182 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

I need some input on this from people who have played such a character for something I may write.

If the PC spares Loghain, chooses Anora, and votes to have Alistair executed, is there any reaction from the party members back at camp? Did it affect approval? What does Eamon say to the PC when they reach Redcliffe? How did you roleplay this character, as in what were her motivations and end goals. Did she actually care about the blight or Fereldan, or was she driven by something else? Which Origin was she? Did she have any remorse or was it all part of the plan? Did she choose the dark ritual, and if not, what did she do?

[sylvanaerie]

I've never been able to get him executed. I just can't do it. The one time I spared Loghain to see what he had to say in camp I hitched Ali to Anora and boy was he PISSED! I never played through with it, it was just to satisfy my curiousity.



I understand your companions say nothing at all when you get back to camp but I have only read that on forums not actually seen it in game.

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I've never been able to get him executed. I just can't do it. The one time I spared Loghain to see what he had to say in camp I hitched Ali to Anora and boy was he PISSED! I never played through with it, it was just to satisfy my curiousity.

I understand your companions say nothing at all when you get back to camp but I have only read that on forums not actually seen it in game.

I expected that must be the case for gameplay reasons, and that it must be the same case with Eamon--unless Eamon's army is replaced by Loghain's, which would make sense.

[Urshakk]

errant_knight wrote...

If the PC spares Loghain, chooses Anora, and votes to have Alistair executed, is there any reaction from the party members back at camp?

Nope, I've ranted on this before...

Did it affect approval?

No, but you lose Alistair so it could be argued you technically lose all approval with him

What does Eamon say to the PC when they reach Redcliffe?

He says the bloodline has ended but he trusts you have good reasons for it.

Did she actually care about the blight or Fereldan, or was she driven by something else? Which Origin was she? Did she have any remorse or was it all part of the plan?

Well, the PC I did it with was Dalish and I roleplayed her as pretty cold-hearted, using people for her own means. No remorse, but it wasn't part of the plan, she decided it when it came up during the Landsmeet. Yes, she cared about the Blight it was her duty.

Did she choose the dark ritual, and if not, what did she do?

She was going to but she really wanted Loghain to die so she declined and fed him to the Archdemon.

[LadyDamodred]

Honestly, I did it to unlock the achievement. I could not come up with a roleplay reason for why a character in love with Alistair would do this. D&D has trained me too well. :x Could we just say a blood mage somehow got into her head and made her do it? I can rp all the things up to and after the execution, but not letting it happen.

[errant_knight]

Urshakk wrote...
Well, the PC I did it with was Dalish and I roleplayed her as pretty cold-hearted, using people for her own means. No remorse, but it wasn't part of the plan, she decided it when it came up during the Landsmeet. Yes, she cared about the Blight it was her duty.

 

Thanks for the info! A few more questions....
Why did she want Alistair executed instead of exiled? Why did she enter into a relationship with him in the first place? Was she always planning on betraying him in some way? How did she feel about betraying him when she did it?Did she care about Fereldan and it's people at all, or only the blight as it would affect the Dalish?

[Sarah1281]

I had him executed the one time I managed to romance him as a DN (and it took awhile to sell her on the idea of romancing him in the first place and she certainly didn't expect it to be long-term since Bhelen had her reinstanted so she was going back to Orzammar when the Blight ended) because he wasn't going to become King and so it was simply too dangerous to allow him to live on as a rallying ponit for rebellions. It was regrettable, certainly, but she saw it as a necessity under the circumstances. I don't think anyone really cared that it happened (they certainly didn't act like it) and Eamon only made one token comment while I feel he should have said more since he was the one who put Alistair in a position to be killed in the first place.

She wasn't overly concerned about Ferelden but it needed to be united in order to face the Blight. She chose the DR because she had no intention of dying and Loghain could rebuild the GW since she certainly wasn't going to. She did feel a little guilty, though, which is why in most of my playthroughs he at least gets to live even if he has to marry Anora and put up with Loghain.

As for why she got involved with him in the first place...she had just found out Gorim was married five minutes before getting the rose and she wanted to take her mind off of that.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 avril 2010 - 07:12 .

[Urshakk]

Why did she want Alistair executed instead of exiled?

Well, if he was spared people might raise a rebellion in his name so I eliminated that possibility. Also my PC wanted to make sure she wouldn't have to worry about him getting vengeance or seeing his face again.

Why did she enter into a relationship with him in the first place?

Well, it was more of a fling for her and during all that traveling she got a little bit lonely.

Was she always planning on betraying him in some way? How did she feel about betraying him when she did it?

Nope, like I said she didn't plan it, she decided it when it was brought up at the Landsmeet. She felt nothing, she was pretty cold-hearted.

Did she care about Fereldan and it's people at all, or only the blight as it would affect the Dalish?

