78 réponses à ce sujet

[Firesteel]

I am sorry if this makes anyone angry, but here is my two sense on why it was not included, and why it won't be.
First the "official" reason: art purposes, each suit was designed as a complete set, this makes some sense, but really avoids the question.You can build something as a single piece, but add the option to remove parts of it later in development.
My two sense: The real reason Bioware did this was if you look at N7 Armor, head wear has its own bonus, so at least for N7, no hope of helmet toggle either way. Now on to the DLC armor. the DLC armor has no toggle for the same reason, just because we cannot take it apart we do not know the bonus each item gives. Let's take Terminus for example, the legs can give the +10% sprint speed, the chest gives +5% shields, shoulders +5% Shields, arms give +10% ammo, and head gives +5% shields, in total +15% shields, +10% sprint, and + 10% ammo. If Bioware put in helmet toggle, it would be far more than just cosmetic, they would have to code the game so that it would change protection if you had toggled the helmet on or off.
I hope this is actually why Bioware did this, if not, it is just wild speculation, but i does make some sense right?
Again, sorry that I burst a lot of people's bubbles, but I felt this is something people want a lot, and thought that I might point out some of the finer issues with it.

Modifié par Firesteel7, 19 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[Blk_Mage_Ctype]

They could always redesign the DLC Armor so that it's in 2 pieces, body & helmet, and the helmet itself has no bonus attached whatsoever, and is only there for visual purposes.

Furthermore, If they can't do an actual Helmet Toggle, then just have it come off automatically when you enter a conversation like in DA:O.

It already works in reverse, where Shep's helmet toggles on when you go someplace without oxygen, so don't tell me they can't do it the other way around and have it come off when Shep enters a conversation.

Either way...

Modifié par Blk_Mage_Ctype, 19 avril 2010 - 07:07 .

[Firesteel]

I think it was mostly the customization of armor, instead of the loot system that DA:O had. I am really playing devil's advocate here, but I think some parts of helmet toggle could be implemented, like in conversations, but I found it annoying ind DAO that I was taking my helmet off every 2 seconds just to talk to people, even though it is nice to see your character's face, I think it was too annoying personally. I remember people were actually complaining about the helmet removal. I am one of the few who don't complain, probably because I am used to Halo where we have no idea what the character looks like under the helmet.

[Blk_Mage_Ctype]

Firesteel7 wrote...

I think it was mostly the customization of armor, instead of the loot system that DA:O had. I am really playing devil's advocate here, but I think some parts of helmet toggle could be implemented, like in conversations, but I found it annoying ind DAO that I was taking my helmet off every 2 seconds just to talk to people, even though it is nice to see your character's face, I think it was too annoying personally. I remember people were actually complaining about the helmet removal. I am one of the few who don't complain, probably because I am used to Halo where we have no idea what the character looks like under the helmet.

Well, if it's any comfort to you, if such a system were ever implemented, it would probably be too large to fit in a Patch by Microsoft's standards, so it would have to be a DLC.
And thus, anyone who would be annoyed by the helmet toggling off in conversation could simply not download the DLC.

[Firesteel]

I wouldn't mind if such a patch was implemented, but I would ask that it have its own toggle  to toggle if I wanted my helmet on or off in conversations.

[YukiFA]

The N7 helms give health bonuses and I still don't use then, so breaking apart the bonuses for a helmet toggle wouldn't bother me.

[Firesteel]

YukiFA wrote...

The N7 helms give health bonuses and I still don't use then, so breaking apart the bonuses for a helmet toggle wouldn't bother me.

I assume though that you use visors, so you still get a bonus, and that you can still see some of your face. I personally use either recon hood or N7 Breather, but mostly Death Mask, It's big and chunky and weird looking.

[simpatikool]

YukiFA wrote...

The N7 helms give health bonuses and I still don't use then, so breaking apart the bonuses for a helmet toggle wouldn't bother me.

I'm with you. I use the N7 armor set without the helmet. I rather do without the bonus.

