302 réponses à ce sujet

[spacehamsterZH]

Can anyone who's seriously disappointed by the way the decisions from ME1 were carried over point to a few examples of videogames that allowed you to import a save file from another game and made those decisions matter to the extent that they wanted them to matter in ME2? Preferably games where story sequences are staged with the same production values, i.e. elaborate dialogue sequences with full voice acting and complex facial animation. Because I don't know any.

If you feel like you've been misled by the promises for ME2, fine. But honestly, I think what some of you guys expected goes really, really far if you think about how difficult it would be to actually implement it in a functioning videogame (you're practically asking for completely diverging storylines from the get-go), so you might want to think twice about believing every word you read in an advertisement for a videogame. Advertising always exaggerates everything.

What bothers me more is that reading interviews with Casey Hudson always makes me feel like I'm looking at a PR release. With all due respect given where I'm posting this and the fact that I've sunk nearly 200 hours of my life into playing Mass Effect games, but does this guy ever talk like a real person?

[Collider]

Just the way businesses are, spacehamster.

[spacehamsterZH]

Collider wrote...

Just the way businesses are, spacehamster.

I dunno, I realize this guy's pretty high up in the food chain, and I don't read/watch that many interviews with game developers, but what I have read usually isn't this... obnoxiously professional.

[Ray Joel Oh]

spacehamsterZH wrote...
What bothers me more is that reading interviews with Casey Hudson always makes me feel like I'm looking at a PR release. With all due respect given where I'm posting this and the fact that I've sunk nearly 200 hours of my life into playing Mass Effect games, but does this guy ever talk like a real person?

His job is to sell a product.  It's annoying but it's what people with his job do.  And honestly, every ambitious endeavor sets its sights too high in the beginning.  Even if at this point they have it written on a bulletin board somewhere to have 1000 effects of your choices in ME3, as they chug along and start spending money, that number is going to go down.  Doesn't mean it will be a bad game, but part of what makes their projects good is they aim high enough to leave a lot of room for them to still fall short comfortably.

[spacehamsterZH]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...
And honestly, every ambitious endeavor sets its sights too high in the beginning.  Even if at this point they have it written on a bulletin board somewhere to have 1000 effects of your choices in ME3, as they chug along and start spending money, that number is going to go down.  Doesn't mean it will be a bad game, but part of what makes their projects good is they aim high enough to leave a lot of room for them to still fall short comfortably.

All very true, and given what I read here the other day about all the unfinished content people have supposedly found in Baldur's Gate, it looks like they've always operated like this and it's not EsAtan's fault, ahem.

Like I said, I get that it's his job to talk up BW's games, but choosing a tone that will be relatable to your customer base might be a PR strategy worth considering seeing as how the way this stuff reads makes him sound like exactly the kind of soulless money-grubbing businessman the disappointed ME1 fans on these forums seem to think he is.

Not that I ultimately give a damn who makes this stuff and how they present themselves in interviews as long as the games are good, it's just something I've noticed.

[TheTWF]

We'll see.

[Ray Joel Oh]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

All very true, and given what I read here the other day about all the unfinished content people have supposedly found in Baldur's Gate, it looks like they've always operated like this and it's not EsAtan's fault, ahem.

Like I said, I get that it's his job to talk up BW's games, but choosing a tone that will be relatable to your customer base might be a PR strategy worth considering seeing as how the way this stuff reads makes him sound like exactly the kind of soulless money-grubbing businessman the disappointed ME1 fans on these forums seem to think he is.

Not that I ultimately give a damn who makes this stuff and how they present themselves in interviews as long as the games are good, it's just something I've noticed.

I think it sounds that way to us because we care a lot more and have grown more cynical to these announcements.  If you are somebody flipping through game magazines and read an article about 1000 choices from Mass Effect 2 to Mass Effect 3, you just think "Whoa that's a really big number!!"

[Jackal904]

IccaRa wrote...

I'm aware of what he meant by standalone when it comes to the overall story arch and gameplay, etc. My only concern lies with the ME2 squadmates.

