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[smudboy]

Collider wrote...

Sovereign was as interesting as watching grass grow. In fact the only thing I got from the conversation from him on Virmire was "EVIL EVIL WE ARE EVIL MUST DESTROY PUNY HUMANS." There was nothing profound in what he said, basically it amounted to "lol omg u guys r dumb n we r smart"

...

...?

...

What the hell did this guy think of Harbinger?

[cronshaw8]

Collider wrote...

@Nightwriter, the whole exchange would have been more fitting for an ancient consciousness if it did not amount to chest beating. There were no nuggets of wisdom that you would think would arise from being so ancient and long lived, there was only trying to look superior. At most, for me, it made the reapers look like douches.

The Reapers aren't a race of techno-organic buddhas. Why would they share any wisdom with a race they are about to destroy. Do you discuss theodicy with ants? It makes perfect sense they would try to intimidate Shepard, it worked with Saren. And I'm sure it has worked for the reapers in the past.

Modifié par cronshaw8, 18 avril 2010 - 08:00 .

[Collider]

cronshaw8 wrote...

Collider wrote...

@Nightwriter, the whole exchange would have been more fitting for an ancient consciousness if it did not amount to chest beating. There were no nuggets of wisdom that you would think would arise from being so ancient and long lived, there was only trying to look superior. At most, for me, it made the reapers look like douches.

The Reapers aren't a race of techno-organic buddhas. Why would they share any wisdom with a race they are about to destroy. Do you discuss theodicy with ants? It makes perfect sense they would try to intimidate Shepard, it worked with Saren. And I'm sure it has worked for the reapers in the past.

One way to demoralize the enemy is to be wise. If you can lure the enemy into surrender and hopelessness with wise arguments, that's another step closer to victory.

[cronshaw8]

Collider wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

Collider wrote...

@Nightwriter, the whole exchange would have been more fitting for an ancient consciousness if it did not amount to chest beating. There were no nuggets of wisdom that you would think would arise from being so ancient and long lived, there was only trying to look superior. At most, for me, it made the reapers look like douches.

The Reapers aren't a race of techno-organic buddhas. Why would they share any wisdom with a race they are about to destroy. Do you discuss theodicy with ants? It makes perfect sense they would try to intimidate Shepard, it worked with Saren. And I'm sure it has worked for the reapers in the past.

One way to demoralize the enemy is to be wise. If you can lure the enemy into surrender and hopelessness with wise arguments, that's another step closer to victory.

Your argument makes sense if you are dealing with some sort of traditional conflict: Over resources; over land; or even the sovereignty of one nation over another. I'm not sure there is a wise enough argument to get a galaxy full of beings to agree to their own annihilation. And like I said, it is pretty clear indimidation has been their MO. Intimidation has gotten beings, like Saren, to despair and aid the Reapers. It has worked for millions of years, why would they change now. I understand the desire for information about what is going on. But it is much more realistic for the reapers to withhold information, than it would be for them to explain their motives. Or for them to explain anything at all.

Modifié par cronshaw8, 18 avril 2010 - 08:26 .

[bjdbwea]

InStereoWhereAvailable wrote...

We need a "Vader", or a "Saren" that we can fight, face-to-face. An Embodiment Of Evil.

Yes. The boss enemy in ME 2 makes me laugh more than anything else. It's almost like a parody.

A game such as this needs a strong main villain with a face, a name, cutscenes and dialogue.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 18 avril 2010 - 08:26 .

[Archereon]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Collider wrote...

@Nightwriter, the whole exchange would have been more fitting for an ancient consciousness if it did not amount to chest beating. There were no nuggets of wisdom that you would think would arise from being so ancient and long lived, there was only trying to look superior. At most, for me, it made the reapers look like douches.

Which is why I liked Harbinger more, I hate villiens who think they are big shots and then die so quick <_< least with Harbinger he was very subtle, did not take risk and had epic one liners.

We acknowledge your support, cretin.

[Fizzeler]

Rocket Weazle wrote...

Surely the Reaper-fied Paul Grayson will sufice as a good primary antagonist?
A: He has a plot that connects lots of characters,
B: he will want to bring the Reapers back.
C: He has a tragic element to his charactar, giving us sympathy for him.

or he could be an ally

The Shadow Broker seems the most likely

If it was TIM it would be because of a possible war between the Alliance and Cerberus (after defeating the reapers) and you having to kill TIM to cause Alliance victory (or kill *insert Alliance leader here* to ensure Cerberus' victory)

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

Collider wrote...