[YukiFA]

Firesteel7 wrote...
I assume though that you use visors, so you still get a bonus, and that you can still see some of your face.

Nope, I don't use anything that obscures my Shepard's face, especially his eyes (because Bioware made a big deal about their work on the eyes, which they were truthful about).

[Firesteel]

I can understand that, as I stated before, I am a bit Halo player, so not seeing my character's face outside the ship does not bother me, but I completely understand where you are coming from, the eye animation in ME2 is fantastic.

[Darkhour]

Lack of helmet toggle is just one more thing in a list of things that show how unpolished the game is due to being rushed.

[xShadeSlayer]

You can choose in you locker whether or not to wear a helmet.

[sherban1988]

I love Bioware, I trully do. They put some awesome games into the universe, and I have nothing but respect for that.



That being said, I do think that the helmet thing was a horrible decision. The Blood Dragon looks awesome, but when I saw Shep have a drink through the helmet... it just killed it for me, and I stopped using DLC armor since, or helmets for that matter, and I regret having to do so.

[Firesteel]

yeah, the drinking through the hlmet is riduculous. the drinking while not on the ship is anyways, isn't Shepard a soldier? Isn't he not supposed to drink anyways?

[Raygereio]

Firesteel7 wrote...
You can build something as a single piece, but add the option to remove parts of it later in development.

Oh, dear God no. It doesn't work like that. That's like saying you want to build a house, but want the option to still be able to switch between wooden and brick walls when you're half way done building it.  You can't do that, you have to restart from scratch.

The DLC armours are - as far as I know - one model. The N7 armour are instead build up from several different model pieces (legs, chest, arms, head).Now why it was chosen to be one model; I don't know. "art purposes" I believe the excuse was (More likely they finished programming the N7 modular armour system, then realised it didn't support other armours and then just slapped the current system on as rebuilding it would take to much time, but that's just speculation).

To have a head toggle someone needs to for one redo all the DLC models and seperate the head from the rest. Next the game's code needs to be changed to display a toggle button to either display Shep's head or the helmet on top of the rest of the armour. Why won't this never happen? This isn't a game killing bug, it's not even a bug to begin with. It's a "feature" which works as designed by BioWare and just like other features that are dislike by some (*cough* planet-scanning *cough*) BioWare won't waste resources fixing something it doesn't think need fixing.

As for your theories on the bonusses of the armours. I'm not a bioware dev, nor do I have access to the game's sourcecode. In other words, I'm no expert, but that didn't make a lick of sense to me. Why would stat bonusses be tied to the displaying of ingame models like that?

Modifié par Raygereio, 19 avril 2010 - 08:59 .

[GMulryan]

Raygereio wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...
You can build something as a single piece, but add the option to remove parts of it later in development.

Oh, dear God no. It doesn't work like that. That's like saying you want to build a house, but want the option to still be able to switch between wooden and brick walls when you're half way done building it.  You can't do that, you have to restart from scratch.

The DLC armours are - as far as I know - one model. The N7 armour are instead build up from several different model pieces (legs, chest, arms, head).Now why it was chosen to be one model; I don't know. "art purposes" I believe the excuse was (More likely they finished programming the N7 modular armour system, then realised it didn't support other armours and then just slapped the current system on as rebuilding it would take to much time, but that's just speculation).

To have a head toggle someone needs to for one redo all the DLC models and seperate the head from the rest. Next the game's code needs to be changed to display a toggle button to either display Shep's head or the helmet on top of the rest of the armour. Why won't this never happen? This isn't a game killing bug, it's not even a bug to begin with. It's a "feature" which works as designed by BioWare and just like other features that are dislike by some (*cough* planet-scanning *cough*) BioWare won't waste resources fixing something it doesn't think need fixing.

