340 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB



Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.



Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

[TJSolo]

Feraele wrote...

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB

Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.

Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

That would be an option if there weren't people on this board going into threads and diminish the talk about bugs/glitches because said bug/glitch has not happened to them in all their 6 playthroughs.
There are universal bugs like the dex one on 360 and then there are bugs that are not univeral but still happen.
Both need to be addressed. A person not experiencing said bug does not need to be in a bug thread saying how the bug does not happen to them over and over.

[Aeropostle]

bzombo wrote...

Aeropostle wrote...

Not whining, acting. I've already contacted the national BBB and filed a complaint. On Monday, it's searching for a reporter interested in this story. You can continue to sit on your arse, take it, and make smart arse comments. You obviously feel you're not worth paying attention to, so I won't pay any further attention to you either.

you're way off on this one. this is self entitlement at its purest. speak with your wallet, not with whining. this is all just part of the instant gratification generation. the patch is coming. they've even said there was. how much more do you want? what case will the bbb have when a patch has been released and fixed many problems? the bbb is for businesses that do things like charge you for something and then never give you anything and act as if they're in the right. or taking your money, closing up shop and disappearing for good with your money. things like that. not because you don't like what has been released.

Unfortunately, I already spoke with my wallet but I got fooled and can't get my money back.  Instant gratification?  How long has this game been out?  Why is it elitist to expect, when you pay full price for a product, that it's a quality product?  It's one thing to say I don't like it.  I don't like it, so what.  That's my opinion.  What I'm talking about here is an unfinished, highly bugged, and in some cases, flat-out not working product.  What recourse do we have for that?  None.  I'm sorry, but I'm guessing 99% of people feel that they should get a product that works as advertised when they lay down their cash.  In almost all cases except games, taking the defective product back for a return of your dollar is the solution.  Where is there a fair solution for gamers who get bilked out of their money by defective games?  Is 99% of the world elitist?

I see you are another of the people brainwashed into accepting junk because it might get fixed...when they get around to it.    You've been in the gaming world far too long.

 I have something fair to propose to game companies.  How about they sell their games for half price, then when it's actually free of defects, they get the rest of our money?

[Aeropostle]

Feraele wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

Rendar666 wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

shut up, you fail, all of you. shut up with definitions, BBB and complaints about a very average number of bugs. I've seen many games with just as many bugs become lauded by consumers and critics. just get over it

Despite your douchery... I agree.

i just did the exact same thing that other people are saying... i just don't waste page after page on paraphrasing. i admit it was rather harsh, but i'd rather call it blunt and honest. this game is a'ight. i have heard confirmation from Bioware themselves, somewhere in this forum, that 1.04 is in the making and with fixes. this thread belongs in offtopic for econimic and psycological discusion along with scholar level flaming.
bug REPORTS (not to be mistaken for whine topics, which doesn't belong anywhere for the public to be seen at all) belong in tech support forums.

I'm teh backdoor moderator*, signing off.

*no, i'm not. i'm just annoyed and thought i'd start yelling too.

above poster is right. a status report and list of what you're working to fix would quiet a lot of us. why don't you at least let us know what's being done? this isn't CIA (or sparta) you can talk, and you better... or else i'll start crying. i'm noisy when i'm crying.

and annoying.

Couldn't agree more.
I think if people truly want to BUG REPORT they as you and I suggested ..should be doing this in the tech forum that relates to the platform they use. 

Pick a bug..any bug.    Run through it..write the details down..hit printscreen..get a picture.    Then report it.

General complaints about bugs and effects, don't do anything to get them fixed.   Hard evidence points the finger at the right problem...so it can be tracked and verified.  

Once that happens they are put on a list in order of priority...whatever priority Bioware deems it is.    Once they get their "turn" on the list..the attempt is made to fix them.

Thats how I understand it.

So you have a bug.   Okay...don't be vague,  state clearly and with detail in the tech forums...for your platform, what it is, where you encountered it..etc etc.

That is the only way its going to be tracked down and eliminated.

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not complaining about any particular bugs, plenty of people have been sending these into the devs.  All of my issues have already been covered hundreds of times over by people who are PO'd that they're STILL THERE!  And, that they're numerous.

I'm making a point that shipping crap out has been, for far too long, and for some unknown reason, has become accepted as the standard.  Yet we, the customers, are supposed to pay full price, get a defective product, and be happy to wait until the devs get around to it.  In many cases, they don't.  And what recourse do we, the consumers have, if we get a defective game?  None.  They got your money.  Their incentive to fix the game is absolutely zero, unless they're really thinking about the future of their company.  Whether they are or not, you're still out your money.

It's obviously not just Bioware or EA, it's almost all of them.  This just happened to be one of the worst buggy games I've purchased in awhile, and I'm still waiting for my patch.

