340 réponses à ce sujet

[Aeropostle]

Haexpane wrote...

DanaScu wrote...

Aeropostle wrote...

Not whining, acting. I've already contacted the national BBB and filed a complaint. On Monday, it's searching for a reporter interested in this story. You can continue to sit on your arse, take it, and make smart arse comments. You obviously feel you're not worth paying attention to, so I won't pay any further attention to you either.

Have you ever read the EULA? 

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED TO YOU
“AS IS,” WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WITHOUT
PERFORMANCE ASSURANCES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT
YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. EA AND EA’S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY “EA” FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 8) DO NOT MAKE, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION, UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE.

 

EA DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST
INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SOFTWARE; THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL
MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; THAT OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE
UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL INTEROPERATE OR
BE COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OTHER SOFTWARE OR THAT ANY ERRORS IN THE SOFTWARE
WILL BE CORRECTED.
 

game

set

match

Actually, not enforceable in a court of law if anyone decided to challenge it.  It's too one-sided to be a legal and binding contract/agreement.  It's just, they figure, who's going to have the cajones and the finances to challenge them?

Come to think of it, someone might have, because they now have to disclose - on the box - whether or not there is copy protection being used like Secure-Rom.

[Malfurus]

Eurypterid wrote...

Obviously you're upset, but can you point out these problems? In your entire post, you never once mentioned a specific problem, nor did you post your system specs and whether or not you're running any mods. Some of this information could possibly end being something important and could possibly lead to someone pointing out a solution for you.

Stating that there are 'major bugs' without even bothering to list them is no help to anyone and makes your post little more than a rant and tough to take seriously.

Are you a moron moderater or are you just being coy? I think its both. He doesn't need to point out specific bugs because they're all over your ****ing mods smart ass. Its not individual basis, but rather groups of people are experiencing problems because of YOUR (Bioware's) error, not because their computer can't handle it or because of mods, even though SOMETIMES that could be the case, but in this post he's refrring to the MANY problems that people keep facing and that can't be fixed until YOU fix then. So how about you get of your ass and stop being coy with us? We're not children who can be easily fooled by stupid comments and posts like yours. 

*edit* Oh, and BLOWare: yes, you're allowed to discuss how lousy you think the game is. But you're not allowed to sling insults at other forum members. I suggest reading the rules of conduct before posting further.

[Urshakk]

^^ if you're going to insult a moderator can you at least quote your post right?

[Aeropostle]

Haexpane wrote...

Feraele wrote...
 

All of a sudden GOOD customer service has gone out the window, a

 

There is nothing "sudden" about it.  Good customer service is expensive and has a poor ROI.  DAO is an EA game, EA's customer service is what it is, poor and has been poor for a long time now.

Name 1 big company with good customer service?  The best CS I've ever had was at small businesses not giant corporations tied up in legal handcuffs of chain stores.

Actually, being a marketing executive for the last 16 years, I can tell you that good customer service drives ROI.  Companies with the best customer service?
 - Southwest Airlines.  First five years in the red (to be expected), but is the only airline to be in the black the last 20+ years and counting.  Also, only airline never to have been bailed out of a bankruptcy.
 - USAA Insurance, servicing predominantly military personnel and their families.  Ask anyone from the military about them.  Again, extremely profitable.
 - Nordstrom.  Stories or their customer service are legendary and they are the most often studies model for customer service.  Why?  Because they make money hand over fist.
 - Some other well-known, and extremely profitable companies known for their customer service:
Lexus, Cadillac, Ritz-Carlton, Four Seasons, Edward Jones, UPS, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Starbucks, Porsche, Hertz, FedEx...to name a few.

Now tell me this wouldn't have a long-term effect on ROI for Bioware and EA in regards to this game (to simplify).
Get on the forums, apologize for how buggy the game has been, be extremely quick to answer tech questions, tell us how they're going to make it right (patch, most likely) and when to expect it.  Tell us a date that's further out than when they think they'll actually have it ready so that they can underpromise and overdeliver.  Update us along the way about how the patch is going.  Take a look at their customer service program and look at ways they can better communicate to their public via Twitter and Facebook.  Contact game magazines and tell them how they're improving their customer service, maybe cite some examples of games gone bad and how they fixed those.

