302 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Kenthen wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

  I feel a bit sad saying this, but did you guys have any emotional attachment to any of the choices you made in ME1?  I mean, you guys talk about "meaningless emails" and "worthless cameos", but I have to wonder, did any of you feel ANY sense of accomplishment?  I mean, when you got the message about the Rachni queen, or got the email from Talitha about how she's recovering, or heard about the fact the colonists on Terra Nova are celebrating you rescuing them from Balak...did you feel NOTHING when you heard those?  If so, then I feel a bit sorry for you.

Great...I totally support more emails and cameos in ME3!   The whole ME2 squad can be cameoed and send you and email telling you how it's going.

I mean, would you have rather had NO recognition for your actions or decisions, rather than the emails?

The question is silly. I would rather have none of the above.

Ladies and gentleman, we have reached a consensus.  The Bioware community consists of two things:

http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase This!  And...

http://tvtropes.org/...Main/BrokenBase This! 

Yes because the fact that I find both the scenarios you suggested as bad means that not only am I unpleasable but the entire community consists of an unpleasable fanbase and that there's serious infighting going on...or, OR it just means that your question is silly.
I don't find the e-mails to be good, satisfying or whatever you want to call it nor would I want them to throw everything out, therefore the obvious choice is not-so-secret option #3 which is to actually make it better.

But therein lies the issue.  "Better" in what sense?  Your definition of better and definition of better are two completely different things.  My conclusion that the fanbase is both unpleasable and infighting is true.  God knows how many threads about the Mako vs. Hammerhead, how BW handled Liara, etc, etc, are issues in which not only is the fanbase heavily divided, they're fighting with each other over it.  You and I will likely never agree on what qualifies as "better" in regards to the choices.

[Kalfear]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Naaa Bere, It cant be a mistake cause they say 1000 for ME2 to ME3 and ME2 had way less decisions then ME1 had.

It was a lie, plain and simple

Something Bioware did alot of for Mass Effect 2 product and will have a negative effect on Mass Effect 3 sales because of it.

There were more important choices in ME2 than in the first one, it's just the question is whether we'll see fully fleshed out consequences for those choices. The quarian flotilla (they either become Balkanized, go to war, or remain at peace) the genophage (either you cure it or you don't) the geth (the heretics are destroyed or make the geth more powerful by joining with them), and of course either siding with Cerberus or not at the end. In ME1, the only important choices that felt like they would have long-term consequences were in Noveria and the Council.

If BioWare has the balls, there's also an interesting possibility to see how the choices interact. A potential result I see is this: if the quarians go to war with a completely united geth, (heretics + original geth) they lose. If not, they win. Likewise, I want to see how Wrex responds to seeing the rachni queen again. This stuff should have serious consequences and affect what kind of allies and enemies you get.

Oh, and what makes you think it'll have a negative effect on sales, anyways? Mass Effect 2 easily outsold the first game, and I'm sure ME3 will sell like crazy.

Whos talking about importance of choices???? Do you just create a line to yak about or do you bother reading whats been said!

Casey : 750 decisions in ME, 1000 in ME2
Players: ME2 had LESS decisions then ME1
Dick the Diddler: But they were important decisions!

geeee Diddler, thanks oh so much for your addition that means NOTHING to topic at hand!

As for sales, Sales have been explained in length elsewhere, go troll there kid, not repeating old formulas just for you!

Im sure Bioware will be glad to hear your educated opinion on ME3 potential sales. The endless complaints and threats to not buy ME3 differ with your so engrossing and detailed sale figures though!

ME3s new boardroom statement "Dirk the Diddler said ME3 sales would be crazy, how were we to know different?"

[Terror_K]

The emails wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't seem to be about half your decisions. Especially with ones like Emily Wong and Dr. Michel that make you think "I was just ON The Citadel now... I could easily just go and visit you!" It's also funny considering how many cameos would have made much more sense on The Citadel yet didn't exist, despite all these people who just happened to be on Illium, which kind of makes the galaxy seem small (them (or others) being on The Citadel on the other hand would have made sense).



The thing is, as I've said before, I can't help but feel that ME2 might have had some more meaningful consequences with a greater deal of depth if BioWare hadn't been so damn concerned with appealing to new players and not putting them off. And I can't help but feel ME3 is just going to be a disappointment again when it comes to these decisions because they're making the same stupid mistake going into it. Sure... there are people all over these boards always saying, "I can see how this will effect the third game massively!" and "this decision can only pay off in a major way" and the like, but let's not forget that people felt the same way about a great deal of their decisions in the original game, and pretty much all of them were major disappointments when it came to what they resulted in in ME2, particularly The Council decision which despite being a decision that should have profound effects on the known galaxy did next to nothing, followed not far by the fates of those who could die on Virmire who simply had weak substitutions with alternate dialogue. Yeah... it really does justice to a character when their fate didn't effect a damn thing.

[Shockwave81]

I won't be getting ME3 on release, I'll be very reluctant to get the CE either, unless there is something remarkably special about it.

I'll wait until my fellow forumites (not reviewers) have made their thoughts known on the game before I spend any money at all.

