42 réponses à ce sujet

[iCrescendoll]

"Pardon" him..?

[Aisynia]

iCrescendoll wrote...

Is Loghain a grey warden?? 00

If you want to be spoiled...








..if you recruit him, yes. You FORCE him to undergo the Joining. Logic being that if he dies in the joining you have your revenge/justice and if not, then you gain a general.. and being a Grey Warden is a death sentence regardless. That's really why Alistair jumps ship.. to him you have sullied the entire Order by bringing him in.. but Alistair is being ridiculous**.. you need all the Wardens you can get (and that point becomes more obvious when Riordan tells you about the death-on-kill thing). If he's not set up to marry Anora and you don't choose to execute him, Alistair will run away and becoming a pathetic, wandering drunk.

**EDIT: Clarifying that he's being ridiculous cause Wardens are often lowlifes who have come to a higher calling.. as Riordan puts it.. kinslayers, carta thugs, blood mages.. Alistair, ultimately, is seeing the order how Jory did.. shining knights riding griffons.

Modifié par Aisynia, 19 avril 2010 - 11:53 .

[Ramante]

iCrescendoll wrote...

"Pardon" him..?

Fight him and win.
He will say he gives up and then you can respond with 'I accept your surrender'.

Alistair will be very pissed, but you'll get over it.

[iCrescendoll]

Really?? Do you get to meet him after he runs away??

Sorry I know so little, I never plyed those parts like this before.. ^^"

[Ramante]

iCrescendoll wrote...

Really?? Do you get to meet him after he runs away??
Sorry I know so little, I never plyed those parts like this before.. ^^"

Doesn't matter, I still find new things and I have finished the game three times already. x3

No, you won't meet him. You get a nice epilogue card about him.
Nice isn't the right word, but you will know what happens to him.

Modifié par Ramante, 19 avril 2010 - 11:54 .

[Aisynia]

iCrescendoll wrote...

Really?? Do you get to meet him after he runs away??
Sorry I know so little, I never plyed those parts like this before.. ^^"

No, he runs away at the end of the landsmeet, and then in the Epilogue it mentions that there is a pathetic wandering drunk man who claims he used to be a Grey Warden, but no one believes him.

[Aisynia]

I would like to add, that even with all these spoilers you are requesting.. it's still worth playing personally and seeing. Being told about something and having the emotional impact of experiencing it are very different.

[iCrescendoll]

Lol.. I can't play stuff involving Alistair suffering, it makes it less fun for me to play..

Maybe I'll save and unlock a few achievements, but I won't continue the game with Alistair upset/dead/someone else's (Morrigan is an exception)..

Thank you guys so much, I've learnt a lot! It'll sure help me on the near future!! ^^

I gotta go now.. Thanks again!!

[Aisynia]

Ramante wrote...

iCrescendoll wrote...

Really?? Do you get to meet him after he runs away??
Sorry I know so little, I never plyed those parts like this before.. ^^"

Doesn't matter, I still find new things and I have finished the game three times already. x3

Yeah no kidding, I just found soemthing completely new on my last couple playthroughs (the room with the caged elves in the hospice).

[Aisynia]

iCrescendoll wrote...

Lol.. I can't play stuff involving Alistair suffering, it makes it less fun for me to play..
Maybe I'll save and unlock a few achievements, but I won't continue the game with Alistair upset/dead/someone else's (Morrigan is an exception)..
Thank you guys so much, I've learnt a lot! It'll sure help me on the near future!! ^^
I gotta go now.. Thanks again!!

I know how you feel. Leliana is a lot like my girlfriend and so I had a hard time romancing someone who wasn't her at first.. but you get used to the idea of doing it.

I just played a character who romanced Alistair, then pawned him off on Anora while staying his mistres, and then spared Loghain (she's a Dwarf Noble who made Bhelen king). She was unhappy, but you don't always need a happy ending. A less than happy ending can be just as satisfying once you get used to the idea of actually doing it.

Then again, I'm stil in the process of trying to get myself to play a male character lol. So fair, this has resulted in failure.

Modifié par Aisynia, 19 avril 2010 - 12:01 .

[Ramante]

iCrescendoll wrote...