If she had a choice she would just save her clan from the Blight and let the humans die out, but it's not available so she will have to save everyone else along with her clan.

Modifié par Urshakk, 17 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[mousestalker]

I had a city elf that executed Alistair. They were still in a relationship, but she didn't appreciate how he reacted in the Alienage. There was the whole "we aren't going to get mugged" comment, with the total surprise that she had been engaged and then meeting her father after Caladrius (Wynne lost approval with my PC on that one as well. No, Wynne, I'm going to spare the S O B who kidnapped and imprisoned my father and now wants to use his life force for some blood magic ritual).

She had asked about his childhood, his upbringing, his likes and dislikes and suddenly she was aware that he had never asked anything about her. The blinders fell off. When he pitched about sparing Loghain she found herself agreeing with Anora. It broke her heart, but she wound up consenting to Alistair's execution. Alistair was, in her opinion, acting like a child. A childish man with a claim to the throne would be a threat to the unity of the kingdom as long as he lived.

She wound up refusing Morrigan's Dark Ritual and killed the arch demon herself out of grief and self loathing. She felt the worst punishment she could give to Loghain was to let him live with himself and with Alistair dead, she didn't want to live.

Very much like a Greek tragedy.

Modifié par mousestalker, 17 avril 2010 - 07:09 .

[hexaligned]

My first play thorough was a highly pragmatic character that didn't see him as fit to rule, and a threat to the stability of the nation. She respected Loghain for his ideals if not his motives. Oddly enough now that you mention it, I don't remember the other party members having much if anything to say about it.

[errant_knight]

mousestalker wrote...

I had a city elf that executed Alistair. They were still in a relationship, but she didn't appreciate how he reacted in the Alienage. There was the whole "we aren't going to get mugged" comment, with the total surprise that she had been engaged and then meeting her father after Caladrius (Wynne lost approval with my PC on that one as well. No, Wynne, I'm going to spare the S O B who kidnapped and imprisoned my father and now wants to use his life force for some blood magic ritual).

She had asked about his childhood, his upbringing, his likes and dislikes and suddenly she was aware that he had never asked anything about her. The blinders fell off. When he pitched about sparing Loghain she found herself agreeing with Anora. It broke her heart, but she wound up consenting to Alistair's execution. Alistair was, in her opinion, acting like a child. A childish man with a claim to the throne would be a threat to the unity of the kingdom as long as he lived.

She wound up refusing Morrigan's Dark Ritual and killed the arch demon herself out of grief and self loathing. She felt the worst punishment she could give to Loghain was to let him live with himself and with Alistair dead, she didn't want to live.

Very much like a Greek tragedy.

Heh, so she killed the man she loved for being too self-centered? Boy, it's a good thing most women aren't that harsh, or there'd be a whole lot fewer men in the world.

[errant_knight]

relhart wrote...

My first play thorough was a highly pragmatic character that didn't see him as fit to rule, and a threat to the stability of the nation. She respected Loghain for his ideals if not his motives. Oddly enough now that you mention it, I don't remember the other party members having much if anything to say about it.

How did being in a relationship with him affect that decision? Did she feel guilt or remorse?

[LadyDamodred]

You know, errant_knight, I hate you b/c now that I've thought about it, I know why one of my characters would have had him executed.

HNF - Grew up having duty/for the good of Ferelden pounded into her. Taught to be very practical and logical. During the course of the game, she tried to be as fair and even-handed as she could be while still holding to those traits. Entered into a relationship with Alistair because she felt he was the only one who could really understand what was going on like she did. She did not intend to fall in love, and when she started to suspect she was, she denied it in her head. Told herself it wasn't love b/c that would be a weakness she couldn't afford, not now.

Landsmeet comes. The practicality and logic dictates that she leave the compentent ruler for the last 5 years on the throne, and Alistair doesn't want it anyway. She lets Loghain live b/c he is Ferelden's greatest general and she thinks it would be a waste to just throw that out. When Anora calls for Alistair's execution, she has a crisis of conscience. She was not planning on doing this, b/c it didn't occur to her. She knows, logically, leaving him alive is a poor move since others have proven to willing to use him (Eamon) and she thinks others will do the same in the future. She's still in denial about being in love with him, and ignores the desperate little voice in her head begging her not to do this. She ignores it and let's Anora execute Alistair. After that, events move so quickly she doesn't have time to stop and think about what she's done.

She does not take th DR, for two reasons. 1) Loghain does need to pay for his crimes 2) She thinks the risk is too high. So Loghain dies killing the AD. After the Blight is defeated, however, she does have time to think about what she did. She comes to realize she made a morrible, horrible mistake; that she actually did love Alistair and she cannot undo what she has done. She slowly becomes consumed with guilt and remorse until it becomes unbearable. She withdraws from all public life, unable to handle it and goes to the Deep Roads.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 17 avril 2010 - 07:30 .

