146 réponses à ce sujet

[CalJones]

Yes, it concerns young (as in, brand new Warden) Duncan - how he joined the Wardens and so forth. He's rather different than the fatherly veteran you meet in Origins.

[sleepingbelow]

Remy LeBeau wrote...

Jory did deserve to die. He was a big coward.It's was a sure bet that if the Dark spawn was not stoped, he and his family was going to die. I would do anything to save my family.

People get scared.  I can't blame people for being fallible sometimes.  I certainly can't hate somebody for being scared.

But Jory did have to die.  He was way, way past the point of no return.  If he ran off at the moment screaming his head off to anybody who would listen about the Joining, it could severely damage the Grey Wardens' ability to recruit people.  Which is not great most of the time, but apocalyptic during a Blight.  If there wasn't a Blight going on at that very moment, I could even imagine Duncan letting Jory live and simply attempting to suppress the information.  The stakes were just way, way, way too high.

People do die sometimes because they're too weak to survive a situation.  But I don't think people should make that decision arbitrarily.  Personally, I wouldn't do it to enforce "discipline" in a small unit like the Grey Wardens, though I understand others would.  People dying sucks.  Jory's death, even if he was a dope, sucked.  It sucked but it had to happen.

Ideally, I feel people should never use words like "deserves" when they're talking about somebody dying, and I get wary when people do. This goes even in the case of revenge, though I don't really fault the people that do.  We're all human after all.  We can only strive to survive and be better, in that order.

[Remy LeBeau]

Aisynia wrote...

In that case, Duncan should have known better than to recruit him.

In my opinion. I don't think Duncan wanted to recruit him. Jory says it was hard to impress Duncan. The reason I think Duncan says what the hell why not recruit him is because he needed all the wardens he could get.

Now I'm just guessing here. I think of screen, Alistair told Ducan about how Jory was being a coward and he said it was foolish reckless into the wilds because there was a lot of Dark Spawn. What did he think being a Grey Warden was. History says the Grey Wardens are aways the first on the the battle field. And The Wardens risk there lives so no one else have to.


In Jory defense. The Dark Spawn did take out a unit of men. But still

[sylvanaerie]

I don't think Jory's issue was battle. I think his issue was with the "Unknown" which can be very very frightening to someone who only responds to threats with a blade. Darkspawn do sneak attacks coming out of the ground and Jory knows there is a horde out here (and doesn't know Alistair can sense if they are getting to close until Al tells him this). His freak out was starting even before Daveth died and seeing that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.



Everyone has their breaking points and for Jory I think it was the "Unknown" aspects of being a warden.

[Remy LeBeau]

sleepingbelow wrote...

Remy LeBeau wrote...

Jory did deserve to die. He was a big coward.It's was a sure bet that if the Dark spawn was not stoped, he and his family was going to die. I would do anything to save my family.

People get scared.  I can't blame people for being fallible sometimes.  I certainly can't hate somebody for being scared.

But Jory did have to die.  He was way, way past the point of no return.  If he ran off at the moment screaming his head off to anybody who would listen about the Joining, it could severely damage the Grey Wardens' ability to recruit people.  Which is not great most of the time, but apocalyptic during a Blight.  If there wasn't a Blight going on at that very moment, I could even imagine Duncan letting Jory live and simply attempting to suppress the information.  The stakes were just way, way, way too high.

People do die sometimes because they're too weak to survive a situation.  But I don't think people should make that decision arbitrarily.  Personally, I wouldn't do it to enforce "discipline" in a small unit like the Grey Wardens, though I understand others would.  People dying sucks.  Jory's death, even if he was a dope, sucked.  It sucked but it had to happen.

Ideally, I feel people should never use words like "deserves" when they're talking about somebody dying, and I get wary when people do. This goes even in the case of revenge, though I don't really fault the people that do.  We're all human after all.  We can only strive to survive and be better, in that order.

Okay deserve was the wrong word. But I agree he had to die. I think Ducan would have tried to calm him down. But  with him drawing his sword, Duncan had to kill him.

[LadyDamodred]

Remy LeBeau wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...