Lol.. I can't play stuff involving Alistair suffering, it makes it less fun for me to play..
Maybe I'll save and unlock a few achievements, but I won't continue the game with Alistair upset/dead/someone else's (Morrigan is an exception)..
Thank you guys so much, I've learnt a lot! It'll sure help me on the near future!! ^^
I gotta go now.. Thanks again!!

I had the same problem, that's why I unlocked all the 'ending' achievements at the same day.
I started with Alistair dying, next I recruted Loghain and let him die, followed by my Warden dying. The last ending I unlocked was Alistair and the Warden survived and got married.
So my 'real' ending was good and it removed the 'bad taste' of the other endings.. now I'm no longer very fond of Alistair, so bad things happening to him no longer feel 'wrong'.

But if you are a real Alistair girl, I wish you luck. x3

@Aisynia, you got problem playing a male Warden? I know what you mean, I got the same problem. I can't great a nice male Warden, the faces are just 'blegh' and the story doesn't feel right with a guy. I have made 4 male characters and I have deleted all of them. I'm now trying again with a male Dalish elf. xD

Modifié par Ramante, 19 avril 2010 - 12:03 .

[sylvanaerie]

Aisynia wrote...

iCrescendoll wrote...

Lol.. I can't play stuff involving Alistair suffering, it makes it less fun for me to play..
Maybe I'll save and unlock a few achievements, but I won't continue the game with Alistair upset/dead/someone else's (Morrigan is an exception)..
Thank you guys so much, I've learnt a lot! It'll sure help me on the near future!! ^^
I gotta go now.. Thanks again!!

I know how you feel. Leliana is a lot like my girlfriend and so I had a hard time romancing someone who wasn't her at first.. but you get used to the idea of doing it.

I just played a character who romanced Alistair, then pawned him off on Anora while staying his mistres, and then spared Loghain (she's a Dwarf Noble who made Bhelen king). She was unhappy, but you don't always need a happy ending. A less than happy ending can be just as satisfying once you get used to the idea of actually doing it.

Then again, I'm stil in the process of trying to get myself to play a male character lol. So fair, this has resulted in failure.

How did you get him to marry Anora, spare Loghain and remain his mistress?  I thought the romance ends if you spare Loghain? was this with a mod? or did you mean something else?

[Aisynia]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

iCrescendoll wrote...

Lol.. I can't play stuff involving Alistair suffering, it makes it less fun for me to play..
Maybe I'll save and unlock a few achievements, but I won't continue the game with Alistair upset/dead/someone else's (Morrigan is an exception)..
Thank you guys so much, I've learnt a lot! It'll sure help me on the near future!! ^^
I gotta go now.. Thanks again!!

I know how you feel. Leliana is a lot like my girlfriend and so I had a hard time romancing someone who wasn't her at first.. but you get used to the idea of doing it.

I just played a character who romanced Alistair, then pawned him off on Anora while staying his mistres, and then spared Loghain (she's a Dwarf Noble who made Bhelen king). She was unhappy, but you don't always need a happy ending. A less than happy ending can be just as satisfying once you get used to the idea of actually doing it.

Then again, I'm stil in the process of trying to get myself to play a male character lol. So fair, this has resulted in failure.

How did you get him to marry Anora, spare Loghain and remain his mistress?  I thought the romance ends if you spare Loghain? was this with a mod? or did you mean something else?

That's what I meant, I wasn't being clear. See my Dwarf Noble is an accomplished politician.. in my little world, her and Bhelen planned the entire origin from the beginning. Becoming a Grey Warden, coming back as a neutral exile/Warden and putting her brother on the throne wasn't an accident. Lo and behold, he gets on the throne, welcome back to House Aeducan

((EDIT: Only thing missing from that origin is being able to say hold up the Paragon crown and say "The Paragon chose ME!"))

The fact she ended up actually caring about the blight, or anyone outside Orzammar was NOT on her list of things to do.

Being the politician she is, arranging for a political marriage between Alistair and Anora wasn't tough for her to swallow (aside from the fact that dwarves often have concubines and such anyways, it's just a fact of life for them). When it came time to kill or spare Loghain however, it was pure pragmatism. There are a lot of very good reasons, both political and otherwise to spare him. That was her political and pragmatic side.

Her shortcoming was NOT seeing that Alistair would throw such a fit over it. She thought he would see the logic in it. He didn't. After the landsmeet, when she said she wanted to "talk about us" and he said "there is no us", she was admittedly heartbroken.. but as sad as she was, she was five times as pissed off.

