60 réponses à ce sujet

[cruc1al]

Tlazolteotl wrote...
I mean .. how many other people think incinerate is the infiltrator's best power?

Pfffft. Infiltrator's best power is obviously infiltrate. I.e. cloak, sneak up behind them and blast them with a shotgun or SMG ;D

[NICKjnp]

cruc1al wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...
I mean .. how many other people think incinerate is the infiltrator's best power?

Pfffft. Infiltrator's best power is obviously infiltrate. I.e. cloak, sneak up behind them and blast them with a shotgun or SMG ;D

We went way off topic didn't we?

Modifié par NICKjnp, 17 avril 2010 - 09:27 .

[cruc1al]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

I tried Infiltrator but the playstyle was too slow for me. I don't like the cloaking.

Infiltrator is not a playstyle. Sniping is.
Like I said, I rarely snipe ... my videos are of entire missions, from beginning to end, conversations included.
Youtube caps video length at 11 minutes, and I have recruitment videos in 3 parts.
I wouldn't say that's slow, would you?

Tbh I watched parts of your videos and based on them you could be a bit faster... Get out of cover more when your shield are up, take cover when they're down. Not criticising you, as it's not a competitive sport or anything, but still.

Modifié par cruc1al, 17 avril 2010 - 09:29 .

[cruc1al]

NICKjnp wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...
I mean .. how many other people think incinerate is the infiltrator's best power?

Pfffft. Infiltrator's best power is obviously infiltrate. I.e. cloak, sneak up behind them and blast them with a shotgun or SMG ;D

We went way off topic didn't we?

Ok, blast them with GPR then.

[Tlazolteotl]

cruc1al wrote...

Tbh I watched parts of your videos and based on them you could be a bit faster... Get out of cover more when your shield are up, take cover when they're down. Not criticising you, as it's not a competitive sport or anything, but still.

Wasn't trying to be fast. Was actually trying to kill everything with pull.

[Tlazolteotl]

Hmm. I think I was also trying to keep squadmates alive through the whole mission, too.

Failed at that, but only right at the end ... Mordin vs YMIR didn't turn out so well.

[swk3000]

I just crunched some numbers, and they agree with my experiences in-game. Basically, the Vindicator is miles better than the Geth Pulse Rifle. You have a grand total of 5 full clips with the Vindicator, compared to 13 full clips with the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Geth Pulse Rifle has more overall damage output, but only because of it's larger magazine. The Vindicator does in 5 clips what the Geth Pulse Rifle takes 9 clips to do, damage-wise. In fact, in terms of damage, a single Vindicator clip is worth nearly 2 clips from the Geth Pulse Rifle.



In addition, because of the way bonus damage is calculated, there's no point to the Geth Pulse Rifle's higher damage to Shields and Barriers. You only get about 4 extra points of damage out of those multipliers, comared to a whopping extra 10 points of damage per shot on the Viindicator. In a single Burst against Barriers or Shields, the Vindicator gets an extra 30 points of damage. The Geth Pulse Rifle would have to fire 8 shots to match that, and in the time it's taken the Geth Pulse Rifle to fire those shots, the Vindicator has had time to get off at least one extra burst, if not more.



The Geth Pulse Rifle is really an inferior POS in just about every way, at least from a damage perspective.

[Tlazolteotl]

There's at least 1 way the GPR is better than the Vindicator, though.

Spray and pray.

[swk3000]

As far as I'm concerned, Spray and Pray is the tool of an Assault-Rifle Illiterate who should be pistol-whipped with his Assault Rifle just before it's taken away. Same with the Revenant. Give me Accuracy over Power any day of the damn week.

[Tlazolteotl]

Aww c'mon. What else are they gonna use?

Shotgun? Pistol? Sniper?

[NICKjnp]

swk3000 wrote...

I just crunched some numbers, and they agree with my experiences in-game. Basically, the Vindicator is miles better than the Geth Pulse Rifle. You have a grand total of 5 full clips with the Vindicator, compared to 13 full clips with the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Geth Pulse Rifle has more overall damage output, but only because of it's larger magazine. The Vindicator does in 5 clips what the Geth Pulse Rifle takes 9 clips to do, damage-wise. In fact, in terms of damage, a single Vindicator clip is worth nearly 2 clips from the Geth Pulse Rifle.

In addition, because of the way bonus damage is calculated, there's no point to the Geth Pulse Rifle's higher damage to Shields and Barriers. You only get about 4 extra points of damage out of those multipliers, comared to a whopping extra 10 points of damage per shot on the Viindicator. In a single Burst against Barriers or Shields, the Vindicator gets an extra 30 points of damage. The Geth Pulse Rifle would have to fire 8 shots to match that, and in the time it's taken the Geth Pulse Rifle to fire those shots, the Vindicator has had time to get off at least one extra burst, if not more.

The Geth Pulse Rifle is really an inferior POS in just about every way, at least from a damage perspective.

If you want to play the "I'm right and your wrong" then I am right and You are wrong.
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[swk3000]

You prefer the Geth Pulse Rifle? Fine. That's your right. I simply wanted to make sure that you had all the information so that you could make an informed decision. If that decision is to stick with the Geth Pulse Rifle, then I'm not going to say anything. I've already presented my advice; what you do with it now is up to you.

[NICKjnp]

swk3000 wrote...

You prefer the Geth Pulse Rifle? Fine. That's your right. I simply wanted to make sure that you had all the information so that you could make an informed decision. If that decision is to stick with the Geth Pulse Rifle, then I'm not going to say anything. I've already presented my advice; what you do with it now is up to you.

