87 réponses à ce sujet

[Elvis_Mazur]

When they say "700 choices" they are considering all the choices you can make in the first game and 98% of the choices you made doesn't have an importance. No matter what choice you made, the base of the story is always the same.

[camcon2100]

i hated this big descion at the end of ME1 and they dont even show the human or new alien concil.....It is crap

[Stoko981]

camcon2100 wrote...

i hated this big descion at the end of ME1 and they dont even show the human or new alien concil.....It is crap

Yeah. I mean let's face it, if they could get in the same three voice actors as in the first game just for that little cameo that non-importers can't even see, I can't see why it would have been so hard to drum up a few new characters to act as those other possible councils. Heck, they could have even got a little creative and maybe put Charles Saracino on the Council if you played super renegade.

[camcon2100]

Stoko981 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

i hated this big descion at the end of ME1 and they dont even show the human or new alien concil.....It is crap

Yeah. I mean let's face it, if they could get in the same three voice actors as in the first game just for that little cameo that non-importers can't even see, I can't see why it would have been so hard to drum up a few new characters to act as those other possible councils. Heck, they could have even got a little creative and maybe put Charles Saracino on the Council if you played super renegade.

someone really got lazy in the devolopment just give us models hell they can even sound the same but common nothing:unsure:

[icarus414]

Stoko981 wrote...

How the heck do all these random folks get my email address anyway? I mean what, is it shepard@cerberus.org? Did it get broadcast on the extranet along with the story of my resurrection? I mean hell, I don't only have people I met for five minutes as I saved their lives while trying to do something else emailing me, I even remember getting an email off an obviously crazy person who escaped the prison ship Jack was on. I mean, I didn't even see that guy, and he knew a) my name,  that I was responsible for the situation that allowed his escape and c) my contact details. Does Shep have an unsecured Spacebook profile or something?

It was insulting the way they hyped the level of impact your choices would make, when really it was such a shallow, cosmetic difference. I mean I remember reading in multiple places the example of "seeing two versions of a scene that played out very differently depending on whether or not Wrex survived ME1". And okay, so the scenes were different, but the outcome was identical. The missions that followed were identical. Whether it was Wrex or Wrex's brother sitting on that wasteland throne, Worf still hated you.

As another example, I remember getting an email from Chloe on the Citadel, inviting me to stop by her clinic with Garrus the next time we were aboard the station. And I specifically remember heading that way with Garrus for one reason or another, guess I couldn't stop by because my Shep couldn't find his way from Zakera Ward to The Wards.

Or the way you get the exact same Zhu's Hope related sidequest in Illium, the only thing that changes is the colonist rep who gives it to you. And if it's our favourite green asari, she'll email you her thanks for what you did even if you never bothered stopping to talk to her.

Or the way "The Presidium" is now code for "Anderson's Office", which is still his office whether or not he's on the Council and whether or not the Council is all human or the council from ME1. God forbid you should want to explore the rest of the Presidium, such as stopping by your old friend The Consort, who is apparently under investigation for spilling secrets, regardless of whether you proved those allegations false two years prior. Once again proving your decisions really do matter.

Then again though, I don't know why people are surprised. The entire plot of ME2 is thin, it's primarily a character-driven game rather than a plot-driven one, so of course your plot-related decisions are barely given more than lipservice. Of course by "character-driven" I mean "filled with characters", each one will of course run out of plot/dialogue long before the end of the game. Leaving you playing a game devoid of both character and plot near the end. Oh well. There's always ME3. Which will of course disregard every character/relationship except Liara, because every other one could potentially be dead in someone's save. I'm looking forward to it already.

EDIT: And yes, Illium really was just like Shepard: This Is Your Life.

Heh. Bitter, much? I share a lot of your opinions (albeit to a lesser degree), but at a certain point idealism has to take a back seat to practicality. I, for one, felt they did a far better job with ME2 than I could've hoped for, given that Bioware is now sailing under EA's colours.

