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[OrlesianWardenCommander]

My first play through was a female cousland i accepted his offer although i tried to take my mom with me but soon realized that wasn't going to happen. All my charaters usually like duncan especially my Amells and Couslands. Never seen him as being an ass hes like your jedi master and you the student i just wish you could of traveled a bit with duncan as he mentored you.

[Aisynia]

I hate Duncan.

[Thor Rand Al]

I use to think the same thing as the OP but then things changed once I started thinking about it. And after reading these posts I can't help but think about the conversation's you have with Duncan at Cousland Castle. This one's when he first gets there and your introduced to him.
This is after Bryce Cousland says the reason why Duncan is there is because Duncan has his eye on Ser Gilmore:
Duncan: If I may be so bold, I would suggest that your daughter is also an excellent candidate.

Bryce: Honor though that might be, this is my daughter we're talking about.

PC: I think I rather like the idea, Father.

Bryce: I've not so many children that I'll gladly see them all off to battle. Unless you intend to invoke the Right of Consription...?

Duncan: Have no fear. While we need as many good recruits as we can find, I've no intention of forcing the issue.

This is if you talk to Duncan right after Bryce gives you the find your brother quest.
PC: Would you really recruit me into the Grey Wardens?

Duncan: Of course. You are young, skilled, and eager for battle, or so I'm told.

Duncan: The Grey Warden's do not recruit simply anybody, and I intend no flattery when I say you show promise.

Duncan: The old treaties allow me to conscript you even against your father's wishes, but I will not do so. Our order is too small to risk animosity with Ferelden's nobility.

Bryce: And glad I am to hear it.

Duncan: It's tempting, your Lordship. But I am content to see what other candidates your castle offers.

And this conversation takes place when you find your father in the larder during the attack when your father asks Duncan to get you and your mom to safety.
Duncan: I came to your castle seeking a recruit. The darkspawn threat demands that I leave with one.

Bryce: I... I understand.

PC: What about Ser Gilmore?

Duncan: Truthfully, you were always my first choice.

Before this happened yes my PC loved the idea of maybe becoming a Warden but after the attack all that was on my mind was the safety of my family and then revenge
Yes I refused to, I never go willingly the first time, but then daddy has to use that dang "A Cousland always does their duty" line and I realize I've got no choice because he's right.
Duncan didn't use the situation to get what he wanted, he wasn't being sneaky and he wasn't trying to bully your father either but he also saw that it would be the only way to save your life, especially after mom said she was staying too. And that's why your father agreed to it, your father knows your not going to leave willingly.
Duncan's been around, he's seen a lot of tragedy, even in his own life. He know's you would of sacrificed your life to try and protect your family but he also knows that you'd die doing it so he gives you a way to not only guarantee that you live but also that you live to be able to maybe see justice done.


Ok now that I've taken up a whole page maybe I should quit lmao. Sorry about my wall of text and if I bored anyone lol

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 19 avril 2010 - 08:10 .

[Urshakk]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...
Never seen him as being an ass hes like your jedi master and you the student

Except your Jedi Master died before he could really teach you the important things about being a Grey Warden.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
*all that*

No sane person would leave their family behind to die of course, but unless you get away there isn't going to be any retribution on Howe.

If anything, I would say your own parents are more demanding that you go rather then Duncan. They want you to live to carry on the Cousland line and get revenge, Duncan just wants you as a recruit.

Modifié par Urshakk, 19 avril 2010 - 08:53 .

[Suzene]

LadyDamodred wrote...

The only time I ever had a character get absolutely enraged at Duncan was when Tamlen showed up at camp. I'd like to think my elf lost her mind on Alistair b/c Duncan wasn't there to take the abuse.

Yeah, my Dalish loathed Duncan after that nasty discovery too -- in that moment, the man became just one more lying shem. If Duncan's corpse had been around in 'Return to Ostagar', that character would have scattered his bones for the ravens, and to Fen'Harel's gullet with whoever disapproved.

[sylvanaerie]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

My first play through was a female cousland i accepted his offer although i tried to take my mom with me but soon realized that wasn't going to happen. All my charaters usually like duncan especially my Amells and Couslands. Never seen him as being an ass hes like your jedi master and you the student i just wish you could of traveled a bit with duncan as he mentored you.