And this is just marketing/PR 101.  There are a lot of other things that can be done.  This effort would go a long way toward satisfying their customer base and winning their fans back if they follow through in the long run.  Compare that to how we're being treated now.  Sales on their next game are going to be slow, I guarantee it.  Why?  Mainly because of customer service and their complete disregard for accountability.

Bioware/EA have quite the opportunity here, really.  In a crowded publisher/developer market, rife with poor customer service, how much market share could they grab being known as the developers/publishers with the best customer service?

The public understands mistakes are going to happen.  But if the company doesn't make it right by the consumers, profitability in the long run will suffer.  This, as opposed to a company known for its excellent customer service which the public is going to trust.  Even if a mistake is made by this company (or a buggy game comes out, for example), consumers of that game will be confident that it will at least get fixed as soon as possible.

Good customer service is indeed, an excellent ROI.  And the companies that do it best, make the most profit.

[Aeropostle]

Malfurus wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

Obviously you're upset, but can you point out these problems? In your entire post, you never once mentioned a specific problem, nor did you post your system specs and whether or not you're running any mods. Some of this information could possibly end being something important and could possibly lead to someone pointing out a solution for you.

Stating that there are 'major bugs' without even bothering to list them is no help to anyone and makes your post little more than a rant and tough to take seriously.

Are you a moron moderater or are you just being coy? I think its both. He doesn't need to point out specific bugs because they're all over your ****ing mods smart ass. Its not individual basis, but rather groups of people are experiencing problems because of YOUR (Bioware's) error, not because their computer can't handle it or because of mods, even though SOMETIMES that could be the case, but in this post he's refrring to the MANY problems that people keep facing and that can't be fixed until YOU fix then. So how about you get of your ass and stop being coy with us? We're not children who can be easily fooled by stupid comments and posts like yours. 

*edit* Oh, and BLOWare: yes, you're allowed to discuss how lousy you think the game is. But you're not allowed to sling insults at other forum members. I suggest reading the rules of conduct before posting further.

Yes, already done several pages ago.  Also, the tech forums are littered already with hundreds of people with the same issues I've had.  No reason to muck it up with another post.

[TheMadCat]

Haexpane wrote...

Feraele wrote...
 

All of a sudden GOOD customer service has gone out the window, a

 

There is nothing "sudden" about it.  Good customer service is expensive and has a poor ROI.  DAO is an EA game, EA's customer service is what it is, poor and has been poor for a long time now.

Name 1 big company with good customer service?  The best CS I've ever had was at small businesses not giant corporations tied up in legal handcuffs of chain stores.

How bout 10? If you' like I can add in another 25, 50, or 500.

articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/10-best-companies-for-customer-service.aspx

I will agree, EA's CS is just awful and it always has been, BioWare prior to EA wasn't exactly a model for companies to follow either. But don't act stupid, there are plenty of large companies with great CS.  Hell a few of those I listed, Publix Super Markets and Ace Hardware, survive only because of their great customer service. It's been proven time and against through various reports and studies that good CS can have a huge ROI, but because it takes such a large inital investment and a long period of time before returns are seen most companies simply neglect it and do enough to get by. EA has bad CS, not because its a standard or because it wouldn't benefit them, it's because they don't want to take the steps.

[13Dannyboy13]

Sadly the only way we'll ever see good customer service from BiowEAre is if they are absolutely forced to do it. They can continue to sit back and release bug filled games and still make very large profits even when they do nothing to fix it, because once we've bought the game they have our money and we have no recourse. A little PR, or useless DLC, or a stupid contest, and most of the people go back to loving them anyways, they will never change unless by some miracle there is a huge boycott of their games, which will most likely never happen. Take the bazaar for instance, they make a contest that excludes more than half of the community, which in turn angers a lot of people. Then a day or two later we get some hollow sounding, scripted letter and most people just buy right into it without hesitation. They see how easy it is to get away with things and they prey on it for the sake of profit, it wouldn't even dent their huge profit margin to actually fix this game, but they simply refuse to, instead they spend their time on PR and marketing.

