93 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

but...the book ends with Duncan taking the baby right? and promising to look after it...nothing concrete (IE in writing) as to the fate of the child?

[LadyDamodred]

No. The book ends with Duncan and Fiona going to see Maric. They meet very late at night where Fiona explains everything to Maric. After that, she will return to Weisshaupt while Maric has the baby placed somewhere to be raised outside of court. Duncan stays to be the Warden-Commander's second in command.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 19 avril 2010 - 03:25 .

[steelfire_dragon]

I think Goldana was bought off

[Thor Rand Al]

sylvanaerie wrote...

wow...ummm this is kind of paralleling my second fanfic (mage PC who was romanced to Al and left him so he could be king and she went on her way). What happened? She had a child and didn't have the taint anymore? WTF?? Okay...Valora is DEFINITELY going to find Morrigan and make her tell how to do that 'Knocked up by a GW' ritual...

There not sure why she's not tainted anymore.  It could be because of the broaches they wore that was speeding up the taint or the pregnancy.  It could of been a combo of both.  I wonder if Weisshaupt ever figured it out.

[LadyDamodred]

From how I read it, she's not untainted. She had the corruption, which is what happens to Wardens when their Calling comes. She managed to heal, and it disappeared. They don't think she will ever experience the Calling again. I just checked again and she doesn't say she's untainted.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 19 avril 2010 - 03:34 .

[Thor Rand Al]

LadyDamodred wrote...

From how I read it, she's not untainted. She had the corruption, which is what happens to Wardens when their Calling comes. She managed to heal, and it disappeared. They don't think she will ever experience the Calling again. I just checked again and she doesn't say she's untainted.

Ya but Maric asks her about the taint and she says it's gone, she maybe the first Warden that never has to endure the Calling again.  Isn't the taint the reason why we go to our Calling because it starts taking over us?

[LadyDamodred]

Hrm. I see what you mean. He says the taint, she says the corruption. I dunno what that means exactly.

[Thor Rand Al]

Problem is we don't know enough about this taint and the Calling. That's one of the reason's I'd like to see a game to where maybe our Warden's start expeirencing the Calling so we can understand it better.

For me there's just not enough information between books and game to really give us a clear understanding of it all.

[Serissia]

The books are actually really good and fill in a lot of the plot holes present in Origins. I highly suggest reading them.

--- Spoilers Inc ---

The taint is what is in their blood. Corruption is what happens if a Warden ignores his/her Calling and lets the taint progress naturally. The corruption is essentially human flesh turning into darkspawn flesh. The only reason that the Wardens in The Calling were even able to see that kind of degradation is because of either the Architect's magic, the enchanted brooches or a combination of both.

The First Enchanter give the Genevieve and her wardens brooches that hid their presence from the Darkspawn. Later on it's revealed that the brooches actually made the taint progress in the Wardens at an unimaginable rate. Fiona was one of the last Wardens to show signs of corruption as she had only been a Warden for about six months. Duncan never showed signs because he was in possession of a dagger (he stole it from the First Enchanter) also made by the First Enchanter that negated part of the effects of the brooch he wore.

In theory because Fiona got to the point where she was actually being corrupted by the taint she somehow became immune to the effects once she was cured. My best guess is that the mages at Weisshaupt Fortress were able to reverse engineer the magic in Duncan's dagger to cure Fiona. Regardless of that fact the Commander at Weisshaupt still ordered her back for observation. If it is true that she is immune to further effects of the taint, she would simply live out her years naturally as any other elf would.

As far as Alistair being Fiona's son, personally I think he is. Maric wasn't the type to just sleep around with anyone. Fiona asked him outright to hide the child's heritage from him so, he'd be able to have a "normal" life. Fiona wanted him kept out of politics and the Court because she didn't want him to end up like Maric.

Modifié par Serissia, 19 avril 2010 - 04:17 .

[Raiil]

I always considered the possibility that Goldanna knew she was a cover story, and that's why she's such a **** to him when they met- she's there to keep Alistair from chasing after any sort of family.



This is how I saw it possibly happening: a woman dies after labour, father unknown. Goldanna is her daughter, but no one actually knows who the father was. Goldanna is asked/forced to pretend that the infant Alistair is her half-brother. I mean, if Goldanna really is the pit viper she seems to be, I can't see her holding her tongue for close to two decades about the whole matter- there was much more gold to be sought if she opened her mouth and started blabbing. And for a women who is supposedly so poor, she lives just across the way from the Arl of Denerim's estate- a piece of real estate that would normally be well above the price of a dirt-poor washerwoman's salary. She could have just as been easily been rude to Alistair because she was caught completely off guard, or because her instructions were to keep him from trying to look too closely at his past- perhaps dates would be off or whatnot.



