283 réponses à ce sujet

[Nostradamoose]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

I wish you guys would tone down your quotes.

But But but! MOMMY!!

Great, you made him cry! Happy?

I wonder how such a cruel mind can sleep at night...

[thatguy212]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

I wish you guys would tone down your quotes.

But But but! MOMMY!!

Great, you made him cry! Happy?

You Brute

[Kalithera]

Nivenus wrote...

Kalithera wrote...

For one of your points... y'know, Joker was in ME1 and ME2. He was my favorite character. There's not as large a fan base for him as there is for Tali.
On the Joker fan thread I frequent, we think it would seem natural for him to be a LI; the relationship already has some basis. 
(Oh look at me; managing to turn everything into a 'Joker is awesome' post. <_<)

Also, thank you for the post. You had a lot of points, and all were valid. This really helped. 

No problem. I think we all need to get out of our character threads and interact with the others more often. I'm not liking the divisive nature elements of the fandom have fallen into of recent.

As for Joker, you raise a good point. In fact, as with Tali, I liked his character more in ME2 than in ME1. But I wasn't disregarding him. Far from. Rather, I was pointing out that Tali and Garrus are the only party members to carry over from ME1 to ME2. Joker - and Chakwas - is a member of your crew, but they don't interact with you on the same level that characters like Ashley, Tali, Wrex, Thane, Garrus, or Legion do. This, I think, is a significant difference.

Consider Bodahn and Sandal in Dragon Age. Sure, they're fun characters and everyone loves a good "Enchantment!" but in general, the fandom's much more attached to people like Morrigan, Sten, or Alistair. That's because you interact with them on a more complete level, even if you aren't romancing them.

EDIT: I just noticed you haven't played DA:O according to your profile tags. Okay, a better example might be, assuming you've played Jade Empire, Kang the Mad. He's an interesting character, if a bit two-dimensional (but then, the game as a whole is kind of cartoony), but he's no match for Sagacious Zu or the Silk Fox or Sky in popularity. Or, assuming you've played KotOR, there's the example of Malak, who's got a big following in the fandom. But, as popular as Malak might be (and he really is quite), he's not going to beat out the Carth fangirls, the Bastila fanboys, or the people who love HK-47's bizarrely amusing homicidal urges.

Exposure, at least in some sense, usually equals popularity. It doesn't always, of course, and you've got pretty strong examples in characters like Boba Fett, who, in spite of having about four lines in the original trilogy, ended up becoming one of the most popular characters in the entire franchise. But those are the exceptions and, in most cases, a character that's well-written and gets exposure is going to have a bigger fanbase.

Excellent points once again.
And, actually, I have played DA:O. I thought I registered it. It was the game I got the account with. :/ I'll have to fix that later.
*fistshake* Darn you and your sound logic!
I get that. Still doesn't mean I'll give up fangirling over Joker, but I get that.
Thanks. ^^

[Kalithera]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

 Besides Tali and Garrus, as you can see by my avatar, Joker is my favorite. My Shepard would go gay for him if the opportunity arose.

Well who wouldn't? 

[Kalithera]

Platypus92 wrote...

I've been wondering, has there been a video game character who has gathered such love and support as Tali? I've been thinking beck through all the games I've played and cannot think of one that has such a following.

I know! That's part of my confusion. There are some characters that I consider equally--if not more so--awesome, yet they don't have fanbases nearly as large as Tali's.

[JeanLuc761]

Kalithera wrote...

Platypus92 wrote...

I've been wondering, has there been a video game character who has gathered such love and support as Tali? I've been thinking beck through all the games I've played and cannot think of one that has such a following.

I know! That's part of my confusion. There are some characters that I consider equally--if not more so--awesome, yet they don't have fanbases nearly as large as Tali's.

I honestly have no explanation for it, all I know is that she is one of the best written and best voice acted characters I've ever seen in a game.  Not to mention she kicks ass in a firefight 

[Nivenus]

Kalithera wrote...

Platypus92 wrote...

I've been wondering, has there been a video game character who has gathered such love and support as Tali? I've been thinking beck through all the games I've played and cannot think of one that has such a following.

I know! That's part of my confusion. There are some characters that I consider equally--if not more so--awesome, yet they don't have fanbases nearly as large as Tali's.

I think you guys are overlooking a few obvious examples.

Alistair... Carth...

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Because the cellar-dwellars that make up her fan base recognize themselves in her. Trapped in a bubble, surrounded by a hostile world, and doomed to live out sad lives cut off from the rest of the world.





BRB, going to Splinter Cell upstairs to get some Cheetos.

[Divulse456]

In ME1 I found her to be cute, quirky, and useful in combat. In ME2 her character, recruitment, and loyalty missions are well written and engaging. Her character design, like most of the alien squadmates in the ME games, is excellent. For me, that's why I think she's the best.

[FsDxRAGE]

Divulse456 wrote...

