302 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

tbh i'd rather not see the consequences of most of the side-quest (UNC) stuff from either me1 or me2 in major ways - it reduces rather than expands the galaxy. there's always more to see/do, baddies to kill, why must everything have to have a follow-up? the e-mails worked well in some cases in me2 - acknowledging the first game's actions but not wallowing in them.

also armour classes are ridiculous and kinda redundant, really what real purpose did they serve (other than ticking your all-important rpg-mechanics box, of course)?

i can't see shepard dying again. nor a new normandy - the way me2 is open-ended (and as far as i can tell doesn't have a definitive end-game save) probably means events will pick-up at most a few months after me2 finished.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 avril 2010 - 09:45 .

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Yes, but that's one of the reasons I felt ME2 failed as a sequel. It was bad enough that half the RPG got taken out of it, but on top of that it felt so far removed from the original game plot wise and they did such a horrible job with the consequences from ME1 imports. I can't help but feel that if ME2 was made mostly for the established fans that we would have both A) not lost as much RPG as we did, and had far more meaningful decisions in our transfers.

Of course whole Council thing is going to be almost swept under the rug when you make the default choice for new players who don't import that they got iced. And on top of that we've got the whole Spectre thing, one of the most defining moments of the original game, basically a non-issue entirely. I'd like to be wrong, but I'd like to think that in ME3 the state of The Council and my Spectre status are more than just a few minor comments that effect nothing at all really.

your personal issues with the "rpg" mechanics do not represent the majority of fans of the series. do not allude that they do. if anything me2 was what me1 would have been given the time/experience BW now have.

i agree regarding the council/spectre thing but then BW had to cater for all those choices made in me1 and that limits choices in me2 as much as opening them up. the same is going to impact me3. you can't complain about having the choices and then how they have to be ratified within a coherent narrative.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 avril 2010 - 09:44 .

[Dick Delaware]

Yeah, much like you, I never really cared about the consequences of the sidequests. I kinda hoped Toombs would try to confront me on a random encounter since he was hunting anybody with a Cerberus insignia on their body, but other than that, I didn't care.

Overall, I prefer the stripped-down approach regarding combat.In retrospect, it didn't add anything - you wore pretty much the heaviest armor you could with the best stats. Still, I'd prefer giving Jack something to wear in combat other than nipple coverings, doesn't seem very protective. But we don't need an entire set of useless skills for that, you're right.

I'd be very happy with gameplay similar to ME2, but with a ton of choices and consequences in the form of different quest hubs/allies and enemies/NPC's being different according to the decisions that you've made. Maybe a few more changes to make the shooter mechanics more fluid and less filler areas with chest-high walls, but otherwise, I'm fine.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 20 avril 2010 - 09:47 .

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

The problem is, despite being optional, the loyalty quests are actually listed as being primary quests and not secondary ones. Therefore they really can't be considered as sidequests really, but more as optional main-story quests. If one counts the loyalty quests as being optional primary quests and not as secondary sidequests, then overall if one looks at ME2's sidequests they are 1) extremely limited compared to ME1 and 2) very much lacking in depth or consequences compared to ME1.

I could probably could on one hand the amount of sidequests in ME2 that feel like they might have some depth and consequences in them that may carry over to the third game. In ME1 there were at least a couple of dozen sidequests that felt like they were going to amount to something (and most did, even if a majority of them were only realised in emails or news reports on The Citadel.)

i'd rather have one or two major consequences from the game's major points than any from all of the N7 missions.

You: Shepard, N7, 1st Human Spectre, Saved the Citadel, Killed Sovereign, Destroyed Collectors/Collector base.

N7 mission-merc: some dude you met on a tuesday, not even a footnote in the annals of your life, was the most important day of his life though, because he died. worth a repercussion in me3? an e-mail even? no.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 avril 2010 - 10:04 .

[Terror_K]

Yes, but that's because of the problems inherent in the N7 missions themselves. Unlike ME1's sidequests they don't feel like they need to resolve any further, they lack any real depth and you really don't care that much about them for the most part. ME1's quests may have been mostly the same as far as gameplay and style went, but at least the repetitive centres were wrapped in a coating that could make you care about them and felt like there was more to them. It made sense for them to have consequences you didn't see until the later game. The N7 missions... not so much. They're so isolated and feel so pointless for the most part. There's no interesting personalities or situations that feel like they'll go anywhere beyond the quest itself.



