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[LadyDamodred]

Serissia wrote...

keesio74 wrote...
Don't forget that part where Duncan says that if he helps Bryce (by leading me to safety) he must get something in return (my service). This is when Bryce immediately understands (that no deal in saving me unless he can recruit me).

Honestly the PC probably could save their self.  Duncan is an excellent warrior but the PC is intimately fimilar with the castle and the area.  Duncan gives the PC a reason not to throw his/her life away; live on, serve your country by standing against the Blight.  The PC's revenge means little if all of Ferelden falls to the darkspawn.  As Ser Bryant says in Lothering "Only fools fight over a cottage as it burns down around them.". 

I have the feeling that you, by yourself, would probably not make it out.  Maybe if Duncan were not there, you and your mom might make it, but eh... 

[keesio74]

btw - I just realized that one thing that may be clouding my judgement is the fact that I know the deal about being a Warden (the chance of dying during the joining and also how the taint slowly take over and will eventually get you). If this was my first playthrough ever, I may have a more open mind regarding Duncan. But because I know this (as well as Duncan) and I know that Bryce does not, I feel that if Bryce did know, he might not have ever given his permission.

As Anora herself once made the comment that the joining can be fatal when trying to rationalize keeping Loghain around.

Modifié par keesio74, 19 avril 2010 - 07:09 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
And as we have discussed before, I have said there are breaking points.  Her sense of duty and honor and doing what's right only takes her so far.  They would not take her across that line of betrayal.  You can think less of her for it, but she is human.  What Howe did is a betrayal of her family and country.  If Alistair were to do that, it's a betrayal of her and their love.  Big difference to her.

And it's her betraying her duty as a Cousland and betraying her dying father's words (he emphasised duty more than revenge and if one had to take precedence, it's duty).

It;s not about me thinking less of her. What I think about your character is irrelevent. Just want to put it in perspective.

You're right.  It is her betraying everything she was taught.  I do not deny this.  Eventually, she would have felt really, really ****ty about it.  When all is said and done, she is still young and she's been dealing with terrible burdens.  She is already incredibly stressed.  And the problem is, at that moment, the betrayal is too great for her to deal with.  It would break her.  Hence my use of the term 'breaking point'.  

Would it be what her parents would have wanted from her?  No.  Would they understand why she felt the way she did?  I'd like to think so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Would it be what her parents would have wanted from her?  No.  Would they understand why she felt the way she did?  I'd like to think so.

Well that's the problem. For a Warden and in a time like the blight, understanding why a comrade at arms is deserting is not really important. I am pretty sure Duncan unferstood Jory, and that didn't stop him from killing him.

So I personally believe that your PC should be executed if she had done that. But that's just me.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Would it be what her parents would have wanted from her?  No.  Would they understand why she felt the way she did?  I'd like to think so.

Well that's the problem. For a Warden and in a time like the blight, understanding why a comrade at arms is deserting is not really important. I am pretty sure Duncan unferstood Jory, and that didn't stop him from killing him.

So I personally believe that your PC should be executed if she had done that. But that's just me.

And we've already discussed your excessive logic and rationality and how most people are not like you. 

People are human.  They are not supposed to be perfect and they make decisions they later come to regret.  The problem with saying 'for a Warden and during a Blight' is that my character is largely a Warden in name only.  Everything she does is as a Cousland.  All of her decisions are based around trying to save her country, which is accomplished by ending the Blight.  Had she been inducted and served like any other Warden, it would be different.  Instead, she's thrown into a situation where she weilds Warden powers, but has no actual clue as to how to be a Warden.

Besides, I'd like to see someone try and execute me. 

Edit:  You've read my fic  You know how Lya thinks. 

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 19 avril 2010 - 07:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Everything she does is as a Cousland.  

Even as a Cousland, her betrayal warrants execution.
Yes humans are not perfect. Doesn't stop us from executing deserters.

LadyDamodred wrote...
Besides, I'd like to see someone try and execute me. 

My rogue PC is stronger than yours

[Serissia]

keesio74 wrote...

btw - I just realized that one thing that may be clouding my judgement is the fact that I know the deal about being a Warden (the chance of dying during the joining and also how the taint slowly take over and will eventually get you). If this was my first playthrough ever, I may have a more open mind regarding Duncan. But because I know this (as well as Duncan) and I know that Bryce does not, I feel that if Bryce did know, he might not have ever given his permission.

