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[Azint]

kraidy1117 wrote...

-Legion
-Tali
-Grunt
-Miranda
-mordin

These names pop up in my head. that will cause consequences.

Who knows? I certainly did not expect Wrex to become krogan Overlord, something similar may happen to another character.

[Yeled]

scmadsen wrote...

On top of that, Liara doesn't poof like Ash/Kai...she's there for the whole game, taunting you, haunting you, reminding you that she isn't coming with you...you can talk to her, but she doesn't say anything new...you run back to her after every new thing, hoping...the first playthru was torture.

^ This!!!

That was pure hell.  I kept going back.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I thought maybe something would trigger more dialogue options.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  She seemed to imply there would be some follow up to the missions.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I wanted to have Shep tell her how she feels.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I felt like throwing my controller through my television.

"Shepard, its good to see you again."

[jlb524]

Azint wrote...

The majority of the plot for Mass Effect 2 was recruiting all these characters- the best of the best, I sorely doubt that they are all going to get the shaft because they can be killed. On the contrary; I believe there will be some serious consequences for losing any of them.

I doubt there will be serious consequences.  At most, you'll just have one less potential squad mate to select from.  This is the same as if you didn't even recruit Samara in ME2, for example.  At least, you'll see someone else in the ME2 character's cameo besides them...like they did with Wrex/Wreave. 

The game will still be playable if you had a bunch of people die.  Maybe there's one extra hoop you have to jump through in a side quest because character X is dead.  On my second Shepard, she had 6 people die and 5 survive.   I don't expect ME3 to be anymore challenging than when I had almost everyone survive.

[JeanLuc761]

Azint wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

-Legion
-Tali
-Grunt
-Miranda
-mordin

These names pop up in my head. that will cause consequences.

Who knows? I certainly did not expect Wrex to become krogan Overlord, something similar may happen to another character.

If they retcon Tali out of the game to become Admiral, even though she already said she doesn't want to take on that responsibility...I may just go up to Bioware HQ and smack them across the face.  <_<

Then there are characters like Garrus, who literally has nothing in his life except Shepard to hold onto...how the hell can you write him out?

[kraidy1117]

jlb524 wrote...

Azint wrote...

The majority of the plot for Mass Effect 2 was recruiting all these characters- the best of the best, I sorely doubt that they are all going to get the shaft because they can be killed. On the contrary; I believe there will be some serious consequences for losing any of them.

I doubt there will be serious consequences.  At most, you'll just have one less potential squad mate to select from.  This is the same as if you didn't even recruit Samara in ME2, for example.  At least, you'll see someone else in the ME2 character's cameo besides them...like they did with Wrex/Wreave. 

The game will still be playable if you had a bunch of people die.  Maybe there's one extra hoop you have to jump through in a side quest because character X is dead.  On my second Shepard, she had 6 people die and 5 survive.   I don't expect ME3 to be anymore challenging than when I had almost everyone survive.

Why not? Wrex dead caused alot of consequences and we will see the full efefct of that in ME3 if Wrex is dead.

[Azint]

Yeled wrote...

^ This!!!

That was pure hell.  I kept going back.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I thought maybe something would trigger more dialogue options.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  She seemed to imply there would be some follow up to the missions.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I wanted to have Shep tell her how she feels.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I felt like throwing my controller through my television.

"Shepard, its good to see you again."

She does not even say goodbye when you leave.

[Ecael]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

The point that the Reapers want Shepard, not lIara shows he is more valuable to the plot then her. Liara was a big part in ME, but in ME2 she plays only a minor part.

The Reapers originally wanted Saren, Benezia and Liara. As I already mentioned, the Lazarus Project wouldn't have happened if not for Liara (and Miranda, of course).

No Saren wanted Liara, not the Reapers. there is nothing in the game that even says the Reapers wanted Liara.

Whatever the Reapers want is what Saren wants.

LOL what? Ecael I miss when you where EDI............