[Malfurus]

Eurypterid wrote...

Obviously you're upset, but can you point out these problems? In your entire post, you never once mentioned a specific problem, nor did you post your system specs and whether or not you're running any mods. Some of this information could possibly end being something important and could possibly lead to someone pointing out a solution for you.

Stating that there are 'major bugs' without even bothering to list them is no help to anyone and makes your post little more than a rant and tough to take seriously.

*edit* Oh, and BLOWare: yes, you're allowed to discuss how lousy you think the game is. But you're not allowed to sling insults at other forum members. I suggest reading the rules of conduct before posting further.

Are you a moron moderater or are you just being coy? I think its both. He doesn't need to point out specific bugs because they're all over your ****ing mods smart ass. Its not individual basis, but rather groups of people are experiencing problems because of YOUR (Bioware's) error, not because their computer can't handle it or because of mods, even though SOMETIMES that could be the case, but in this post he's refrring to the MANY problems that people keep facing and that can't be fixed until YOU fix then. So how about you get of your ass and stop being coy with us? We're not children who can be easily fooled by stupid comments and posts like yours. 

[Haexpane]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Ummm... just seems to me that you're telling people that don't like a situation they consider unacceptable to STFU, that's all.

Based on the fact that "every other company does it too" which is not, btw, good justification.

"seems like" not = what I posted.

My point is ALL SOFTWARE HAS BUGS. If you are going to rage against Dragon Age, why not Microsoft Excel?  How about SAP?  PowerPoint? Visual Basic?

[Haexpane]

Aeropostle wrote...
 

This is a great discussion on how gaming companies are not held accountable for selling trash

You are insulting me and every other perosn who enjoys DAO by calling the game "trash".  So you can step slowly down from your high horse anytime now.

[Haexpane]

 

Actually, being a marketing executive for the last 16 years, I can tell you that good customer service drives ROI.  Companies with the best customer service?
 

Not in software it isn't.  Just ask Apple, their CS is insultingly bad "genius bars" and they are raking in profits, stock up, selling more product than ever.

EA is in charge of support for Dragon Age, not bioware.

[Haexpane]

TheMadCat wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Feraele wrote...
 

All of a sudden GOOD customer service has gone out the window, a

 

There is nothing "sudden" about it.  Good customer service is expensive and has a poor ROI.  DAO is an EA game, EA's customer service is what it is, poor and has been poor for a long time now.

Name 1 big company with good customer service?  The best CS I've ever had was at small businesses not giant corporations tied up in legal handcuffs of chain stores.

How bout 10? If you' like I can add in another 25, 50, or 500.

articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/10-best-companies-for-customer-service.aspx

 

The top 10CompanyIndustryAmazon.comOnline
retailUSAAInsuranceJaguarAutomobilesLexusAutomobilesThe
Ritz CarltonHotelsPublix
Super MarketsGrocery storesZappos.comOnline
retailHewlett-PackardPersonal
computersT. Rowe PriceAsset
managementAce HardwareHome
improvement

not one software company.    2 of the top 2 are car mfgs, 2 are online retailers, 2 are service industries.

[Haexpane]

Malfurus wrote...
  So how about you get of your ass and stop being coy with us? We're not children who can be easily fooled by stupid comments and posts like yours. 

ARe you sure you are not children? With rambling hater E-rage rants like that it paints you as one.

[CybAnt1]

My point is ALL SOFTWARE HAS BUGS. If you are going to rage against Dragon Age, why not Microsoft Excel?  How about SAP?  PowerPoint? Visual Basic?