[Feraele]

TJSolo wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB

Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.

Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

That would be an option if there weren't people on this board going into threads and diminish the talk about bugs/glitches because said bug/glitch has not happened to them in all their 6 playthroughs.
There are universal bugs like the dex one on 360 and then there are bugs that are not univeral but still happen.
Both need to be addressed. A person not experiencing said bug does not need to be in a bug thread saying how the bug does not happen to them over and over.

Oh sorry..I am not allowed to speak?   What I am attempting to do is..RECOGNIZE that there are indeed bugs...pretty normal for ANY game...and then present the other side of it.   

Nothing I am doing or saying is in any way diminishing the problems people are having.   What I am attempting to do...is be helpful.

I am suggesting that they go into greater detail...but on the TECH forum where the techs are actually looking for the information on these said bugs. 

Check my responses in the other thread...same thing ..I am attempting to help corner and track down EXACTLY what is causing these bugs...I am attempting to get people to think about it..

Whether you flame me for trying...doesn't bother me...please continue.

What I am attempting to do is get some rational thinking and action going here.

Going blah blah blah on some message board...doesn't give the information needed to track down and excise these bugs.   

Hard evidence ..screenies, details...THAT helps those that deal with these things, and have to search the millions of lines of code...to find and fix them.

Sorry for attempting to be helpful...I'll go back to watching all this...scratching my head and wondering why people aren't more proactive.

[Feraele]

Aeropostle wrote...

Feraele wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

Rendar666 wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

shut up, you fail, all of you. shut up with definitions, BBB and complaints about a very average number of bugs. I've seen many games with just as many bugs become lauded by consumers and critics. just get over it

Despite your douchery... I agree.

i just did the exact same thing that other people are saying... i just don't waste page after page on paraphrasing. i admit it was rather harsh, but i'd rather call it blunt and honest. this game is a'ight. i have heard confirmation from Bioware themselves, somewhere in this forum, that 1.04 is in the making and with fixes. this thread belongs in offtopic for econimic and psycological discusion along with scholar level flaming.
bug REPORTS (not to be mistaken for whine topics, which doesn't belong anywhere for the public to be seen at all) belong in tech support forums.

I'm teh backdoor moderator*, signing off.

*no, i'm not. i'm just annoyed and thought i'd start yelling too.

above poster is right. a status report and list of what you're working to fix would quiet a lot of us. why don't you at least let us know what's being done? this isn't CIA (or sparta) you can talk, and you better... or else i'll start crying. i'm noisy when i'm crying.

and annoying.

Couldn't agree more.
I think if people truly want to BUG REPORT they as you and I suggested ..should be doing this in the tech forum that relates to the platform they use. 

Pick a bug..any bug.    Run through it..write the details down..hit printscreen..get a picture.    Then report it.

General complaints about bugs and effects, don't do anything to get them fixed.   Hard evidence points the finger at the right problem...so it can be tracked and verified.  

Once that happens they are put on a list in order of priority...whatever priority Bioware deems it is.    Once they get their "turn" on the list..the attempt is made to fix them.

Thats how I understand it.

So you have a bug.   Okay...don't be vague,  state clearly and with detail in the tech forums...for your platform, what it is, where you encountered it..etc etc.

That is the only way its going to be tracked down and eliminated.

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not complaining about any particular bugs, plenty of people have been sending these into the devs.  All of my issues have already been covered hundreds of times over by people who are PO'd that they're STILL THERE!  And, that they're numerous.

I'm making a point that shipping crap out has been, for far too long, and for some unknown reason, has become accepted as the standard.  Yet we, the customers, are supposed to pay full price, get a defective product, and be happy to wait until the devs get around to it.  In many cases, they don't.  And what recourse do we, the consumers have, if we get a defective game?  None.  They got your money.  Their incentive to fix the game is absolutely zero, unless they're really thinking about the future of their company.  Whether they are or not, you're still out your money.

It's obviously not just Bioware or EA, it's almost all of them.  This just happened to be one of the worst buggy games I've purchased in awhile, and I'm still waiting for my patch.

Hmmm lemmee see now..seems to me I've seen some pretty bad launches over the years...going back 15 or so.   

Wow wasn't so great coming out of the gate,  Vanguard was a TOTAL unplayable buggy mess.....Anarchy Online was pretty much the same...fixed about 5 months later.     There are many many many more examples, some games didn't even survive they were so bad.

This has been ongoing...Everquest when it launched,  lots of crashes...servers unavailble etc.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW........what would be new is indeed a perfect..out of the gate release ..no bugs, no fixup patches afterward.  

But I really don't think thats possible...unless you have machinery producing these games and not humans.

[Aeropostle]

Feraele wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB

Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.

Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

That would be an option if there weren't people on this board going into threads and diminish the talk about bugs/glitches because said bug/glitch has not happened to them in all their 6 playthroughs.
There are universal bugs like the dex one on 360 and then there are bugs that are not univeral but still happen.
Both need to be addressed. A person not experiencing said bug does not need to be in a bug thread saying how the bug does not happen to them over and over.

Oh sorry..I am not allowed to speak?   What I am attempting to do is..RECOGNIZE that there are indeed bugs...pretty normal for ANY game...and then present the other side of it.   

Nothing I am doing or saying is in any way diminishing the problems people are having.   What I am attempting to do...is be helpful.

I am suggesting that they go into greater detail...but on the TECH forum where the techs are actually looking for the information on these said bugs. 

Check my responses in the other thread...same thing ..I am attempting to help corner and track down EXACTLY what is causing these bugs...I am attempting to get people to think about it..

Whether you flame me for trying...doesn't bother me...please continue.

What I am attempting to do is get some rational thinking and action going here.

Going blah blah blah on some message board...doesn't give the information needed to track down and excise these bugs.   

Hard evidence ..screenies, details...THAT helps those that deal with these things, and have to search the millions of lines of code...to find and fix them.

Sorry for attempting to be helpful...I'll go back to watching all this...scratching my head and wondering why people aren't more proactive.

Been there.  The issues I and others have been experiencing have been covered as nauseum.  You missed the point of my post which is to point out the general lack of accountability by all game companies and the general acceptance by many gamers that this is the norm...which I think is wrong.  This game just happened to be one of the buggier games I've played in awhile, so this is why it appeared here.

[BomimoDK]

fine then, OP... your callout thread belongs in either off-topic, tech support or in a mail to EA that will get a standard scripted response and the possibility of talking it over with an Indian dude who knows jack-dung English.
the only thing that has come out of this here was a university level slap-trading flamefest with fireballs of words and phrases as advanced as the Oxford Dictionary, some people who yell along with you and then some like me who yell and scream to go away and do what is required to resolve this instead of attempting to instigate a Braveheart style revolution that will end up with you gutted on a table like Mel Gibson.

if this isn't proof enough that it is easier and better to use the channels provided for it, then i can't imagine what it would take.

It IS possible to make games without gamebreakers at release... the 5th and 6th console gen are perfect proof of this. but it seems that patches has turned from a failsafe into an excuse to release half-tested games. i've seen proof that games can be released without any patches at all, it's been done 10000+ times from 1978-1999.

Modifié par BomimoDK, 19 avril 2010 - 12:34 .

[Feraele]

Aerospotle
quote

Been there. The issues I and others have been experiencing have been covered as nauseum. You missed the point of my post which is to point out the general lack of accountability by all game companies and the general acceptance by many gamers that this is the norm...which I think is wrong. This game just happened to be one of the buggier games I've played in awhile, so this is why it appeared here.
--------------------------END QUOTE--------------------------

Tired of the pyramids...and long miles of text so cutting it off here.

And how would you make them "more" accountable? The BBB isn't going to resolve it for you. I think yelling at Bioware isn't going to resolve it either.

EA is in control here. Bioware does as its told..EA is the parent company after all. Yell at EA.

What platform are you using..if console ..indeed it seems that console users have gotten less support than say...PC users. Most of the bug complaints I see are from console users. I don't have a clue ..if that has something to do with Microsoft or Sony. Again those two companies..well its nigh impossible to contact them..and get a live person to answer you through the CSR department. I know for a fact, that Microsoft also uses third world country CSR...and they use scripted responses.....have dealt with Microsoft and have dealt with EA.

A most frustrating experience on BOTH counts. Sony is just ...well hard to reach, they have a phone system that makes you push buttons and you end up in a loop, still with no answers to your questions.

Thats how the large companies do "customer service" these days...and they're so big, that I would guess it would be hard to make them "accountable" for anything at all.

So thinking that people are "just accepting" being screwed...is probably a little off the beam.

More likely they don't have the power to do anything but...buyer beware, research before you buy...or the other thing and that is like I have suggested multiple times..be proactive, and give some detailed feedback with screenies on the actual problems you are encountering, then keep your fingers crossed that "something" will be done to fix it ...eventually.

Not all of us are sheeple...well...maybe some of us are WISE sheeple.

Modifié par Feraele, 19 avril 2010 - 12:40 .

[traversc]

Feraele wrote...

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB

Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.

Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

Already done.  Almost all bugs have already been reported.  There is no point in spamming bug reports.

It would take less than a day for ONE experienced modder to fix 90% of the bugs in DA:O and DA:A.  Bugs that have been in the game since release still exist.  But rather than fix bugs, they rather do useless stuff like modify cooldowns on shield talents, which no one hardly uses anyway. 