I'm a Blue Suns Mercenary now.:innocent:

I'm still here arguing in favor of all the characters, though. I've always said that I don't like or hate any squadmate over the other -- and you know that, Kraidy. The reason I got into a huge argument with Dinkamus was because he was extremely pessimistic about the return of the ME2 squadmates, and thus I sided against him.

Modifié par Ecael, 17 avril 2010 - 01:45 .

[JeanLuc761]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Why not? Wrex dead caused alot of consequences and we will see the full efefct of that in ME3 if Wrex is dead.

To play devil's advocate here...I never noticed any big consequences to Wrex's death.  

At least, not yet 

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

On the flip side, they'd have to spend an equal amount of resources (if not more) creating new characters, finding new VA's, and STILL including cameo's for the potentially dead squadmates.  

I think the message is well established by now though; if Bioware takes the people we've gotten to know over two games and hundreds of hours of playtime and simply tosses them aside for the finale then they're simply ASKING to get hate mail.  

It basically comes down to whether or not Bioware can stomach the fact that some of their content may not be seen by people.  Though, in defense of that, players can literally skip about 50% of both ME1 and ME2, so Bioware has to be aware of the fact that there are some people who simply don't get to see everything.

I agree with you in theory I'm just judging by BW's past actions, moving from ME1 to ME2 and with DA:  Awakening.  I don't expect every ME2 squad mate to return as squad mates...maybe some of the most popular, but not all.

I've used all these arguments in the past to justify why BW would have all the surviving ME1 crew in ME2 but I was proven wrong.

[kraidy1117]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Why not? Wrex dead caused alot of consequences and we will see the full efefct of that in ME3 if Wrex is dead.

To play devil's advocate here...I never noticed any big consequences to Wrex's death.  

At least, not yet 

If Wrex is alive, the Korgan are changing, untiting and becoming one again. Mordin says that when Krogan unite they are very good and this is good for Krogans. With Wrex dead, the Krogans are still the same blood thristy race and are not united.

[Azint]

jlb524 wrote...

I doubt there will be serious consequences.  At most, you'll just have one less potential squad mate to select from.  This is the same as if you didn't even recruit Samara in ME2, for example.  At least, you'll see someone else in the ME2 character's cameo besides them...like they did with Wrex/Wreave. 

The game will still be playable if you had a bunch of people die.  Maybe there's one extra hoop you have to jump through in a side quest because character X is dead.  On my second Shepard, she had 6 people die and 5 survive.   I don't expect ME3 to be anymore challenging than when I had almost everyone survive.

But the whole point of ME2 was the characters. They all have established roles and backgrounds and a lot of emphasis was put on who they were and what they do. I think it would greatly cheapen their roles if any of them were written out or their deaths having little consequences, why try so hard to make players care for these characters if all they end up doing is nothing? That is poor writing.

[bergerrz]

Azint wrote...

Yeled wrote...

^ This!!!

That was pure hell.  I kept going back.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I thought maybe something would trigger more dialogue options.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  She seemed to imply there would be some follow up to the missions.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I wanted to have Shep tell her how she feels.  "Shepard, its good to see you again."  I felt like throwing my controller through my television.

"Shepard, its good to see you again."

She does not even say goodbye when you leave.

My feelings excatly

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

On the flip side, they'd have to spend an equal amount of resources (if not more) creating new characters, finding new VA's, and STILL including cameo's for the potentially dead squadmates.  

I think the message is well established by now though; if Bioware takes the people we've gotten to know over two games and hundreds of hours of playtime and simply tosses them aside for the finale then they're simply ASKING to get hate mail.  

It basically comes down to whether or not Bioware can stomach the fact that some of their content may not be seen by people.  Though, in defense of that, players can literally skip about 50% of both ME1 and ME2, so Bioware has to be aware of the fact that there are some people who simply don't get to see everything.

I agree with you in theory I'm just judging by BW's past actions, moving from ME1 to ME2 and with DA:  Awakening.  I don't expect every ME2 squad mate to return as squad mates...maybe some of the most popular, but not all.

I've used all these arguments in the past to justify why BW would have all the surviving ME1 crew in ME2 but I was proven wrong.