And you know whether or not I have submitted bug reports for other software ... and yes, even gone so far as to complain about unfixed bugs in other software .... how?

Just letting you know I have ... and that in productivity situations, I consider this less acceptable. 

However, just because this is a game, for entertainment, does not mean that any level of non-functionality is acceptable. Sorry. 

[TJSolo]

Haexpane wrote...

Aeropostle wrote...
 

This is a great discussion on how gaming companies are not held accountable for selling trash

You are insulting me and every other perosn who enjoys DAO by calling the game "trash".  So you can step slowly down from your high horse anytime now.

I am not so attached to the game as to have my enjoyment of Origins be demeaned if someone calls it or the expansion trash nor do I feel insulted to don't try to speak for me as a gamer. kthanx.

If all software has bugs then all software can be called flawed and needing improvement. In this case the improvement can come in the form of user mods or official patches. The statement all software has bugs is not a free pass to remain buggy.

If you want people to sit down and shut up. You should be the first to follow that advice.

[TJSolo]

Haexpane wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Feraele wrote...
 

All of a sudden GOOD customer service has gone out the window, a

 

There is nothing "sudden" about it.  Good customer service is expensive and has a poor ROI.  DAO is an EA game, EA's customer service is what it is, poor and has been poor for a long time now.

Name 1 big company with good customer service?  The best CS I've ever had was at small businesses not giant corporations tied up in legal handcuffs of chain stores.

How bout 10? If you' like I can add in another 25, 50, or 500.

articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/10-best-companies-for-customer-service.aspx

 

The top 10CompanyIndustryAmazon.comOnline
retailUSAAInsuranceJaguarAutomobilesLexusAutomobilesThe
Ritz CarltonHotelsPublix
Super MarketsGrocery storesZappos.comOnline
retailHewlett-PackardPersonal
computersT. Rowe PriceAsset
managementAce HardwareHome
improvement

not one software company.    2 of the top 2 are car mfgs, 2 are online retailers, 2 are service industries.

You called for a good company, not specifically software related. HP does fall into software since most of the products rely on software to perform.
Another funny bit is if you look at the top 25 list, Apple. The company you mentioned as not liking is sitting at the no20 spot.

[TheMadCat]

Haexpane wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Feraele wrote...
 

All of a sudden GOOD customer service has gone out the window, a

 

There is nothing "sudden" about it.  Good customer service is expensive and has a poor ROI.  DAO is an EA game, EA's customer service is what it is, poor and has been poor for a long time now.

Name 1 big company with good customer service?  The best CS I've ever had was at small businesses not giant corporations tied up in legal handcuffs of chain stores.

How bout 10? If you' like I can add in another 25, 50, or 500.

articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/10-best-companies-for-customer-service.aspx

 

The top 10CompanyIndustryAmazon.comOnline
retailUSAAInsuranceJaguarAutomobilesLexusAutomobilesThe
Ritz CarltonHotelsPublix
Super MarketsGrocery storesZappos.comOnline
retailHewlett-PackardPersonal
computersT. Rowe PriceAsset
managementAce HardwareHome
improvement

not one software company.    2 of the top 2 are car mfgs, 2 are online retailers, 2 are service industries.

Cool, now explain to me exactly why Electronic Arts can't provide the same level of customer service as say HP or Jaguar and I'll go dig up a list of software developers with good customer service.

[Gryms]

JaegerBane wrote...

Gryms wrote...

I believe game companies should release games that are ateleast 95% bug free. If i buy a Blu-ray player, a DVD, a Car, rent an apartment, I dont expect to have to wait for months to have them "patched" to have them useable.
If i bought a Blu-ray that had faulty parts id get a new one from the store or sent a new one in the post. 3 - 4 weeks.
If i bought a DVD that had horrible menu management or there was a known release issue with the burning the store or company does a recall and i get my money back, a refund or a credit. 2 - 4 weeks.
If i buy a car with a dodgey stereo from a new car sales yard... they replace the stereo (kind of a bug fix?). 1-3 weeks.
If i rent an apartment i expect all the toilets, the oven, the lights, the locks, the drawers, the doors... everything, to work. If not i ring the realestate and they fix it ASAP if its essential like water mains or electrical wiring, or it can take upto 2 weeks for the others depending on what it is.