Remy LeBeau wrote...

Jory did deserve to die. He was a big coward.It's was a sure bet that if the Dark spawn was not stoped, he and his family was going to die. I would do anything to save my family.

People get scared.  I can't blame people for being fallible sometimes.  I certainly can't hate somebody for being scared.

But Jory did have to die.  He was way, way past the point of no return.  If he ran off at the moment screaming his head off to anybody who would listen about the Joining, it could severely damage the Grey Wardens' ability to recruit people.  Which is not great most of the time, but apocalyptic during a Blight.  If there wasn't a Blight going on at that very moment, I could even imagine Duncan letting Jory live and simply attempting to suppress the information.  The stakes were just way, way, way too high.

People do die sometimes because they're too weak to survive a situation.  But I don't think people should make that decision arbitrarily.  Personally, I wouldn't do it to enforce "discipline" in a small unit like the Grey Wardens, though I understand others would.  People dying sucks.  Jory's death, even if he was a dope, sucked.  It sucked but it had to happen.

Ideally, I feel people should never use words like "deserves" when they're talking about somebody dying, and I get wary when people do. This goes even in the case of revenge, though I don't really fault the people that do.  We're all human after all.  We can only strive to survive and be better, in that order.

Okay deserve was the wrong word. But I agree he had to die. I think Ducan would have tried to calm him down. But  with him drawing his sword, Duncan had to kill him.

That's what Duncan says.  "When he went for his blade, he left me no choice."  I *think* that's what the line was.

[Remy LeBeau]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think Jory's issue was battle. I think his issue was with the "Unknown" which can be very very frightening to someone who only responds to threats with a blade. Darkspawn do sneak attacks coming out of the ground and Jory knows there is a horde out here (and doesn't know Alistair can sense if they are getting to close until Al tells him this). His freak out was starting even before Daveth died and seeing that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Everyone has their breaking points and for Jory I think it was the "Unknown" aspects of being a warden.

But being a battle harden warrior, he should expect  sneak attacks to happen.Imo Jory should have known there was more to being a Grey Warden than just simply killing Dark Spawn. My Pc which is me knew it was more to it then that. I guess that is the Sherlock Holmes in me.

[Remy LeBeau]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Remy LeBeau wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...

Remy LeBeau wrote...

Jory did deserve to die. He was a big coward.It's was a sure bet that if the Dark spawn was not stoped, he and his family was going to die. I would do anything to save my family.

People get scared.  I can't blame people for being fallible sometimes.  I certainly can't hate somebody for being scared.

But Jory did have to die.  He was way, way past the point of no return.  If he ran off at the moment screaming his head off to anybody who would listen about the Joining, it could severely damage the Grey Wardens' ability to recruit people.  Which is not great most of the time, but apocalyptic during a Blight.  If there wasn't a Blight going on at that very moment, I could even imagine Duncan letting Jory live and simply attempting to suppress the information.  The stakes were just way, way, way too high.

People do die sometimes because they're too weak to survive a situation.  But I don't think people should make that decision arbitrarily.  Personally, I wouldn't do it to enforce "discipline" in a small unit like the Grey Wardens, though I understand others would.  People dying sucks.  Jory's death, even if he was a dope, sucked.  It sucked but it had to happen.

Ideally, I feel people should never use words like "deserves" when they're talking about somebody dying, and I get wary when people do. This goes even in the case of revenge, though I don't really fault the people that do.  We're all human after all.  We can only strive to survive and be better, in that order.

Okay deserve was the wrong word. But I agree he had to die. I think Ducan would have tried to calm him down. But  with him drawing his sword, Duncan had to kill him.

That's what Duncan says.  "When he went for his blade, he left me no choice."  I *think* that's what the line was.

Yes that was the line.

[LadyDamodred]

Remy LeBeau wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think Jory's issue was battle. I think his issue was with the "Unknown" which can be very very frightening to someone who only responds to threats with a blade. Darkspawn do sneak attacks coming out of the ground and Jory knows there is a horde out here (and doesn't know Alistair can sense if they are getting to close until Al tells him this). His freak out was starting even before Daveth died and seeing that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Everyone has their breaking points and for Jory I think it was the "Unknown" aspects of being a warden.