We shall see then.  I hope to god Bioware puts in the effort and gives EVERYONE the chance to return as a full-fledged character...but we honestly won't know until they start the hype.  

[Azint]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

To play devil's advocate here...I never noticed any big consequences to Wrex's death.  

At least, not yet 

I have not lost Wrex in any of my games; so I wouldn't know.

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Why not? Wrex dead caused alot of consequences and we will see the full efefct of that in ME3 if Wrex is dead.

To play devil's advocate here...I never noticed any big consequences to Wrex's death.  

At least, not yet 

Wreav and Wrex are pretty much equal at this point.  I don't see a big difference playing out in ME3 in this story.  Both will unite the Krogan but it will be 'cooler' if it's Wrex b/c we have an emotional attachment to him and not to Wreav. 

I also doubt BW will want to create a situation where the player in ME3 is majorly screwed because a certain party member died in ME2.    So screwed, in fact, they have to go back and replay ME2 to make sure said party member does not die.  They will not do something like this.

[JeanLuc761]

Azint wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I doubt there will be serious consequences.  At most, you'll just have one less potential squad mate to select from.  This is the same as if you didn't even recruit Samara in ME2, for example.  At least, you'll see someone else in the ME2 character's cameo besides them...like they did with Wrex/Wreave. 

The game will still be playable if you had a bunch of people die.  Maybe there's one extra hoop you have to jump through in a side quest because character X is dead.  On my second Shepard, she had 6 people die and 5 survive.   I don't expect ME3 to be anymore challenging than when I had almost everyone survive.

But the whole point of ME2 was the characters. They all have established roles and backgrounds and a lot of emphasis was put on who they were and what they do. I think it would greatly cheapen their roles if any of them were written out or their deaths having little consequences, why try so hard to make players care for these characters if all they end up doing is nothing? That is poor writing.

I very much agree.  All it comes down to is whether or not Bioware (EA) can stomach the resources knowing that some of this content may never be seen by some people.

Then again, I'd be rather surprised if there were many people who do NOT have a "everyone survived" playthrough ready for import.

[scmadsen]

jlb524 wrote...

I agree with you in theory I'm just judging by BW's past actions, moving from ME1 to ME2 and with DA:  Awakening.  I don't expect every ME2 squad mate to return as squad mates...maybe some of the most popular, but not all.

I've used all these arguments in the past to justify why BW would have all the surviving ME1 crew in ME2 but I was proven wrong.

Like the dwarf...because be we all know everyone loved him...right...by that logic...guess what...Jacob is coming back...but wait, he's a LI...so that won't work...ok, we'll get Grunt to come back then.

[kraidy1117]

jlb524 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Why not? Wrex dead caused alot of consequences and we will see the full efefct of that in ME3 if Wrex is dead.

To play devil's advocate here...I never noticed any big consequences to Wrex's death.  

At least, not yet 

Wreav and Wrex are pretty much equal at this point.  I don't see a big difference playing out in ME3 in this story.  Both will unite the Krogan but it will be 'cooler' if it's Wrex b/c we have an emotional attachment to him and not to Wreav. 

I also doubt BW will want to create a situation where the player in ME3 is majorly screwed because a certain party member died in ME2.    So screwed, in fact, they have to go back and replay ME2 to make sure said party member does not die.  They will not do something like this.

Wreave won't, Wreave does not want to unite, Wrex does. Wrex being dead is very bad.

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

We shall see then.  I hope to god Bioware puts in the effort and gives EVERYONE the chance to return as a full-fledged character...but we honestly won't know until they start the hype.  

That's right, but I choose not to get my hopes up due to what happened in ME2.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

It's not that I hate all the ME2 characters and I don't want them as squad mates  (if I did, I could just make sure they died in the suicide mission).    I really liked a few ME2 characters...ironically, those will be the ones that don't return

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...


Wreav and Wrex are pretty much equal at this point.  I don't see a big difference playing out in ME3 in this story.  Both will unite the Krogan but it will be 'cooler' if it's Wrex b/c we have an emotional attachment to him and not to Wreav. 

