93 réponses à ce sujet

[Patriciachr34]

klarabella wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...
I would like to input that it may not be Maric's character to "boink" serving girls, but that does not mean that he did not find comfort in the arms of a serving girl at one point in his life.

That would have to be between Rowan's death in 9:08 and Fiona in 9:10. So why is a random servant's son with Duncan? And where is the son he should have an eye on? Who would be left to find him now? Maric is dead, Duncan is dead. Who else knows about him? Who could prove his parentage? Nobody.

And Maric seems to be genuinely happy about his child, not like someone who previously sired a bastard and gave him to Eamon.

Alistair is not a random servant's son.  He is the son of King Maric.  If Maric sired a child, he would see it as his duty to make sure the child was cared for.  Honestly I'm not saying that Alistair is not Fiona's child.  However, it is just as possible that Alistair is simply the result of a tryst between Maric and a servant girl.  I also find it strange that Eamon, knowing that Alistair was Maric's son sent Alistair off to the chantry without a second thought.  If Eamon was truly intent on keeping a "backup" of the Therin line, wouldn't it have been better to see him squired to a minor Bannorn somewhere?  It would have removed Alistair from his houselhold for Isolde's sake and given Alistair some options for the future.  Sending him to the chantry truly seemed like a one way ticket to oblivion.

[Addai]

Patriciachr34 wrote...
 If Eamon was truly intent on keeping a "backup" of the Therin line, wouldn't it have been better to see him squired to a minor Bannorn somewhere? 

Not if your goal was to prevent Alistair from challenging Cailan's rule at some future point.  What better way to see that he never did so than to put him into a repressive, groupthink-oriented system with a lyrium habit.

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

Well, I don't know about that - Anora says that Cailan had his women.

...for which we only have Anora's word, while she is trying to gain your sympathy.

[Patriciachr34]

I think the whole lyrium addiction thing was a chantry secret. We only know about it because Alistair told us about it. Eamon would not be privy to this information. However, I do see your point about the final resolution to a threat from the throne. I'm just not an Eamon fan. I see his whole "maintain the Therin line" as a thinly veiled attempt to rule Ferelden himself. And, although Anora is conniving, she is well suited to rule a country in crisis.

[Serissia]

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Alistair is not a random servant's son.  He is the son of King Maric.  If Maric sired a child, he would see it as his duty to make sure the child was cared for.  Honestly I'm not saying that Alistair is not Fiona's child.  However, it is just as possible that Alistair is simply the result of a tryst between Maric and a servant girl.  I also find it strange that Eamon, knowing that Alistair was Maric's son sent Alistair off to the chantry without a second thought.  If Eamon was truly intent on keeping a "backup" of the Therin line, wouldn't it have been better to see him squired to a minor Bannorn somewhere?  It would have removed Alistair from his houselhold for Isolde's sake and given Alistair some options for the future.  Sending him to the chantry truly seemed like a one way ticket to oblivion.

In the Chanty it would be assured that Alistair recieved a proper education.  As Alistair says to Morrigan "They don't make stupid Templars.",  Eamon wouldn't of been able to assure he would get a proper education as a Bann's squire.  I highly doubt it was simply coincidence that Duncan recruited Alistair shortly before he would of taken his Templar vows.

Maric was a good and fair man but he wasn't particularly inventive.  All of the strategies during the rebellion came from either Arl Rendon Guerrin, Loghain, Rowan or Katriel.  It doesn't take a leap of faith to assume that Maric gave the child to Eamon because he trusted the Guerrin family. 

Is it possible that Alistair isn't Fiona's child?  Sure, anything is possible; it's their game after all.  If they want to throw contingency out the window at any point they most certainly can.  Hell, they did it somewhat in Awakening.

Modifié par Serissia, 19 avril 2010 - 06:08 .

[Serissia]

Patriciachr34 wrote...
I think the whole lyrium addiction thing was a chantry secret. We only know about it because Alistair told us about it. Eamon would not be privy to this information. However, I do see your point about the final resolution to a threat from the throne. I'm just not an Eamon fan. I see his whole "maintain the Therin line" as a thinly veiled attempt to rule Ferelden himself. And, although Anora is conniving, she is well suited to rule a country in crisis.

I'm not an Eamon fan either.  I feel that Eamon swooped in after Rendon and Rowan's deaths and took the glory of the family's name for himself without actually getting his own hands dirty. 

Eamon maybe be an ardent royalist to the Therin line but he is also looking after himself.  Eamon would be a fool to not act aganist Loghain considering that Loghain already had him poisoned once.  Eamon's line about having to side with Loghain for the good of the country if Alistair refused to step forward as an heir is clearly an attempt to manipulate Alistair by using his hatred of Loghain against him. 

[Patriciachr34]

Serissia wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...
I think the whole lyrium addiction thing was a chantry secret. We only know about it because Alistair told us about it. Eamon would not be privy to this information. However, I do see your point about the final resolution to a threat from the throne. I'm just not an Eamon fan. I see his whole "maintain the Therin line" as a thinly veiled attempt to rule Ferelden himself. And, although Anora is conniving, she is well suited to rule a country in crisis.