(Ive actually been unlucky enough to have been effected by each of those senarios yay me)

Every time this argument comes up, someone starts trying to use things like cars and other physical objects as some sort of analogy and ultimately, their point ends up falling flat on it's face.

The concept of only releasing software that is '95% bug free' is utterly nonsensical. You can only be sure you've gotten a certain percentage of bugs if you already know how many exist, and ultimately, the release deadline will always ensure a lot more than 5% of known bugs are still there. It's absolute pie in the sky to expect stuff like this, and trying to compare it to things like cars and whatnot just illustrates how little you understand the actual problems that cause this kind of situation.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if software was tested to the extremes and released virtually bug-free, but I'd also like not to have to pay for my shopping and I'd like to not have to pay for my rent. Doesn't make it any more likely. Awakening was clearly rushed out of the door, as illustrated by the sheer number of game-breaking bugs - it wasn't properly tested all the way through, and that is where the problem lies. Demanding that *all* bugs be sorted before release will lead to 6 year development cycles and bankrupt developers, and no-one wants that.

The whole idea about a percentage needed is not about them knowing there are bugs its about them doing some thorough play throughs prior to releasing. In a time before internet was so common place game developers DID have to make sure their games were polished prior to release because the only way to get patches out was via magazine game discs or registering your game via snail mail or phone. I find it no surpise that since they can If the bugs are purely asthetics and dont effect game play they can be sorted out later, but considerding the sheer number of bugs in DAA it is not the case. There are far too many things that cause massive issues. The fact that the elven woman managed to bug out on me again last night right before the mines was very annoying.

 Comapnies like Eidos released horribly buggy games, lets take Deus Ex 2 for example. I dont think i could play it for more then 30 minutes without it not meeting some script that wouldnt open a door or spawn a boss. Or the camera getting caught behind a door and not moving. Surely multiple testers would have shown this to be the case. Out of this it took a few months for a patch to be released and i doubt the Xbox version ever got updated. Hell it took the community to create a mod pack for higher resolution textures because Eidos was too lazy.

Oh and as for comparing intelectual products to physical, the complexity of a product should ensure additional testing not negate the return clause. If a computer chip company can do recalls and massive amounts of testing for a product that is as complex as the thing that runs our games why shouldnt game developers be held accountable for not polishing off a game right. A CPU not designed right may just decrease performance slightly so its no different than a game having cosmetic flaws. A CPU design may make the CPU run hot decreasing its life span which to me is the equivilent to games crashing from huge memory leaks or game break bugs that stop you dead in your tracks 2/3 the way through the story.  Atleast the game companies have the option of a patch to fix issues, this is not the case with physical products generally. They have to replace the whole of the product. Much more costly in the case of a CPU than regarding a patch. I think the whole "patching" game clients after release has given the game devlopers a nice easy way out by allowing them to say "we can patch that after release, we will have to compete with a much better game if we dont release right now". Honestly i don't even know WHY BW had to get DAA out so fast. It has nothing else to compete with as its solely for a pre existing game.

Ive played BW games as far back as shattered steel... although i didnt particularly like that game it introduced me to the company. I loved BG 1 and 2 and its xpacks... all of which had minimal bugs.  I loved NWN and the toolsets to make new senarios. Amazingly not many bugs again even with the toolset. No it wasnt perfect but just like Blizzards toolset developer it allowed people to use everything the devs had. Blizzard released very few bugs with theirs also.

[13Dannyboy13]

CybAnt1 wrote...

My point is ALL SOFTWARE HAS BUGS. If you are going to rage against Dragon Age, why not Microsoft Excel?  How about SAP?  PowerPoint? Visual Basic?

And you know whether or not I have submitted bug reports for other software ... and yes, even gone so far as to complain about unfixed bugs in other software .... how?