But being a battle harden warrior, he should expect  sneak attacks to happen.Imo Jory should have known there was more to being a Grey Warden than just simply killing Dark Spawn. My Pc which is me knew it was more to it then that. I guess that is the Sherlock Holmes in me.

Yeah, when Duncan was like 'Hey, you need three vials of darkspawn blood!' and my character was like 'Hey!  There are three recruits!  Can I guess what's going to happen?"

[Remy LeBeau]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Remy LeBeau wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think Jory's issue was battle. I think his issue was with the "Unknown" which can be very very frightening to someone who only responds to threats with a blade. Darkspawn do sneak attacks coming out of the ground and Jory knows there is a horde out here (and doesn't know Alistair can sense if they are getting to close until Al tells him this). His freak out was starting even before Daveth died and seeing that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Everyone has their breaking points and for Jory I think it was the "Unknown" aspects of being a warden.

But being a battle harden warrior, he should expect  sneak attacks to happen.Imo Jory should have known there was more to being a Grey Warden than just simply killing Dark Spawn. My Pc which is me knew it was more to it then that. I guess that is the Sherlock Holmes in me.

Yeah, when Duncan was like 'Hey, you need three vials of darkspawn blood!' and my character was like 'Hey!  There are three recruits!  Can I guess what's going to happen?"

I knew was coming next. Tried to beat it out of Duncan and, hes like i'll tell you later

[Serissia]

Jory should never of entered the Grand Melee, period. He may be an able knight but he obviously wasn't battle hardened. The knights of Highever (or Redcliff prior to his move) wouldn't have see much action during times of peace. There might of been groups of bandits or other such nonsense but nothing as truly frightening as darkspawn. He ill prepared for the coming battles and unable to sever personal ties. He was a horrid candidate to become a Warden.

If it wasn't for the Blight Duncan probably would of rejected Jory regardless of the fact he won the tournament. A couple different Codex talk about Duncan and his recruiting. I believe one is from Alistair recruitment and the other regarding a dwarven Proving. Duncan never asked for these tournaments the Banns, Arls or Kings felt compelled to throw the event in his honor.

As far as Daveth goes it's possible that Duncan saw that the lad was in a similar situation as he was when he was recruited and gave him the benefit of the doubt. Daveth also had no personal ties or anything thing to lose; in that respect he was an excellent candidate.

Modifié par Serissia, 20 avril 2010 - 12:26 .

[Suron]

Duncan was always a tool. But the Human Noble is DEFINATELY him at his worst...the other origins is more acceptable that he "saves" you.



The Noble though? here this ****** is..trapped in a castle/keep with an enemy army beating it's way in to MURDER us ALL..including his IGNORANT ASS...he wouldn't even KNOW about the escape route in the Larder if it wasn't for us..yet he DICTATES that he'll ONLY HELP if you join the wardens?



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA makes me shake my head at those that look up to him...he's a ******..a murderer..and a scumbag...he deserved MORE then that axe to his face.

[keesio74]

You folks are too hard on Jory. He was a little naive but the only reason he freaked out as far as I can remember is because he saw Daveth die doing the joining. And he freaked. You can't blame him for that. I was like WTF too.

[LadyDamodred]

Thank you, Suron, for that nuanced and thoughtful addition to the discussion.



As for Jory... He was brave enough with a foe he could face and fight. Like others have siad, it's this unknown thing that unnerves him. There is no way to fight it or give youself an edge in the battle against it. You will either die or you will live. He can't handle that fear and uncertainly and he does something stupid.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
As for Jory... He was brave enough with a foe he could face and fight. Like others have siad, it's this unknown thing that unnerves him. There is no way to fight it or give youself an edge in the battle against it. You will either die or you will live. He can't handle that fear and uncertainly and he does something stupid.

It's more than just uncertainty. He doesn't want to die this way, why?
Because "there is no glory in this".

