ostagar to grant you an audience with Loghain. He says something along the lines of "Haven't I seen you at the Landsmeet?" and there are 2 options to acknowledge your heritage and one to deny it.



From what I've seen of the Human story, your PC is "supposed" to be young: late teens, early twenties. Therefore you wouldn't have gone to the Landsmeet (in the game writers' intentions) and you wouldn't be widely known.



I think it boils down to the fact that there were only so many dialog paths they could have, and only so much they could pay the voice actors.



I think your concern/observation is valid, but the reality is the game developers can only do so much.



It would be nice to have detailed conversations reflecting the titular Origins, but alas, that is too good to be true. That's where fanfic comes in

[Thor Rand Al]

asaiasai wrote...

The game tells you that as a warden you can not hold a title anymore. The exception is made in Allistair's case as he IS the only surviving son of Maric. you should also know that you are not the last of the Couslands, as your brother did survive, and it will be him that takes control over the Cousland holdings. As a warden you will be given for your service the lands belonging to Howe, at which point they make it a point to say that as the commander of the grey, you are considered the Arl/Arlessa, it is a failry NEW thing in Feraldin as the treasurer in the Vigil will tell you, which is why she was sent in the first place, it is a new precident.

i have 5 HN plays and over all was satisfyied how my PC was dealt with some of the things that bother you also bother me but it is a limitation of the game not trying to say every name some one decides to name thier character. That would have added signifigant time and cost to the game even if they set up a set of standard names the player could pick from what a programming nightmare it would be, where as Warden covers everybody castless to noble, because according to the lore who you were no longer exists, you are Warden now and that is that.

As Warden you do have more power that a stray noble from a broken house, and the respect you get is a reflection on that, a Cousland is just a Cousland, and a Howe is just a Howe, but a Warden is above that. A warden will be granted an audience with a monarch faster than any other noble that should be all the recognition you need to do the job.

Asai

You're right about that, the Dwarven quest is proof when you first go up to the doors to go inside.  That dwarf gaurd won't let Loghain's man in but the minute you show those treaties, he's letting you enter without batting an eye.


EDIT

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 19 avril 2010 - 05:32 .

[Ulicus]

inclemency wrote...

To others above:  Cailan would have met her before at court.  I don't believe the kids were kept at Highever their whole lives, the family would have been too social for that.  Being at court a part of the year would have been part of life for a noble family, especially one of their rank.  The kids were being groomed for taking over Highever. Eleanor and Bryce would have exposed their children to every social circumstance, from being around kings to commoners. 

You have the option to tell Loghain (at Ostagar, if you get an audience) "I've never been out of Highever" (edited mistake). Now, I agree that it's very strange and doesn't make a lot of sense  (though the Teyrnir is likely a very large place, and the HN is probably referring to that, as opposed to the City) but what you believe doesn't really matter, since it's right there in the game.

That said, Arl Howe will also mention that his daughter saw you in Denerim if you're a rogue... so I guess it's really up to us as to why the king has never met the HN. Maybe they squired in a very remote bannorn of Highever from the age of thirteen, or maybe they were chilling out in the Free Marches, or travelling through Orlais, or so on and so forth.  I mean, it is implied that your HN isn't a "typical" HN, and that your family isn't the "typical" noble family, either.

But, as I said, it is indeed strange. It's not like Cailan and the HN having met before would have had even the slightest impact on the main plot of the game, given how early on he dies.

Modifié par Ulicus, 20 avril 2010 - 08:57 .

[Revya]

Funny thing happen, I started my first HN game everything was going as plan, but when I was with the king he started saying that my accent was familiar and that it must be from Redcllif.

I was surprized I thought they took out every reference of this origin, so I whent to Loghain and he also said that I was not your typical soldier not as "green" as the rest.

SO yeah I started a HN and I am now playing a Human Commener, which is one of the origins I wanted the other being an apostate mage.

Modifié par Revya, 20 avril 2010 - 12:45 .

[Herr Uhl]

Revya wrote...

Funny thing happen, I started my first HN game everything was going as plan, but when I was with the king he started saying that my accent was familiar and that it must be from Redcllif.

I was surprized I thought they took out every reference of this origin, so I whent to Loghain and he also said that I was not your typical soldier not as "green" as the rest.

SO yeah I started a HN and I am now playing a Human Commener, which is one of the origins I wanted the other being an apostate mage.

Didn't you have a thread about it back then? I remember it being mentioned at least.