I don't envy BioWare for the task they've set themselves, it's not something that's really been tried before in a gaming sense. ME3 will prove whether or not they bit off more than they could chew.

Will I still buy the game? Probably, but it'll take a bit more than some flashy cinematics and exciting battle vids to win me over this time.

Modifié par Shockwave81, 18 avril 2010 - 02:00 .

[Dick Delaware]

Kalfear wrote...
Whos talking about importance of choices???? Do you just create a line to yak about or do you bother reading whats been said!

Casey : 750 decisions in ME, 1000 in ME2
Players: ME2 had LESS decisions then ME1
Dick the Diddler: But they were important decisions!

geeee Diddler, thanks oh so much for your addition that means NOTHING to topic at hand!

As for sales, Sales have been explained in length elsewhere, go troll there kid, not repeating old formulas just for you!

Im
sure Bioware will be glad to hear your educated opinion on ME3
potential sales. The endless complaints and threats to not buy ME3
differ with your so engrossing and detailed sale figures though!

ME3s new boardroom statement "Dirk the Diddler said ME3 sales would be crazy, how were we to know different?"

../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png

What are you, 12? If you want to talk like a normal person, then fine, I'll be happy to talk and am open to other people's ideas, but if you want to fume at me and put words in my mouth, then don't post until you've graduated middle school.

Look, there were plenty of potentially potentially important choices in ME2 that affect entire species and the balance of power in the galaxy - whether BioWare has the balls to make those choices matter is a different story. You said that there were less decisions in ME2 than in ME1, so I highlighted some of the more prominent ones because of the point I was trying to make. I also agree that the imported choices in ME2 were cosmetic, and while there is potential to cap the trilogy off with a bang, some of the comments in the interview concern me, just like they do most of the people in this thread.

And you didn't answer my question - what makes you think ME3 will sell poorly when ME2 did very well and outsold it's predecessor? My point was that because the first two games sold very well, so will the third. What makes you dispute that?

I think that even if the imported choices in ME3 remain cosmetic, people will still buy it in droves because it is popular. Crappy games sell a lot and many of them get great reviews, so I think that the quality level won't affect the sales. I thought Oblivion was an awful, generic game with a world that was almost completely consequence-free, but it sold a buttload of copies. RPG's are a scarce commodity in demand by a subset of gamers in a market full of boring shooters and action-adventure type games - of course people are going to buy it. Quality rarely has much to do with great sales - I thought Avatar was a gorgeous but mediocre movie, but it made billions.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 18 avril 2010 - 01:56 .

[Shockwave81]

I've been searching through old interviews/press releases for ME2, and came across this quote from Ray Muzyka:

"The uncharted worlds, the fidelity's been amped up and so has the integration of those uncharted worlds with the main story arc, so they're gonna have more of an impact on how the story progresses - even changing the end of the game depending on what optional content you do."

I'm left wondering which uncharted worlds were integrated with the main story arc, and specifically, whether he's referring to the main story arc of ME2, or the trilogy's story arc?

If we are to link it with the main arc of ME2, then I fail to see how malfunctioning robots and merc bands had ANYTHING to do with the Collector problem, and perhaps most importantly, the Reapers themselves.

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I don't think I am), but aside from picking up squad mates and completing loyalty missions, there is almost no link between the main story arc of ME2 and the vast majority of uncharted worlds.

Using the main Normandy upgrades as an example,  and assuming that they haven't got enough minerals to start with, players are only required to scan numerous uninspired and otherwise pointless planets (some don't even come with anything more than a basic environmental description), before selecting [NORMANDY UPGRADES] from the dialog wheel to obtain them.

There was ZERO requirement to actually visit a planet's surface to obtain components or materials for the upgrades. In my view, this would have been a GOOD reason to complete some side quests, heck, why not even tie the upgrades to the loyalty missions as well?? It wouldn't have taken much to script the game in such a way that you needed Jacob to be loyal before he coughed up info on the new armor plating, would it? At least I would have had a reason to trudge through his mission.

Even more disappointing is the fact that the main upgrades can be acquired within moments of stepping foot on the Normandy, or acquiring certain team mates - leaving players with very little to work towards, and (in my experience) next to no sense of accomplishment when the upgrades are finally put to the test.

Considering this is how BioWare handled the important decisions that were tied solely to Mass Effect 2, then I don't have much hope for the third instalment.

Also came across this quote from Dr Muzyka:

"The same is true of many of the races - for example, we get to go to the home world of the Asari, whereas in Mass Effect[/i] 1 we just sort of alluded to it. There are other home worlds of species you have met in Mass Effect[/i] 1 that you can visit too, and that will reveal previously unknown knowledge on them."

Modifié par Shockwave81, 18 avril 2010 - 02:11 .

[Shockwave81]

double post

Modifié par Shockwave81, 18 avril 2010 - 02:01 .

[Dick Delaware]

Shockwave, obviously it's typical PR bullsh*t. Previews hype games up like this all the time. Remember Oblivion's breakthrough "Radiant AI" or how interrupts were going to be in Mass Effect 1? I remember there being similar hype regarding exploring worlds before ME1. I understand your frustration, but unfortunately, things like this are incredibly common.