The timeline errors are mind boggling.

[sleepingbelow]

Serissia wrote...

As far as Alistair being Fiona's son, personally I think he is. Maric wasn't the type to just sleep around with anyone. Fiona asked him outright to hide the child's heritage from him so, he'd be able to have a "normal" life. Fiona wanted him kept out of politics and the Court because she didn't want him to end up like Maric.

Knowing that makes me feel a little bad that my main Warden caused Alistair to 'toughen up' and become a 'good' king.  I mean, not all the way bad, because the country needs him and I think that a 'hardened' Alistair is the best man for the job.  But a little sad that he doesn't get to remain the happy go lucky adventurer that his mother would prefer.  Of course, being a templar and/or a Grey Warden probably wouldn't be her preference either...

One of my big questions is, will we ever get to see Fiona again?

[LadyDamodred]

sleepingbelow wrote...

Serissia wrote...

As far as Alistair being Fiona's son, personally I think he is. Maric wasn't the type to just sleep around with anyone. Fiona asked him outright to hide the child's heritage from him so, he'd be able to have a "normal" life. Fiona wanted him kept out of politics and the Court because she didn't want him to end up like Maric.

Knowing that makes me feel a little bad that my main Warden caused Alistair to 'toughen up' and become a 'good' king.  I mean, not all the way bad, because the country needs him and I think that a 'hardened' Alistair is the best man for the job.  But a little sad that he doesn't get to remain the happy go lucky adventurer that his mother would prefer.  Of course, being a templar and/or a Grey Warden probably wouldn't be her preference either...

One of my big questions is, will we ever get to see Fiona again?

Well, he didn't exactly get the life his mother wanted for him.  I think she would rather he be a good king who is happy than a miserable templar or just another Grey Warden.  He is very much his father's son, after all.  If she knew that, I don't think she'd be too upset.

[CalJones]

I have been in two minds as to whether Alistair is Fiona's child.



The case for: The fact Duncan takes an interest in him and recruits him into the Wardens is a pretty big giveaway. Also, the fact that he also keeps Alistair out of the fighting where possible. This is consistant with the promise he made at the end of the Calling.



The case against: Alistair seems to be too old to be Fiona's child, who would be 18-19 during the events of Origins. I've always estimated him to be around 24, going by facial lines and general demeanour. That doesn't mean I'm right, however.

The other factor is that, if you ask Loghain why he (Maric) didn't acknowledge Alistair, he says "he nearly did" but it would have ruined Rowan, who would have been reduced to the role of a concubine in the eyes of the other nations. Fiona's child was not conceived until two years after Rowan's death, so Loghain's comment makes little sense unless Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born - which means he is not Fiona's child.

A few people have said Maric doesn't seem like one to sleep around, but we know little of the events between Stolen Throne and The Calling. Whilst he does grieve for Rowan, that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't cheat on her. He did allow himself to be seduced by Katriel when he was betrothed to Rowan, after all.



Given that Bioware aren't bullet proof on smaller plot points and timelines (see the Baldur's Gate trilogy) it could very well be that he is Fiona's son, but I'm sure it's being kept deliberately vague for a reason. As for me, I am undecided. He might be...or he might be the son of a starstruck chamber maid. Perhaps we'll find out in a sequel.

[Thor Rand Al]

CalJones wrote...

I have been in two minds as to whether Alistair is Fiona's child.

The case for: The fact Duncan takes an interest in him and recruits him into the Wardens is a pretty big giveaway. Also, the fact that he also keeps Alistair out of the fighting where possible. This is consistant with the promise he made at the end of the Calling.

The case against: Alistair seems to be too old to be Fiona's child, who would be 18-19 during the events of Origins. I've always estimated him to be around 24, going by facial lines and general demeanour. That doesn't mean I'm right, however.
The other factor is that, if you ask Loghain why he (Maric) didn't acknowledge Alistair, he says "he nearly did" but it would have ruined Rowan, who would have been reduced to the role of a concubine in the eyes of the other nations. Fiona's child was not conceived until two years after Rowan's death, so Loghain's comment makes little sense unless Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born - which means he is not Fiona's child.
A few people have said Maric doesn't seem like one to sleep around, but we know little of the events between Stolen Throne and The Calling. Whilst he does grieve for Rowan, that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't cheat on her. He did allow himself to be seduced by Katriel when he was betrothed to Rowan, after all.

Given that Bioware aren't bullet proof on smaller plot points and timelines (see the Baldur's Gate trilogy) it could very well be that he is Fiona's son, but I'm sure it's being kept deliberately vague for a reason. As for me, I am undecided. He might be...or he might be the son of a starstruck chamber maid. Perhaps we'll find out in a sequel.