Yeah I know. But they've spent a ton of time designing these characters. Their looks, backstories, personalities. I don't think they would let that go to waste by making them anything less than a squadmate in ME3. And it would be wasteful to spend time creating a new squad when we have 12 perfectly good squadmates all ready to go. We have grown attached to these characters, who are some of the most memorable characters in a video game (even Jacob, you'll never be able to forget "The priiiize."). It would be down-right idiotic to take them away from the players.

Collider wrote...

I fear for them too, though I'm not sure one can gather concern for the squad mates from this comment in particular. The greatest hope so far seems to be an interview where the Casey said

You will definitely be able to see characters from ME2 in ME3, as long as they're alive in the end of your story. It's a challenge for sure, but it's also going to be a huge payoff for players of the Mass Effect trilogy to see what happens with all these characters and storylines started by the first two games.

Nice find Collider, I have not read that interview. It still doesn't clarify whether all ME2 squadmates will be squadmates in ME3, but it sure does give a bright glimmer of hope.

Modifié par Jackal904, 17 avril 2010 - 06:19 .

[Collider]

Jackal is right. Throwing these characters away is wasteful. The entirety of ME2 is pretty much negated if they are not returning in more than cameos. We spent almost all of ME2 recruiting them, earning their loyalty, and making sure they survive.

[Ecael]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Collider wrote...

Just the way businesses are, spacehamster.

I dunno, I realize this guy's pretty high up in the food chain, and I don't read/watch that many interviews with game developers, but what I have read usually isn't this... obnoxiously professional.

Well, he is the Lead Game Designer.

[Eradyn]

Jackal904 wrote...

IccaRa wrote...

I'm aware of what he meant by standalone when it comes to the overall story arch and gameplay, etc. My only concern lies with the ME2 squadmates.

Yeah I know. But they've spent a ton of time designing these characters. Their looks, backstories, personalities. I don't think they would let that go to waste by making them anything less than a squadmate in ME3. And it would be wasteful to spend time creating a new squad when we have 12 perfectly good squadmates all ready to go. We have grown attached to these characters, who are some of the most memorable characters in a video game (even Jacob, you'll never be able to forget "The priiiize."). It would be down-right idiotic to take them away from the players.

Collider wrote...

I fear for them too, though I'm not sure one can gather concern for the squad mates from this comment in particular. The greatest hope so far seems to be an interview where the Casey said

You will definitely be able to see characters from ME2 in ME3, as long as they're alive in the end of your story. It's a challenge for sure, but it's also going to be a huge payoff for players of the Mass Effect trilogy to see what happens with all these characters and storylines started by the first two games.

Nice find Collider, I have not read that interview. It still doesn't clarify whether all ME2 squadmates will be squadmates in ME3, but it sure does give a bright glimmer of hope.

That was one of my greatest fears.  I was very upset with what they were doing from ME1 to ME2...and it appears my concerns may very well be justified going from ME2 to ME3.  Now BW has set a precedence, and with these comments it is even more concerning.  Yes, yes, I'm sure ME3 will be a wonderful game...but will it be as great as it could be? I don't hold out a lot of hope at this point, judging by these interview comments and what they did with ME2.  We'll see, though...maybe BW really will pull out all the stops and create an absolutely awesome game with truly meaningful consequences and story branches...and not a slew of half-assed, dead-end emails and news blurbs that are really just a giant middle-finger to those who played through the first of the trilogy.  And a new team? I can see it already...

[ToJKa1]

I'd imagine the team in ME3 will be comprised mostly of people form ME 2, with returning ME 1 characters (mainly thinking Ashley/Kaidan and/or Liara here, i doubt Wrex will be returning). It would get a bit ridiculous to recruit a whole new team every game.

[Ray Joel Oh]

I can hardly believe people are still considering the possibility of Liara and Ashley/Kaiden not coming back. It's practically inevitable. Their treatment in ME2 was disheartening but you don't have stories where the main character falls in love in the first act, hits a rough patch in the second act, and everybody just forgets about it in the third act. They wouldn't have been there at all if there weren't some plans for them to come back and resume the relationship.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 17 avril 2010 - 06:35 .