In ME1 I found her to be cute, quirky, and useful in combat. In ME2 her character, recruitment, and loyalty missions are well written and engaging. Her character design, like most of the alien squadmates in the ME games, is excellent. For me, that's why I think she's the best.

QFT
I played with her alot in ME1 and she grew on me, i loved her character and personality. Then in ME2 she came back and it was like having your best friend come back and help you out
Tali is a great character

[The Governator]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

She epitomizes the nerdy or geeky guy's dream girl.

As a geek (or nerd) I have to agree.  Her reaction to the advances of Shepard are perfect.  She's just so cute.  I don't expect everyone to like her, and it does not bother me if people hate her.  I like her for her merits alone.  She appeals to a lot of people. 

The question could just as easily be asked why you like your favorite character so much...or why do you like the game so much?  An answer is an answer.  It may or may not satisfy your question but it is no more or less valid than anyone else's answer for questions relating to his or her favorite character.

[sergio71785]

Well, I could write a big ol' essay on why she's so well liked. I'm sure most of the reasons have been covered. Ultimately, she's just a very well developed character that appeals to a broad range of people. Large portions of people just respond positively to characters who are kind, friendly, and they can sympathize with. 

It's unfortunate that so many have such an irrational hate of her fanbase; as far as I know, her fanbase has never done anything collectively against the rest of the board. Oh well, I suppose it's human nature to oppose that which you don't belong to, even if you have no desire to belong to it--and even if it's never done anything against you. 

[Texaboose]

Nivenus wrote...

Well, saying that everyone "discusses" Tali in the Tali thread might be an exaggeration. It unfortunately has a tendency to get derailed rather easily.

But here's my 2 cents, even if this topic has been discussed some half a dozen times already (at least).

First of all, you have to consider that Tali and Garrus are the only two party members who carry over from ME1 to ME2. That there gives them a huge bonus popularity wise because nobody's going to hold ME1 or ME2 against them, fans of either game (and most people are fans of both) aren't going to hate the character on principle the way some people are biased towards one game's characters or the other's.

It also means that the growth in relationship for either character feels more natural than it does in most ME2 romances or even, to an extent, the ME1 romances. It's more of a gradual build-up than a sudden revelation. And, even if you don't romance them, they feel like closer friends than most of the other ME2 non-romanceable characters do, simply because of their history with Shepard.

Secondly, Tali's a well-rounded character. She has strengths and weaknesses. She also isn't as archetypical as, say, Ashley or Liara, who tend to fall into easily defined roles (the female warrior and the hot librarian). Note here that I'm not saying that Ashley or Liara are poorly designed characters. Far from, I think both have hidden depths that people easily overlook. But Tali's unique-ness is more readily apparent: she's a techie, but she's also a warrior. She can be gentle, but she's also got a ruthless edge to her. People like variety in a character.

Thirdly, carrying on with her personality, Tali's got a strong exterior, but a vulnerable interior. Both of these are important, I think. Characters are most interesting if they can carry on for themselves and I get the impression that Tali's very self-sufficient. That being said, she has a vulnerability that she allows Shepard to see, both male and female. I've come to conclude that men really do have a strong protective instinct - we like to feel that we're "protecting" our significant others, even if it's only just in a very minor way. It makes us feel masculine and accomplished. So while Tali is capable of looking after herself, it appeals to our egos that she's willing to accept our help so graciously and that she then thanks us for our help.

Fourthly, I'm not going to deny that part of Tali's appeal is her exotic-ness. Like Liara (as far as I can tell Tali's closest rival as the most popular romance for male!Shep) or Garrus, Tali's an alien. And, to be entirely frank, I think a lot of nerds (and let's not pretend we aren't) are attracted to a degree of otherness they can identify with. Tali's got that in spades, not just as an alien, but as a quarian, a species routinely looked down upon by other species. And, even among her own people, she's something of an outsider. Tied into this is the fact that you never see her face, though I personally put this a bit low on the totem pole of what makes her an interesting character.

Anyhow, that's just what came to mind.

Nivenus sums up the answer to the original post really well. For me it was also a loyalty issue too. Even with Garrus and Joker it was a case of "man it's really good to see you again Shepard, although I really wasn't thinking about you". With Tali, she's still thinking of Shepard even though s/he's not there ("I wish Shepard was here to see this" on Haelstrom). I really don't know what Shepard did in ME1 to deserve this sort of attention, but as far as I'm concerned, this makes me really want to protect Tali in whatever way possible (also falls under what someone - Nivenus? Lemonwizard? said as men generally being protective of her). Maybe I'm just a romantic at heart.

Edit: And on the Tali fan thread - most of it isn't about Tali at all and just a bunch of BS and replies to posts that are already a page long because they've re-quoted 15 people above them. Or just posting the same 1280x1080  pictures that have been posted 100 times before. The page numbers are over-inflated because of this.

Modifié par Texaboose, 20 avril 2010 - 06:32 .

[JeanLuc761]

Texaboose wrote...