I also doubt BW will want to create a situation where the player in ME3 is majorly screwed because a certain party member died in ME2.    So screwed, in fact, they have to go back and replay ME2 to make sure said party member does not die.  They will not do something like this.

I agree, but it'd be nice (and fair, I think) to have a consequence like...if the Geth aren't united with you then you lose their firepower and you lose a beloved squad member or something.  Same goes for the quarians and...well you get the idea.

Would give weight to your actions without completely screwing you over.

[kraidy1117]

scmadsen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I agree with you in theory I'm just judging by BW's past actions, moving from ME1 to ME2 and with DA:  Awakening.  I don't expect every ME2 squad mate to return as squad mates...maybe some of the most popular, but not all.

I've used all these arguments in the past to justify why BW would have all the surviving ME1 crew in ME2 but I was proven wrong.

Like the dwarf...because be we all know everyone loved him...right...by that logic...guess what...Jacob is coming back...but wait, he's a LI...so that won't work...ok, we'll get Grunt to come back then.

Just because you don't like the character does not mean they are not popular. Oghern ws the most popular non LI party member from Origins.

[scmadsen]

kraidy1117 wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I agree with you in theory I'm just judging by BW's past actions, moving from ME1 to ME2 and with DA:  Awakening.  I don't expect every ME2 squad mate to return as squad mates...maybe some of the most popular, but not all.

I've used all these arguments in the past to justify why BW would have all the surviving ME1 crew in ME2 but I was proven wrong.

Like the dwarf...because be we all know everyone loved him...right...by that logic...guess what...Jacob is coming back...but wait, he's a LI...so that won't work...ok, we'll get Grunt to come back then.

Just because you don't like the character does not mean they are not popular. Oghern ws the most popular non LI party member from Origins.

Oh really...prove it...everyone on these forums moaned for pages and pages, when they picked him...a tiny few liked the idea.

[jlb524]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Wreave won't, Wreave does not want to unite, Wrex does. Wrex being dead is very bad.

Will this effect the plot in a major way though?  Force the player to go waaaay back to ME1 to prevent Wrex's death?  I doubt it.  There might be a minor difference in ME3 but it will be superfiicial.

New ME2 players don't even have the option of having Wrex survive.  Will they miss out in ME3 b/c of this?  Not really.

[kraidy1117]

scmadsen wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I agree with you in theory I'm just judging by BW's past actions, moving from ME1 to ME2 and with DA:  Awakening.  I don't expect every ME2 squad mate to return as squad mates...maybe some of the most popular, but not all.

I've used all these arguments in the past to justify why BW would have all the surviving ME1 crew in ME2 but I was proven wrong.

Like the dwarf...because be we all know everyone loved him...right...by that logic...guess what...Jacob is coming back...but wait, he's a LI...so that won't work...ok, we'll get Grunt to come back then.

Just because you don't like the character does not mean they are not popular. Oghern ws the most popular non LI party member from Origins.

Oh really...prove it...everyone on these forums moaned for pages and pages, when they picked him...a tiny few liked the idea.

because people wanted Leliana, Morrigan or Alistair to come back and the ones like me who knew it would not happen where happy with Ogern. 

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Wreave won't, Wreave does not want to unite, Wrex does. Wrex being dead is very bad.

Will this effect the plot in a major way though?  Force the player to go waaaay back to ME1 to prevent Wrex's death?  I doubt it.  There might be a minor difference in ME3 but it will be superfiicial.

New ME2 players don't even have the option of having Wrex survive.  Will they miss out in ME3 b/c of this?  Not really.

I would like it if ME2 players do get, for lack of a better word, punished for not buying the first game.  Given that this game is singleplayer only, it makes no sense to me to start in the middle and expect the same result as if you started at the beginning.

That'd be like watching Lord of the Rings with the Two Towers.  Sure, you'd get to the same place in the end but the journey would be vastly different, and a whole lot less meaningful.