If you are playing an adept on Insanity then you need the Geth Pulse Rifle.  It takes down barriers and shields much more efficiently than the Vindicator.  The Vindicator is great against armor and health but you need to get through barriers and shields more often than armor.  Once those defenses are down then you can hit them with biotics.

[Tlazolteotl]

Hang on, I was also under the impression you get more "clips" from picking up a thermal clip on the GPR than the Vindicator .. but since I rarely use either, anyone got numbers?

[NICKjnp]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Hang on, I was also under the impression you get more "clips" from picking up a thermal clip on the GPR than the Vindicator .. but since I rarely use either, anyone got numbers?

I think you are right.  Also... I do use the vindicator when I know I'm going to be fighting enemies with armor only.

[swk3000]

NICKjnp wrote...

If you are playing an adept on Insanity then you need the Geth Pulse Rifle.  It takes down barriers and shields much more efficiently than the Vindicator.

Very well. I'll put this to the test. I'm pretty sure I'm about to activate the Disabled Collector Ship mission. When I do, I will test out the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Vindicator against Barriers and see what I observe.

[NICKjnp]

The Geth Pulse Rifle has 35% damage bonus against barrier/shield while the Vindicator has 25% damage bonus against barrier shield.

[swk3000]

Geth Pulse Rifle Base Damage per shot - 10.8

Geth Pulse Rifle Base Damage against Shields - 14.58



Vindicator Base Damage per shot - 36.8

Vindicator Base Damage against Shields - 46



When I say that Damage Multipliers are not worth basing weapon choices on, it's not because I'm being weird; it's because the math agrees with me.

[NICKjnp]

http://social.biowar...8/index/1143264

[swk3000]

You seem to think I'm calling you a liar; I'm not. I took those multipliers into account when I did my math. However, according to my math, the damage from the Vindicator adds up far more quickly than the damage from the Geth Pulse Rifle does.



A member on some other forums said it best: "Power always equals speed, but Speed does not always equal power."



As I said: I'll do a test run on the platforms in the Collector vessel. I'll wait until both my squad mates are killed, then attempt to take out the Barrier of a Collector using an Assault Rifle with no Ammo Power. I will note which weapon takes fewer shots to do so, then report my results.

[Tlazolteotl]

swk3000 wrote...

I will note which weapon takes fewer shots to do so, then report my results.

Look, I may favour the Vindicator, but frankly, that's a silly test.
Of course the Vindicator will take fewer shots. It's like saying the Mantis is faster than the Viper 'cos it takes fewer shots.
It's the # of time taken that matters.

[cruc1al]

swk3000 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

If you are playing an adept on Insanity then you need the Geth Pulse Rifle.  It takes down barriers and shields much more efficiently than the Vindicator.

Very well. I'll put this to the test. I'm pretty sure I'm about to activate the Disabled Collector Ship mission. When I do, I will test out the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Vindicator against Barriers and see what I observe.

No need. I made a video comparison when someone came up with the claim "the Geth Pulse Rifle is much better than Vindicator". See Test 2 for GPR, Test 3 for Vindicator.

Long story short: Vindicator took down 500 shields in 2.5sec AND half the health of the Geth Hunter within the same clip, while GPR had to reload even before it took down the shields.

(Note that the multiplier against shields is the same as against barriers, so you only need to test one of them)

Modifié par cruc1al, 17 avril 2010 - 11:32 .

[swk3000]

cruc1al wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

If you are playing an adept on Insanity then you need the Geth Pulse Rifle.  It takes down barriers and shields much more efficiently than the Vindicator.

Very well. I'll put this to the test. I'm pretty sure I'm about to activate the Disabled Collector Ship mission. When I do, I will test out the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Vindicator against Barriers and see what I observe.

No need. I made a video comparison when someone came up with the claim "the Geth Pulse Rifle is much better than Vindicator". See Test 2 for GPR, Test 3 for Vindicator.

Long story short: Vindicator took down 500 shields in 2.5sec AND half the health of the Geth Hunter within the same clip, while GPR had to reload even before it took down the shields.

Ah. Thank you. I would have simply provided the link, but couldn't remember it, and I'm too tired to actually go looking for it. Much appreciated.

[Tlazolteotl]

Nice video.

Ooh, it would be interesting to see a comparison between SMGs with shield piercing and ARs with penetration, vs. shields ... for people who are considering getting AR training on the collector ship.

[cruc1al]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Nice video.
Ooh, it would be interesting to see a comparison between SMGs with shield piercing and ARs with penetration, vs. shields ... for people who are considering getting AR training on the collector ship.

What the video shows is in essence just DPS which you can calculate but a calculation is not very good evidence for most people. But still, it's the same thing really as long as you know how the damage is calculated. To compare shield piercing vs. penetration (DPS, not taking reloading into account):

Tempest: base DPS 216 (full auto), shield modifier 1.5
Vindicator: base DPS 221 (perfect manual tapping), shield modifier 1.25

Assume 3/5 damage upgrades and shield piercing (+50%) / penetration (+25%), and short distance (+25%)

I think you calculate the full DPS by taking the ammo bonus separately and lumping everything else together multiplicatively. So:

Tempest vs. shields (no ammo bonus): 216 * 1.5 * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.25 = 790
Vindicator vs. shields (no ammo bonus): 221 * 1.25 * 1.3 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 561

Tempest vs. shields (squad disruptor): 216 * 0.40 + 790 = 876
Vindicator vs. shields (squad disruptor): 221 * 0.40 + 561 =  649

In other words, if you're concerned about shield penetration, you'll be fine with not taking the AR. At longer distance, you can use the sniper if you go with that.

Modifié par cruc1al, 17 avril 2010 - 11:49 .