101 réponses à ce sujet

[RyrineaNara]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

RyineaNara epic posting machine gun you got there

My  computer is freaking out on me 

[8erserker]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Jorran Khaar wrote...

Yeah, just that line taints his character for me. I don't know what my friend went through since I never played Femshep, but she would say he's emo.

It was a sharp contrast from his normal attitude, but I thought it was effective and appropriate.  I could empathize with why he would say something like that in his position.  But each to their own, I guess.

Yea, to each their own. I'm not a fan of such dramatic shifts in character. Same thing happened for me with the villain from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. SPOILERS: He's all "We gotta kill the planet! We gotta take military action!" and then the sudden, token sympathy line "I had a wife. She died." If you ever watch another movie called Dragon Tiger Gate, it's the same thing. It's... too blatant, which reflects the character poorly.

[hk47d]

The only time i really didn't like whining was when Jacob met Thane, i was tempted to yell at Jacob to shut the hell up and tell him he doesn't even know this guy so he shouldn't act like a jerk to him.



Otherwise: whining=problem=problem solving=entertainment/fun

[Nightwriter]

aynxalot wrote...

Garrus' life kinda sucks when you get reunited with him. Angst w/out justification = emo. Angst w/ justification = totally effing reasonable.
Anyway, I don't know, this may be just me, but if I've ever joked about Kaidan as being "whiny" it's a callback Carth Onasi, which they actually do lampshade in ME1.

The truth surfaces.

This is all about Carth, isn't it?

[gurlgotkat]

i didn't think the any of the characters were whiny. I much perfer them to have them to a backstory than none like jacob. in fact i wished all the crew members had alot more dialogue because i wanted to litsen to all that drama and history. it makes the characters more 3d. the characters had alot less in the second game. it only annoys me when people say characters in the game talked to much?! O.o

for instance i think alot of people complained that tali talked to much about the flotilla in the first game. but what if players wanted to know more background about each chaacter....

[Ray Joel Oh]

Jorran Khaar wrote...

Yea, to each their own. I'm not a fan of such dramatic shifts in character. Same thing happened for me with the villain from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. SPOILERS: He's all "We gotta kill the planet! We gotta take military action!" and then the sudden, token sympathy line "I had a wife. She died." If you ever watch another movie called Dragon Tiger Gate, it's the same thing. It's... too blatant, which reflects the character poorly.

I know what you mean but I didn't get that at all from him.  It seemed like an integral part of his story, with him reacting naturally to it.

No accounting for taste, blah blah blah

[Ray Joel Oh]

gurlgotkat wrote...

i didn't think the any of the characters were whiny. I much perfer them to have them to a backstory than none like jacob. in fact i wished all the crew members had alot more dialogue because i wanted to litsen to all that drama and history. it makes the characters more 3d. the characters had alot less in the second game. it only annoys me when people say characters in the game talked to much?! O.o
for instance i think alot of people complained that tali talked to much about the flotilla in the first game. but what if players wanted to know more background about each chaacter....

Concerning Jacob, I wonder if he seems a lot more fleshed out to the people who played that mobile phone game with him, Mass Effect Galaxy.  Of course that would be lousy storytelling to depend on other mediums to flesh out the characters... And they seem to have been trying to get away with that with Liara... /can of worms

[Nightwriter]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Jorran Khaar wrote...

Yea, to each their own. I'm not a fan of such dramatic shifts in character. Same thing happened for me with the villain from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. SPOILERS: He's all "We gotta kill the planet! We gotta take military action!" and then the sudden, token sympathy line "I had a wife. She died." If you ever watch another movie called Dragon Tiger Gate, it's the same thing. It's... too blatant, which reflects the character poorly.

I know what you mean but I didn't get that at all from him.  It seemed like an integral part of his story, with him reacting naturally to it.

No accounting for taste, blah blah blah

My tastes run along the lines of yours, I think.

I don't think what they did with Garrus in ME2 was wacky at all.

In ME1 he really came across like a young, budding character, really, with strong goals, trying to find his path. You were able to influence him a bit, but you got the sense he was going to go off and try to achieve something in his own right.

Well, in ME2 he did just that, he tried for the first time to start his own team and get something going. It just so happened that it didn't go well, but I think this adds depth to him, helps him evolve a bit as a character and see his former brashness from the side of a commander who has now lost troops. It was all part of his maturation process.

I don't really think that he would've even been with Shepard in ME2 if he hadn't lost his team somehow - he'd still be with that team, he'd have his own people now and a place with them, just like with Wrex and the krogan.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 16 avril 2010 - 10:54 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Nightwriter wrote...

My tastes run
along the lines of yours, I think.

