302 réponses à ce sujet

[ResidentNoob]

We really want to look at Mass Effect 3 as a standalone title...

I trust that I'm not the only one worried about this, right?

The way that I see it, ME3 will either be an epic failure (in our eyes, anyways), or they completely go back on this and make it the most epic game of all time.

Seriously, screw standalone titles, Bioware; if you decide to make an RPG where your decisions carry over between games, it needs to be a true continuation of the two previous games, not a game that can even possibly be treated as a standalone title. Don't do it, Casey; otherwise you'll forever lose the support of almost everyone on these forums, and you usually don't go on this forum unless you really care about what happens to the franchise.

Then again, I don't see why people are complaining about ME2 a few months after the game comes out, when none of the mods are likely to be reading. We should just wait until we know that they're permanently on the forums(probably after a trailer gets released or something), and then bombard them with everything at once. At least it'll get the message across, eh?

[this isnt my name]

Jackal904 wrote...

IccaRa wrote...

I'm aware of what he meant by standalone when it comes to the overall story arch and gameplay, etc. My only concern lies with the ME2 squadmates.

Yeah I know. But they've spent a ton of time designing these characters. Their looks, backstories, personalities. I don't think they would let that go to waste by making them anything less than a squadmate in ME3. And it would be wasteful to spend time creating a new squad when we have 12 perfectly good squadmates all ready to go. We have grown attached to these characters, who are some of the most memorable characters in a video game (even Jacob, you'll never be able to forget "The priiiize."). It would be down-right idiotic to take them away from the players.

Collider wrote...

I fear for them too, though I'm not sure one can gather concern for the squad mates from this comment in particular. The greatest hope so far seems to be an interview where the Casey said

You will definitely be able to see characters from ME2 in ME3, as long as they're alive in the end of your story. It's a challenge for sure, but it's also going to be a huge payoff for players of the Mass Effect trilogy to see what happens with all these characters and storylines started by the first two games.

Nice find Collider, I have not read that interview. It still doesn't clarify whether all ME2 squadmates will be squadmates in ME3, but it sure does give a bright glimmer of hope.

The fact they return means nothing, Ash/Kaiden, Liara and Wrex returned, its sad that conrad verner had ab bigger role than them... He needs to specify is camo or as actual squadmates.

[Kenthen]

I'm not going to say Bioware is pissing in my Cheerios until we actually get closeer to the release of ME3, y'know, so we actually know how it's going to be handled.
I have to say I'm much less hopeful about the future than I was after I had just finished ME2 though.
I mean, saying that "you will be able to see characters from ME2" is not unlike saying that "you will be able to see Kaidan/Ash in ME2" and although I could get past them not being recruitable since there's still ME3, the cameo was small and very unsatisfying.
I'm also skeptical when it comes to how they'll handle the choices from the two previous games if they're at the same time trying to keep ME3 as accessible as possible to people new to the story.

Modifié par Kenthen, 17 avril 2010 - 10:00 .

[RiouHotaru]

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

I don't think a decision needs a major plot point or cutscene to feel meaningful.  The fact that my decisions had any impact, even if it wasn't a visible one, made me feel proud that I went out of my way during my playthrough to fulfill these quests under those conditions, and to see how those people were doing.  Admittedly, meeting Talitha probably would've had a much bigger emotional impact, but even her heartfelt email was enough to instill in me a sense of pride.  Meaning Helena Blake on Omega and feeling glad I talked her down rather than killing her, laughing at Fist because his life is in the crapper now.  All of that felt like an accomplishment on my part.

Also, I do think we'll be seeing ME3 by the end of the year, at minimum.  They were already in development for ME3 while working on ME2, and we know they're not going to be reinventing the foundational engine or system, so we won't have a debacle like the End Game Save Scare we had back during Christmas of last year.  Have some faith that Bioware can pull through.  Sure, ME2 wasn't EVERYTHING we wanted it to be, but can you really say that you truly didn't enjoy it?  That it wasn't loads of fun?

As for the whole 'standalone' thing, it's been said several times.  It's standalone so that people who pick up the game on the third installment can play it without being completely lost.  I realize this makes the rest of you seasoned gamers feel like you're being ignored, but if Bioware only catered to the ME fans, their sales would likely be ass-tastic by comparison.  They have to think like a business, which means they have to be willing to cater to more than just us.

[jlb524]

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

[WilliamShatner]

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

It's not suprising at all that people felt nothing from those e-mails.  BioWare forget a key storytelling rule:  show, don't tell.  Show people the effect of their decisions, don't tell them it in an e-mail.  