[nos_astra]

High Priestess, I like your idea. I knew I would, great minds think alike and all.



I shall sacrifice a baby nug on the altar of the Alistairian cult.

[errant_knight]

LadyDamodred wrote...

You know, errant_knight, I hate you b/c now that I've thought about it, I know why one of my characters would have had him executed.

HNF - Grew up having duty/for the good of Ferelden pounded into her. Taught to be very practical and logical. During the course of the game, she tried to be as fair and even-handed as she could be while still holding to those traits. Entered into a relationship with Alistair because she felt he was the only one who could really understand what was going on like she did. She did not intend to fall in love, and when she started to suspect she was, she denied it in her head. Told herself it wasn't love b/c that would be a weakness she couldn't afford, not now.

Landsmeet comes. The practicality and logic dictates that she leave the compentent ruler for the last 5 years on the throne, and Alistair doesn't want it anyway. She lets Loghain live b/c he is Ferelden's greatest general and she thinks it would be a waste to just throw that out. When Anora calls for Alistair's execution, she has a crisis of conscience. She was not planning on doing this, b/c it didn't occur to her. She knows, logically, leaving him alive is a poor move since others have proven to willing to use him (Eamon) and she thinks others will do the same in the future. She's still in denial about being in love with him, and ignores the desperate little voice in her head begging her not to do this. She ignores it and let's Anora execute Alistair. After that, events move so quickly she doesn't have time to stop and think about what she's done.

She does not take th DR, for two reasons. 1) Loghain does need to pay for his crimes 2) She thinks the risk is too high. So Loghain dies killing the AD. After the Blight is defeated, however, she does have time to think about what she did. She comes to realize she made a morrible, horrible mistake; that she actually did love Alistair and she cannot undo what she has done. She slowly becomes consumed with guilt and remorse until it becomes unbearable. She withdraws from all public life, unable to handle it and goes to the Deep Roads.

The Couslands are royalists and sworn to Calenhad's line. How does she reconcile this with the choice of a ruler of common blood?

[errant_knight]

klarabella wrote...

High Priestess, I like your idea. I knew I would, great minds think alike and all.

I shall sacrifice a baby nug on the altar of the Alistairian cult.

Who? What? You accidently posted in the wrong thread, didn't you?

[mousestalker]

errant_knight wrote...

Heh, so she killed the man she loved for being too self-centered? Boy, it's a good thing most women aren't that harsh, or there'd be a whole lot fewer men in the world.

Too true. 

But it wasn't just him being a narcissist. It was also her putting her family and her people above anything else. She was frantic the entire game, trying to find out what was going on in the Alienage. She knew only too well that when Ferelden has trouble, everyone's first instinct is to go kill some elves. (Yes I know that Anora yields to that impulse with some endings. My character did not).

Anora is a b****, but even Arl Eamon thinks she is competent. Alistair having his temper tantrum just drove home how inadequate he would be as king. A Grey Warden has to be about fighting the Blight first and personal feelings second. That Alistair didn't get that made him disposable at that point.

Probably my least nice Warden  and as close as I've come to an evil character in the game.

[LadyDamodred]

errant_knight wrote...
The Couslands are royalists and sworn to Calenhad's line. How does she reconcile this with the choice of a ruler of common blood?

They are dedicated to country first, then the royal line.  As the Couslands have shown during the Warden's Keep DLC, they place more value on the good of Ferelden that just supporting the blood.  That being said, they *are* royalists, so they wouldn't cotton to someone who doesn't deserve it holding the crown.  Loghain did not betray his king for the good of Ferelden.  This is why he dies killing the Archdemon.  My PC uses him and then kills him, basically.  His last act for the good of Ferelden.  And Anora is nobility, not common blood.  Her father may have started out a commoner, but he was elevated to nobility and thus she is noble.  She is the queen.

You can also tie in that the line of Calenhad is over anyway.  Alistair will not have children anyway, so she must make a decision for the good of Ferelden.  Maker, does she ever come to loathe that phrase.  XD

klarabella wrote...

High Priestess, I like your idea. I knew I would, great minds think alike and all.

I shall sacrifice a baby nug on the altar of the Alistairian cult.

Excellent!

And errant_knight, she's referring to me.  *points to her sig* 

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 17 avril 2010 - 07:45 .

[Chasseresse]

Ouch, this is a toughie. I really can't come up with any reasons why my characters would choose to execute Al. I'm just not a ruthless enough person in real life that I can't even role play one well. I don't think I would ever go through with it in any of my games, even for achievement purposes. I think if it were to be something I'd do, my character would probably turn Morrigan's request down and kill the Archdemon herself out of grief and remorse.