As for your theories on the bonusses of the armours. I'm not a bioware dev, nor do I have access to the game's sourcecode. In other words, I'm no expert, but that didn't make a lick of sense to me. Why would stat bonusses be tied to the displaying of ingame models like that?

and this is why Darkhour is correct. As I look thru the very long list of testers, QA people, artists and programmers in the credits at the end of the game, not one of those people thought.... "hmm drinking thru the helmet....maybe toggle the helmet off at certain moments? What is needed here to keep Shepard from looking like an idiot tossing a drink at his/her helmet visor?"

[Firesteel]

Raygereio wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...
You can build something as a single piece, but add the option to remove parts of it later in development.

Oh, dear God no. It doesn't work like that. That's like saying you want to build a house, but want the option to still be able to switch between wooden and brick walls when you're half way done building it.  You can't do that, you have to restart from scratch.

The DLC armours are - as far as I know - one model. The N7 armour are instead build up from several different model pieces (legs, chest, arms, head).Now why it was chosen to be one model; I don't know. "art purposes" I believe the excuse was (More likely they finished programming the N7 modular armour system, then realised it didn't support other armours and then just slapped the current system on as rebuilding it would take to much time, but that's just speculation).

To have a head toggle someone needs to for one redo all the DLC models and seperate the head from the rest. Next the game's code needs to be changed to display a toggle button to either display Shep's head or the helmet on top of the rest of the armour. Why won't this never happen? This isn't a game killing bug, it's not even a bug to begin with. It's a "feature" which works as designed by BioWare and just like other features that are dislike by some (*cough* planet-scanning *cough*) BioWare won't waste resources fixing something it doesn't think need fixing.

As for your theories on the bonusses of the armours. I'm not a bioware dev, nor do I have access to the game's sourcecode. In other words, I'm no expert, but that didn't make a lick of sense to me. Why would stat bonusses be tied to the displaying of ingame models like that?

I'm sorry, but did you even read that this entire thread is speculation? I know the bonus thing is weird, but couldn't it be a leftover from the N7 Armor system? I'm sick today and the whole one model than splitting it was stupid, but anyways, I really don't see what people are so worked up about, if you don't like the armor don't wear it, simple enough.

[Blk_Mage_Ctype]

GMulryan wrote...

As I look thru the very long list of testers, QA people, artists and programmers in the credits at the end of the game, not one of those people thought.... "hmm drinking thru the helmet....maybe toggle the helmet off at certain moments? What is needed here to keep Shepard from looking like an idiot tossing a drink at his/her helmet visor?" 

It's because the game was rushed out.
It's most likely that the play testers only had access to the N7 Armor, and thus never got to see Shepard drinking through a visor, or being instantly recognized from across the room despite the fact that his face is completely obscured, and thus no complaints were filed, no comments made, and no suggestions were bounced off the devs concerning the matter.

It's also very likely that a conversation like this took place...

EA: "So, how's ME2 comin'?"

Bioware: "Great, game's lookin' good, now all we need to do is make the helmets come of during conversation, when Shepard takes a drink, or otherwise when someone is about to walk into the room and recognize him, and we're all done."

EA: "But otherwise the game's ready to go, right? No bugs or anything?"

Bioware: "Yeah, but we'd really like to do a bit more tweaking here and there. Make it the best game it possibly can be, you know? Keep the fans happy?"

EA: "Ah yes, Fans... The immortal race of sentient beings in Cyber Space that you must keep happy in order to turn a profit. We've dismissed that claim. Just put out the game immediately, M'kay?"

Firesteel7 wrote...

 if you don't like the armor don't wear it, simple enough.

That's the thing, Firesteel... Some of of LOVE the DLC Armor, and would very much like to wear it everywhere, but the fact that the helmet can't be toggled off before conversations and such prevent us from doing so because it obscures Shepard's face which we put alout of effort into making, and would like to be able to see sometimes.

Modifié par Blk_Mage_Ctype, 19 avril 2010 - 09:50 .

