134 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

cruc1al wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

True Zarken wrote...

Soldier - Tungsten Ammo

A waste of points.

Not really if you take the squad versions of Disruptor & Inferno for your henchmen to help them take down defences & CC enemies while taking Tungesten ammo for yourself to maximize your damage is well worth it.
Not what i do myself as i like squad Cryo but still with the right setup it's far from a waste;)

Both Tungsten and Inferno provide bonus damage to health, but inferno will trigger a panic attack in opponents, and it can do that for other unshielded enemies near the one you're shooting. Far, far more valuable than a 6% damage increase to base damage (much less with AP modifiers, upgrades etc.) And you save points by investing fully into inferno ammo, and you get to choose a different bonus skill if you wish.

Inferno also stops health regenration.Tungsten didnt that.Most armored enemies have regenerating health.(krogan and vorcha)

[SojournerN7]

Vanguard/Reave

[FenixBlaze]

Vanguard - Barrier or Reave

Soilder - Fortification, Reave, or Dominate

Sentinel - AP Ammo

Infiltrator - AP Ammo, Reave, Dominate or Geth Shield Boost

Engineer - Warp Ammo

Adpet - Warp Ammo or Slam


Depends but along the lines!

[eternalnightmare13]

Vanguard - Warp Ammo



Infiltrator - Shredder Ammo

[SmokeyNinjas]

tonnactus wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

True Zarken wrote...

Soldier - Tungsten Ammo

A waste of points.

Not really if you take the squad versions of Disruptor & Inferno for your henchmen to help them take down defences & CC enemies while taking Tungesten ammo for yourself to maximize your damage is well worth it.
Not what i do myself as i like squad Cryo but still with the right setup it's far from a waste;)

Both Tungsten and Inferno provide bonus damage to health, but inferno will trigger a panic attack in opponents, and it can do that for other unshielded enemies near the one you're shooting. Far, far more valuable than a 6% damage increase to base damage (much less with AP modifiers, upgrades etc.) And you save points by investing fully into inferno ammo, and you get to choose a different bonus skill if you wish.

Inferno also stops health regenration.Tungsten didnt that.Most armored enemies have regenerating health.(krogan and vorcha)

Which is why you would have Inferno on your squadmates but i've said all that already & dont have the energy to keep up this debate. Sleepy now

[True Zarken]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...
Ok i'll try to explain it one last time as they do say 3rd time's the charm:P

Say your doing a bloodpack heavy mission then giving you squad Inferno ammo will help them in both stripping their armor, stopping their regen and setting them on fire keeping them from attacking you.

While squad cryo will also CC enemies after their armor is gone it does no extra damage to the armor itself so it will take longer for your squadmates to strip a enemies armor if their using cryo then they would with inferno & the same thing will apply against shielded enemies with squad Disruptor.

If your using the squad versions of Disruptor/Inferno ammo then having Tungsten ammo becomes useful as it lets you maximize your own personal damage while your team is destroying shields/armor while also overloading weapons/halting regen & setting them on fire which keeps them from attacking all thanks to their squad based ammo types.

p.s. i've already said twice now that i perfer squad Cyro myself all i'm doing here is pointing out a way in which you can have both Inferno & AP ammo & make them both useful at the same time.

Thanks SmokeyNinjas  I don't have to say a word now

Modifié par True Zarken, 19 avril 2010 - 11:11 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

True Zarken wrote...
Thanks SmokeyNinjas  I don't have to say a word now

Ne worries mate happy to of helped^_^

[cruc1al]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Ok number 1: At no point have i ever said i take Tungsten ammo on a soldier (personally i use dominate on my soldier)
It was True Zarken not me that said it then tonnactus said it was a waste so all i did was point out a way in which it could be useful.

True enough, your reply to True Zarken just sounded (to me) as if you maxed out all ammo powers including Tungsten (somehow the fact that you wouldn't have enough points for AR and Passive slipped my mind).

Number 2: At no point have i ever said its more effective to use the squad versions of disruptor/Inferno with tungsten over using the heavy disruptor/Inferno ammo on shep with squad cyro.
What i did was show a way in which you could make Tungsten useful by giving your squad the Inferno/Disruptor ammo

If squad cryo + inferno is more effective at killing people than squad incendiary + tungsten, then you didn't show a way in which tungsten can be made useful, you showed a way in which it can't.

I myself do use heavy disruptor/inferno with squad cyro as i like the extra CC although TBH its debatable as two which set up would be better as when using the Tungsten setup the team as a whole will be doing more damage where as when using Inferno with squad cyro the team as a whole will be doing more CC so will come down to wether you perfer extra damage or extra CC for which is better to you.
Ether way the tungsten setup is most definitely an effective solution that simply has you trading cyro ammo for ap ammo

What still baffles me is how you can possibly think it is an effective solution to get Tungsten ammo instead of Squad Cryo, when you already get Inferno ammo for your own anti-armor. It is not a realistic assumption that Tungsten + Squad Incendiary will be doing more damage than Inferno + Squad Cryo, because any damage done to frozen targets is doubled, and since they're frozen, you and your squadmates can shoot them more frequently. With better CC, you don't have to take as much cover, your squadmates won't die as often, so you'll clear the area faster.

Edit: I've also just checked out the Soldier (Insanity and below) Guide/Tips/Help tread by average gatsby to see if anyone else thought the Tungsten setup was good & on the very front page it also recommends the Tungsten setupB)

Yeah and because it's in Average Gatsby's guide obviously means you're right.  Compared to Squad Incendiary, Tungsten does less than 20% more damage for a weapon with 3/5 upgrades. Compared to Inferno ammo, it is 5% more.