[WilliamShatner]

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

And like that... they're gone!

[RiouHotaru]

WilliamShatner wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

It's not suprising at all that people felt nothing from those e-mails.  BioWare forget a key storytelling rule:  show, don't tell.  Show people the effect of their decisions, don't tell them it in an e-mail.  

I guess I must be an outlier or something.

[ThisIsMadness91]

The e-mails were touching, but didn't affect the gameplay or story in any way. I wish I could actually see how the Zhu's Hope colony is doing, rather than only get to speak to one representative.

[BeresaadSoldier]

There are 2 things that are contradictory here: cinematic experience and stand-alone title. Bioware combined those 2 in ME2, but they were able to pull it off because it's the middle one in the series. Cinematic experience speaks for itself - it plays like a movie, storyline is as tight as in a good book, yet flexible enough to give sufficient control to the players. Stand-alone title in that context breaks the storyline by redundancy alone and detracts from the whole experience because instead of adding richer story elements, developers are focused on making it noob-friendly. Bioware, how many people do you think will give money for a game where you're including redundant content? It's like buying an album and then being forced to buy a different album, but a few of the songs are the same across both. A sensible person would just buy the singles to fill in the missing pieces (just like with the story). Except, in this case we aren't given a choice. Hell, money matters aside most of your fans will be seeing a summary of past events for the THIRD time. Too much is too much.

[Weskerr]

"A: All of the the Mass Effect titles
standalone. The beginning of Mass Effect 2 is really meant to let
players experience Mass Effect for the first time. We really want to look at Mass Effect 3 as a
standalone title where the ending is going to feel satisfying."

How can ME3 possibly be a standalone title if it's supposed to be the resolution of the Reaper story from ME1 and ME2? It's not possible unless Bioware does not plan on resolving the overarching story.

Modifié par Weskerr, 17 avril 2010 - 10:34 .

[xCirdanx]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I guess I must be an outlier or something.

You aren´t. I understand your point, some of these mails were ok, and sometimes weren´t about such an important moment/decision in ME1. (however that´s in the eye of the beholder)

I realy liked the Rachnii Queen message, and that´s the point, there should be more of these i think. When i get an email from Emily Wong inviting me to visit her on the citadel, i also want to be able to do that. So a little bit more "show and interact" rather than tell almost all, would have been nice

[spacehamsterZH]

By the way, I know the Alarmist Squad is going to ignore this post, but don't you guys think it's at least possible that saying they're all "standalone" games is just part of the marketing spin? Of course he's going to say that, it would be pretty stupid if he went around basically telling everyone "if you haven't played the previous games, don't bother." Same reason he insisted that ME2 is a shooter when anyone who knows what a shooter is can clearly see it's not. I realize the people who are up in arms about this interview are probably also the people who actually do think ME2 is a shooter, so I'm sure this'll fall on deaf ears, but... yeah.

[Collider]

Also a good point spacehamster.

[Barquiel]

I think some choices were better than others.
For example, Shiala and Gianna Parasini...it was nice to see them again:wub:
I like some emails too: Sha'ira, Lizbeth or Kate Bowman

But the "big" choices were disappointing IMO
- council, Virmire, LI

[Iakus]

WilliamShatner wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

It's not suprising at all that people felt nothing from those e-mails.  BioWare forget a key storytelling rule:  show, don't tell.  Show people the effect of their decisions, don't tell them it in an e-mail.  

I wholeheartedly agree.

The emails were...okay I guess.  But I get a much bigger kick acually getting to actually SEE the results of my actions.  Catching up with Parasini over a beer is much more satisfying than going through "glad you're not dead" emails.   The message from the Racni queen is an exceptioon, since it was done via a method other than email, and gave a hint of foreshadowing for ME3, ie "gave me someting to look forward to"

[RiouHotaru]

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

Man, I love how I express an opinion different from the masses and get ridiculed for it.  Always fun.  I never said there should be more.  I mean, would you have rather had NO recognition for your actions or decisions, rather than the emails?  Not to mention there's a pretty good justification for the emails anyway.

[Kenthen]

RiouHotaru wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

I mean, would you have rather had NO recognition for your actions or decisions, rather than the emails?

The question is silly. I would rather have none of the above.

[RiouHotaru]

Kenthen wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

I mean, would you have rather had NO recognition for your actions or decisions, rather than the emails?

The question is silly. I would rather have none of the above.

Ladies and gentleman, we have reached a consensus.  The Bioware community consists of two things:

http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase This!  And...

http://tvtropes.org/...Main/BrokenBase This! 

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 17 avril 2010 - 11:18 .