When he said that sentence, any prievous sympathy I might have had for Jory is swept away.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 avril 2010 - 12:39 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
As for Jory... He was brave enough with a foe he could face and fight. Like others have siad, it's this unknown thing that unnerves him. There is no way to fight it or give youself an edge in the battle against it. You will either die or you will live. He can't handle that fear and uncertainly and he does something stupid.

It's more than just uncertainty. He doesn't want to die this way, why?
Because "there is no glory in this".

When he said that sentence, any prievous sympathy I might have had for Jory is swept away.

*nods*  I understand.  He's just not built to handle a world with Blights and monsters.  I think I feel bad for his wife and kid, which bleeds over into sympathy for him.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 20 avril 2010 - 12:42 .

[Suron]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Thank you, Suron, for that nuanced and thoughtful addition to the discussion.

As for Jory... He was brave enough with a foe he could face and fight. Like others have siad, it's this unknown thing that unnerves him. There is no way to fight it or give youself an edge in the battle against it. You will either die or you will live. He can't handle that fear and uncertainly and he does something stupid.

I didn't read the entire thread..I posted what I wanted too based off the thread title....don't like it? tough ****.  gtfo of my face

[MelRedux]

Suron wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Thank you, Suron, for that nuanced and thoughtful addition to the discussion.

As for Jory... He was brave enough with a foe he could face and fight. Like others have siad, it's this unknown thing that unnerves him. There is no way to fight it or give youself an edge in the battle against it. You will either die or you will live. He can't handle that fear and uncertainly and he does something stupid.

I didn't read the entire thread..I posted what I wanted too based off the thread title....don't like it? tough ****.  gtfo of my face

You are a very angry man.

[LadyDamodred]

Suron wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Thank you, Suron, for that nuanced and thoughtful addition to the discussion.

As for Jory... He was brave enough with a foe he could face and fight. Like others have siad, it's this unknown thing that unnerves him. There is no way to fight it or give youself an edge in the battle against it. You will either die or you will live. He can't handle that fear and uncertainly and he does something stupid.

I didn't read the entire thread..I posted what I wanted too based off the thread title....don't like it? tough ****.  gtfo of my face

*chuckles*  If you are trying to offend, my dear, you shall have to do better than that.  As for getting out of your face, you are neither required to read nor respond to anything I say, as I am free to do the same to you.  *shrugs*  I'm stubborn, and feel compelled to respond to things like that.  One would think years of dealing with fansubbing fans would have beaten it out of me, but alas, no.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mel_Redux wrote...
You are a very angry man boy.

Better.

[Serissia]

Personally I think Duncan is a fascinating character but everyone is entitled to their opinions. There was clear character growth from the young man he was during The Calling to the stoic Commander of the Grey that he is now.

Anyone that wants to really feel saved by Duncan should probably play a city elf. The Dalish and HN origins can be questionable I suppose. Though, I don't see it. There's plenty of dialogue in both origins to support what is to come.

Modifié par Serissia, 20 avril 2010 - 01:07 .

[Sarah1281]

He really saves both dwarves, too, and probably the mage as even if they were acting under Irvings orders they still enabled Jowan to destroy his phylactery and thus aided a blood mage so there would have been consequences.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Duncan needed a recruit. If Duncan didn't leave Highever with a recruit it would have been time wasted, time he could have spent elsewhere finding a recruit. I understand him completely. I'm not saying what he did was all fine and dandy, but I understand him, and would probably have done the same in his place.

[sleepingbelow]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

It's more than just uncertainty. He doesn't want to die this way, why?
Because "there is no glory in this".

When he said that sentence, any prievous sympathy I might have had for Jory is swept away.

I get the feeling that's something frat-boy knights say when they're nervous or upset.  They probably also say that when they realize the milk in the fridge has gone sour.  Also akin to Hudson screaming, "Game over, man, game over!"

Suron wrote...

I quote Nickleback or some other terrible band in my sig without a trace of irony!  In 2010!

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 20 avril 2010 - 02:49 .

[LadyDamodred]

sleepingbelow wrote...

Suron wrote...

I quote Nickleback or some other terrible band in my sig without a trace of irony!  In 2010!

Hey, I will not deny anyone a secret, or not so secret, love for Nickleback.