24 réponses à ce sujet

[this isnt my name]

I have a warrior with about 7 points invested in 2h weapons, and want to change because they are so freaking slow, is there any way to make the most of it, or is it still possible this late to make a descent sword and shield warrior that can actually do some damage ?

[beancounter501]

If you are on the PC you can use the respec mod. But if you are going for damage a 2 Hand Warrior will outclass a S&S by a mile. A dual weld warrior will out damage a two hand, but the two hand is more versatile. The key is to spam the special talents.

[this isnt my name]

Yeah I thought as much, I tried to recreate the characters face, its not to bad but I felt the 2h warrior was far too lacking, duel weapons are supposedly the best but I dont like the idea, but I have learned that there is no point in 2h weapons, just like shapeshifter its impractical.

[Meliorist13]

this isnt my name wrote...

Yeah I thought as much, I tried to recreate the characters face, its not to bad but I felt the 2h warrior was far too lacking, duel weapons are supposedly the best but I dont like the idea, but I have learned that there is no point in 2h weapons, just like shapeshifter its impractical.

If you truly think this and are not just trolling, you are very wrong.  A mage (or two) with haste or investment in some swift salves solves your speed problems.  Stop running multiple sustains and you can spam your actives (or add some willpower) .  Also shapeshifting is not impractical, it's a different playstyle.  2H is only impractical in the hands of those that don't properly know how to use it. 

Either the class is not for you and you should try a different one,  or invest the time necessary to play it properly and your impression will change.

[MOTpoetryION]

i just still cant get behind that slow motion swing of his.

[this isnt my name]

Meliorist13 wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Yeah I thought as much, I tried to recreate the characters face, its not to bad but I felt the 2h warrior was far too lacking, duel weapons are supposedly the best but I dont like the idea, but I have learned that there is no point in 2h weapons, just like shapeshifter its impractical.

If you truly think this and are not just trolling, you are very wrong.  A mage (or two) with haste or investment in some swift salves solves your speed problems.  Stop running multiple sustains and you can spam your actives (or add some willpower) .  Also shapeshifting is not impractical, it's a different playstyle.  2H is only impractical in the hands of those that don't properly know how to use it. 

Either the class is not for you and you should try a different one,  or invest the time necessary to play it properly and your impression will change.

I cant see myself playing like that, I have it so my mage is usually my biggest attacker or second, so I would actually be sacraficing some spells just so the hits speed up, I usually have all members independant so relying on a mage would be bad for me, so I think I will just avoid this playstyle.
Shapeshiftin is not practical, it means you sacrafice something good for something bad, it may be a different playstyle but it is inferior and pretty much useless.

Modifié par this isnt my name, 18 avril 2010 - 07:39 .

[Axekix]

If you have the Warden's Keep DLC, the Warrior Blood Power grants a massive haste boost as well. 2H starts a bit slower than the rest, but from level 10 on (when you can pick up sunder armor and 2h sweep) it is a very competitive spec with good gear. Pump strength and keep indomitable up at all times and you should be good to go.

My 2h warrior is still my favorite character to date. High damage, passive stuns, huge armor debuffs, 2 on demand crits which proc shatter, and complete immunity to stun and KD? What's not to like?

Modifié par Axekix, 18 avril 2010 - 09:06 .

[soteria]

2h warriors have a lot of things going for them, but "good if you prop them up with a mage or two" isn't one of them. And yeah, shapeshifting may be a "different playstyle," but that doesn't make it impractical. It has one or two things going for it--kiting with swarm and overwhelm/grab immunity, mainly--but it's still inferior at pretty much everything.



Pro tip for 2h warriors: use sunder arms/armor, the abilities hit twice each and only have a 10s cooldown.

[Phaelducan]

Yeah, I have both Sten and Oghren specced well and with great gear and only one haste they mow enemies down.



Give it a chance, it can be a lot of fun. The single biggest tip I can give is to always hit unwounded targets first in the beginning unless you are sure it won't die before your animation finishes. That is the quickest way to get frustrated with 2h in the beginning... your party kills your target before you do any damage.



Also, I could be mistaken but I believe that since you can basically just focus on strength and also get the bigger damage mod on mauls... that with top-end buffs/gear you should at least be competetive in the damage category.

[this isnt my name]

Phaelducan wrote...

Yeah, I have both Sten and Oghren specced well and with great gear and only one haste they mow enemies down.

Give it a chance, it can be a lot of fun. The single biggest tip I can give is to always hit unwounded targets first in the beginning unless you are sure it won't die before your animation finishes. That is the quickest way to get frustrated with 2h in the beginning... your party kills your target before you do any damage.

Also, I could be mistaken but I believe that since you can basically just focus on strength and also get the bigger damage mod on mauls... that with top-end buffs/gear you should at least be competetive in the damage category.