They claimed that the biggest reason ME1's squad members weren't recruitable in the sequel was that it would create too many variables heading into ME3, and this way they could bring them back without investing an ungodly amount of resources into every possible outcome. All I really need from ME3 is for them to follow through on that and give us (most of) the squaddies from both games as recruitables. Beyond that, if they can keep up the (admittedly somewhat minimalistic) level of consequence and continuity between games that they've shown thus far, I'll continue to be a satisfied customer. More would be great, but I'm not sweating it.

Modifié par icarus414, 18 avril 2010 - 04:07 .

[7th_Phoenix]

Unique-ness in one's playthrough of ME is BS in my opinion. In the end you're either just plowing through as a paragon or renegade. The only difference is love interest and side missions. 

[Darth Drago]

Darkhour wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...


It would be interesting to actually see a full list of these so called choices that are carried over into ME2. I could see if it’s a list of multiple choice things for the same thing. Like for example, paragon choice for Conrad, renegade choice or ignored him would be counted as 3 of these 700 choices.

Regrettably I didn’t see anything close to that 700 or even 300 choices that came through into ME2. Even if you count all the weak and pointless email letters you get its not close. Was to hard to use actual voices for a half of them

What annoys me is the cameo appearances that show up in ME2 “just happen” to be localized in the same areas. Look at Illium for example. You have “RQR”, then literally a few steps from her you have “GP” go around the corner and up the stairs you have Liarra. Go to a little deeper to and you get a Zhue’s Hope person (or “S”) an in the bar you have “CV”. I wonder if they all get together and have lunch?

That’s just crap planning that all those people you met from ME1 are conveniently located that close to each other in a very large city on a planet. If that’s the best BioWare can do for these so called carry over decisions I would rather they focus on other things.

You do realize it is a video game, right? It's that or create a hub world for each individual which is a waste of resources. It's a video game. What I don't get is why people like Emily Wong or Shi'ira, who actually would are located at a place you visit are not present in person.

But I'd take them all being in a single room over a crappy email anyday. The least they could have done was have an email reply system that worked like a conversation wheel in which you pick responses and then get response emails back and forth instead of ignoring everyone who contacts you. Especially for playthroughs where ashley/kaidan was a LI.

-Its just comes down to lazy planning on level designs. Like every main world location in ME2 they were way to small and compact. Illium is the worst because you just happen to park your ship a short walk away from Liara’s office, which is also located a short walk away from where you talk to the person who knows about Thane or hey imaging that, again just a short walk to the person who knows about Samara and wait for it, this is a big shocker as well… in the same location where you meet Miranda’s contact for her loyalty mission. Now mix in all of those cameo appearances in that exact same little compact area and you have a huge cluster #@$% situation that defies logic let alone believability.

Anyone who played Knights of the Old Republic knows that BioWare can do better on level designs for large areas like cities or mabe they just had talent back then. The city of Taris from that game was bigger than the main levels (not including the we can only go there once for a quest locations) of Illium, Omega and the Citadel combined. Its beyond a bad joke is insulting.

But this is getting a bit off topic and I have already covered this to a degree in my own thread.

[IrishSpectre257]

The problem is that people expect the story to be completely different, not just slightly altered. No matter what choices we made in ME1 and ME2, ME3 will play out the same for everyone, only with differences in dialogue, and possibly scenes towards the end of the game. Bioware isn't going to make 2 completely different scenarios halfway through the game based on our choices.



I thought they handled it pretty well. Not sure why people were expecting more than what we got.

[Dick Delaware]

jlb524 wrote...

There really isn't that big of a difference from playing the game with an imported ME1 Shepard vs. starting out with a brand new ME2 Shepard. The only differences are minor...emails or a tiny cameo new players don't see. Nothing major, though.

I'm not sure where this 700 number is coming from.

It's technically true because you'll probably get 700 different emails/insignificant lines of dialogue that don't provide new opportunities or change the game at all. So, while I believe that there are 700 different choices imported, the effects of them are so marginal, it's no surprise you don't notice them. At all.

I don't care so much about the number of choices as much as I do about major decisions affecting the game in the finale. In ME2, you make choices that should drastically affect the future of three entire species, and that's not even getting into what you do in the final mission - I want to see different things happening depending on what you do there so that every playthrough feels different. It doesn't have to be three-games-in-one, but there does need to be variation in who your allies and enemies are/quest hubs/potential companions are going to be.