The problem is, if it's not official, it doesn't exist. 

[Feraele]

traversc wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB

Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.

Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

Already done.  Almost all bugs have already been reported.  There is no point in spamming bug reports.

It would take less than a day for ONE experienced modder to fix 90% of the bugs in DA:O and DA:A.  Bugs that have been in the game since release still exist.  But rather than fix bugs, they rather do useless stuff like modify cooldowns on shield talents, which no one hardly uses anyway. 

The problem is, if it's not official, it doesn't exist. 

Then..I would suggest that...that experienced modder apply for a job at Bioware...hehe   I'd vote for him.

[TJSolo]

Feraele wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Doing something ...ie: getting it fixed, would be more rational than attempting to rely on the BBB

Getting it fixed means...you have to make the effort to report the bug or bugs..clearly and concisely with much detail.

Ranting about it..and generalizing doesn't get anything done, except a bunch of spam on a message board.

That would be an option if there weren't people on this board going into threads and diminish the talk about bugs/glitches because said bug/glitch has not happened to them in all their 6 playthroughs.
There are universal bugs like the dex one on 360 and then there are bugs that are not univeral but still happen.
Both need to be addressed. A person not experiencing said bug does not need to be in a bug thread saying how the bug does not happen to them over and over.

Oh sorry..I am not allowed to speak?   What I am attempting to do is..RECOGNIZE that there are indeed bugs...pretty normal for ANY game...and then present the other side of it.   

Nothing I am doing or saying is in any way diminishing the problems people are having.   What I am attempting to do...is be helpful.

I am suggesting that they go into greater detail...but on the TECH forum where the techs are actually looking for the information on these said bugs. 

Check my responses in the other thread...same thing ..I am attempting to help corner and track down EXACTLY what is causing these bugs...I am attempting to get people to think about it..

Whether you flame me for trying...doesn't bother me...please continue.

What I am attempting to do is get some rational thinking and action going here.

Going blah blah blah on some message board...doesn't give the information needed to track down and excise these bugs.   

Hard evidence ..screenies, details...THAT helps those that deal with these things, and have to search the millions of lines of code...to find and fix them.

Sorry for attempting to be helpful...I'll go back to watching all this...scratching my head and wondering why people aren't more proactive.

*giggle* this isn't a court of law. The "other" side of bugs do not need representation for their defense.
Your response are a lot of, I works for me, so it works for me. In a thread were someone is having problems it is nice to try and help them address their issue instead of just providing a case that, it works for you.

Unless you are the one searching the millions of lines of code you are not helping, but just detracting most of the time.

[Feraele]

@ tjsolo

quote: *giggle* this isn't a court of law. The "other" side of bugs do not need representation for their defense.
Your response are a lot of, I works for me, so it works for me. In a thread were someone is having problems it is nice to try and help them address their issue instead of just providing a case that, it works for you.

Unless you are the one searching the millions of lines of code you are not helping, but just detracting most of the time.
---------end quote-------------


I'm not a lawyer ..so there goes that theory. I do like to make people laugh..so thanks for the giggle.
You obviously don't get where I am coming from at all.

For instance..someone has been stating that key of the city..causes the silverite mines bug (note this is an example only and not actually verified)
I am stating that in 6 run throughs of Awakening..with 6 main characters equipped with this ring, that I have not encountered that that black screen with the Architect..and therefore the loss of equipment or the non showing of the experiment mobs that would carry that equipment.

I am postulating there may be several reasons why. Not just the key to the city ring. I am explaining what happened in my case...BECAUSE I am trying to show the differences between the bugged and not bugged experiences.

Somewhere between those two experiences, bugged and not bugged, is the solution...the key to fixing it has to be there somewhere.
THAT is what I am talking about. Go back and read it again.

And then giggle some more if you wish.......as perhaps thats all the sense I might get from you.

Modifié par Feraele, 19 avril 2010 - 01:04 .

[CybAnt1]

Ferale: many of these are not hard to find, and are not hard to fix.



Somebody mistakenly set the rune type of masterpiece and paragon silverite and cold iron runes to armor runes -- a mistake that makes them nonfunctional. It's no secret how they screwed up (they checked the wrong flag/set the wrong bit), it's no secret how to fix it, and yes there's a modfix for the issue already at DA Nexus.... so PC users can solve the problem themselves.



Somebody mistakenly set the ability bonus of Legion of the Dead Heraldry to +20 instead of +2. Now it's obvious how they screwed that up; they just typed an extra 0, it's a bloody typo. This issue is not platform, configuration, etc. specific; every DA:A player on Earth can take this heraldry, apply it, and enjoy a powergamer wet dream of +20 bonus to all their stats. It's a screwup that's there for *everybody*. I know how it happened, it's easy to fix, too, it's just a bloody typo that causes a glitch.