See.. love is love. It is pure, and powerful, and it's worth going through anything for. When our partner does something we don't like, we can get mad, we can get hurt.. offended.. but ultimately, unless they decide to do something truly horrendous (crime against humanity stuff), our LOVE for them should overcome that.

The fact that, regardless of how Alistair felt about Loghain, he didn't love her enough to stay with her when she made a "bad call" hurt her more than being dumped in and of itself.

Here he is the entire game doting on her, saying how beautiful she is and how wonderful and amazing she is and how much he loves her, but when it comes to that one single decision, he abandons everything they had. He doesn't cool down for a couple weeks and apologize or anything, it's just over.

This is one of those deal-breaking personality flaws when it comes to Alistair, and a reason I romance Leli most of the time. Leli doesn't SAY "I love you", but her actions and her capability to love and forgive speak louder than Alistair ever could.

It is this quality that makes me stay with my RL girlfriend right now, even though things aren't too peachy between us. We LOVE each other, and we have FAITH in the ability for that love to overcome all obstacles.

It's the lack of this quality that made me leave my last 2 boyfriends and my girlfriend before that...

What good is telling someone you love them if you can't back it up with earnest actions?

Okay I think I'm preaching, but you get me.

Modifié par Aisynia, 19 avril 2010 - 12:45 .

[sleepingbelow]

Aisynia wrote...

What good is telling someone you love them if you can't back it up with earnest actions?

Er... doesn't Alistair sacrifice himself to save your life if you don't undertake the Dark Ritual?

[mousestalker]

Only if you take him to the rooftop. If you leave him at the gates, then he lives.

[Aisynia]

mousestalker wrote...

Only if you take him to the rooftop. If you leave him at the gates, then he lives.

And if you spare Loghain, he dumps you, which is what I'm talking about.

Okay, he hates Loghain, we get it. He hates that you spared him. He hates that you made him a Grey Warden.. but above all of that, love should endure.

True love always forgives. Maybe sparing Loghain was a mistake, maybe it wasn't, but to abandon someone that you say you love because of one bad call is..

He hated Loghain more than he loved the Warden. That's sad.

[Xandurpein]

Aisynia wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Only if you take him to the rooftop. If you leave him at the gates, then he lives.

And if you spare Loghain, he dumps you, which is what I'm talking about.

Okay, he hates Loghain, we get it. He hates that you spared him. He hates that you made him a Grey Warden.. but above all of that, love should endure.

True love always forgives. Maybe sparing Loghain was a mistake, maybe it wasn't, but to abandon someone that you say you love because of one bad call is..

He hated Loghain more than he loved the Warden. That's sad.

It could be argued that the Warden didn't love Alistair enough to listen to him either. It's not like Alistair doesn't give you a few chances to change your mind.

[sleepingbelow]

I'm just saying Alistair backs it up. Taking the Archdemon bullet is a pretty damn good way of backing it up.

Also... okay. Real quick. I spare Loghain in all sorts of playthroughs. I like that character a lot. But I like Alistair at least as much.

If true love always forgives, why don't you forgive him? If you were truly in love with him by that logic, you should waste away afterwards pining for your lost love instead of being pissed.

I was never surprised that Alistair ditches. He doesn't throw a fit. He makes it pretty clear that this is something he NEEDS. It may be a little creepy and scary that he needs vengeance, but it makes sense. The dude killed his adoptive family (ie the Wardens) If you let him go, every time he looks at you he's going to remember you're the one that gave him a pass. Don't pretend he surprised you. He makes it really clear the moment it is brought up. I think if you want him to "back up his words", regarding love, you should back up yours. As part of the larger picture, we know he is willing to die for you. Are you willing to kill for him? That's a tough question.

I say this while also holding the opinion that sparing Loghain is both smart and a decent thing to do. I don't care what kind of mumbo jumbo Harry Potter magic you believe in with "true love", that fruit has gone rotten. Sometimes peoples' needs are irreconcilable. Some loves are pretty flippin' tragic.

Sorry to the rest of the thread for being part of a hijack, and I know there are a million "Loghain v. Alistair" threads. I'm not really pro-Loghain or pro-Alistair. I'm pro both and I think it is a crappy, tragic situation.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 19 avril 2010 - 06:47 .