I did try but it was just not working, your right the part was just killing everything before I could actually do anything, if a character cant contribute enough why are they there ? I may give it another shot in the future but it dosent look to great because it seems like the 2h warrior has to rely on others e.g mage for hast and party to do constant damage while I use slow attacks.
Dose haste speed things up that much ? Or is it still pretty slow.

Modifié par this isnt my name, 18 avril 2010 - 02:23 .

[sillymonkboy]

soteria wrote...

2h warriors have a lot of things going for them, but "good if you prop them up with a mage or two" isn't one of them.

...

Pro tip for 2h warriors: use sunder arms/armor, the abilities hit twice each and only have a 10s cooldown.

To emphasize and expand what Soteria said, 2h warriors do not need a mage's support or swift salve to be effective and fun.  To quote myself from another thread:

sillymonkboy wrote...

• Less dps than dual wielding.
• More dps than 1h/shield.
• Less single target cc than 1h/shield.
• More cc than dual wielding.
• Only melee talent line with muti-target cc (not counting specializations which can be used regardless of talent line.)
• On par with archery for general utility, sacrificing range for shorter cooldowns.
• Focus on strength as your primary attribute.
• Dexterity is irrelevant unless you want to offtank and even then it is not really necessary.
• Some willpower is useful if you do not have +stamina gear.
• Get Indomintable.  Use it.
• Powerful Swings is terrible at low levels and mediocre at best later on.
• Sunder Arms on every cooldown.
• Sunder Armor on every cooldown.
• Two-handed sweep whenever there is more than one enemy adjacent to you.  Despite the implied frontal arc, it actually hits in a 360 degree circle around you with good range.
• Mighty Blow if none of the above are available, or if a teammate is grabbed/overwhelmed.
• Critical Strike is questionable.
• Never wait for auto-swing if any other option is available.
• Learn to time your skill activations so that you do not reset your animations mid-way through.  This will slow you down, lowering your dps.

Good luck.

Modifié par sillymonkboy, 18 avril 2010 - 06:44 .

[Meliorist13]

I never said you had to have the 2H use mage(s) with Haste or Swift Salve to make them fun, I simply said that it would solve "his" speed issue problem. Just wanting to clarify that.



Generally folks that don't like 2H warriors from the get go usually are running more than 2 Sustains, have them active all the time, and do not notice the lower cooldowns and lesser stamina use of the Sunder skills, not to mention the fact that they hit twice.



Too many folks equate 2H sword play with Arnie in the Conan movies. It doesn't work that way.

[xedgorex]

haha idk it was weird for me.

I got really adapted to the animation speed of the two handed weapons and it started to feel normal, and then with haste i felt like i was flying like a mile a minute.

[Phaelducan]

Well, in the beginning I think it is fair to say that it's pretty easy to have a 2h warrior missing their attack cues. Similar to using active abilities on an archer, if your timing is off you can spend a lot of time animating for an attack which doesn't land due to the thing dying.



I think 2H is great, but they have a bit of a leaning curve and require more micro-managing at first than other specs. Once you get the hang of it though their damage is great (mage or not).

[Meliorist13]

The slow speed doesn't bother me, I can go without haste or salves. Like you said, the trick is not cuing up on a mob that is gonna die before your swing(s) land. Generally if they are below 40% health, I choose another target unless it's the last one or I think I can sneak a blow in.

[sillymonkboy]

Meliorist13 wrote...

I never said you had to have the 2H use mage(s) with Haste or Swift Salve to make them fun, I simply said that it would solve "his" speed issue problem. Just wanting to clarify that.

Generally folks that don't like 2H warriors from the get go usually are running more than 2 Sustains, have them active all the time, and do not notice the lower cooldowns and lesser stamina use of the Sunder skills, not to mention the fact that they hit twice.

Too many folks equate 2H sword play with Arnie in the Conan movies. It doesn't work that way.

I apologize if I seemed accusatory.  It was not intentional.  In fact, I agree with everything you have said.  Rather, I was trying to drive home that the perception of 2H being a lumbering, tedious spec is incorrect and generally arises from configuring the character in such a way that most of the combat time is spent waiting on auto-attacks and/or targeting mobs that will be dead by the time your attack does land.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Most of the things people perceive as "gimp" in this game are not. They do however, often use unintuitive builds, and often have to be built from the ground up with that in mind. Shapeshifter is one of them - if you just slap it on a mage not built for it, it's pretty bad. Built correctly, and it's very powerful. Two-Hand is another such - you're going to need some willpower, or a very specific set of gear, but hey, that means it'll end up working out very well with Templar or Spirit Warrior. Archery is disgustingly good if done right, but appears bad at first glance.

[Meliorist13]

sillymonkboy wrote...