The best consequences that were realised in ME2 from ME1 actually came from sidequests from the original game. Helena Blake, Conrad Verner, Gianna Parasini, Shiala, Nassana's role in the Thane recruitment, etc. were without doubt the best carry-over stuff ME2 had, and they were all from sidequests in the first game. ME3 is going to have next to none of that unless it continues to carry stuff on from the first game because there weren't really any sidequests in ME2 that felt as significant. And considering how disappointing all the major transfer stuff was, particularly after how much the devs hyped up that aspect from before even ME1 was out, I don't expect that ME3 will be doing it any more justice somehow.

[Icinix]

It was hyped to existing customers / fans of ME1 that decisions would carry over and how they influence your story, but after ME2 was released, they said 'we built ME2 as a standalone game' and 'we had to figure out how to carry over decisions' which was almost a concession that it WASN'T built to be carry over decisions originally, and that the story amalgamations were something that was decided AFTER ME2 base plot was done, not as part of the whole thing. I'm fine with that really, and I think it's great that it's there, my issue is as always the hype and marketing of something. If it's said 18 months before the game is released, we can usually dis-regard it, but when it is hyped right up until release, it can feel like a let down if it feels like it doesn't deliver.

So personally I thought mostly it was handled well, but it felt a little light weight. The reactions from some people felt very tacky, I mean Shep having women / asari throwing themselves at him everywhere, then grinning like an idiot. It's Commander Shepard BioWare, not Captain Kirk. My ME1 love interest would not be happy.



Now in the no-man land of hoping for ME3 to really give those decisions made some serious weight and justice they deserve, but thinking that they might get treated much the same as in ME2. Which is still fine and is cool, but they really have the opportunity to do something pretty awesome here and I really hope they take it and run with it.

[Fiery Phoenix]

The majority of the "consequences" of ME1 side-quests were in the form of a few-line email. Personally, this is something I'm not exactly too happy about. I think they could have made things a little more significant in that particular department, but we ended up with emails. On the other hand, I ultimately don't mind it. I was just hoping for something "bigger".

[FluxDeluxe]

Mass Effect needed a reboot, that's what the second one delivered. However why they would take Mass Effect 3 as stand alone is beyond me. They've established the threat in the first one they bridged the gap in the second, if the third doesn't give us some real truly satisfying answers i'll be extremely annoyed.

[Garuda One]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

The majority of the "consequences" of ME1 side-quests were in the form of a few-line email. Personally, this is something I'm not exactly too happy about. I think they could have made things a little more significant in that particular department, but we ended up with emails. On the other hand, I ultimately don't mind it. I was just hoping for something "bigger".

I was hoping for something bigger as well because I play all of my console games on a 10inch screen. Seen below.



My eyes bleed when I try and read what there saying... text to small -eyes pop-

[Fiery Phoenix]

Wow, dude! That's a SDTV, right?

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Yes, but that's because of the problems inherent in the N7 missions themselves. Unlike ME1's sidequests they don't feel like they need to resolve any further, they lack any real depth and you really don't care that much about them for the most part. ME1's quests may have been mostly the same as far as gameplay and style went, but at least the repetitive centres were wrapped in a coating that could make you care about them and felt like there was more to them. It made sense for them to have consequences you didn't see until the later game. The N7 missions... not so much. They're so isolated and feel so pointless for the most part. There's no interesting personalities or situations that feel like they'll go anywhere beyond the quest itself.

The best consequences that were realised in ME2 from ME1 actually came from sidequests from the original game. Helena Blake, Conrad Verner, Gianna Parasini, Shiala, Nassana's role in the Thane recruitment, etc. were without doubt the best carry-over stuff ME2 had, and they were all from sidequests in the first game. ME3 is going to have next to none of that unless it continues to carry stuff on from the first game because there weren't really any sidequests in ME2 that felt as significant. And considering how disappointing all the major transfer stuff was, particularly after how much the devs hyped up that aspect from before even ME1 was out, I don't expect that ME3 will be doing it any more justice somehow.

they were completely minor parts of the game - mass effect 2 had many more major missions - all the plot worlds and the loyalty quests, meant that you didn't need to rely on very minor characters on N7 missions for any consequence going forward. i know which one i prefer...

and conrad was a joke, nassana could (and maybe should) have been any asari with no change to gameplay/consequence.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 avril 2010 - 02:03 .

[Garuda One]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Wow, dude! That's a SDTV, right?

Damn straight it is!

[Fiery Phoenix]

Garuda One wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Wow, dude! That's a SDTV, right?