There is a merchant you get at Warden's Keep (Lilith) who you speak to, and then she says she's leaving and walks out in a cutscene, and then she reappears again. You speak to her, she says she's leaving, and then she reappears again. **Stuck in an endless loop**. This is the oldest error in programming, 10 DO THIS 20 GOTO 10.



I'm sorry. I look at this stuff and I have just one burning question: "HOW THE F**K DID IT GET PAST QA?!?!" UNLESS THEY DIDN'T DO ANY.

[Feraele]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Ferale: many of these are not hard to find, and are not hard to fix.

Somebody mistakenly set the rune type of masterpiece and paragon silverite and cold iron runes to armor runes -- a mistake that makes them nonfunctional. It's no secret how they screwed up (they checked the wrong flag/set the wrong bit), it's no secret how to fix it, and yes there's a modfix for the issue already at DA Nexus.... so PC users can solve the problem themselves.

Somebody mistakenly set the ability bonus of Legion of the Dead Heraldry to +20 instead of +2. Now it's obvious how they screwed that up; they just typed an extra 0, it's a bloody typo. This issue is not platform, configuration, etc. specific; every DA:A player on Earth can take this heraldry, apply it, and enjoy a powergamer wet dream of +20 bonus to all their stats. It's a screwup that's there for *everybody*. I know how it happened, it's easy to fix, too, it's just a bloody typo that causes a glitch.

There is a merchant you get at Warden's Keep (Lilith) who you speak to, and then she says she's leaving and walks out in a cutscene, and then she reappears again. You speak to her, she says she's leaving, and then she reappears again. **Stuck in an endless loop**. This is the oldest error in programming, 10 DO THIS 20 GOTO 10.

I'm sorry. I look at this stuff and I have just one burning question: "HOW THE F**K DID IT GET PAST QA?!?!" UNLESS THEY DIDN'T DO ANY.

Hmm only thing Lilith does in mine is she thanks me for saving her, walks off..then goes back to her post.   Weird.   Other npc you get from Silverite mines...he talks but you can't access him.  Not sure if that is supposed to be like that or not.

As for Quality Assurance,  I am starting to think..that perhaps it was a cursory thing ..passed by the team to make the release date.

The forthcoming patch 1.04........is that for true or just rumour?  If its true, then I would hope they would encompass these things, sounds like there's a ton of stuff, mostly console that needs fixing badly. 

And after the RTO debacle, where everything was delayed, delayed and delayed again due to some bug that caused corrupted save files for console users.......and all the hoops they have to jump through with Sony and Microsoft just to get certification for "anything" that has to pass MS and Sony testing, its a wonder anything gets produced at all.

I dunno...I see the big hand of EA in all this..sorry to say.   And I think its going to downgrade the Bioware experience overall......in the end.

[CybAnt1]

Hmm only thing Lilith does in mine is she thanks me for saving her, walks off..then goes back to her post.   Weird.   

That's not the weirdest part. Talk to her a 2nd time. A third time. A fourth time. She will keep doing the same thing over and over again. She's stuck in an endless loop. 

The forthcoming patch 1.04........is that for true or just rumour?   

Dunno. The last thing I saw was that "they were looking into things". Grand. If someone can find me a post saying there will be a patch 1.04 and that it will come out eventually ... please tell me. I haven't seen one. 

BTW, I am increasingly also concurring with the view that at least for us PC users, let the modders fix what they can fix themselves. The irony is modders are already fixing stuff, even though they haven't updated the Toolset for Awakenings yet. But if they were to update it, they could fix everything else, and package the fixes as DAzips that would be easy to install. It would be nice to see word, any word, as to when that Toolset update will be.

Because, BTW, it would also be necessary to do any other kinds of mods for Awakening (let's just say design fixes instead of bug fixes).... and there's no word when that's coming out, either. 

[Feraele]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Hmm only thing Lilith does in mine is she thanks me for saving her, walks off..then goes back to her post.   Weird.   

That's not the weirdest part. Talk to her a 2nd time. A third time. A fourth time. She will keep doing the same thing over and over again. She's stuck in an endless loop. 

The forthcoming patch 1.04........is that for true or just rumour?   

Dunno. The last thing I saw was that "they were looking into things". Grand. If someone can find me a post saying there will be a patch 1.04 and that it will come out eventually ... please tell me. I haven't seen one. 

BTW, I am increasingly also concurring with the view that at least for us PC users, let the modders fix what they can fix themselves. The irony is modders are already fixing stuff, even though they haven't updated the Toolset for Awakenings yet. But if they were to update it, they could fix everything else, and package the fixes as DAzips that would be easy to install. It would be nice to see word, any word, as to when that Toolset update will be.