[Darth Drago]

Doesn’t surprise me at all to read what he says…. Not a bit.

“Q: You said that the development team was able to track 700 choices from Mass Effect and incorporate them into Mass Effect 2. And, you plan to have more than 1,000 decisions tracked for Mass Effect 3. Why?

A: When you think about hundreds of choices, your selection is going make your experience different from somebody else's. And we try to think of those scenarios as water cooler moments. We want something interesting to come out it. Then you realize that the experience you're getting is customized to the game you're playing.”

-So we can expect a lot more Conrad Verner like bugs and a ton of short and pointless text only letters from people we may or may not even care about. Cant wait!



“Q: Mass Effect 3 was announced some time ago. But your work on ME2 showed that while the decision structure carried over, the story itself is fairly separate from the first game. Why is that?

A: All of the the Mass Effect titles standalone. The beginning of Mass Effect 2 is really meant to let players experience Mass Effect for the first time. We really want to look at Mass Effect 3 as a standalone title where the ending is going to feel satisfying.

The other thing, for people who played the first two games, is that the third is really the fruition of all the choices you made. So in a way, Mass Effect 2 was the most difficult to make because we had to not only bring in things you've done before but think about what's coming for the future. Now it's really about how things come to a conclusion.”

-Spoken by someone who apparently doesn’t watch movie trilogies. Not a surprise really to read her view on this series. You don’t make each part of a trilogy stand fully on its own. The first part sure, it works to lure in the viewer/player but not the second and third parts. The Matrix trilogy for example, you can not go watch the third one without seeing the second one. You wouldn’t understand what the hell is going on. The same thing with the Lord of the Rings trilogy. You may like the single film and how it end the trilogy but you wont get the full epic story by a long shot. In the gaming world the only real trilogy of games I have would be Halo 1-3. Players can hop into Halo 3 without knowing what is going on but again they will not get the full scope of the epic scale of the story. The Mass Effect trilogy should be treated in the same way but it sounds like it will be more like the Mad Max trilogy in where each game will be a stand alone experience resulting in a not so epic ending for those who have been with the series since its beginning.

So Mass Effect 3 will likely be a re-rebooting of Mass Effect 1. You’ll spend a lot of time in the game being told what you already know from playing the first two games or have moronic dialog choices worded like “Genophage, whats that?” or “Tell me (again for the third time) about the Quarian flotilla.” Sounds so much fun already.
Sorry BioWare but I think I’ll wait until ME3 is a $20 game before even considering getting it. You pretty much screwed me over with all the drastic changes you made for ME2 (some good, most not). I will not blindly buy another game from this company especially with Mass Effect in the title.

Yet when I voice my gripes about ME2 I’m a nitpicker and in nerd rage. Wonder how my gripes will look when ME3 comes out?

　
　
　

Modifié par Darth Drago, 17 avril 2010 - 07:30 .

[IccaRa]

Some people are concerned because the way some ME1 team mates and decisions carried over in ME2 was not to their satisfaction, all because it made ME2 easier to implement as a standalone title that still maintains the capability of transferring decisions.



This is new territory and I admire BioWare's gutsy approach, but many people got their hopes up for ME2 due to the It Will All Matter hype and they got burned. I can't fault them for being concerned over similar vibes popping up as it concerns ME3 (even if it's a bit early for that.)



My hopes and desires are one thing, my expectations are another.

[Collider]

I was under the impression that Ashley/Kaidan and Liara were sidelined specifically so they could survive to have integral roles in ME3. It's much easier on the writers if they know that these two characters will survive for certain. ME3 is the last in the trilogy. ME2 couldn't have gone all out with the choice consequence or we'd potentially have wildly different scenarios. In ME3 they can go all out because they don't have to worry about importing to ME4.

[Dethateer]

Collider wrote...

I was under the impression that Ashley/Kaidan and Liara were sidelined specifically so they could survive to have integral roles in ME3. It's much easier on the writers if they know that these two characters will survive for certain. ME3 is the last in the trilogy. ME2 couldn't have gone all out with the choice consequence or we'd potentially have wildly different scenarios. In ME3 they can go all out because they don't have to worry about importing to ME4.