So yeah, definitely I'd rather have a focus on quality choices. As funny and memorable as his appearance was, I could go the rest of my life without seeing Conrad Verner if it meant there'd be alternative solutions to quest depending on what you've done previous games.

Now that they've got this importing system established I really want to see some serious consequences coming to fruition. I'm cautiously optimistic...

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 18 avril 2010 - 05:26 .

[Dick Delaware]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

The problem is that people expect the story to be completely different, not just slightly altered. No matter what choices we made in ME1 and ME2, ME3 will play out the same for everyone, only with differences in dialogue, and possibly scenes towards the end of the game. Bioware isn't going to make 2 completely different scenarios halfway through the game based on our choices.

I thought they handled it pretty well. Not sure why people were expecting more than what we got.

Oh, come on. We're not asking for three-games-in-one, we're just asking for our choices to matter. This is precisely the problem with a lot of BioWare games - there are choices, but the consequences are usually extremely limited.

Look at games like Fallout, or Arcanum, or Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer. I haven't played The Witcher, but it also manages to put together some interesting consequences according to what I've heard. Fallout 1 ends with you confronting The Master, but how it leads up to that can be different for many players. You don't need two entirely different scenarios, you just need multiple ways to achieve the same goal. You can have the same end-game, but with a very different mid-game. To use Fallout again, if you've made buddies with the Brotherhood of Steel, you learn that The Master's mutants are sterile, so his plans of replacing humanity with them are doomed to fail. Knowing this, if your character's a smart/charismatic guy, you can convince The Master to commit suicide. However, if you've pissed off the Brotherhood, or otherwise never discovered the information regarding mutant sterility, you have to fight him.

Based on that, if I've made Paragon choices in ME1 and ME2, I expect a full rainbow coalition of the species to be fighting the Reapers. Likewise, if I'm a Renegade, I expect my Ubermenschen human gestapo to be fighting the Reapers. That way, you get different possible NPC's / quest hubs / allies (and potentially some enemies that you've made), and sufficient consequences. See? No need to make five different games.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 18 avril 2010 - 05:39 .

[Darth Drago]

Stoko981 wrote...

How the heck do all these random folks get my email address anyway? I mean what, is it shepard@cerberus.org? Did it get broadcast on the extranet along with the story of my resurrection? I mean hell, I don't only have people I met for five minutes as I saved their lives while trying to do something else emailing me, I even remember getting an email off an obviously crazy person who escaped the prison ship Jack was on. I mean, I didn't even see that guy, and he knew a) my name,  that I was responsible for the situation that allowed his escape and c) my contact details. Does Shep have an unsecured Spacebook profile or something?

It was insulting the way they hyped the level of impact your choices would make, when really it was such a shallow, cosmetic difference. I mean I remember reading in multiple places the example of "seeing two versions of a scene that played out very differently depending on whether or not Wrex survived ME1". And okay, so the scenes were different, but the outcome was identical. The missions that followed were identical. Whether it was Wrex or Wrex's brother sitting on that wasteland throne, Worf still hated you.

As another example, I remember getting an email from Chloe on the Citadel, inviting me to stop by her clinic with Garrus the next time we were aboard the station. And I specifically remember heading that way with Garrus for one reason or another, guess I couldn't stop by because my Shep couldn't find his way from Zakera Ward to The Wards.

Or the way you get the exact same Zhu's Hope related sidequest in Illium, the only thing that changes is the colonist rep who gives it to you. And if it's our favourite green asari, she'll email you her thanks for what you did even if you never bothered stopping to talk to her.

Or the way "The Presidium" is now code for "Anderson's Office", which is still his office whether or not he's on the Council and whether or not the Council is all human or the council from ME1. God forbid you should want to explore the rest of the Presidium, such as stopping by your old friend The Consort, who is apparently under investigation for spilling secrets, regardless of whether you proved those allegations false two years prior. Once again proving your decisions really do matter.