Damn straight it is!

Well, you know you wouldn't hurt your eyes if you played on a decent HDTV.

I personally play on a 32" Sharp Aquos LCD screen (720p setting). Everything is perfectly readable, even from several feet away. I highly recommend that you do.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 20 avril 2010 - 02:50 .

[Ghoulees]

With the establishment now of th Cerberus Network, I would hope that ME3 is made MORE as the conclusion to a trilogy, than a standalone title.



I've mentioned in other posts that I hope there are definitive moments in ME3 where we clearly choose sides for either..... Alliance, Cerberus, Council, or Freelance based on our characters experience in the previous games.



Deep down I debate this 'decision tracking' they mention. I think it is nothing more than a cursory 'ticking of boxes' in the dialogue options. The ending story though is still going to be pre written with just a handful of final choices and endings, leaving those previous decisions as quite hollow.



ME1 games conclusion decisions came down to:

1) love interest

2) Wrex lived or died.

3) Council lived or dies.



Me2 game conclusions come down to

1) love interest

2) which squad members survive

3) Did you hand over assets to Cerberus or did you destroy them?



I don't see how any of this equates to 1000's of decisions to be tracked.



Smoke and mirrors people, smoke and mirrors. *crosses fingers, "Bioware, please prove it isn't so".

[SpiderFan1217]

(Crosses Fingers.)

Modifié par SpiderFan1217, 20 avril 2010 - 03:04 .

[badkenbad]

Garuda One wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

The majority of the "consequences" of ME1 side-quests were in the form of a few-line email. Personally, this is something I'm not exactly too happy about. I think they could have made things a little more significant in that particular department, but we ended up with emails. On the other hand, I ultimately don't mind it. I was just hoping for something "bigger".

I was hoping for something bigger as well because I play all of my console games on a 10inch screen. Seen below.



My eyes bleed when I try and read what there saying... text to small -eyes pop-

Here you go, man: 15 inch portable LCD HDTV for $80.
Stop killing your eyes.

[aksoileau]

Guys relax. Read the article. It will standalone for newcomers because they won't be importing, but importers get 1000 choices to carry over. Chill.

[DoomedMello]

If they make it so that ME3 is standalone, they are really going to be dumbing down gameplay and plot. Better yet, that would eliminate many things that could happen to Shepard regarding his/her choices.



On a somewhat related topic, is anyone but me curious as to what will happen to Shepard and his/her LI. Personally, I think it would be very touching if Shep and his/ her LI got married, or something. It would be a pretty good ending to that whole 'storyline'

[Dick Delaware]

Ahahahahaha, that is spot-on.

[Darth Drago]

aksoileau wrote...

Guys relax. Read the article. It will standalone for newcomers because they won't be importing, but importers get 1000 choices to carry over. Chill.

-Just like ME2.


We don’t need another rebooting or standalone episode in the trilogy.

You don’t see the heroes in Return of the King spend the first 30 minutes of the film/book retelling what happened in the last two chapters. Nor did you see Neo stand up in front of a crowd and say “..this is why we are fighting the machines and by the way the matrix is a dream in case you forgot“.

In the same context both of those trilogies also had a solid middle part. A part that didn’t seem to forget practically everything that happened or the basic lore set in the first part. ME2 brought in thermal clips trying to be clever with something that is nothing more than an ammo system. The council (either one you get) are again morons. No one in C-Sec knows what a Geth looks like after all the eyewitnesses that saw them in ME1 or the reported sightings in ME2 as told by Anderson. A simple carbon dating test on any chunk of Sovereign that they did recover, would have at least proven it wasn’t a Geth ship… Its like the game universe characters fell out of the stupidity tree and hit every branch on the way down in the last 2 years. Sorry for the little rant on that..

The point is with something that will be designed to be a stand alone game like ME3 will apparently be. The developers will again have to retell what happened in both ME1 and ME2 just to keep all those new players that don’t like shooter games (that ME3 will be likely aimed at now) just to get them up to speed on the story.

[Iakus]

Darth Drago wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Guys relax. Read the article. It will standalone for newcomers because they won't be importing, but importers get 1000 choices to carry over. Chill.

-Just like ME2.


We don’t need another rebooting or standalone episode in the trilogy.

You don’t see the heroes in Return of the King spend the first 30 minutes of the film/book retelling what happened in the last two chapters. Nor did you see Neo stand up in front of a crowd and say “..this is why we are fighting the machines and by the way the matrix is a dream in case you forgot“.