[WilliamShatner]

RiouHotaru wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

Man, I love how I express an opinion different from the masses and get ridiculed for it.  Always fun.  I never said there should be more.  I mean, would you have rather had NO recognition for your actions or decisions, rather than the emails?  Not to mention there's a pretty good justification for the emails anyway.

I would have rather then concentrate on the 3-4 big decisions in ME and getting them right, then spend time on these piddily little e-mails if they had the time.  I expected the choices about the council, Anderson or Udina, our LI interest and Virmire to have a big impact on ME2.  They didn't.  I didn't actually expect to hear anything from the minor characters like Passini, Shiala or Kate because those decisions felt like they had their resolutions in ME, whereas the big choices were clearly left open for the sequel and were choices that screamed "This will affect the next game!". 

Conrad Verner had more time and resources put into him than our LI.  That's just plain wrong.

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 17 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[mmmu]

I wouldn't worry about the comments too much. The comments can be read in multiple different ways and in these scenarios as proven in the past (f/f comments by Hudson e.g.). As someone else pointed out somewhere in the discussion here there are blatant statements saying that ME3 will bring a sense of closure and conclusion to the questions raised.

I think it's important to note the part about him saying that the end would feel satisfying while saying that it should work as a standalone title. Now this can be understood in the way that he means that if you have not played the earlier parts of the trilogy it is still standalone _enough_ for a new player to feel satisfactory at the end of ME3. This is probably meaning that we'll have another substory for ME3, sure, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily neglecting the whole story. I for one am not worried, I do believe we will have our trilogy end the only way it could end; magnificently.



There's no point reading in too deep into these comments. When a comment has a hint of negative tone it's easy to misread and jump to conclusions. Let's not! And one more fact to note that it's a smart marketing man speaking. If he answered "ME3 will not be playable as a standalone title" it would mean no new players would be buying it - sure they could buy the previous ones first but meh, players are what they are.

[Kusy]

Everything's friggin fine...

Q: You said that the development team was able to track 700 choices from Mass Effect and incorporate them into Mass Effect 2. And, you plan to have more than 1,000 decisions tracked for Mass Effect 3. Why?

Now could I have a list of all those 700 choices tracked down from Mass Effect? Please?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Everything's friggin fine...
Q: You said that the development team was able to track 700 choices from Mass Effect and incorporate them into Mass Effect 2. And, you plan to have more than 1,000 decisions tracked for Mass Effect 3. Why?
Now could I have a list of all those 700 choices tracked down from Mass Effect? Please?

Its only around 70 listed in the save editor unless Casey is adding in Dialogue options that inflate that number.

Also I'm nto surprised by what he said.  I would also not be surprised if people's worst fears came true or if the exact opposite happened.  I expect mE 3 to handle decisions like ME 2 but who knows.

[RiouHotaru]

mmmu wrote...

I wouldn't worry about the comments too much. The comments can be read in multiple different ways and in these scenarios as proven in the past (f/f comments by Hudson e.g.). As someone else pointed out somewhere in the discussion here there are blatant statements saying that ME3 will bring a sense of closure and conclusion to the questions raised.
I think it's important to note the part about him saying that the end would feel satisfying while saying that it should work as a standalone title. Now this can be understood in the way that he means that if you have not played the earlier parts of the trilogy it is still standalone _enough_ for a new player to feel satisfactory at the end of ME3. This is probably meaning that we'll have another substory for ME3, sure, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily neglecting the whole story. I for one am not worried, I do believe we will have our trilogy end the only way it could end; magnificently.

There's no point reading in too deep into these comments. When a comment has a hint of negative tone it's easy to misread and jump to conclusions. Let's not! And one more fact to note that it's a smart marketing man speaking. If he answered "ME3 will not be playable as a standalone title" it would mean no new players would be buying it - sure they could buy the previous ones first but meh, players are what they are.

This.  Exactly what I was trying to say.

[Kenthen]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

I mean, would you have rather had NO recognition for your actions or decisions, rather than the emails?

The question is silly. I would rather have none of the above.

Ladies and gentleman, we have reached a consensus.  The Bioware community consists of two things:

http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase This!  And...

http://tvtropes.org/...Main/BrokenBase This! 

Yes because the fact that I find both the scenarios you suggested as bad means that not only am I unpleasable but the entire community consists of an unpleasable fanbase and that there's serious infighting going on...or, OR it just means that your question is silly.
I don't find the e-mails to be good, satisfying or whatever you want to call it nor would I want them to throw everything out, therefore the obvious choice is not-so-secret option #3 which is to actually make it better.