Because, BTW, it would also be necessary to do any other kinds of mods for Awakening (let's just say design fixes instead of bug fixes).... and there's no word when that's coming out, either. 

Come to think of it...where is Victor these days..he's supposed to be our community liason.     I know if he doesn't have any information to report...we don't hear from him. 

There's alot of silence from above on these boards, moreso than any other game I've been involved with..and I just wonder why sometimes.

[Rendar666]

Tired of all the quoting.

Well since there is a BW post in this thread asking for the OP the clarify his concerns. It looks less like whining and more like an attempt at lodging a legit complaint.

Still, I'm just saying, it is whining. The OP is whining. Just saying.

Try and repeat all the crap you want and how you disagree with the OP but merely trying to call it whining is weak and does not address the OPs points.

Ok, there are glitches. Sure. What is discussing going to do when he comes up with no points? All he does is state that he is going to freak out at the BBB because Bioware released a game that had glitches.


What's a "sheeple"? New kind of human? Advanced life-forms? Hmm. What'll they think of next!??! **I guess you're trying to combine sheep and people? NICE ONE!
It is a term that is very easy to dechiper the meaning behind. *Neato*
 

Whine: Grumble (complain, moan, gripe object) peevishly (irritably, crossly, grumpily) To complain or protest about something, often in an annoyingly plaintive voice. Look it up if you want. I’m not an idiot. The OP was whining. Bloody deal with it.
If you would like to further debate your hopeless case, be my guest. Just don’t insult my intelligence.
Calling the “consumer” a sheep is very insulting

Having a complaint and voicing that complaint is not whining.

*(Actually, he wasn't just voicing opinion, he went on and on about how Bioware and everyone else needs to be accountable for their terrible actions, blah, blah , blah. That's whining. Just saying.)*

You left out part of the definition, provide links instead of you half assed paraphrasing.

*What links? lol, that's the definition. If you want to look it up, go look it up in Dictionary.com. I didn't use anything to get the definition. That's what the word means. It could be associated with "childish whining" but it isn't always so.

Whining is done in a childish fashion or tone. *not always. I thought the OP was acting a little childish though. There you go!*

The label of "whining" people on boards claim is most often wrong and simply used as a personal attack instead of addressing the points.

*But it is true. His point is: Bioware didn't get rid of all of the glitches in their game, ragin' time. <Point


I put in a few lines about how I feel about the nature of the American consumer. That is hardly everything the topic of Econmics covers.

*I know that*

What I sound like to you is entirely baised by your opinions on this matter and you inabilty to talk about this without casting somekind of insult.

*You're insulting me? Aren't you? That's why I responded to you in the first place because you insulted me. Put the blame where it's due.




Irony would be you calling the OP infantile for the way he posts yet you include insults tell me to "put a sock in it". That is irony.

Irony is: by writing half of your responses to what I wrote you insulted me multiple ways and then told me how it was ironic that I was acting childish. That's irony for you.


BTW... how is telling someone to "put a sock on it" infantile? Should I have told you to STFU and die in a small town gutter by East Street in California? Whatever. I guess non-violent "be quiet" terms are infantile.

Only because of dense forum posters that attempt to derail and get threads they don't like locked down. Instead of the threads running their course of having civil discussion. *Riight... Because you're sooo smart and civil right from the start, right?*

If this thread was deemed unworthy to be on this board it would have been locked when Eurypterid posted.

**It shouldn't even be on this board for one thing. It should be in the technical board where he actually details the bugs instead of complaining, AKA whining, about it on this forum. The fact that he posts little to nothing about these bugs in his initial post shows that he is, indeed, whining.**

Whatever, done talking to you pal. There is only so much annoying, elitist guy who thinks that he is so much better than everyone else for some insane reason that I can take in a day.

[TheMadCat]

Yeah, funny story.  But you hit the point - it's a crap product and I'm
out $40.  Here's where it goes wrong - I can't have my $40 back.
 Virtually every consumer good we know of is returnable if there's a
defect.  My point was that gaming companies need to be held accountable
somehow since shipping out games 50% complete has become almost
standard practice, yet they charge full price.  And, they even have you
brainwashed into thinking it's your responsibility to make sure it's up
to your standards before you buy it.  So how are you going to do that
without playing it?  Read all the reviews you want.  I've read
hundreds, sometimes the bugs turn out to be a lot worse than originally
reported, sometimes they ended up being no big deal...to me.  But I had
to play it to find out.  True, it's a risk/reward, but I bet you if
this was actually taken to court, the EULA would be changed to be more
fair to the consumers, and EA would be ordered to allow retailers to
take the games back if they're defective.  It just takes people
standing up and doing something about it.  You know we are required to
be informed now if SecureROM or other sinister programs are included
with our games?  Guess how that got changed.