@Nightwriter, the whole exchange would have been more fitting for an ancient consciousness if it did not amount to chest beating. There were no nuggets of wisdom that you would think would arise from being so ancient and long lived, there was only trying to look superior. At most, for me, it made the reapers look like douches.

The Reapers aren't a race of techno-organic buddhas. Why would they share any wisdom with a race they are about to destroy. Do you discuss theodicy with ants? It makes perfect sense they would try to intimidate Shepard, it worked with Saren. And I'm sure it has worked for the reapers in the past.

One way to demoralize the enemy is to be wise. If you can lure the enemy into surrender and hopelessness with wise arguments, that's another step closer to victory.

Hmm. I think you are assuming that Sovereign found us worth demoralizing.

I always got the impression that they were trying to portray a creature that was really quite indifferent of us - we were about to be destroyed no matter what (they thought), so what is the point of intimidating us? 

He was sort of just like, "Here is the truth, and it is unavoidable - whether you accept it or not is as irrelevant as you are."

[Collider]

Hmm. I think you are assuming that Sovereign found us worth demoralizing.

No, never quite said that.

I always got the impression that they were trying to portray a creature that was really quite indifferent of us - we were about to be destroyed no matter what (they thought), so what is the point of intimidating us?

What's the point of him talking to Shepard in the first place, then? If he couldn't give a rat's ass about us (being so irrelevant), why does he even speak one single word? What do the Reapers gain from "speaking the truth"?

[cronshaw8]

Collider wrote...

Hmm. I think you are assuming that Sovereign found us worth demoralizing.

No, never quite said that.

I always got the impression that they were trying to portray a creature that was really quite indifferent of us - we were about to be destroyed no matter what (they thought), so what is the point of intimidating us?

What's the point of him talking to Shepard in the first place, then? If he couldn't give a rat's ass about us (being so irrelevant), why does he even speak one single word? What do the Reapers gain from "speaking the truth"?

You and I agree on this point Collider. The reapers clearly see the value of using persuasion, whether wise argument or intimidation, to get organic species to aid in their own destruction. Saren is the most obvious example.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

I always got the impression that they were trying to portray a creature that was really quite indifferent of us - we were about to be destroyed no matter what (they thought), so what is the point of intimidating us?

What's the point of him talking to Shepard in the first place, then? If he couldn't give a rat's ass about us (being so irrelevant), why does he even speak one single word? What do the Reapers gain from "speaking the truth"?

To figure out how much Shepard knew.

You know, reverse interrogation. By letting Shepard ask these questions Sovereign was able to form an idea of how much Shepard knew about what was going on.

I figure Sovereign must have known by then, through Saren, that there was another organic running around with some beacon visions floating around in the old noggin, and that this might mean said organic was onto the truth.

I got the impression Sovereign was sort of assessing the problem.

[Collider]

That's a really good point. Sovereign's words did not make it seem like he was not trying to intimidate Shepard though, at all.

[Nightwriter]

Yeah, well, I imagine the Reapers are so old and tyrannical now they intimidate without thinking. Second nature.

[Sihlarr]

What if it wasn't just a "face" of evil, and instead a "group" of evil? It seems the Shadow Broker will play a large roll in ME3, so maybe he/she/they will be the secondary antagonist (where the Reapers are primary). I mean, the SB has Massive amounts of information, maybe he gets some sort of group that has a grudge against Shepard to work together. This would also involve Liara too, since she's hunting him, that would give her a reason to re-join Shep.. Shep's definitely made some enemies. A group effort would be much more efficient than just an individual going after him/her.. just a rough thought I had, and can probably be called unprobable, but, worth voicing I guess.. Unfortunately my own idea reminds me of The Legion of Doom or something lol

[Nightwriter]

Sihlarr wrote...

What if it wasn't just a "face" of evil, and instead a "group" of evil? It seems the Shadow Broker will play a large roll in ME3, so maybe he/she/they will be the secondary antagonist (where the Reapers are primary). I mean, the SB has Massive amounts of information, maybe he gets some sort of group that has a grudge against Shepard to work together. This would also involve Liara too, since she's hunting him, that would give her a reason to re-join Shep.. Shep's definitely made some enemies. A group effort would be much more efficient than just an individual going after him/her.. just a rough thought I had, and can probably be called unprobable, but, worth voicing I guess.. Unfortunately my own idea reminds me of The Legion of Doom or something lol

This is certainly a possibility, and one I wouldn't mind seeing.