See I'm not sure if I really want that to happen only because of how that would affect Alistair if his mother did show up and all this time he's been thinking she was dead.  Can you imagine what would happen to him after everything he's been through.  The way he was raised, he loses Duncan, he's forced to become king, even if he's hardened he's still forced.  By hardening him he's finally getting a grip on his life.  He accepts this is what's to become of him.  He finally moves on, I'd just be afraid of what finding out the truth about his mom might do to him.

[Raiil]

 I think it's been mentioned that Alistair is around 19-21 during the game play. That fits him in better as being Fiona's son. The Dragon Age starts, 9:00, with Maric ascending the throne. Rowan dies around 9:08. The Grey Wardens return to speak to Maric around 9:10. The game begins in 9:30, so there's a twenty year gap between Maric and Fiona meeting, and when the Warden meets Alistair, making him the right age. 
Remember that in-game, characters are telling you the truth as they know it- and that they are more than capable of lying. IIRC Alistair says his father died before his mother did, before the truth is revealed. Maric died 9:25, so either he's lying through his teeth, or he's the studliest pre-schooler to ever walk the earth. Loghain tells you what he knows. He and Maric had drifted apart. He may not have said anything until after the fact, or Loghain may actually know and, for whatever reason, chooses not to say anything about Alistair's parentage. (Probably to prevent more ascencion problems for him, particularly if he's going to marry his daughter.)

[CalJones]

See, that's something else that's inconsistent. In the book, Maric very pointedly does not tell Loghain about Fiona's baby (largely because of the whole Katriel business - Loghain would take a very dim view of Maric banging another Orlesian elf). But Loghain does know about Alistair, as does Cailan.

If Alistair is Fiona's then I can only assume that Loghain found out eventually but was told it was a servant's child.

[Raiil]

I think that's a good explanation. I mean, Maric needs to keep Loghain close, but I imagine he'd take a dim view of his best friend- who married Loghain's great love- prancing off into the deep roads and banging yet another Orlesian- and a mage elf this time. 'I slept with the chambermaid' sounds much more of a kingly thing to do, yes? So Loghain only has a general idea of who Alistair is- he may not even know his real age. The only person I can see knowing it is Eamon, and that's assuming Alistair was spirited away very soon after Fiona brought him. If Maric kept him for any length of time, they could lob on six months depending on how far Alistair was. :/

[Suron]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Well, its never been confirmed that Alistair is the baby in The Calling. In my opinion though, the writers are being purposedly vague so they can change their minds later and in all intents and purposes... Alistair is.

this is true..they are purposely vague.

however..EVERY sign points to it otherwise...

and quite frankly if this baby by Fiona/Maric is NOT Alistair then Gaider needs to take a ****ing writing class as it's totally idiotic.

in both books...ESPECIALLY The Calling...Maric just doesn't come across as the type to go boning any chick that smiles at him....if the child isn't Alistair then it totally cheapens not only the character of Maric but the ENTIRE story of The Calling and Fiona..AND Alistair himself..

if Fiona/Maric's baby is NOT Alistair, Gaider needs to step away from writing....talk about taking a **** on your own characters/world/lore...and I thought Blizzard was bad.

[Suron]

sylvanaerie wrote...

but...the book ends with Duncan taking the baby right? and promising to look after it...nothing concrete (IE in writing) as to the fate of the child?

but like I said if it's NOT Alistair it's terrible writing on Gaiders part.

EVERYTHING points to it...and rightfully so...it'll be easier and more believable to explain away Goldanna and who Alistair THOUGHT was his mother then making up some BS story that Maric, in all his grief over Rowan/Katriel/Fiona, decided to bone another ****ing chick at random.

I mean c'mon....Duncan promises to watch over the baby...Duncan "saves" Alistair from Chantry life...Duncan "protects" Alistair by keeping him OUT of the fightings BECAUSE he's Maric's son (Alistair himself says this when he tells you finally who his father is)

So with The Calling...how Maric's character is portrayed, plus all the events tied together..if Fiona isn't Alistair's mother.....go watch Super Mario Brothers the Movie...the writing is on par.

[Serissia]

CalJones wrote...
The case against: Alistair seems to be too old to be Fiona's child, who would be 18-19 during the events of Origins. I've always estimated him to be around 24, going by facial lines and general demeanour. That doesn't mean I'm right, however.
The other factor is that, if you ask Loghain why he (Maric) didn't acknowledge Alistair, he says "he nearly did" but it would have ruined Rowan, who would have been reduced to the role of a concubine in the eyes of the other nations. Fiona's child was not conceived until two years after Rowan's death, so Loghain's comment makes little sense unless Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born - which means he is not Fiona's child.
A few people have said Maric doesn't seem like one to sleep around, but we know little of the events between Stolen Throne and The Calling. Whilst he does grieve for Rowan, that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't cheat on her. He did allow himself to be seduced by Katriel when he was betrothed to Rowan, after all.