Edit: And on the Tali fan thread - most of it isn't about Tali at all and just a bunch of BS and replied to posts that are already a page long because they've re-quoted 15 people above them. Or just posting the same 1280x1080  pictures that have been posted 100 times before. The page numbers are over-inflated because of this.

As part of said thread, this is mostly true.  Only so much to talk about relating to the character I suppose.  

[Zanramon]

Tali

[The Governator]

yeah, I continue to post to the thread because I like the character so much, but really, I cannot think of anything new to discuss.



I just want to see her in ME3 with a HAPPY romance conclusion with Shepard.

[MaaZeus]

Texaboose wrote...
...I really don't know what Shepard did in ME1 to deserve this sort of attention, but as far as I'm concerned, this makes me really want to protect Tali in whatever way possible (also falls under what someone - Nivenus? Lemonwizard? said as men generally being protective of her)...

Perhaps the fact that Shepard is a rarity, one of the few humans who truly accepted her without prejudice to her race, consantly talking to her with great interest on her personality, history and such and in the end being friend... I think Shepard is possibly her best and only non-quarian friend.  (not counting in rest of the crew as Shepard was pretty much the unifying force between them. After his death, they disbanded afterall. No strong bonds there.) Though if you were renegade of chaotic-stupid variety and were complete ass to her, she still says the same lines on Haestrom, but I think they are made with Paragon Shep in mind.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 20 avril 2010 - 06:55 .

[Kalithera]

The Governator wrote...

yeah, I continue to post to the thread because I like the character so much, but really, I cannot think of anything new to discuss.

I just want to see her in ME3 with a HAPPY romance conclusion with Shepard.

I think everyone wants their romance to end on a happy note. I'm hoping for a new romance option (Joker, actually) but I think it would be nice to have a continued relationship with the chosen LI from ME2. 
It would be a nice addition. ^^

[Kalithera]

The Governator wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

She epitomizes the nerdy or geeky guy's dream girl.

As a geek (or nerd) I have to agree.  Her reaction to the advances of Shepard are perfect.  She's just so cute.  I don't expect everyone to like her, and it does not bother me if people hate her.  I like her for her merits alone.  She appeals to a lot of people. 

The question could just as easily be asked why you like your favorite character so much...or why do you like the game so much?  An answer is an answer.  It may or may not satisfy your question but it is no more or less valid than anyone else's answer for questions relating to his or her favorite character.

Hm. That is an excellent answer. Thanks for that. 

[Kalithera]

sergio71785 wrote...

Well, I could write a big ol' essay on why she's so well liked. I'm sure most of the reasons have been covered. Ultimately, she's just a very well developed character that appeals to a broad range of people. Large portions of people just respond positively to characters who are kind, friendly, and they can sympathize with. 

It's unfortunate that so many have such an irrational hate of her fanbase; as far as I know, her fanbase has never done anything collectively against the rest of the board. Oh well, I suppose it's human nature to oppose that which you don't belong to, even if you have no desire to belong to it--and even if it's never done anything against you. 

Hm. Makes sense.
Some of the reasons I've been given for people hating her is that her fanbase is so large, or larger than the one for their favorite character. That doesn't seem like a good reason at all, though. I personally love Joker, but I have nothing against other characters, or their fans.
Just one of those things, I guess.

[Texaboose]

So, Kalithera, do you always toast to Joker when getting drunk with Dr. Chakwas?

Out of curiousity...

[2pac Shakur]

because Tali is the only L.I that loves you from the begining, and this appeals to many nerds



Jack is psychopath crazy **** and does not like you until you force her to



Miranda is silicon fake, and you only do her for sex

[Privateerkev]

People have already put good reasons on here but I found one missing that is true for me.

In ME1 I ended up having Tali in my party all the time because of her decrypt/elect skills. If your not an engineer, you need someone to crack all those weapon cases. As well as someone to repair the Mako. Liara only has electronics. Garrus is better as a sniper than a tech. Kaiden is better as a medic. (you only get so many squad points so you don't want to waste points making 3 techs.) So, the squad tech ended up being Tali. Because sitting in the Mako waiting for the repair icon to come back is really boring, I took her on every away mission. And because you never knew when you'd run into a locked case or computer to decrypt, I had her along. So, I ended up getting attached to the character since she was always around. That and her comments are usually pretty funny in ME1.

When the option came in ME2 for Shep to be with her, it felt far more natural and less forced than the other options. And as others have said, she's the ME1 character who seems the most happy to see Shep. You've gone and invested so much time playing ME1 and most characters are apathetic or even hostile. Tali basically becomes the link to Shep's past actions in ME1.

Throw in other factors like; the mystery of the mask, the total non-mystery of her curves, her vulnerability, Shep's oppurtunity to play the "White Knight", her personality, and it is a total non-surprise that people are drawn to the character.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

The shotgun, lol.



Jack wishes it would look half as good on her as it does on Tali.