Thats what my fanfic is sort of about, the time spent getting from Highever to Ostagar.  I always felt that just screamed for a good story to fill it in.

[Taritu]

My human nobles do not like Duncan. At all. He comes across by far and away worst in that origin.

[Xandurpein]

My human noble starts out rather angry at Duncan, but by the time of the Deep roads and what he sees there, he's ready to pull a Duncan on Loghain or anybody else who seems to fit the bill.

[Nivilant]

sylvanaerie wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

The only time I ever had a character get absolutely enraged at Duncan was when Tamlen showed up at camp. I'd like to think my elf lost her mind on Alistair b/c Duncan wasn't there to take the abuse.

OMG My Dalish hated Duncan.  Probably more than any other origin her situation was the most desperate (being tainted and dying) but she didn't believe she was.  She had to literally be dragged kicking and screaming (and I imagined she had bit him too for good measure) to Ostagar.  She was NOT a happy camper.  Tried to go AWOL as soon s he left her alone (but its also how I found out about the gate blocking off Ishal and where the exit gate was to the imperial highway.  Also found a chest back there too

^ This.

In fact, my female Dalish was angry at everyone involved. The men for telling them about the cave, Duncan for not letting her properly search, the clan as a whole for moving on. It was interesting to turn the flirty happy elf girl into the moody, sour Morrigan-esque character she became in the main game. The camp incident was the icing on the cake for her, especially since all the companions wade on in to pummel the poor guy and then just wander away like her best friend (and love interest since I took the hints) didn't just get mangled!  

But as for my Noble, she was already aware that they were going to die, and that if she did too she'd never get back at Howe. She's generally one of my more pragmatic characters, though I imagine she shed a tear or two during the Urn of Sacred Ashes questline.

On the whole, I don't mind Duncan. I think he's probably seen enough of it to know a lost cause, and perhaps it was his way of saving at least one person without having to let it get to him.

[rak72]

Man, I never played an Elf - what happens at camp!! I can't find it in the Wikki

[Sarah1281]

rak72 wrote...

Man, I never played an Elf - what happens at camp!! I can't find it in the Wikki

Tamlen attacks when the camp is invaded by darkspawn towards the end and even though he gives you a touching speech (and might even confess to having always loved you depending on how you played the Origin) no one cares except Alistair who just offers you a half-hearted 'it really is for the best.'

[rak72]

Sarah1281 wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Man, I never played an Elf - what happens at camp!! I can't find it in the Wikki

Tamlen attacks when the camp is invaded by darkspawn towards the end and even though he gives you a touching speech (and might even confess to having always loved you depending on how you played the Origin) no one cares except Alistair who just offers you a half-hearted 'it really is for the best.'

Did he become a darkspawn?

[Gabey5]

its a game...

[Sarah1281]

Tamlen becomes:
 

[Lady Jess]

I always saw my HNF origin as more respectful. Duncan could just sweep me out of there and recruit me out of my parents sight. But he would rather have their blessing, and be honest about it. It's like he just couldn't bring himself to be dishonest about it, no matter how awkward it would be to say this to your dying father.

[LadyDamodred]

Urshakk wrote...
No sane person would leave their family behind to die of course, but unless you get away there isn't going to be any retribution on Howe.

If anything, I would say your own parents are more demanding that you go rather then Duncan. They want you to live to carry on the Cousland line and get revenge, Duncan just wants you as a recruit.

Are you calling my HNF insane?  She is a Cousland.  She looks at the situation, sees what is going to happen and knows there is nothing she can do to save her parents.  Her mother will not abandon her dying father, and she knows it.  Also, she wanted to be a Grey Warden.  Her path was clear.  Her options are: argue with her parents and refuse to go with Duncan, forgetting everything her parents raised her to be, or accept what she is and what has happened and do what she must.  She chooses the latter.  I think that is quite sane.  She is still angry and devastated, but she knows she doesn't have the luxury of letting it consume her.

[Serissia]

Some of the origins do paint Duncan in a better light than the others.  Regardless, I don't see Duncan as heartless as some.  He explains to Bryce that the Blight demands he leaves with a recruit.  Bryce immediately understands.  It takes the PC a moment to catch on if anything. 