I don't think what they did
with Garrus in ME2 was wacky at all.

In ME1 he really came across
like a young, budding character, really, with strong goals, trying to
find his path. You were able to influence him a bit, but you got the
sense he was going to go off and try to achieve something in his own
right.

Well, in ME2 he did just that, he tried for the first time
to start his own team and get something going. It just so happened that
it didn't go well, but I think this adds depth to him, helps him evolve
a bit as a character and see his former brashness from the side of a
commander who has now lost troops. It was all part of his maturation
process.

I don't really think that he would've even been with
Shepard in ME2 if he hadn't lost his team somehow - he'd still be with
that team, he'd have his own people now and a place with them, just like
with Wrex and the krogan.

My thoughts exactly.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 16 avril 2010 - 10:57 .

[wizardryforever]

I really don't think any of the characters in either Mass Effect game were whiny.  They all have justifications for their emotions and don't pour their heart out without you asking them to.  Miranda's constant talk about her father got awfully close to whining, but again, you ask her, so it's your own damn fault.

Dragon Age SPOILERS
Seriously though, Alistair is incredibly whiny if you look past his face and voice and actually listen to what he says, and in what context.  And these are conversations that the game forces on you, since he as a character is pretty much forced on you.  There's even a line that you can give him that says, verbatim, "That sounds incredibly whiny Alistair."  Whining is part of his personality, it's only because he is otherwise a nice guy with occasional moments of humor that make him tolerable.

[Habelo]

kaiden is a ****. why he didnt make him homosexual and straight is for me a riddle.



Thane is pretty pimp though- he isnt whining. He is like this social retard who cant talk to people but you.

[Lucky Thirteen]

Yes Garrus is angsty, but he really has every reason to be angsty. If you look around that building he's in when you recruit him, there are the dead bodies of the group he tried to lead covered with sheets.There's about four on the bottom floor and then two in the room opposite of where Garrus is.



The fact that he still jokes around actually shows he's a very strong character.

[DukeOfNukes]

Jorran Khaar wrote...

Yea, to each their own. I'm not a fan of such dramatic shifts in character. Same thing happened for me with the villain from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. SPOILERS: He's all "We gotta kill the planet! We gotta take military action!" and then the sudden, token sympathy line "I had a wife. She died." If you ever watch another movie called Dragon Tiger Gate, it's the same thing. It's... too blatant, which reflects the character poorly.

Wasn't a dramatic shift in character...it was giving him depth...giving a reason behind his madness. It humanized him, and said "he's not just an ****, he's honestly doing what he thinks is right." He's not trying to kill the planet, he had a seperate viewpoint from the scientists. I mean, honestly, if we had a weather control device that provided food for the entire Earth, but someone was claiming that it was destroying heaven...would you believe them or think that they were nutty?

Alistair was the only character from a BioWare game that I really felt like he was being whiny. Yeah, I could understand it right after Duncan & The Grey Wardens all died...but it took how long to get to Redcliffe? and he was STILL ****ing?

[Jax Sparrow]

Nightwriter wrote...  I mean, you're right, here we are sitting in the forums talking about how Jacob was so boring because there as no background to his character, nothing to get from him, nothing special -

And then we turn around and say when there is  more to these characters, and they talk to us, they're whining.

I fail to see how Garrus has more to say, as maleShepard, than Jacob.  He tells you one, or two, stories about how emo he is, and then you get his quest where Harkin is the only kewl part.  At least, Jacob's dad was having fun playing in his perverted pubescent fantasy... They need an option where you can exchange Jacob for his dad;  Like Samara and Morinth.

[Garuda One]

I was wondering where the add-on for Firefox was to block all the fan threads. Its spam and I can't stand spam.

[Il Divo]

To the possibility of other party members being  'whiny', I ask what would we do in similar circumstances? In most cases it is Shepard who approaches his squad mates on the Normandy and asks them about their lives, so they explain to you what they've been through. I'm curious how any of us would become if placed in similar positions, let alone considering this suicide mission.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 avril 2010 - 02:38 .

[Nightwriter]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...  I mean, you're right, here we are sitting in the forums talking about how Jacob was so boring because there as no background to his character, nothing to get from him, nothing special -

And then we turn around and say when there is  more to these characters, and they talk to us, they're whining.

I fail to see how Garrus has more to say, as maleShepard, than Jacob.  He tells you one, or two, stories about how emo he is, and then you get his quest where Harkin is the only kewl part.  At least, Jacob's dad was having fun playing in his perverted pubescent fantasy... They need an option where you can exchange Jacob for his dad;  Like Samara and Morinth.

Quality over quantity.