Oh I'll be the first to agree the game isn't worth $40 in it's current state, which is why I've yet to purchase it. But I'm not arguing that the game isn't technically flawed, though what game isn't. I'm arguing the notion that someone, aside from you as an individual, should hold companies accountable for shoddy work. You have buyers remorse, you are upset that the product you wanted isn't up to the level of quality you expect. I understand, been there done that several times. You're disappointed and feel you wasted your money, but it ends there and there is nothing to really hold BioWare accountable for. Show restraint. You can read reviews, both professional and player created, it's how I came to the conclusion that the product was not worth purchasing yet and apparently you would feel I made the correct decision so it can be done. If you want to do something, don't buy the game plain and simple and find another you'll enjoy.

As far as EULA's go, I'll have to dig through the internet but I believe a judge concluded that EULA's are not actually binding and legal contracts. It may have been overturned or been releated to specific cases so I'll have to look it up again.

By the way, the BBB
does not have authority to make a company change what they do, they
just monitor unresolved complaints so that people who want to research
various companies can decide if they want to do business with them.  If
all the unhappy purchasers of this game called the BBB with these
unresolved complaints, it would in fact be registered against Bioware,
EA or both.  So in this sense, the BBB is not useless.

No, the BBB is completely useless. It's an organzation created, run, and financed by corporations. So you have corporations monitoring corporations, does that really sound like it's the best place to look for help?

Now do I want to sue over $40?  No.  But doing SOMETHING is also being a responsible consumer.

Yep, exercise your right to not purchase their product and instead purchase something you will enjoy. Keep your standards as your own and don't expect others to comply by them. The people who love Awakening are no more right or wrong then you. 

There's alot of silence from above on these boards, moreso than any
other game I've been involved with..and I just wonder why sometimes.

That's what I like to call the EA effect.

Don't know why but developers under that flag, and really any major publishers flag, tend to be more quiet than the independents. Guess they don't want to risk anything accidentally slipping or that direct contact with the community isn't as important as a lot of the smaller developers see it.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 19 avril 2010 - 01:45 .

[CybAnt1]

As far as EULA's go, I'll have to dig through the internet but I believe a judge concluded that EULA's are not actually binding and legal contracts.

Yes, because they contain illegal and unenforceable bullsh*t for clauses. 

I can hand you a contract that says you turn over your firstborn child to me for human sacrifice. You can, for whatever silly reason, sign it. That's still not a binding contract. It contains an illegal clause. Any court worth its salt would throw it out. I reiterate: the only reason the software industry is continuing to use bs eula's like that is nobody is challenging them sufficiently in court. 

NO ONE can hold themselves totally immune from ALL consequences of using their product, nor say you MUST accept it AS IS. 

[Feraele]

CybAnt1 wrote...

As far as EULA's go, I'll have to dig through the internet but I believe a judge concluded that EULA's are not actually binding and legal contracts.

Yes, because they contain illegal and unenforceable bullsh*t for clauses. 

I can hand you a contract that says you turn over your firstborn child to me for human sacrifice. You can, for whatever silly reason, sign it. That's still not a binding contract. It contains an illegal clause. Any court worth its salt would throw it out. I reiterate: the only reason the software industry is continuing to use bs eula's like that is nobody is challenging them sufficiently in court. 

NO ONE can hold themselves totally immune from ALL consequences of using their product, nor say you MUST accept it AS IS. 

yeah I read that somewhere too..that EULAS are not upholdable in a court of law.   Although they make you "think" by their wording that..it is a legal and binding contract.

What would it take to challenge that and get it changed to something a little more "legal"?   I have no idea, would probably involve international law in some respect.   Soley due to the fact that many games have an international community.

Maybe there will come a day....

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...
I just want to contradict the OP on this one item in his OP.
Bug fixing. After 15 years of online gaming (MMOs) ...I have never yet seen a bug fixed "right the next day". Some MMOs take MUCH longer as ..long as up to 6 months to get around to fixing certain bugs that interfere with..balance, pvp gameplay etc. I cite LOTRO as an example here. Wow also had some bugs right from the get-go just after release..those took a while to get fixed too. They have to track them down, and it all depends how well the feedback from players, describes the bug or bugs..so that the Devs, code monkeys whatever the title is, can actually find them and..then figure what needs fixing.
Game like Vanguard...chock full of bugs, bad pathing..etc. Mobs hitting you from inside stone walls, ceilings. Beta testers reported these bugs for months on end, product was STILL released with those very same bugs still existing.
All depends if the QA dept is doing their job, if the bug reporting gives some factual information, and then finding and resolving said bug or bugs.
So right the next day...never happens..