The difference much less with Adrenaline rush, Passive and other damage modifiers; against armor it is even less because of weapons' anti-armor modifiers and anti-armor upgrades. For these reason alone, the CC from Squad cryo + Inferno is much more valuable than the damage from Tungsten + Squad incendiary; although as I said before, Squad Cryo might just end up doing more damage than Squad Incendiary. Is <5% more damage for Shepard really going to be important enough to sacrifice Squad Cryo?

Modifié par cruc1al, 19 avril 2010 - 11:20 .

[cruc1al]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Inferno also stops health regenration.Tungsten didnt that.Most armored enemies have regenerating health.(krogan and vorcha)

Which is why you would have Inferno on your squadmates but i've said all that already & dont have the energy to keep up this debate. Sleepy now

Did you know? Squad cryo doesn't just stop their health regeneration, it stops them. Plus you get to do double damage!

[NICKjnp]

Vanguard - area reave- anti-collector/harbinger power on Insanity
Adept - energy drain - adds a power to remove shields (though I'm currently trying an Insanity run with warp ammo).

Modifié par NICKjnp, 19 avril 2010 - 11:48 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

cruc1al wrote...

If squad cryo + inferno is more effective at killing people than squad incendiary + tungsten, then you didn't show a way in which tungsten can be made useful, you showed a way in which it can't.

No i didn't no where in any of my posts have i said which is the most effective i said it's debatable. At the most i said tungsten = more damage, cryo = more CC. Do you even read posts before you reply?

But even if inferno+squad cryo was more effective (i'm not saying it is or isn't BTW) that wouldn't render the tungsten setup useless anyway.
Going by your logic all handguns in the world would be useless as weapons because machine guns are more effective & im sorry but that's just a bit dumb. Even if something was better it wouldn't make everything else worthless. 

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 20 avril 2010 - 12:09 .

[Relix28]

Vanguard - Reave/Dominate



Infiltrator - Energy Drain



Adept - Warp Ammo/Dominate

[xCirdanx]

Soldier with Geth shields

[Annihilator27]

Infiltrator-Warp ammo

[Ichaka]

Engineer - Warp ammo

[Comrade Bork]

When it comes down to why I pick AP rounds over Inferno it is because I like the little symbol next to my gun better.

[vpalma]

Infiltrator/ Warp ammo

[jlb524]

Engineer -- Group Dominate (very fun...favorite thus far!)
Sentinel -- Warp Ammo

I'm playing a Vanguard now and took Reave

Modifié par jlb524, 20 avril 2010 - 02:51 .

[binaryemperor]

Vanguard - Slam (I know it's not useful on the greater difficulties, but it is hilarious when used with pull)



Sentinel - Warp Ammo

[FrostGun]

Soldier - FlashBang.

[FoFoZem]

My three concurrent playthroughs:

Adept - Warp Ammo

Sentinel - AP Ammo (will respec out later as Sentinel really has no room for a bonus power.)

Vanguard - Slam (Great for Warp-splosions)

[cruc1al]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

No i didn't no where in any of my posts have i said which is the most effective i said it's debatable. At the most i said tungsten = more damage, cryo = more CC. Do you even read posts before you reply?

But even if inferno+squad cryo was more effective (i'm not saying it is or isn't BTW) that wouldn't render the tungsten setup useless anyway.
Going by your logic all handguns in the world would be useless as weapons because machine guns are more effective & im sorry but that's just a bit dumb. Even if something was better it wouldn't make everything else worthless. 

Your handgun vs. machinegun analogue is relevant only if you know you'll be facing lots of enemies, you're proficient in the use of either weapon, and no penalty incurs to you if you choose neither (the same applies to powers: you can always reallocate points in other powers). In such a situation it would be simply stupid to take a handgun instead of a machinegun because machinegun is better at killing. That's not to say you couldn't be effective with the handgun, it's just that you'd be more effective with the machine gun. Hence, AP for soldier is a waste of points. That's all I have to say

Modifié par cruc1al, 20 avril 2010 - 08:38 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

cruc1al wrote...

Hence, AP for soldier is a waste of points. That's all I have to say

Well thats nice but its still nothing more then your opinion.

When it comes to the ammo on shep both Tungsten & Inferno will strip armor at about the same speed but when they get to health the Tungsten will keep doing full damage where as the Inferno damage will be spread over 3 seconds while it also CC the enemy & has the chance to CC enemys around the one your shooting.

You can argue that the CC is more valuable then the damage but at the end of the day its only more valuable if you need it.
If you dont need it because a Solider with Revenant mows enemys down in seconds anyway then extra CC becomes unnecessary overkill.

As for the squad ammo with Inferno you squad will also strip armor faster therefore your squad will start CCing them by making them dance around fire thereby stopping them from shooting sooner then a squad with cyro ammo would freeze them.

You can argue that the better CC of cyro plus double damage to frozen enemies is more valuable then the faster CC of Inferno but just like above the better CC is only more valuable if you need it.
But if your killing enemies really fast which you can do by charging them with the Revenant then once again the overkill CC of cyro is unnecessary as the enemies wiil already be dead before you get the full benefit from it where as the Inferno CC's although not as good Cyro will happen faster so you can get more benefit from it.

So like i said before both are very effective solutions & as for which one is better comes down to personal preference & playstyle.

Just because in your opinion the Cyro setup is better does not mean that anyone who perfers the Tungsten setup is wrong or is wasting points.
Get the **** over yourself your opinion is not the law of the land.<_<

[Tlazolteotl]

Hang on, doesn't squad incendiary + tungsten actually cost fewer points?

inferno = 10, squad cryo = 10, bonus power = 1. Total 21

squad incendiary = 10, tungsten = 10. Total 20

Well, unless you move the point off of your bonus power with retraining, of course.

[SmokeyNinjas]

NVM

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 20 avril 2010 - 12:06 .