146 réponses à ce sujet

[keesio74]

Well after playing twice as a city elf, I played a new origin today - Human Noble. I was kinda surprised and disappointed that Duncan offered to lead me to safety only if I joined the wardens. WTF? If I said no, he'd just leave me to die? I always liked Duncan when I was a city elf 'cause he saved my life by letting me join the wardens. But after this... I dunno. That was pretty low... basically putting the pressure on my dying father to let me join the wardens or else. Not cool.

[sylvanaerie]

saying no wasn't an option. Bryce probably saw also that the only way to get you out was to force youi to go with Duncan. I remember reading somewhere on the boards Duncan lost his own family in a similar way. That look of anguish on his face is real.

I always play my HN as refusing till Bryce pulls the "Couslands always do their duty" card. Then he/she will relent and go with Duncan. Though once I had one who WANTED to be a GW and another who had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of there. Its all in how you wanna RP it and its written so well its wide open to interpretation

(and my conscripted cousland girl would agree with your assessment, she hated Duncan).

[LadyDamodred]

He needed a recruit. :/ If you refuse, he will conscript you. Much like every origin, he's not going to let you die, but he would prefer you come willingly and with your father's blessing, grudging or not.

Edit:  My canon playthorugh HNF wanted to be a Warden.  She realized what was happening and accepted Duncan's offer without her dad having to order/beg her.  She wouldn't add that burden to her parents as they were dying.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 19 avril 2010 - 03:29 .

[Urshakk]

keesio74 wrote...

Well after playing twice as a city elf, I played a new origin today - Human Noble. I was kinda surprised and disappointed that Duncan offered to lead me to safety only if I joined the wardens. WTF? If I said no, he'd just leave me to die? I always liked Duncan when I was a city elf 'cause he saved my life by letting me join the wardens. But after this... I dunno. That was pretty low... basically putting the pressure on my dying father to let me join the wardens or else. Not cool.

Then it would be game over. You stay you die, you go you live, regardless of what Duncan has to say about it.

[keesio74]

sylvanaerie wrote...

saying no wasn't an option. Bryce probably saw also that the only way to get you out was to force youi to go with Duncan.

Why can't Duncan just be a good guy and just offer to lead you to safety without any demands? That is my issue. It's like Duncan will refuse to take me to safety if Bryce and I refuses. Bryce doesn't know about the ritual and the cost on your life. 

In the city elf origin, Duncan saves your ass and I was very grateful. In this case I'm kinda like "ok, so that is how it is huh?"

[keesio74]

Urshakk wrote...

keesio74 wrote...

Well after playing twice as a city elf, I played a new origin today - Human Noble. I was kinda surprised and disappointed that Duncan offered to lead me to safety only if I joined the wardens. WTF? If I said no, he'd just leave me to die? I always liked Duncan when I was a city elf 'cause he saved my life by letting me join the wardens. But after this... I dunno. That was pretty low... basically putting the pressure on my dying father to let me join the wardens or else. Not cool.

Then it would be game over. You stay you die, you go you live, regardless of what Duncan has to say about it.

I know. I am just talking from a storyline standpoint. In this origin, Duncan is a bit of an ass.

[sylvanaerie]

Because of the blight he CAN"T. He explains all this to your father. He came to Highever looking for a recruit. The Blight MUST be stopped. That is ALL that matters to him. Yes, he probably would have taken you anyway if your father had refused and conscripted you out of Bryce's sight. But getting Bryce's permission was important to Duncan I think. He didn't want to go the conscription route.

[Urshakk]

keesio74 wrote...
Why can't Duncan just be a good guy and just offer to lead you to safety without any demands? That is my issue. It's like Duncan will refuse to take me to safety if Bryce and I refuses.

He doesn't demand you go with him, he asks permission from your father to let him recruit you (and considering the circumstances I would say he was being as polite as possible) and he agrees. He even demonstrates this right at the beginning of the origin, he didn't force the issue. If YOU  say no, I don't want to go, THEN  he will start demanding you go with him and invoke the Right of Conscription.

Modifié par Urshakk, 19 avril 2010 - 03:46 .