And obviously our resident rabid fangirl comes to the defense. Unfortunately for you, your post is spoken like a  true fangirl, but utterly (and i suspect intentionally) false.

There are several instances in which major bugs in major MMORPGs are corrected the very next day, or at the very least in very few days. Warhammer online, for all it's faults and despite the fact that had their QA team maimed by layoffs, had bugs fixed in a day or so quite often. The same happens often in WoW, and in several other MMOs.

Why? Because MMOs live on subscriptions, and if people encounter gamebreaking bugs that don't get solved promptly, they quit.

Bioware has seriously become one of the lousiest software houses around in fixing the miryad of bugs that plague their games, expecially dragon age, now that the priority seems to have shifted elsewhere. Even Relic, that has a very bad track record in their QA, managed to patch the problems in the expansion of DOW2, and even did a major rebalancing much faster than what Bioware is taking to patch Awakenings.
And mind you, the "but we have to wait certification Waaaaah!" excuse doesn't work. Relic has to wait for Microsoft's certification as well due to Games for Windows Live.

Honestly, one really needs to be a rabid and delusional fanboy to defend Bioware in this issue. Only fanboys of the most delusional kinda defend a company that's damaging their own enjoyment alomngside that of everyone else that bought the game.

[13Dannyboy13]

The bottom line is that EA calls the shots now, and from their track record they only care about money and not support as is evident with this game and other EA games. Six months after release and they haven't even fixed the simplist bugs that modders were fixing the first week or even given consoles the same fixes as the pc version. (yes,I know there are differences, but I'm talking about simple fixes like the dex bug)
Sadly the only people that can hold them acountable are us, the people that buy their games, and the only way we can make them listen is with our wallets. Simply saying that they are "looking into" fixing the game really doesn't mean sh*t at this point, as it's already been six months of that with nothing to show except more stuff to take our money without giving us any fixes. (DLC/expansion)
As for bugs I've run into probably every possible bug that there is on the 360, and that is quite a lot. Save corruption (lost 240 hours and multiple characters), dex still broken, bug in orzamaar where you try to play both sides and get caught in an endless loop, missing quests, missing quest rewards just to name a few. I mean a few bugs is understandable, but there are way too many in this game and they seem to make no effort at all to fix anything, because at the end of the day they have our money and technically have no obligation to fix the game.
I'm sure most of the people making mods would let them use them for free, since they're free anyways if you play on the pc, or they can look at how the modder fixed a certain bug and make their own fix from that, but after six months they have done absolutely nothing, the support is non-existant. As for posting on the technical boards, they are FULL of bug reports from people, so adding more of the same is useless. Anyways, that's my opinion, everyone has to make up their own mind, but sadly the way I see it Bioware died when EA bought them and it will only continue to go downhill from here.

Modifié par 13Dannyboy13, 19 avril 2010 - 06:40 .

[Realmzmaster]

Interesting! Are we saying that everyone who comes to BioWare's defense because they did not have a problem with DA:O or DA:A is a fanboy or fangirl? Are the so-called fanboy or fangirl suppose to sit idlely in the corner and let evryone on the forum believe that everyone is having a problem? What the so-called fanboy or fangirl do not get to voice their opinion? Feraele is not the resident rabid fangirl.

Just because her experience and opinion does not mesh with yours does not make her a rabid fangirl. I find her posts at least speak to common sense instead of a lot of the ranting and raving that goes on.
Call me a fanboy if you like. I really do not care. I like Feraele did not encounter any game stopping bugs in DA:O or DA:A. I enjoyed playing the game and expansion. I will make my opinion and experiences known just as much as anyone else.

I paid my money and registered my games. I have as much a right to state my opinion as any one else on this forum.
No government agency or otherwise is going to get in the business of trying to police software. If that were the case the government would have to start with it's own programmers.

Also Q&A teams do not find all the bugs. The mine bug which has been documented by many never occurred for a great many gamers. Which makes it a hard bug to track down. I was wearing the Helm of Honnelath on my warden had no trouble getting it back from the experimental subject.

So how is my situation different from those who encounter the bug? BioWare needs to know what equipment you are running, what operating system you are using and what mods you are running.
Some bugs are not bugs but software interactions.

Example one person on the forum experienced a problem with screenshots and thought it was a bug. On later investigation found it was the print screen utility he had installed that was causing the problem not the game. Other people forgot they had certain mods installed for DA:O that broke Awakening. Is that BioWare's fault?

Yes there are bugs in DA:O and DA:A. Most are at best annoying. For some gamers they are game breaking. It needs to be reported and BioWare needs to correct them.

Gamers can rant, rave and threaten. It is good if you want to vent your frustrations, but if it is not back up with constructive thought and examples you are just blowing in the wind.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 19 avril 2010 - 06:52 .