The one or two actual conversations that you have with Garrus let you into his character way more than Jacob's.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Nightwriter wrote...

Quality over quantity.

The one or two actual conversations that you have with Garrus let you into his character way more than Jacob's.

See, I disagree here. I personally found Garrus to be a very stale character in the first game. I understood his motivations; they made sense, but I just didn't feel that connection. His voice felt mostly monotone throughout our discussions. Jacob bored me for opposite reasons. I felt like he had a more clear-cut character, he was your typical 'every-man'. But his background/motivations were really unclear beyond 'Cerberus rules, Alliance drools.'

[Nightwriter]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Quality over quantity.

The one or two actual conversations that you have with Garrus let you into his character way more than Jacob's.

See, I disagree here. I personally found Garrus to be a very stale character in the first game. I understood his motivations; they made sense, but I just didn't feel that connection. His voice felt mostly monotone throughout our discussions. Jacob bored me for opposite reasons. I felt like he had a more clear-cut character, he was your typical 'every-man'. But his background/motivations were really unclear beyond 'Cerberus rules, Alliance drools.'

I shall tell you a secret - I found most of the characters stale from the first game.

However, I'm talking about game two. In game two I felt like these characters really came into focus. Both Garrus and Tali became much more interesting to me.

I sort of cut a little slack with Jacob's motivations in leaving the Alliance and joining Cerberus because I didn't play galaxy, and the events that took place there probably had something to do with all of that. As it stands, Jacob is a very boring character to me who has little to no character complexities.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Nightwriter wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Quality over quantity.

The one or two actual conversations that you have with Garrus let you into his character way more than Jacob's.

See, I disagree here. I personally found Garrus to be a very stale character in the first game. I understood his motivations; they made sense, but I just didn't feel that connection. His voice felt mostly monotone throughout our discussions. Jacob bored me for opposite reasons. I felt like he had a more clear-cut character, he was your typical 'every-man'. But his background/motivations were really unclear beyond 'Cerberus rules, Alliance drools.'

I shall tell you a secret - I found most of the characters stale from the first game.

However, I'm talking about game two. In game two I felt like these characters really came into focus. Both Garrus and Tali became much more interesting to me.

I sort of cut a little slack with Jacob's motivations in leaving the Alliance and joining Cerberus because I didn't play galaxy, and the events that took place there probably had something to do with all of that. As it stands, Jacob is a very boring character to me who has little to no character complexities.

Aye, to me Mass Effect 1 and 2 represent opposite issues with the way the squad members play out.

Mass Effect 1: Most squad members are directly tied to the story. It is very clear where the come in and why. Unfortunately, the reason why Shepard feels obligated to bring them along (excluding Liara) is practically non-existent. It's never explained what they can offer him as foot soldiers.

Mass Effect 2: Most of the characters are clearly capable. You are hiring 'the best of the best'. Samara/Jack being among the best of biotics makes clear why Shepard would want them; it's not clear why they are interested in the Collectors.

For me, a character to have a believable role in the story, they need both: 1. Desirability or why Shepard would want them. 2. A plot-fueled motivation, or why they would want to go with Shepard. Both are necessary, imo, for good squad members (as well as interesting personalities).

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 17 avril 2010 - 03:53 .

[Nightwriter]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Aye, to me Mass Effect 1 and 2 represent opposite issues with the way the squad members play out.

Mass Effect 1: Most squad members are directly tied to the story. It is very clear where the come in and why. Unfortunately, the reason why Shepard feels obligated to bring them along (excluding Liara) is practically non-existent. It's never explained what they can offer him as foot soldiers.

Mass Effect 2: Most of the characters are clearly capable. You are hiring 'the best of the best'. Samara/Jack being among the best of biotics makes clear why Shepard would want them; it's not clear why they are interested in the Collectors.

For me, a character to have a believable role in the story, they need both: 1. Desirability or why Shepard would want them. 2. A plot-fueled motivation, or why they would want to go with Shepard. Both are necessary, imo, for good squad members (as well as interesting personalities).

You speak the truth.

It's funny, now that you spell them out like that I'm not sure which I prefer - they both seem so incomplete.

I guess I'd prefer the way they did it in the second game... though I have a feeling this is because of nothing more than the fact I found game two's characters more interesting.

[Nightwriter]

^ This is like my fifth playthrough and I just noticed it.

[Collider]

Garrus is angsty? News to me really. He handled the betrayal quite well.



I can honestly say that I don't know of a single squad mate that has ever whined. I assume that people saying that Jacob whines is about his reaction to recruiting some of the squad mates like Thane and Legion, and his reaction to the renegade decisions.