Then again though, I don't know why people are surprised. The entire plot of ME2 is thin, it's primarily a character-driven game rather than a plot-driven one, so of course your plot-related decisions are barely given more than lipservice. Of course by "character-driven" I mean "filled with characters", each one will of course run out of plot/dialogue long before the end of the game. Leaving you playing a game devoid of both character and plot near the end. Oh well. There's always ME3. Which will of course disregard every character/relationship except Liara, because every other one could potentially be dead in someone's save. I'm looking forward to it already.

EDIT: And yes, Illium really was just like Shepard: This Is Your Life.

** Some spoilers on in game emails warning **

Now think on this for a little bit, how much more of an impact a lot of those emails would have had if they included a voice actor?
-That prisoner who is about kill that family? Imagine hearing the sounds of them arriving home instead of him just telling you that they are just showing up.
-Miranda’s sisters email to you along with her special reply to Miranda in it?
-Hearing the voices of people from ME1 like Dr. Chloe Michel or reporter Emily Wong?
-The letter from Shepard’s mother? Even as bad as it was as I am told.

The list can go on with even more examples.

It would have been nice if some developer had though outside the entire BioWare office building and thought of adding voice dialog to these emails. Yet they can manage to have the main part of the Codex with a voice actor reading the info. Like how often do you go to the Codex to listen to it? Once maybe twice if you missed something?

I do agree that getting emails to meet up with people that you can not even meet up with is just stupid in every sense of the word. Oh wait! I’m sure someone at BioWare is working on a new download that will include them right? Sorry, even if it was true it to little and way to late. These emails, like so much of ME2 seem half-assed thought of and to me even make the game feel incomplete or rushed.

[Dick Delaware]

I don't even mind the e-mails all that much. Big deal, Samesh Bhattia e-mails me, but I don't get to see him. I didn't care about a minor character like that anyways.



What I care about is major decisions mattering. Right now, major decisions didn't mean anything. Now, this is still completely salvageable for the finale, but fans have to push for it.

[Elvis_Mazur]

i wish i could answer the emails

[The Black Ghost]

I completely agree, it was kind of a cheap trick, the emails. They're nice, granted, but they dont add anything to the story. In fact, it usually goes to signify that there is nothing else you can do with a certain plotline once you get the email for it. Which is depressing.



There were LESS THAN 10 occurances in which I noticed a decision actually carrying over in the form of actual playable/interactable content. Even the most major decisions in the first game dont seem to change anything at all.



-Shiala there/not there-breif change in dialogue

-rachni lady--breif dialogue

-wrex there/not there

-council there/not there (this one is the cheapest of all, you dont even see the human council)

-one scene where the VI on the Presidium has a warning to humans

-helena there/not there on omega and brief dialogue

-the other guy from citadel on omega, breif dialogue

-ashley/kaiden



Basically thats it.

[Kalfear]

I dont beleive for a second there was 700 choices ported over to ME2 from ME1.



But there was ALOT and it made ME1 alive and the replay value great!

ME2 had very few choices and thus the game has no replay value and is very linear and boring in design

[SkyJackal]

People are mistaking the word "hook" for "choice". The article in question talks about how 700 things change in ME2 based on ME1. The exact example they give is the release date of a film advertised at the Citadel changing depending on the council's fate from ME1. It doesn't mean 700 unique choices from ME1 were carried over, it means our choices affect multiple things, both big and small.

Modifié par SkyJackal, 18 avril 2010 - 07:04 .

[Tawg]

Kalfear wrote...

I dont beleive for a second there was 700 choices ported over to ME2 from ME1.

But there was ALOT and it made ME1 alive and the replay value great!
ME2 had very few choices and thus the game has no replay value and is very linear and boring in design

As much as I feel that I disagree with you most of the time,
I'm pretty sure you're completely right here,
I have a feeling taking all my characters through ME2 to be able
to port to ME3 is not going to be as fun as playing each out in ME1;



I wonder if they include your choices to be 'Spacer/Colonest/Earthborn' or 'Ruthless/War Hero/Sole Survivor' or any of the generic 'Facial features' as part of the 700 

that would be a funny sham    (no wow)

[Tawg]

SkyJackal wrote...

People are mistaking the word "hook" for "choice". The article in question talks about how 700 things change in ME2 based on ME1. The exact example they give is the release date of a film advertised at the Citadel changing depending on the council's fate from ME1. It doesn't mean 700 unique choices from ME1 were carried over, it means our choices affect multiple things, both big and small.