Meliorist13 wrote...

I never said you had to have the 2H use mage(s) with Haste or Swift Salve to make them fun, I simply said that it would solve "his" speed issue problem. Just wanting to clarify that.

Generally folks that don't like 2H warriors from the get go usually are running more than 2 Sustains, have them active all the time, and do not notice the lower cooldowns and lesser stamina use of the Sunder skills, not to mention the fact that they hit twice.

Too many folks equate 2H sword play with Arnie in the Conan movies. It doesn't work that way.

I apologize if I seemed accusatory.  It was not intentional.  In fact, I agree with everything you have said.  Rather, I was trying to drive home that the perception of 2H being a lumbering, tedious spec is incorrect and generally arises from configuring the character in such a way that most of the combat time is spent waiting on auto-attacks and/or targeting mobs that will be dead by the time your attack does land.

No offense was taken, I just thought that what I said had been taken out of context, or I wasn't specific enough.  You are very correct in where the miss conceptions come from also.  *tip of the hat*

[Meliorist13]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Most of the things people perceive as "gimp" in this game are not. They do however, often use unintuitive builds, and often have to be built from the ground up with that in mind. Shapeshifter is one of them - if you just slap it on a mage not built for it, it's pretty bad. Built correctly, and it's very powerful. Two-Hand is another such - you're going to need some willpower, or a very specific set of gear, but hey, that means it'll end up working out very well with Templar or Spirit Warrior. Archery is disgustingly good if done right, but appears bad at first glance.

I agree with this also.  It ticks me off when people say Shapeshifter (example) is useless.  I read all that on the forums and gave it a try, and after learning the mechanics and utilizing the information garnered from two pro-shapeshifter players, I found it an enjoyable spec to play.  They are niche specs and require time and effort, but the reward is always worth the early struggle.

I want it all and I want it now, has been allowed to become too commonplace in our society.  But that is another subject entirely.

[JosieJ]

sillymonkboy wrote...

soteria wrote...

2h warriors have a lot of things going for them, but "good if you prop them up with a mage or two" isn't one of them.

...

Pro tip for 2h warriors: use sunder arms/armor, the abilities hit twice each and only have a 10s cooldown.

To emphasize and expand what Soteria said, 2h warriors do not need a mage's support or swift salve to be effective and fun.  To quote myself from another thread:

sillymonkboy wrote...

• Less dps than dual wielding.
• More dps than 1h/shield.
• Less single target cc than 1h/shield.
• More cc than dual wielding.
• Only melee talent line with muti-target cc (not counting specializations which can be used regardless of talent line.)
• On par with archery for general utility, sacrificing range for shorter cooldowns.
• Focus on strength as your primary attribute.
• Dexterity is irrelevant unless you want to offtank and even then it is not really necessary.
• Some willpower is useful if you do not have +stamina gear.
• Get Indomintable.  Use it.
• Powerful Swings is terrible at low levels and mediocre at best later on.
• Sunder Arms on every cooldown.
• Sunder Armor on every cooldown.
• Two-handed sweep whenever there is more than one enemy adjacent to you.  Despite the implied frontal arc, it actually hits in a 360 degree circle around you with good range.
• Mighty Blow if none of the above are available, or if a teammate is grabbed/overwhelmed.
• Critical Strike is questionable.
• Never wait for auto-swing if any other option is available.
• Learn to time your skill activations so that you do not reset your animations mid-way through.  This will slow you down, lowering your dps.

Good luck.

In all previous games I'd really not been a fan of warriors, thinking them too boring, but my DA:O 2-hander converted me!  Advice similar to that above made that playthrough easy, in addition to being a helluva lot of fun to play!  I'd add two more bits of advice:

- use sword and shield during the origin and the Ostagar portions of the game (but don't put any points into S+S talents), until you get Indomitable, Sunder Arms, and Mighty Blow.

- Precise Striking might be useful during the early portion of the game--it'll raise your attack rating, and won't actually slow you down any further, despite the description.

[Phaelducan]

Meliorist13 wrote...

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Most of the things people perceive as "gimp" in this game are not. They do however, often use unintuitive builds, and often have to be built from the ground up with that in mind. Shapeshifter is one of them - if you just slap it on a mage not built for it, it's pretty bad. Built correctly, and it's very powerful. Two-Hand is another such - you're going to need some willpower, or a very specific set of gear, but hey, that means it'll end up working out very well with Templar or Spirit Warrior. Archery is disgustingly good if done right, but appears bad at first glance.

I agree with this also.  It ticks me off when people say Shapeshifter (example) is useless.  I read all that on the forums and gave it a try, and after learning the mechanics and utilizing the information garnered from two pro-shapeshifter players, I found it an enjoyable spec to play.  They are niche specs and require time and effort, but the reward is always worth the early struggle.