As Anora herself once made the comment that the joining can be fatal when trying to rationalize keeping Loghain around.

It's actually possible that the Couslands having had ties with Sophia Dryden during the rebellion aganist King Arland could know something of the Wardens.  Bryce speaks very highly of Duncan and he doesn't have to.  He could of simply acknowledged him without a single word of praise.  He even goes so far as to say Duncan is a hero.  Bryce is the only other Teryn (Teryns are second only to the King) it's fair to assume that Bryce and Maric were friends.  Maric could of told of some of his adventures with the Wardens to Bryce.  There could of even possibly been some kind of ceremony or celebration when Maric returned and announced that the Wardens were once again welcome in Ferelden. 

Long story short, Bryce hols the Wardens in high regard.  Even if he didn't know about the fatality of the Joining, he knew that Wardens battle the Blight regardless of race, sex or nationality.  He knew it was an important task that must be addressed.

[sleepingbelow]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

My rogue PC is stronger than yours

ROLL INITIATIVE!!

[Serissia]

LadyDamodred wrote...
I have the feeling that you, by yourself, would probably not make it out.  Maybe if Duncan were not there, you and your mom might make it, but eh... 

At that point Howe's men hadn't found the servants exit in the larder.  The PC could of slipped out and probably avoided a majority if not all of Howe's men and slipped out.  This all happened in the dead of night after all.  I suppose a rogue PC might have an easier time than a warrior PC. 

[Urshakk]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Are you calling my HNF insane? She is a Cousland. She looks at the situation, sees what is going to happen and knows there is nothing she can do to save her parents. Her mother will not abandon her dying father, and she knows it. Also, she wanted to be a Grey Warden. Her path was clear. Her options are: argue with her parents and refuse to go with Duncan, forgetting everything her parents raised her to be, or accept what she is and what has happened and do what she must. She chooses the latter. I think that is quite sane. She is still angry and devastated, but she knows she doesn't have the luxury of letting it consume her.

No, I'm saying nobody would leave their family to die if they had a choice but in this case you don't.

[keesio74]

Serissia wrote...


It's actually possible that the Couslands having had ties with Sophia Dryden during the rebellion aganist King Arland could know something of the Wardens. 

Maybe he knows some stuff but the joining is supposed to be ultra top secret. Duncan killed Jory to keep that bit of news a secret. 

[Serissia]

keesio74 wrote...
Maybe he knows some stuff but the joining is supposed to be ultra top secret. Duncan killed Jory to keep that bit of news a secret.

It all depends on who someone is and what type of person they are.  Maric for example learned of much worse secrets than Jory and Duncan didn't kill him in the end.  I think it had more to do with the fact that Jory had pledged himself to becoming a Warden rather than him actually knowing the secret of the Joining.  Regardless, Jory was a worthless tosser and deserved to die. 

[sleepingbelow]

No one deserves to die. They just have to.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Everything she does is as a Cousland.  

Even as a Cousland, her betrayal warrants execution.
Yes humans are not perfect. Doesn't stop us from executing deserters.

LadyDamodred wrote...
Besides, I'd like to see someone try and execute me. 

My rogue PC is stronger than yours

I'm just saying, this is how she looks at everything.  And I could kick your rogue's ass. 

[Zy-El]

Actually, my HNF was quite the opposite. She respects strength and skill with sword. Tried to do the nasty with Duncan and got him a little flustered, "I-I don't think it would be a appropriate for us to be alone unattended." Nice to see a crack in that warrior's scowl of his.

What???  How else do you think we're going to have more Couslands? 

Modifié par Zy-El, 19 avril 2010 - 08:33 .

[LadyDamodred]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Funny that so many people hate Duncan as a Dalish. I never blamed Duncan for what happened to Tamlen. The way the story plays out, Duncan finds you alone outside of the cave and Tamlen is no where to be found. I always figured that Tamlen unthinkingly wandered off in a different direction. It's not as though Duncan saves you because he thinks you would make a great Grey Warden. When he first finds you in the forest he knows nothing about you and is just bringing you back to your people because it is the right thing to do. It's not until AFTER you recover and kill hordes of Darkspawn to make it back to the cave that Duncan realizes that you would make a good Grey Warden.

I don't blame him for what happened to Tamlen.  I am angry that he didn't tell me what would happen.  It was the lie of omission that got me.  He knew damn well what would happen and said nothing.