The Couslands always rise to serve their country regardless of personal loss.  The Couslands sided with Sophia Dryden and rose up to fight against the tyrant King Arland; many Couslands died because of that choice.  The Couslands also join the rebillion against Orlais fairly early on.  This pitted them against their previous allies the Howes in the Battle for Harper's Ford.

Historically a Cousland would be willing to help his/her country and if that requires he/she to become a Warden than so be it.  Of course there's always different ways to rp a character and there is no right or wrong. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
She is still angry and devastated, but she knows she doesn't have the luxury of letting it consume her.

And yet she is willing to abandon everyone and leave her nation to its fate if Alsitair decided to make Howe a Warden, no?

[Serissia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And yet she is willing to abandon everyone and leave her nation to its fate if Alsitair decided to make Howe a Warden, no?

I see what you did there sir.

[keesio74]

Lots of interesting discussion. Cool.



Anyway my HNM is a rational thinker and would feel it my duty to warn my brother of the betrayal and seek revenge on Howe, as requested by my parents. I would vow to honor them by chopping off Howe's head. That'd be priority #1, not some darkspawn. So I would be willing to escape with Duncan. What I don't want to do is be sidetracked with all this Warden stuff. So would Duncan allow be to go with him if I didn't join?

[keesio74]

Serissia wrote...

Some of the origins do paint Duncan in a better light than the others.  Regardless, I don't see Duncan as heartless as some.  He explains to Bryce that the Blight demands he leaves with a recruit.  Bryce immediately understands.  It takes the PC a moment to catch on if anything. 

Don't forget that part where Duncan says that if he helps Bryce (by leading me to safety) he must get something in return (my service). This is when Bryce immediately understands (that no deal in saving me unless he can recruit me).

[Serissia]

keesio74 wrote...

Lots of interesting discussion. Cool.

Anyway my HNM is a rational thinker and would feel it my duty to warn my brother of the betrayal and seek revenge on Howe, as requested by my parents. I would vow to honor them by chopping off Howe's head. That'd be priority #1, not some darkspawn. So I would be willing to escape with Duncan. What I don't want to do is be sidetracked with all this Warden stuff. So would Duncan allow be to go with him if I didn't join?

Did you actually get Bryce to say venegence aganist Howe is more important than serving your country? 

I've played through 3 HNFs and I've never had him say that to me.  He's always said that as a Cousland I must do my duty and serve my country. 

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
She is still angry and devastated, but she knows she doesn't have the luxury of letting it consume her.

And yet she is willing to abandon everyone and leave her nation to its fate if Alsitair decided to make Howe a Warden, no?

"She is still angry and devastated, but she knows she doesn't have the luxury of letting it consume her at that moment."  Mybad for not being more specific.  She struggles with it throughout the events of the game.  Her anger and pain don't magically go away.  They're still there, and she doesn't always succeed at keeping them buried.

And as we have discussed before, I have said there are breaking points.  Her sense of duty and honor and doing what's right only takes her so far.  They would not take her across that line of betrayal.  You can think less of her for it, but she is human.  What Howe did is a betrayal of her family and country.  If Alistair were to do that, it's a betrayal of her and their love.  Big difference to her.

[Serissia]

keesio74 wrote...
Don't forget that part where Duncan says that if he helps Bryce (by leading me to safety) he must get something in return (my service). This is when Bryce immediately understands (that no deal in saving me unless he can recruit me).

Honestly the PC probably could save their self.  Duncan is an excellent warrior but the PC is intimately fimilar with the castle and the area.  Duncan gives the PC a reason not to throw his/her life away; live on, serve your country by standing against the Blight.  The PC's revenge means little if all of Ferelden falls to the darkspawn.  As Ser Bryant says in Lothering "Only fools fight over a cottage as it burns down around them.". 

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
And as we have discussed before, I have said there are breaking points.  Her sense of duty and honor and doing what's right only takes her so far.  They would not take her across that line of betrayal.  You can think less of her for it, but she is human.  What Howe did is a betrayal of her family and country.  If Alistair were to do that, it's a betrayal of her and their love.  Big difference to her.

And it's her betraying her duty as a Cousland and betraying her dying father's words (he emphasised duty more than revenge and if one had to take precedence, it's duty).

It;s not about me thinking less of her. What I think about your character is irrelevent. Just want to put it in perspective.