I want it all and I want it now, has been allowed to become too commonplace in our society.  But that is another subject entirely.

Well, regarding shapeshifting... as a secondary spec for a mage, it isn't implemented very well. If your sustains stayed up if would have been great, and a lot of fun, but the problem I had with it was that once you shift... that's it, no other abilities worked unless you shifted back to mage form.

It isn't that the forms themselves are useless... it's that when you shift, everything else you spent points on is useless. If you look at the other mage lines, yeah they have an ability which radically alters how the class plays, but they don't make it so you can't use any of your other abilities.

I suppose some might like casting a few spells from a distance then shifting for melee, but it just didn't feel very natural or intuitive when I played one. Again though, it isn't fair to say it's useless, it just isn't implemented as well as Arcane Warrior or Blood Mage as far as a playstyle changing spec choice.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Phaelducan wrote...

Meliorist13 wrote...

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Most of the things people perceive as "gimp" in this game are not. They do however, often use unintuitive builds, and often have to be built from the ground up with that in mind. Shapeshifter is one of them - if you just slap it on a mage not built for it, it's pretty bad. Built correctly, and it's very powerful. Two-Hand is another such - you're going to need some willpower, or a very specific set of gear, but hey, that means it'll end up working out very well with Templar or Spirit Warrior. Archery is disgustingly good if done right, but appears bad at first glance.

I agree with this also.  It ticks me off when people say Shapeshifter (example) is useless.  I read all that on the forums and gave it a try, and after learning the mechanics and utilizing the information garnered from two pro-shapeshifter players, I found it an enjoyable spec to play.  They are niche specs and require time and effort, but the reward is always worth the early struggle.

I want it all and I want it now, has been allowed to become too commonplace in our society.  But that is another subject entirely.

Well, regarding shapeshifting... as a secondary spec for a mage, it isn't implemented very well. If your sustains stayed up if would have been great, and a lot of fun, but the problem I had with it was that once you shift... that's it, no other abilities worked unless you shifted back to mage form.

It isn't that the forms themselves are useless... it's that when you shift, everything else you spent points on is useless. If you look at the other mage lines, yeah they have an ability which radically alters how the class plays, but they don't make it so you can't use any of your other abilities.

I suppose some might like casting a few spells from a distance then shifting for melee, but it just didn't feel very natural or intuitive when I played one. Again though, it isn't fair to say it's useless, it just isn't implemented as well as Arcane Warrior or Blood Mage as far as a playstyle changing spec choice.

Blood Wound and Swarm are absolutely devastating together if you've invested the points in Strength to back up Swarm.  Shifting forms isn't useful in most boss fights (exceptions being Humanoid bosses), but are great in the larger trash fights.  Focusing on quick casting CC, instant gratification damage spells, and boss killing spells like hexes complements shifting greatly.  Swarm is also amazing for covering ground when you need to backtrack.

[Phaelducan]

I guess my question is, though, that isn't anything with Blood Wound devastating? I'm not trying to argue, but I don't think swarm is why it's great.



Also, I know the virtues of swarm, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me to have that be your go-to gig when you have all those other points in mage abilities. It is nice for backtracking, but unless you have a TON of ground to cover Haste works fine, at least in my experience.



Anyways, I'm not saying shapeshifting sucks, I just can't see the logic in having your sustainables not work with it.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Phaelducan wrote...

I guess my question is, though, that isn't anything with Blood Wound devastating? I'm not trying to argue, but I don't think swarm is why it's great.

Also, I know the virtues of swarm, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me to have that be your go-to gig when you have all those other points in mage abilities. It is nice for backtracking, but unless you have a TON of ground to cover Haste works fine, at least in my experience.

Anyways, I'm not saying shapeshifting sucks, I just can't see the logic in having your sustainables not work with it.

The reason Swarm works so well, is because it's free, it heals you, and it's immune to tihngs like grease and earthquake.  It believe it also scales faster with Strength than any spell but Walking Bomb/VWB does with Spellpower.  Oh, and like Blood Wound, it has no friendly fire issues. And comes with potent single target CC for anything the blood wound missed.  And thw swarm benefits from haste's movement speed bonus as well.

Maybe I just find it more useful since I don't stack tons of sustains on my mages generally.  I also don't kit out shapeshifters with trash killing spells like Fireball and Cone of Cold, since the forms will surfice for that.  I build shifters almosy entirely around mass crowd control, and potent single target debuffs.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 20 avril 2010 - 04:33 .

[BHRamsay]

I love 2h warriors -- with a little strategy I can overpower and outlast all but the most powerful elite.

That having been said playing one can get tedious when fighting tons of critters like during some parts of the Deep Roads Run...when I'm being swarmed by deep stalkers, the little buggers can get annoying.