Isn't that the whole point of making decisions?

[Ray Joel Oh]

Darth Drago wrote...


Doesn’t surprise me at all to read what she says…. Not a bit.

Not that it matters, but Casey Hudson is a dude.

[Jackal904]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I can hardly believe people are still considering the possibility of Liara and Ashley/Kaiden not coming back. It's practically inevitable. Their treatment in ME2 was disheartening but you don't have stories where the main character falls in love in the first act, hits a rough patch in the second act, and everybody just forgets about it in the third act. They wouldn't have been there at all if there weren't some plans for them to come back and resume the relationship.

Exactly. In a different interview with Casey Hudson, he says that Ashley/Kaiden and Liara will have a much more significant role in ME3 than in ME2.

Modifié par Jackal904, 17 avril 2010 - 06:42 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Dethateer wrote...

Isn't that the whole point of making decisions?

Yeah but they don't want to rob you of the chance to play out a nice romantic climax that they've set up in favor of putting around with your BF/GF before accidentally getting them Virmired on the Collector Base.

[cruc1al]

Not having read the whole thread, I have this to say about the ME3 standalone issue. I suppose it's going to be much like with ME2. Its story is loosely tied to the events of ME1 and some characters are the same, yet fans of ME1 were on the whole not disappointed with ME2. ME3 will not be a direct continuation of ME2 (after all what is the direct continuation to having completed the mission of defeating the Collectors?); but rather a pulling-together of the story from both previous titles in a way that is playable as a standalone game like ME2 is.

Modifié par cruc1al, 17 avril 2010 - 06:45 .

[Collider]

Dethateer wrote...

Collider wrote...

I was under the impression that Ashley/Kaidan and Liara were sidelined specifically so they could survive to have integral roles in ME3. It's much easier on the writers if they know that these two characters will survive for certain. ME3 is the last in the trilogy. ME2 couldn't have gone all out with the choice consequence or we'd potentially have wildly different scenarios. In ME3 they can go all out because they don't have to worry about importing to ME4.

Isn't that the whole point of making decisions?

Think of this. If you saved the council in ME, instead of having to join Cerberus, you join the Council and they help you against the Reapers. The game would be entirely different. That's a lot of work for something that many players wouldn't do, in the middle of the trilogy. ME3 is different because they CAN have those wildly different scenarios because you won't be importing to anything.

[Dethateer]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Isn't that the whole point of making decisions?

Yeah but they don't want to rob you of the chance to play out a nice romantic climax that they've set up in favor of putting around with your BF/GF before accidentally getting them Virmired on the Collector Base.

But where's the fun in it happening regardless of what you do? They don't rob you of anything, it's your own failure at keeping them alive that does that.

[Dethateer]

Collider wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Collider wrote...

I was under the impression that Ashley/Kaidan and Liara were sidelined specifically so they could survive to have integral roles in ME3. It's much easier on the writers if they know that these two characters will survive for certain. ME3 is the last in the trilogy. ME2 couldn't have gone all out with the choice consequence or we'd potentially have wildly different scenarios. In ME3 they can go all out because they don't have to worry about importing to ME4.

Isn't that the whole point of making decisions?

Think of this. If you saved the council in ME, instead of having to join Cerberus, you join the Council and they help you against the Reapers. The game would be entirely different. That's a lot of work for something that many players wouldn't do, in the middle of the trilogy. ME3 is different because they CAN have those wildly different scenarios because you won't be importing to anything.

Or, y'know, they aren't simply relegated to dismissing what you say instantly and disregarding the Reapers.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Dethateer wrote...

But where's the fun in it happening regardless of what you do? They don't rob you of anything, it's your own failure at keeping them alive that does that.

There's fun and then there's budgeting resources.  My guess is that Ashley/Kaiden and Liara are going to play a critical part in the final story's plot, more critical than anything the ME2 characters could possibly get, and having them die would screw it up.  There's making your choices matter and there's needing to write two entirely separate plot arcs.

Of course at this point it's all speculation, but that's my prediction.