[krasnoarmeets]

Because that's the way Wardens are. What part of 'by any means possible' didn't you understand? That's why they have the power of conscription. That's why they will recruit so-called maleficar into their ranks - anyone who they believe will be able to get the job done.
He needs a Warden recruit and while he would prefer a willing recruit he will resort to conscription if necessary.
In Awakenings, for the very same reason, you can conscript potential companions into the Wardens.
I suspect that's one reason why they're called Grey Wardens - the grey area between black and white, the absolutes. Evil vs Good.
Wardens will do ANYTHING they believe necessary to defeat a Blight. Things that others would consider questionable. Take Avernus' and Sophia's actions in Warden's Keep for instance.

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 19 avril 2010 - 03:47 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Oh, my Cousland was pissed as hell at him. She wanted to stay and die by her parents. But oh, mighty Duncan decided she was too useful to do that. Boom! Conscripted.

Shame there isn't "I hate you Duncan!" dialogue.

[keesio74]

Urshakk wrote...


He doesn't demand you go with him, he asks permission from your father to let him recruit you (and considering the circumstances I would say he was being as polite as possible). He even demonstrates this right at the beginning of the origin, he didn't force the issue. IF you say no, I don't want to go, THEN he will start demanding you go with him and invoke the Right of Conscription.

He knows my old man did not want be to be a warden and promised not to go against his wishes. But when he had a chance to get my dying father to change his mind by using the current circumstances to basically threaten him (I'll save him if you let me recruit him)... that rubbed me wrong. Yeah, Duncan didn't have to go back on his word (promising not to invoke the right of conscription against my dad's wishes) because he played hardball.

[sylvanaerie]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Because that's the way Wardens are. What part of 'by any means possible' didn't you understand? That's why they have the power of conscription. That's why they will recruit so-called maleficar into their ranks - anyone who they believe will be able to get the job done.
He needs a Warden recruit and while he would prefer a willing recruit he will resort to conscription if necessary.
In Awakenings, for the very same reason, you can conscript potential companions into the Wardens.
I suspect that's one reason why they're called Grey Wardens - the grey area between black and white, the absolutes. Evil vs Good.
Wardens will do ANYTHING they believe necessary to defeat a Blight. Things that others would consider questionable. Take Avernus' and Sophia's actions in Warden's Keep for instance.

Well technically those two were not doing a warden's duty, they were meddling in politics...but the idea is the same. Anything to win.

[keesio74]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

He needs a Warden recruit and while he would prefer a willing recruit he will resort to conscription if necessary.

Not if he's a man of his word. He promised Bryce he would not go against his wishes that I NOT be conscripted. To be a man of his word, he needed to make Bryce change his mind. And he was able to do so by giving him an ultimatum (I'll take him to safety if you change your mind).

[LadyDamodred]

It's not like your father is not totally against you becoming a Warden. He says it's something he would have to think about. Duncan respects Bryce, but he intends to recruit you regardless of whether or not your father gives permission once your castle is attacked. He gives your father the chance to be a teyrn and noble til the end. Duncan then offers *you* a place in the Grey Wardens and conscripts your ass if *you* refuse.

Edit:  I don't think Duncan would leave you to die, honestly.  It costs him nothing to take you with him.  But it's a way to force you to leave if you don't go willingly.  A Cousland always does their duty, as your father will remind you.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 19 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[Urshakk]

keesio74 wrote...

He knows my old man did not want be to be a warden and promised not to go against his wishes. But when he had a chance to get my dying father to change his mind by using the current circumstances to basically threaten him (I'll save him if you let me recruit him)... that rubbed me wrong. Yeah, Duncan didn't have to go back on his word (promising not to invoke the right of conscription against my dad's wishes) because he played hardball.

He didn't want you to be recruited then because you actually had your castle and other duties. Once that was stripped away there is simply no reason to stay.

[keesio74]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Wardens will do ANYTHING they believe necessary to defeat a Blight. Things that others would consider questionable. Take Avernus' and Sophia's actions in Warden's Keep for instance.

Yeah I get that now. Totally. My views on Duncan have changed. I thought he was a real noble man. But not so much now. So when Alistar starts going on about Duncan, I don't feel like being so nice.

[keesio74]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Edit:  I don't think Duncan would leave you to die, honestly.  It costs him nothing to take you with him.  But it's a way to force you to leave if you don't go willingly.  A Cousland always does their duty, as your father will remind you.