[Shockwave81]

It is typical PR bullsh!t, but these are the reasons that I, and many others, were so excited about ME2.



The fact that the CEO and General Manager of BioWare Corp can go on record and make inaccurate (at best), if not wholly untrue (at worst) claims about his own product, shows one of two things:



1: A painful lack of knowledge about his own product

2: A painful lack of scruples



That's like George Lucas telling people that viewers will get to visit the homeworld of the Wookies in a Star Wars movie, only to go back on his word and have them visit a Wookie colony instead. Of course it's too late for the fans once they've spent their money.

[Dick Delaware]

Yeah. I dunno, I guess this stuff doesn't really surprise me much anymore. I'm extremely skeptical about every game I hear about, so I'm rarely ever disappointed. That being said, I greatly enjoyed Mass Effect 2 and it was not only better than I expected, but IMO, better than the original, even with it's flaws (which I'm not blind to). That being said, if the finale doesn't provided deep, satisfying consequences for your choices in the previous games, it will have tainted the whole series.



The only previews I really trust are those of indie RPG's because they have no reason to impress anyone and are done out of love. Since they're marketed to adults and RPG fans, they don't need to spout nonsensical PR gimmicks and buzzwords.

[Annihilator27]

Mass effect 3 a stand alone title? Guess it was a "trilogy" then. Cant wait to see the finished product. But odd that they are making it like that.

[Pocketgb]

The first Star Wars movie I saw was the Empire Strikes Back. The first Harry Potter book I read was the third one. Both of them were enough to get me into the franchise, so I don't see why Bioware would require such a large need to do so for ME3.



Not to mention I feel that people are freaking out a bit too much about "making ME3 standalone" statement, since he considered ME2 to be relatively standalone. Could be true, but you're missing quite a lot without playing ME1.

[WilliamShatner]

Shockwave81 wrote...

Also came across this quote from Dr Muzyka:

"The same is true of many of the races - for example, we get to go to the home world of the Asari, whereas in Mass Effect[/i] 1 we just sort of alluded to it. There are other home worlds of species you have met in Mass Effect[/i] 1 that you can visit too, and that will reveal previously unknown knowledge on them."

We went to Thessia in ME2, Mr. Muzyka? 

[Icinix]

I read that "Standalone" bit not that it would be completely separated from the other Mass Effect games, but rather if you had not played the first two, you could pick it up and play ME3 without needing the complete background from ME1 and ME2. If you had played the first two, then you would have a deeper story with more control over the whole arch.



I think people might be overreacting a little bit to that statement.

[Shockwave81]

 I'm not comfortable with the way that 'hype' seems to be a synonym for misleading or outright false information.
Is it unreasonable or inaccurate to state that press releases and CEO/Designer interviews can be considered a form of advertising? By definition, advertising is information disseminated to the general public via the media, with the intent of enticing people to make a purchase. 

The only thing that keeps the good Dr's comments out of the realm of false/misleading advertising (in many developed countries) is the fact that the end user (in most cases, I'm assuming) was not injured by the use of Mass Effect 2.

[Dick Delaware]

You're right about that Icinix, it could be overreaction, but past history certainly makes people skeptical. I have no doubt that the foundation is there for an excellent finale with all your choices having satisfying consequences, but considering most BioWare games throughout the company's history have been pretty linear, I'm not really hopeful. Who knows though, maybe they'll pull through and make something really amazing, I'm not discounting that possibility just yet.

[Dick Delaware]

WilliamShatner wrote...

We went to Thessia in ME2, Mr. Muzyka? 

We did go to Illium, which is an asari world. Now, I don't like misleading hype either, but that's not an example of it.

[SirGladiator]

I really liked the decisions that carried over from ME1 to ME2, they made the game a whole lot cooler. It really makes everything feel so much more special, like everything you're doing 'could' carry over again, so its important to make the right choice, a choice you can really live with, its just awesome really.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Oh ****. That disappoints me a little. I want past squad mates on my crew REALLY BAD. I want BIG consequences for my decisions of past games at least involving a lot the ending you have, it's the gran finale for ****s sake. I don't REALLY wanna see Bioware go all lazy work about it. But I'll give them the benefit of doubt, they deserve it.

[kraidy1117]

Well it looks like ME3 is closer to being a huge failure then an epic success.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 18 avril 2010 - 04:35 .

[RiouHotaru]

The problem is, no matter how good/bad ME3 is, there will be someone who likes/dislikes some part of it. Creating the perfect game just isn't going to happen. Now, this is not an excuse for creating a subpar product, but there has to be an understanding that they can't possibly cover everything. Somethings will change for the better, and some things may change for the worse. We have to be willing to compromise.

[-Skorpious-]

Off-topic - Never trust a word Casey Hudson says. Ever.



On-topic - ME3 should be designed for the fans who supported the series from the beginning. Why should loyal fans take a backseat to clueless newcomers who never bothered to complete the previous acts? It's like giving a promotion to a month-old employee vs a 5 year veteran. it just doesn't make any sense.