Given that Bioware aren't bullet proof on smaller plot points and timelines (see the Baldur's Gate trilogy) it could very well be that he is Fiona's son, but I'm sure it's being kept deliberately vague for a reason. As for me, I am undecided. He might be...or he might be the son of a starstruck chamber maid. Perhaps we'll find out in a sequel.

I honestly can't see this being the case unless the writers decide to just drastically alter Maric's personality.  Maric knew what Rowan sacrificed to fulfill her duty as Queen.  Maric knew that she had fallen in love with Loghain and Loghain with her.  Maric himself fall in love with Rowan during their marriage.  He was devestated when Rowan died; he tells Fiona that he had accompanied the Wardens into the Deep Roads because he was hoping to die. 

Maric was seduced and fall in love with Katriel because he was never in love with Rowan.  He cared for her, she was his best friend before Loghain but he didn't love her.  He assumed that she felt the same way since they used to joke when they were children about how asinine their arranged marriage was.  It was only after Maric stopped and thought about it that he realized that Rowan had changed how she felt about him.  That's when he knew he had hurt Rowan.  That's why it tore Maric up trying to figure out a way to tell Rowan about Katriel. 

Maric was very dedicated to the women in his life.  He even wanted to make Katriel his queen (though Loghain and probably Maric too, knew that this was an impossibility).  When he ran Katriel through it killed a part of him.  It "hardened" him and he fully embraced his duty as King.  When the dust settled it was only Rowan that kept Maric together and like his duty as King he embraced their marriage and loved her.  When she died he was left shattered with nothing, an empty shell.  Does this really sound like someone that would a fling with a servent? 

Alistair is suppose to be 21 during Origins which would fit into the time frame of him being Fiona's child.  Also remember that Cailan was actually 5 during The Calling not 9. 

[Serissia]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Well, he didn't exactly get the life his mother wanted for him.  I think she would rather he be a good king who is happy than a miserable templar or just another Grey Warden.  He is very much his father's son, after all.  If she knew that, I don't think she'd be too upset.

It all depends on the ending the PC gives him.  I think in games where Alistair and the PC break up after the Landsmeet that Alistair would end up being just as empty and miserable as Maric did.  If the PC marries him or even stays on as a mistress I think being King would be tolerable for Alistair. 

I see so much of Maric in Alistair, more so than in Cailan. 

[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Well, he didn't exactly get the life his mother wanted for him.  I think she would rather he be a good king who is happy than a miserable templar or just another Grey Warden.  He is very much his father's son, after all.  If she knew that, I don't think she'd be too upset.

It all depends on the ending the PC gives him.  I think in games where Alistair and the PC break up after the Landsmeet that Alistair would end up being just as empty and miserable as Maric did.  If the PC marries him or even stays on as a mistress I think being King would be tolerable for Alistair. 

I see so much of Maric in Alistair, more so than in Cailan. 

Mmmm, I was referring to a specific ending, yes.  I think Fiona would be very upset at an unhardened Alistair who broke up with his love.  Or with him being drunk or dead.  All other endings, though, wouldn't be that terrible.  Even if the other Warden was just his buddy, that's not as wrenching as giving up the woman you love.

And as I've said before, and I'll say again, Alistair is Maric's true son.  Theirin blood breeds true. 

[CalJones]

Well, I don't know about that - Anora says that Cailan had his women. (And that despite the fact Wynne protests that the love between Cailan and Anora was plain for everyone to see, should you take her and Loghain to Ostagar).

I agree that it seems unlikely that Maric would cheat on Rowan but, given how Cailan is, it's not an impossibility.

[Patriciachr34]

I would like to input that it may not be Maric's character to "boink" serving girls, but that does not mean that he did not find comfort in the arms of a serving girl at one point in his life. The circumstances of the encounter are not discussed simply because no one witnessed them. He might have been in a place in his life where he needed some emotional comfort and a compassionate and sympathetic serving girl gave him this comfort. One thing could have lead to another and we have Alistair.

[nos_astra]

Patriciachr34 wrote...
I would like to input that it may not be Maric's character to "boink" serving girls, but that does not mean that he did not find comfort in the arms of a serving girl at one point in his life.

That would have to be between Rowan's death in 9:08 and Fiona in 9:10. So why is a random servant's son with Duncan? And where is the son he should have an eye on? Who would be left to find him now? Maric is dead, Duncan is dead. Who else knows about him? Who could prove his parentage? Nobody.

And Maric seems to be genuinely happy about his child, not like someone who previously sired a bastard and gave him to Eamon.

Modifié par klarabella, 19 avril 2010 - 04:58 .