I'm not an Eamon fan either.  I feel that Eamon swooped in after Rendon and Rowan's deaths and took the glory of the family's name for himself without actually getting his own hands dirty. 

Eamon maybe be an ardent royalist to the Therin line but he is also looking after himself.  Eamon would be a fool to not act aganist Loghain considering that Loghain already had him poisoned once.  Eamon's line about having to side with Loghain for the good of the country if Alistair refused to step forward as an heir is clearly an attempt to manipulate Alistair by using his hatred of Loghain against him. 

It just goes to prove, "Swooping is bad." 

[CultKiller]

In the book, is Cailan aware he has a half brother? In the game, it is Cailan who orders Alistair and the Warden to go to the tower of Ishal. I always assumed this was because he knew Alistair is his half brother and wanted to keep him alive in case Cailan should die, in order to keep the Therein bloodline on the throne.

[LadyDamodred]

Anora will tell you that Cailan knew of Alistair and kind of kept tabs on him. It is my personal opinion that Cailan sent Alistair with your PC to the tower to keep him, and the Theirin bloodline, safe.

[sleepingbelow]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Anora will tell you that Cailan knew of Alistair and kind of kept tabs on him. It is my personal opinion that Cailan sent Alistair with your PC to the tower to keep him, and the Theirin bloodline, safe.

It is something I always really enjoyed speculating on, that is, how Cailan felt about Alistair.  Alistair just said regarding their one meeting that Cailan was like, "Ooh, swords!"  But what if he excused himself because, hey, what do you say in that situation?  Nice to meet you, bro, but for political reasons I can't be seen talking to you in public?  Cailan's brain might have just short circuited and popped out a bunch of non sequiturs.

"Nice weather we're having, did you bring a coat?  How 'bout that local sports team?  I'm quite fond of a well-crafted sword.  I like turtles."

What if afterwards he was kicking himself?  What if the crown prince couldn't get over the embarrassment of, "Ooh, swords!"

[LadyDamodred]

sleepingbelow wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Anora will tell you that Cailan knew of Alistair and kind of kept tabs on him. It is my personal opinion that Cailan sent Alistair with your PC to the tower to keep him, and the Theirin bloodline, safe.

It is something I always really enjoyed speculating on, that is, how Cailan felt about Alistair.  Alistair just said regarding their one meeting that Cailan was like, "Ooh, swords!"  But what if he excused himself because, hey, what do you say in that situation?  Nice to meet you, bro, but for political reasons I can't be seen talking to you in public?  Cailan's brain might have just short circuited and popped out a bunch of non sequiturs.

"Nice weather we're having, did you bring a coat?  How 'bout that local sports team?  I'm quite fond of a well-crafted sword.  I like turtles."

What if afterwards he was kicking himself?  What if the crown prince couldn't get over the embarrassment of, "Ooh, swords!"

I think they were both kids when they met.  From what I gathered, it wasn't a real meeting, just Cailan with his dad.  Alistair said hello, and Cailan, like any flighty prince, runs off to check out the sharp pointy things.  XD

[sleepingbelow]

Probably. I just like imagining awkwardness and misunderstood intentions. Makes for great theatre.

[Serissia]

CultKiller wrote...

In the book, is Cailan aware he has a half brother? In the game, it is Cailan who orders Alistair and the Warden to go to the tower of Ishal. I always assumed this was because he knew Alistair is his half brother and wanted to keep him alive in case Cailan should die, in order to keep the Therein bloodline on the throne.

Cailan isn't aware he has a half brother in The Calling.  Cailan is only 5 years old during The Calling.  If Alistair is Fiona's son than a some point the cat got let out of the bag and the secret was loose.  It could of been Eamon himself that let it slip; who knows?  If Alistair is really the son of an unnamed servant girl than it's possible that he admitted the mistake to Loghain and thus it became common knowledge around Court.  It's unknown since it hasn't been confirmed one way or the other about Alistair's parentage. 

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Wait if Maric was lost at sea does that mean that he could still be alive!? Maybe with fiona? Maybe he just left and became a grey warden to be with fiona. Ok im totally getting this book!

[sleepingbelow]

Er, tiny spoiler from real early in the book, part of Flemeth's prophecy was that Maric wouldn't live to see the next Blight. So without some jiggering of some destiny semantics, he's likely dead, even if not by Poseidon's foul disposition.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 19 avril 2010 - 07:36 .

[Serissia]

Yeah, Maric was lost at sea. I suppose that could mean that he's still alive but probably not.

Both The Calling and The Stolen Throne are worth reading. The books give a fair amount of insight into the game. Honestly, I wouldn't even suggest playing Awakening w/o having read The Calling.

Modifié par Serissia, 19 avril 2010 - 07:39 .