In the same context both of those trilogies also had a solid middle part. A part that didn’t seem to forget practically everything that happened or the basic lore set in the first part. ME2 brought in thermal clips trying to be clever with something that is nothing more than an ammo system. The council (either one you get) are again morons. No one in C-Sec knows what a Geth looks like after all the eyewitnesses that saw them in ME1 or the reported sightings in ME2 as told by Anderson. A simple carbon dating test on any chunk of Sovereign that they did recover, would have at least proven it wasn’t a Geth ship… Its like the game universe characters fell out of the stupidity tree and hit every branch on the way down in the last 2 years. Sorry for the little rant on that..

The point is with something that will be designed to be a stand alone game like ME3 will apparently be. The developers will again have to retell what happened in both ME1 and ME2 just to keep all those new players that don’t like shooter games (that ME3 will be likely aimed at now) just to get them up to speed on the story.

In addition:  Since there is so much comparison to this game being "The Empire Strikes Back" for the trilogy, how much retelling of the trilogy was done in "Return of the Jedi"?  Two lines, maybe?  "Yep, Han's still frozen"  and 'That stuff Vader said?  All true"

IMO if you have to put a number after the title, it's not a standalone game  CoEspecially if it's been promoted as a series since the beginning

[Dick Delaware]

Darth Drago wrote...
You don’t see the heroes in Return of the King spend the first 30 minutes of the film/book retelling what happened in the last two chapters. Nor did you see Neo stand up in front of a crowd and say “..this is why we are fighting the machines and by the way the matrix is a dream in case you forgot“.

In the same context both of those trilogies also had a solid middle part. A part that didn’t seem to forget practically everything that happened or the basic lore set in the first part. ME2 brought in thermal clips trying to be clever with something that is nothing more than an ammo system. The council (either one you get) are again morons. No one in C-Sec knows what a Geth looks like after all the eyewitnesses that saw them in ME1 or the reported sightings in ME2 as told by Anderson. A simple carbon dating test on any chunk of Sovereign that they did recover, would have at least proven it wasn’t a Geth ship… Its like the game universe characters fell out of the stupidity tree and hit every branch on the way down in the last 2 years. Sorry for the little rant on that..

I don't mind if they spend 30 minutes in ME3 retelling the events of the past two games to get new players up to speed. The finale is going to be 30 - 40 hours anyways, I'd rather spend 30 minutes of that time hearing about all the awesome stuff I did in the last two games than driving around in a Mako on barren planets with nothing to do or planet scanning.

The only thing I really want to see are solid repercussions based on choices you've made in ME1 and ME2. New quest hubs (i.e. an entirely new planet to visit if you've saved the Queen, The Collector Base if you've allied yourself with Cerberus) / NPC's / returning companions / and different allies and enemies (i.e. geth are hostile if you've told the quarians to go to war, Cerberus is hostile if you've screwed over The Illusive Man). That kinda stuff. Similar gameplay mechanics to the second game with a few innovations to make things interesting + ass-biting consequences + the same writers and I'm happy.

Admittedly, the dialogue you get if you save the Council was pretty dumb, though, so I agree with you there.

Darth Drago wrote...
The point is with something that will be designed to be a stand alone game like ME3 will apparently be. The developers will again have to retell what happened in both ME1 and ME2 just to keep all those new players that don’t like shooter games (that ME3 will be likely aimed at now) just to get them up to speed on the story.

Oh, please. Big deal, there's a section that allows players unfamiliar with the first two games to get up to speed with events, I don't see why that's a bad thing. It's bad if what you've done in ME1 and ME2 doesn't matter at all, not if you get a quick, succinct synopsis of the events of the last two games.

And I actually like the better shooter mechanics anyways. ME1 was an RPG-lite anyways - it's character system was hardly any more complicated than the sequels. By the time you hit Level 50 in ME1, you've got most of the skills you need maxed out anyways. I thought ME1 was pretty good, but there are some serious rose-coloured goggles being worn on this thread.

[EAWare_amirite]

"I thought ME1 was pretty good, but there are some serious rose-coloured goggles being worn on this thread."



Odd how it is more acceptable around here to say you like KOTOR or BG2 over ME2, but if someone says they liked ME1 more accusations of nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses get thrown around.

I recently got ME1 after ME2, I think ME1 kicks ass and is better than ME2 so far.

Saren is pretty cool.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Why did you make the game’s decision-making structure such a large part of the game?

LOL.

Having read the interview it's clear it was biased ass kissing.