[errant_knight]

Chasseresse wrote...

Ouch, this is a toughie. I really can't come up with any reasons why my characters would choose to execute Al. I'm just not a ruthless enough person in real life that I can't even role play one well. I don't think I would ever go through with it in any of my games, even for achievement purposes. I think if it were to be something I'd do, my character would probably turn Morrigan's request down and kill the Archdemon herself out of grief and remorse.

Yeah, I can't even bear the thought of it, and I absolutely can't get my head around her killing him unless she never loved him in the first place. That's why I need some input from those who can. The PC is the 'villain' of the piece, but villains have to have real motivations and make rational choices, or they're just cartoons. They have to be able to argue their point of view.

[ArawnNox]

mousestalker wrote...

I had a city elf that executed Alistair. They were still in a relationship, but she didn't appreciate how he reacted in the Alienage. There was the whole "we aren't going to get mugged" comment, with the total surprise that she had been engaged and then meeting her father after Caladrius (Wynne lost approval with my PC on that one as well. No, Wynne, I'm going to spare the S O B who kidnapped and imprisoned my father and now wants to use his life force for some blood magic ritual).

She had asked about his childhood, his upbringing, his likes and dislikes and suddenly she was aware that he had never asked anything about her. The blinders fell off. When he pitched about sparing Loghain she found herself agreeing with Anora. It broke her heart, but she wound up consenting to Alistair's execution. Alistair was, in her opinion, acting like a child. A childish man with a claim to the throne would be a threat to the unity of the kingdom as long as he lived.

She wound up refusing Morrigan's Dark Ritual and killed the arch demon herself out of grief and self loathing. She felt the worst punishment she could give to Loghain was to let him live with himself and with Alistair dead, she didn't want to live.

Very much like a Greek tragedy.

Wow, that's pretty powerful stuff. That could be turned into a pretty heartwrenching fanfic

[Raiil]

I've never done it- My dislike of Loghain is enough that I could absolutely hate Alistair, and still I'd kick the ******'s head in given half the chance.





The only situation I could see this being doable in, in my eyes, is either with someone who pretty much stands against everything Alistair is for, or someone who really espouses the Grey Warden tradition. My main PC is really bad at being a Grey Warden. I mean, she kicked the Archdemon's arse and managed to summon an army from a war torn land, but she's not in line with the 'whatever it takes' philosophy. Or rather, there seem to be two branches of Grey Warden thought. The Blight must be stopped. It's a war. My PC, Alistair, and some GWs are of the mind that the GW must bear the bloodprice of stopping the Blight. The other is that we must win at any cost. The Warden who believes in the second branch could feasibly get rid of Alistair if they were concerned that he was that much of a threat.

[errant_knight]

Valentia X wrote...

I've never done it- My dislike of Loghain is enough that I could absolutely hate Alistair, and still I'd kick the ******'s head in given half the chance.


The only situation I could see this being doable in, in my eyes, is either with someone who pretty much stands against everything Alistair is for, or someone who really espouses the Grey Warden tradition. My main PC is really bad at being a Grey Warden. I mean, she kicked the Archdemon's arse and managed to summon an army from a war torn land, but she's not in line with the 'whatever it takes' philosophy. Or rather, there seem to be two branches of Grey Warden thought. The Blight must be stopped. It's a war. My PC, Alistair, and some GWs are of the mind that the GW must bear the bloodprice of stopping the Blight. The other is that we must win at any cost. The Warden who believes in the second branch could feasibly get rid of Alistair if they were concerned that he was that much of a threat.

 How would they see him as a threat? He's determined to stop the blight, and in your scenario, the PC would have to have no problem mixing warden business with politics. Picking a ruler and killing an heir is about as much interference as you can get. I'm assuming that this doesn't necessarily involve sparing Loghain, but could.... (Not arguing, just trying to understand the idea)

[Raiil]

He'd be a rallying point for anyone unhappy. Without metagaming knowledge, we have no idea when the Archdemon is going to appear. Alistair could- theoretically- try to summon a separate army or cause dissension amoung the people by **** talking the Warden, all Wardens, and/or Loghain, which is not something needed at that point, before the archdemon appears. Not that this is what happens, of course, but for someone looking to all ends, it's a possibility.



In that scenario, it's not so much that there's no problem mixing politics. It's more that in order to proceed, they have to get involved in the system. My PC hates politics in general, enough that she doesn't even think about putting her best friend/BF on the throne, and I can just as easily see a regular Warden coming to the same conclusion. You do what you have to do, even if it forces you to muddle in politics.

[sylvanaerie]

man these stories are heartbreaking. You guys got more fortitude than I do. I just can't do it. I can't see romancing him or even befriending him and killing Alistair for any reason. I would rather exile him than have that woman kill him.