[Firesteel]

I put a lot of effort into making my Sheps, my male shep took me forever, too hard to make a full face, and I don't mind my face being obscured, but I guess I'm in the minority. I do agree the game was rushed, wasn't the hammerhead supposed to be in the game without DLC? and the drinking through the helmet could have been seen even with the N7 armor, there are full helmets afterall, maybe that's why my Shepard doesn't drink . I do think the coding for helmet toggle now would be too hard due to the game being already out, hopefully it will be back for ME3. I would love to have a dev in here tell us the really real reason that helmet toggle was removed, not just my wild speculation and thei "art" side of things. For those who say that they would wear the DLC armor if there was helmet toggle, as a soldier, would you be fighting people with or without your helmet on, or atleast some kind of visual aid, night vision goggles. but of course this is a game. I just hope they release more N7 pieces, hopefully for free, but anymore pieces would be most welcome, and I think that is the one thing the community agrees on.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I'd wear my cerberus armor if it had helmet toggle. My collector armor would look kinda silly without a helmet, but the option would still be nice. From a coding point of view, it really would not be difficult so long as they designed them with helmet toggle in mind.



I wonder how aware Bioware is of the fact that so many people let their nice DLC armors goto waste over something so small, yet significant.

[uberdowzen]

@ OP, sure but it's possible to hide the helmets and still have the bonuses take effect. Do you mean it'd make no sense if the helmet was off and it still provided bonuses? This doesn't matter for the DLC armour because the helmets don't add any bonuses anyway.

[Vena_86]

I dont see how just giving a helmet some generic invisible skin/texture would be such a big deal. It would be the same texture streched over all headgear in the game. I cant believe the UE3 engine cant pull that off. Seeing how much modeling and animation work gets obliterated by helmets its well worth the little extra effort. And ofcourse there are the immersion breaking bugs caused by this...design decision.

[Firesteel]

uberdowzen wrote...

@ OP, sure but it's possible to hide the helmets and still have the bonuses take effect. Do you mean it'd make no sense if the helmet was off and it still provided bonuses? This doesn't matter for the DLC armour because the helmets don't add any bonuses anyway.

How do you know that the helmet doesn't provide the bonus, have you asked bioware? Does in make sense that you would still get +5% health with no helmet? no, if you are wearing a helmet you should get some sort of protection bonus, no helmet no bonus, something wrong with that?

I dont see how just giving a helmet some generic invisible skin/texture would be such a big deal. It would be the same texture streched over all headgear in the game. I cant believe the UE3 engine cant pull that off. Seeing how much modeling and animation work gets obliterated by helmets its well worth the little extra effort. And ofcourse there are the immersion breaking bugs caused by this...design decision.

first of all, this is not a bug, it's a design decision, second, the engine can handel it, it is more of can you recode the models to allow for helmet toggle. The models themselves can be changed, only if the CODING can be changed, which is very hard to do on something that integrated.

Modifié par Firesteel7, 19 avril 2010 - 11:04 .

[FlyingWalrus]

Saying "the game was rushed out" is a play in self-serving ignorance. When did ME1 come out? 2007? ME2 has been in the works for at least two years. Stop saying stupid crap just to justify your criticisms.

[Blk_Mage_Ctype]

Firesteel7 wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

@ OP, sure but it's possible to hide the helmets and still have the bonuses take effect. Do you mean it'd make no sense if the helmet was off and it still provided bonuses? This doesn't matter for the DLC armour because the helmets don't add any bonuses anyway.

How do you know that the helmet doesn't provide the bonus, have you asked bioware? Does in make sense that you would still get +5% health with no helmet? no, if you are wearing a helmet you should get some sort of protection bonus, no helmet no bonus, something wrong with that?

I don't think anyone who's asking for Helmet Toggle gives a damn what bonuses the helmets beget, because given the choice they wouldn't wear the helmet at all...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Saying "the game was rushed out" is a play in self-serving ignorance. When did ME1 come out? 2007? ME2 has been in the works for at least two years. Stop saying stupid crap just to justify your criticisms.

A game can be in development for ANY amount of time and still be rushed out before completion...

Modifié par Blk_Mage_Ctype, 19 avril 2010 - 11:10 .