If so, then he basically lied to a dying old friend as a bluff to get what he wants. Another strike on Duncan. He really is a "Grey" Warden.

[sylvanaerie]

Heck if you tell him as a City Elf that you will be okay now and he can jsut go he tells you he was serious about conscripting you that saving your life was just fortunate circumstance. Duncan is a gray Gray Warden in its truest sense. (and I have had several PCs who hated his guts) but none of them took it out on Alistair for it.

[GardenSnake]

keesio74 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

saying no wasn't an option. Bryce probably saw also that the only way to get you out was to force youi to go with Duncan.

Why can't Duncan just be a good guy and just offer to lead you to safety without any demands? That is my issue. It's like Duncan will refuse to take me to safety if Bryce and I refuses. Bryce doesn't know about the ritual and the cost on your life. 

In the city elf origin, Duncan saves your ass and I was very grateful. In this case I'm kinda like "ok, so that is how it is huh?"

Why? Because without the demand, there would be no game....  You people read into these things WAY too much. Plus I mean it's not like the Grey Wardens are your average group of people. Here's a good comparison, it's not like Duncan is saving your life just to conscript to be some lame stormtrooper, he's conscripting you to become a part of the fabled Jedi Order, a highly regarded group that upholds and protects justice throughout Ferelden..... I mean the galaxy. See? He's pretty much offering you a deal too good to be true, you survive and get to join a group of badasses. Plus you can tell that he has good intentions, watch his expresions and his tone.

[LadyDamodred]

The only time I ever had a character get absolutely enraged at Duncan was when Tamlen showed up at camp. I'd like to think my elf lost her mind on Alistair b/c Duncan wasn't there to take the abuse.

[KnightofPhoenix]

keesio74 wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Wardens will do ANYTHING they believe necessary to defeat a Blight. Things that others would consider questionable. Take Avernus' and Sophia's actions in Warden's Keep for instance.

Yeah I get that now. Totally. My views on Duncan have changed. I thought he was a real noble man. But not so much now. So when Alistar starts going on about Duncan, I don't feel like being so nice.

Wardens are never meant to be noble and that's what Alistair never understood.
 
I do not dislike Duncan, but the fact that he has no problem bargaining with a dying father and a suicidal mother about saving their child, who is going to be subjected to a 50% chance of dying from a ritual, or be killed by darkspawn, or be killed killing the archdemon, or dying young in the deeproads, shows us what the Wardens are.
The end justifies any and all means for them.

Seeing that, my PC became a little more interested int the propect of being a Warden.  

[keesio74]

and yeah, again I understand that the game ends right there if he doesn't conscript me. I'm just talking from the interest of a story standpoint. I get into the stories and characters of the game (compliments to BioWare) so just throwing some stuff out there.

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

The only time I ever had a character get absolutely enraged at Duncan was when Tamlen showed up at camp. I'd like to think my elf lost her mind on Alistair b/c Duncan wasn't there to take the abuse.

OMG My Dalish hated Duncan.  Probably more than any other origin her situation was the most desperate (being tainted and dying) but she didn't believe she was.  She had to literally be dragged kicking and screaming (and I imagined she had bit him too for good measure) to Ostagar.  She was NOT a happy camper.  Tried to go AWOL as soon s he left her alone (but its also how I found out about the gate blocking off Ishal and where the exit gate was to the imperial highway.  Also found a chest back there too

[krasnoarmeets]

Yes, but Bryce then asked for him to save his family - Wardens, however, are neutral and are not supposed to dabble in politics, get involved in affairs that do not relating to the darkspawn. He did not push the issue at the beginning because it's generally not advisable to conscript from certain quarters given it can cause political problems for the wardens. However, once it's abundantly clear that it won't he makes the choice to push the issue because he needs more wardens and considers Bryce's child worthy for that role. It's not about being a 'good guy' it's about doing what needs to be done.

[GreatSword127]

I think the only one that hated Duncan in my playthroughs was...no one.



Duncan is noble in his own way. Even when he killed Sir Jory I see a look of anguish. The man has a heart. He just realizes, You can't please everybody when you are the leader!