I'd actually be really disappointed if we never found out the identity of the Shadow Broker by the end of game three - and I'd also be disappointed if it didn't turn out to be someone we already know.

[Collector General]

smudboy wrote...

Collider wrote...

Sovereign was as interesting as watching grass grow. In fact the only thing I got from the conversation from him on Virmire was "EVIL EVIL WE ARE EVIL MUST DESTROY PUNY HUMANS." There was nothing profound in what he said, basically it amounted to "lol omg u guys r dumb n we r smart"

...

...?

...

What the hell did this guy think of Harbinger?

I AM ASSUMING HE LOST CONTROL. WITH LAUGHTER.

[sammcl]

I don't think it will be TIM, he'll never agree with you but to actively hunt you down seems to go against his goals. Unless we find out absolutely everything he said was a lie, he's actually a reaper agent and Harbinger was a rogue reaper, creating a human reaper which goes against the reapers' beliefs. Might explain why all the reapers we've seen look the same but apparently they create themselves to look like the species they're liquifying. (FYI i hope this doesn't happen >_>)

The shadow broker might make sense as a reaper agent since he was handing Shepard over to the collectors and nobody knows anything about him. In the first game we heard that he buys and sells information but that there is usually no effect on the galaxy, everything evens out. He could be a way for the reapers to control our society's evolution through information distribution. It would also give a reason for Liara to rejoin the team and explain her story.

I hope it's the shadow broker and that the reason for finding him is to gain information about the reapers to aid in the final battle. I also hope the shadow broker is Harbinger working through a group of agents and that each one holds some info we need. What i really don't want is for the final mission to be a space battle when the game is focused on squad combat. The final mission should be a squad mission, like infiltrating Harbinger for some virus to shut down the rest of the reapers while our allies slow down the reaper fleet.

[Sihlarr]

Can't say I'd like a space battle either.. too much of a risk for it to be something just thrown in or not polished enough.. like, say, planet scanning. No one wants the final battle to be annoying lol

[Kaiser Shepard]

cronshaw8 wrote...

The "Shepard declared rogue" is probably a no go. It would require BioWare to make two completely different games with two completely different antagonists. One for the Renegade players who flipped off the council and gave the collector base to the Illusive Man. And one for the Paragons who got reinstated as a specter, blew up the base, and flipped off the Illusive Man.

Like how Mass Effect 2 had to be two completely different games as well? How the game would be radically different depending on your choices in the first game?

Don't delude yourself: the Mass Effect trilogy is simply a journey from A to B to C, where only C has the potential of being radically different because continuity won't be an issue anymore. There are many different paths, but the main journey stays the same.

Dunno if we will get another charismatic big bad/dragon, though, because TIM already fulfills the role of charismatic chessmaster/magnificent bastard. The Reapers will probably represent themselves this time in the form of a seemingly unstoppable force, with Shepard possibly following in Saren's footsteps (to a certain extent).

[Jonathan Shepard]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't think it would be TIM. I would prefer a more mobile antagonist rather than say one who is pulling the strings as TIM would be more like Sovereign than Saren.

He just nailed it.

Besides. TIM brought you back to fight the Reapers. It'd be stupid and downright in the vein of blatantly ignoring previous storyline. No way he's gonna side with the Reapers.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't think it would be TIM. I would prefer a more mobile antagonist rather than say one who is pulling the strings as TIM would be more like Sovereign than Saren.

He just nailed it.

Besides. TIM brought you back to fight the Reapers. It'd be stupid and downright in the vein of blatantly ignoring previous storyline. No way he's gonna side with the Reapers.

At least not for the sake of simply siding with the Reapers out of fear or possibly for revenge. If TIM appears to ally himself with the Reapers, he will no doubt have some sort of ulterior motive.

[skcih-deraj]

ME3 does not need a new Saren; could he come back... sure.

Harbinger could make some avatar which he speaks through and has some kind of indoctronation effect to get in shepard's head making shep have to fight through  mind games that would involve having to talk or even fight past enemies or friends that might have died in the last two games.

All that while you have to build up your team,gather allies to fight the reapers.  Also I kind of like the idea of the council or cerberus hunting you down while your on the mission anything can happen we already had a sentinal from xmen as the last boss in ME2.