[Serissia]

I've played through once as DN and once as a Dalish. I've played through as a HN three times. I can honestly say through out the game as a whole the HN is the most recognized. Even in Orzammer as a DN there are NPCs that treat you no differently than if you were a Mage/Elf/Human.

The game in general seems to refer to you as what you are at the moment vs what you are over all. This is especially seen in Awakening since as HN you may have acquired a stack of titles by then (Queen/King and if you asked for it either Teyrn/Teyrna of Gwaren or Chancellor). Yet in Awakening the PC is mostly referred to Commander of the Grey or simply Commander.

As for the HN having been out of Highever, he/she obviously has been.  If you say that you like the idea of possibility meeting up with either Howe's son/daughter he tells you that he/she saw you at a Denerim fair.  Through out the game many people ask if you've been seen at the Landsmeet.  It would seem that unless you're trying to RP otherwise that Bryce did take his children out of Highever on occasion.  

Modifié par Serissia, 20 avril 2010 - 03:05 .

[Thalorin1919]

By the time the Landsmeet roles around, its probably been several months since Ostagar. Most people know you now as the 'Warden' and not the youngest Cousland, even though the nobles will recognize you as a Cousland.



Personally I dont see the big deal. Once you are a Warden, all your former ties are cut except for a select few such as Alistair becoming king due to his blood.

[Ulicus]

Serissia wrote...

The game in general seems to refer to you as what you are at the moment vs what you are over all. This is especially seen in Awakening since as HN you may have acquired a stack of titles by then (Queen/King and if you asked for it either Teyrn/Teyrna of Gwaren or Chancellor). Yet in Awakening the PC is mostly referred to Commander of the Grey or simply Commander.

True, but in Amaranthine that's the single most most important title you have, since it's the one by which you rule the Arling. I imagine it'd be incorrect for people to primarily refer to you by your other title/s in that context.

Serissia wrote...
As for the HN having been out of Highever, he/she obviously has been.  If you say that you like the idea of possibility meeting up with either Howe's son/daughter he tells you that he/she saw you at a Denerim fair.

Only to rogues.

Serissia wrote...
Through out the game many people ask if you've been seen at the Landsmeet.  It would seem that unless you're trying to RP otherwise that Bryce did take his children out of Highever on occasion.

People only bring it up because you have the option to tell Loghain that you never left Highever. But, yeah, I think it's better if you have left Highever. (Though that makes having never met the King before even sillier)

Modifié par Ulicus, 20 avril 2010 - 09:10 .

[Revya]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Revya wrote...

Funny thing happen, I started my first HN game everything was going as plan, but when I was with the king he started saying that my accent was familiar and that it must be from Redcllif.

I was surprized I thought they took out every reference of this origin, so I whent to Loghain and he also said that I was not your typical soldier not as "green" as the rest.

SO yeah I started a HN and I am now playing a Human Commener, which is one of the origins I wanted the other being an apostate mage.

Didn't you have a thread about it back then? I remember it being mentioned at least.

Nope, this just recently happen.

Still from what I can gather you defeated a drakspawn raiding party and that is why Duncan wanted you.

Back on the subject, that is way I like the Mage origin your are a blank slate

Modifié par Revya, 21 avril 2010 - 09:27 .

[Korva]

I do believe that all the origins are implemented in a rather shallow manner that really doesn't satisfy me. But then, the game (as all games do) handles many many things in a very shallow and unsatisfying manner. Nature of the beast, sadly. The broader of a scope a game tries to cover ("good" options versus "evil" ones, "lawful" versus "chaotic", different races/classes/specializations/backstories), the less "deep" the game overall turns out simply because there is not enough time/money assigned or even available to really cover everything. So most issues and choices have little or no impact and consequences. If Dragon Age was all about the Cousland Warden, then that background and its implications could and would have received a lot more attention. But it is Origins nor Origin.

That is one reason why I actually prefer games with a more narrow scope and focus. The old Ultima games, for example, focus exclusively on a human protagonist who is assumed to be a literal Avatar of the philosophy and ethics of the (main) setting. There is no "evil" or "rebel" path because that would be entirely inappropriate for the premise of the story. I like that approach much better than having a game that in every way feels like it's meant to play with a "good" character, but has "evil" options everywhere -- without applying any consequences to that kind of playstyle which should technically be plot-breaking (KotOR felt that way to me).

Of course, the catch with that sort of game is that the specific kind of scope and focus has to be one that actually interests me (being able to play a woman is a must there, for one, and many games fail that check). A "broader" but more "shallow" game can appeal to more varied tastes, to an extent.

Modifié par Korva, 24 avril 2010 - 10:38 .