That's fine and all, but BioWare is going to have hell from consumers that are expecting a lot more from them (They do make great games after all) if they're advertising one way, and the message is coming across the wrong way for the consumer.

If people expect epic story diversions, perhaps they are being a bit naive, but bioware could make choices do more than change a 'promo release date for a movie' on the Citadel, that is in no way a service to the player, and possibly even a complete waste of their time unless it somehow relates to the story in any way.  (Which I would assume it doesn't, unless that's the date neo-hitler will be at the movies, and them renegad mongrilz are going blow the theatre up.)

[catabuca]

Stoko981 wrote...

How the heck do all these random folks get my email address anyway? I mean what, is it shepard@cerberus.org? Did it get broadcast on the extranet along with the story of my resurrection? I mean hell, I don't only have people I met for five minutes as I saved their lives while trying to do something else emailing me, I even remember getting an email off an obviously crazy person who escaped the prison ship Jack was on. I mean, I didn't even see that guy, and he knew a) my name,  that I was responsible for the situation that allowed his escape and c) my contact details. Does Shep have an unsecured Spacebook profile or something?

It was insulting the way they hyped the level of impact your choices would make, when really it was such a shallow, cosmetic difference. I mean I remember reading in multiple places the example of "seeing two versions of a scene that played out very differently depending on whether or not Wrex survived ME1". And okay, so the scenes were different, but the outcome was identical. The missions that followed were identical. Whether it was Wrex or Wrex's brother sitting on that wasteland throne, Worf still hated you.

As another example, I remember getting an email from Chloe on the Citadel, inviting me to stop by her clinic with Garrus the next time we were aboard the station. And I specifically remember heading that way with Garrus for one reason or another, guess I couldn't stop by because my Shep couldn't find his way from Zakera Ward to The Wards.

Or the way you get the exact same Zhu's Hope related sidequest in Illium, the only thing that changes is the colonist rep who gives it to you. And if it's our favourite green asari, she'll email you her thanks for what you did even if you never bothered stopping to talk to her.

Or the way "The Presidium" is now code for "Anderson's Office", which is still his office whether or not he's on the Council and whether or not the Council is all human or the council from ME1. God forbid you should want to explore the rest of the Presidium, such as stopping by your old friend The Consort, who is apparently under investigation for spilling secrets, regardless of whether you proved those allegations false two years prior. Once again proving your decisions really do matter.

Then again though, I don't know why people are surprised. The entire plot of ME2 is thin, it's primarily a character-driven game rather than a plot-driven one, so of course your plot-related decisions are barely given more than lipservice. Of course by "character-driven" I mean "filled with characters", each one will of course run out of plot/dialogue long before the end of the game. Leaving you playing a game devoid of both character and plot near the end. Oh well. There's always ME3. Which will of course disregard every character/relationship except Liara, because every other one could potentially be dead in someone's save. I'm looking forward to it already.

EDIT: And yes, Illium really was just like Shepard: This Is Your Life.

i love it when someone isn't afraid to let rip

I agree with everything you've written. I still like the game, but my grumpiness is on a level with yours.

[catabuca]

You know what, I think it's because BW took on too much. They wanted to produce a much slicker game, and push their own boundaries, and to overhaul the whole Mass Effect experience.



Everything was re-written, the combat system, leveling, inventory, powers, armour, weaponry, the interrupt system, the levels ... everything. To introduce so much new stuff into an already established franchise may have been a step too far because a few things suffered. No doubt they did a great job with a lot of it, but so many people's expectations took a hit, if not on the whole game then definitely on certain aspects. And the whole promise of deep and wide-ranging effects from your ME1 choices was one of those things.

[Shadesofsiknas]

I was very let down with the lack of substance in the carry over from choices. I hope that ME3 will do this better.

[Darth Drago]

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

I was very let down with the lack of substance in the carry over from choices. I hope that ME3 will do this better.

-Keep dreaming.

The way Casey Hudson sees things for ME3, it will be primarily another stand alone game like ME2 was. Go to the link to the thread about his interview that also has a link to it and what he says.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/2311762/1#2311762