Just letting you know I have ... and that in productivity situations, I consider this less acceptable. 

However, just because this is a game, for entertainment, does not mean that any level of non-functionality is acceptable. Sorry. 

I agree, sure most games will have some bugs, but this game takes that to another level. Not only that, they haven't done a dam thing in six months when they've had plenty of opportunity. The reason people are angry about this game specificly is because there are a huge amount of bugs that have been present since day one, some of them game breaking. They didn't even fix anything for the bug-ridden expansion, which is just an overpriced DLC in my opinion, just added more bugs with a rushed poorly tested product. Just because they can get away with some bugs, it doesn't excuse them from doing nothing to fix the problems, like CybAnt1 said it's just not acceptable whether it's a game or not.

[Abriael_CG]

Aeropostle wrote...
Actually, being a marketing executive for the last 16 years, I can tell you that good customer service drives ROI.

Exactly. It's not random that customer satisfaction courses are gaining more and more importance in marketing and brand management schools nowadays.

The big problem, unfortunately, is that the gaming industry are a whole "do it yourself" field, with a lot of marketing executives and managers that don't have any kind of degree and didn't really get a proper education. Most of them can't even understand the definition of "customer satisfaction", let alone being able to apply it.

It doesn't even apply to customer satisfaction only, but to the whole promotion of games. Just look at how many games are promoted in a way that even the least experienced layman would avoid like the plague? When they're promoted at all.

PS: looks like we have a new rabid fanboy around here, the rude type too... how typical 

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 21 avril 2010 - 02:34 .

[MOTpoetryION]

It also sayss in that top 10 list that in hard times its harder and more important to keep your customers happy. So how would you score EA ? they only care about our money nothing more IMO. And untill they feel that it might change or could stop . they will continue to do anything they want to . Because face it peeps your all addicts and EA is the dealer they will sell us anything and from the looks of things you will buy anything they sell And still say ya man its great stuff have any more. No matter the quality of it. Just look at it like that They give stuff away for free why? to get you hooked. then start selling you low grade stuff after you are hooked . they are very much alike dont you think? i do, and seems to much alike. Both after the same thing and will do anything to get more . And can care less about any of us .Till the next release that is . http://social.biowar...600984/1#600984 check that out it was made by them then just ignored by them that says it all

edit : there is all or most of the problems all in one place affecting way to many different systems to say people are just trolling again . So what do you fanbois ,that continue to back them up with your flamming posts  have to say about that? But the way this forum is if you dont know the name of the thread its almost impossible to find it .

Edit Edit    eurypterid there you go you want more info just ask me i been waiting for one of you to ask .now what i supose you will leave and ignore us again ? And hope it will go away all by itself?You guys are making me  with your disrespect.

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 21 avril 2010 - 03:41 .

[MOTpoetryION]

would like some screen shots to go with that in case you cant read



these are all from a game with no mods install at all  just that quallity  DLC you been pushing out the door gee how is that possible. final battle but i still need to do save the arl? Oh thats most likly my power supply doing that



 this one must be a bad computer causing this huh




i wounder why they are still standing there when its plain as day i already have shale



this happened only on females it the clothes form the leader of the crows after i killed him. some devs have to of seen that before.



oh and this one where  you can get to the anvil without even talking with branka of doing any of carid. trapps



this found  when doing shales quest thats classy nice QA'ing so far



dang this was most likly my cheap video card its only a nvidia 9800 gtx . or is that one  not supported? hmmm this happend many times during a game



this one hey everyone check it out and see if its just my game or just sloppy work ? walk to the yellow box and through the wall its in denerim just keep walking forward without turning to the left around the house from where you start from


Bioware  this one is kind of not fair , but you made it possible to do so. no toolset or modding needed


who said you cant get back in the keep after you leave it ?

i have more ill get then now

[MOTpoetryION]

sorry had no idea the screen shots posted twice

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 21 avril 2010 - 07:30 .