[MelRedux]

I'm going back in this thread a bit... But is it ever said in the game that Alistair's mother died in childbirth?  I remember him saying she died when he was "very young",  but I don't remember anyone saying that it was in childbirth.
Also, Loghain definitely says that he wouldn't acknowledge Alistair, becuase it would ruin Rowan.  Doesn't that sound like Alistair was born when Rowan was still alive?
Maybe Fiona and Maric's kid is still out there....sequel anyone?

[LadyDamodred]

Mel_Redux wrote...

I'm going back in this thread a bit... But is it ever said in the game that Alistair's mother died in childbirth?  I remember him saying she died when he was "very young",  but I don't remember anyone saying that it was in childbirth.
Also, Loghain definitely says that he wouldn't acknowledge Alistair, becuase it would ruin Rowan.  Doesn't that sound like Alistair was born when Rowan was still alive?
Maybe Fiona and Maric's kid is still out there....sequel anyone?

Alistair says when he was very young, and Goldana says Alistair killed her.  I take that to mean she either died in childbirth or from complications arising from his birth.

[MelRedux]

Or maybe he was a really bad kid, and drove her to drink herself to death? 

Ok, my bad, I don't remember Goldanna saying that.  Probably becuase I tune out the b**** when she starts talking.

[ashez2ashes]

CalJones wrote...

Well, I don't know about that - Anora says that Cailan had his women. (And that despite the fact Wynne protests that the love between Cailan and Anora was plain for everyone to see, should you take her and Loghain to Ostagar).
I agree that it seems unlikely that Maric would cheat on Rowan but, given how Cailan is, it's not an impossibility.

Does anyone else Wynne was full of crap? ESPECIALLY concerning Cailan.  When she said in the Ostagar DLC about believing Cailan would bravely lead them to victory I about choked.  I think she had a crush or something.

I wonder if Alistair's mother's amulet, is really Fiona's amulet? Or did Eamon just come up with some random amulet and make up a story about it?

[Serissia]

ashez2ashes wrote...
Does anyone else Wynne was full of crap? ESPECIALLY concerning Cailan.  When she said in the Ostagar DLC about believing Cailan would bravely lead them to victory I about choked.  I think she had a crush or something.

I wonder if Alistair's mother's amulet, is really Fiona's amulet? Or did Eamon just come up with some random amulet and make up a story about it?

Wynne is a Loyalist and an ardent supporter of the Theirin line. 

Cailan is an oddity.  He had enough presence of mind to send Alistair (and the PC) to the Tower of Ishal thus assuring that the sole heir was kept out of the seige.  Yet his resentment towards Eamon's meddling in his personal affairs clouded his judgement enough to refused Eamon's troops.  Instead of being invested in the possible strategies for the up coming battle he was off drinking with the glorious Wardens.

Personally I believe the amulet is just another prop in the lies Eamon has propagated about Alistair's true heritage. 

As for the comment Loghain makes... Loghain was head over heals in love with Rowan, he could of well felt that way even after her death.  If it got out that Maric was dallying with elves the nobility might question if this was going on during their marriage.

[LadyDamodred]

I think Loghain's comment about it ruining Rowan is part of the story to keep Alistair's birth a secret. I think Loghain knew full well who Alistair's mother was, but he would have stuck to the story to protect Maric and then Maric's memory. When you live with a lie for 21 years, it sort of becomes truth, Loghain himself might think it would have ruined Rowan's memory; Maric having another son with an elf.

[Serissia]

Plus it's not like Loghain was exactly became the picture of stability after Maric disappeared. I like your explanation LD.

[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

Plus it's not like Loghain was exactly became the picture of stability after Maric disappeared. I like your explanation LD.

What can I say?  I like trying to get into characters' heads.

[Sandtigress]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I think Loghain's comment about it ruining Rowan is part of the story to keep Alistair's birth a secret. I think Loghain knew full well who Alistair's mother was, but he would have stuck to the story to protect Maric and then Maric's memory. When you live with a lie for 21 years, it sort of becomes truth, Loghain himself might think it would have ruined Rowan's memory; Maric having another son with an elf.

Actually, I'm of the opinion that Loghain has no idea who Alistair's real mother is, if it is indeed Fiona.  He was either lied to, or came up with the lie himself, and Maric let it slide.  The main reason for that is that Loghain would NEVER let a half-Orlesian sit on the throne, even if he was Maric's son, and that's exactly what Alistair is, if Fiona is his mother.  He's half-Orlesian, elf-blooded, and the son of  Grey Warden, and at least two of those things are apparently anathema to Loghain (though Orlesians and Wardens are equated in his mind for the most part).

Since Loghain wasn't there when Fiona came, I'm of the opinion that Maric either told him flat out or let him believe that this bastard son was conceived while Rowan was alive - its a logical reason to hide his presence from Loghain in the first place, considering their relationship, and would conceal the real identity of the child's mother, because Loghain would never, ever stand for it.