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

dream_operator23 wrote...

Funny that so many people hate Duncan as a Dalish. I never blamed Duncan for what happened to Tamlen. The way the story plays out, Duncan finds you alone outside of the cave and Tamlen is no where to be found. I always figured that Tamlen unthinkingly wandered off in a different direction. It's not as though Duncan saves you because he thinks you would make a great Grey Warden. When he first finds you in the forest he knows nothing about you and is just bringing you back to your people because it is the right thing to do. It's not until AFTER you recover and kill hordes of Darkspawn to make it back to the cave that Duncan realizes that you would make a good Grey Warden.

I don't blame him for what happened to Tamlen.  I am angry that he didn't tell me what would happen.  It was the lie of omission that got me.  He knew damn well what would happen and said nothing.

DItto.  He just says the darkspawn would have taken Tamlen's body but wouldn't go into details.  Rhia also felt they could have done more to look for him.  (and yea I chose the guilty response in the Gauntlet)

[Urshakk]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Funny that so many people hate Duncan as a Dalish. I never blamed Duncan for what happened to Tamlen. The way the story plays out, Duncan finds you alone outside of the cave and Tamlen is no where to be found. I always figured that Tamlen unthinkingly wandered off in a different direction. It's not as though Duncan saves you because he thinks you would make a great Grey Warden. When he first finds you in the forest he knows nothing about you and is just bringing you back to your people because it is the right thing to do. It's not until AFTER you recover and kill hordes of Darkspawn to make it back to the cave that Duncan realizes that you would make a good Grey Warden.

My Dalish didn't, in fact I was more mad at Tamlen. That idiot, I said to be careful going into the cave and to leave the mirror alone but nooooooo, went and touched it. So when I found out Duncan brought me back to camp I was surprised to say the least, that some random shem rescued me. I was wary of him at first but it only took a few words to realize he wasn't ordinally and of good character. I was pretty much sold after he offered a way to cure me and gave me a place in the wardens.

[Zy-El]

In my Dalish play-through, I was actually more angry with Tamlen rather than Duncan who literally hauled my $$$ out of there. Who is stupid enough to touch an unknown magic mirror in the middle of an ancient temple??? She was grudingly grateful to the human Duncan but a little hostile to poor Alistair. Eventually clicked with Zevran who I'm sure had a Dalish-mother complex when romancing her.

[Nivilant]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Funny that so many people hate Duncan as a Dalish. I never blamed Duncan for what happened to Tamlen. The way the story plays out, Duncan finds you alone outside of the cave and Tamlen is no where to be found. I always figured that Tamlen unthinkingly wandered off in a different direction. It's not as though Duncan saves you because he thinks you would make a great Grey Warden. When he first finds you in the forest he knows nothing about you and is just bringing you back to your people because it is the right thing to do. It's not until AFTER you recover and kill hordes of Darkspawn to make it back to the cave that Duncan realizes that you would make a good Grey Warden.

Oh I personally, as a player, have no problem really with Duncan. He's one of my favourite NPCs.

The deal for me was that the elf I roleplayed had a massive 'thing' against Humans in general, which was a trait Tamlen himself seemed to share. Also, there was no way for her to know what happened at the cave other than Duncan's say-so. Therein, with her mistrust of Humans, lies the problem.

As I said, she mostly blamed the Humans that told them about the cave. In the eyes of her as a character that was the whole ill-fated beginning, and partially to deflect blame off herself for going along with it.

After the camp incident she wasn't very nice to anyone for a while anyway. If the first incident hadn't dented her trust then that certainly had a second shot.  >__<

Generally, from a gaming perspective, it's just more fun to play a flawed character, or one that doesn't always travel the reasonable route. (I may be overthinking this, but hey, I get into my stories in a big way)

[Remy LeBeau]

I have question about the book The Calling. Does it reveal a lot about who Duncan is? He's my favorite character.



Jory did deserve to die. He was a big coward.It's was a sure bet that if the Dark spawn was not stoped, he and his family was going to die. I would do anything to save my family.

[Aisynia]

In that case, Duncan should have known better than to recruit him.

[LadyDamodred]

Yes, you learn a lot more about Duncan. I would recommned reading it and The Stolen Throne.

[Remy LeBeau]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yes, you learn a lot more about Duncan. I would recommned reading it and The Stolen Throne.

Thank you. I will buy the book  a.s.a.p