144 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Shandepared wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I think there's enough evidence to suggest that the Heretics were indoctrinated by Sovereign.

No, there is none. They made a choice, they were not indoctrinated. Plus, indoctrination works by altering brain waves and geth do not have brains.

- They worship Reapers as gods
- They engage in Husk-making
- Their manner of thought became alien to the true Geth
- They became drastically less effective after Sovereign died

These are all things seen in the indoctrinated. Also, the Geth don't have brains, but they are sapient and are you seriously saying that a Reaper couldn't mess around with the thought processes of other more primitive machines?

[Bluebruiser]

I doubt that the renegade options will turn out the "correct one." In fact you are in far better position as a Paragon than otherwise. Alliances with potentially devastating allies, advanced technology without losing your morality, stronger intergalactic political and military cohesion, etc.



The factory is only useful for creating reapers, which would require melting down organics. That is not a viable option.

[The Angry One]

Bluebruiser wrote...

The factory is only useful for creating reapers, which would require melting down organics. That is not a viable option.

Well unless you can retool it to take Vorcha.
In fact, see how fast this Vorcha regeneration is and adjust the melting process to make a perpetual motion machine.
In any case the only penalty is one damn ugly Reaper.

[Looper128]

Archereon wrote...

Has been that Paragons have actually been setting themselves up to get royally screwed.


Saving the Rachni?  All the Reapers have to do is send another "oily tone" through space and boom, Reapers have a Rachni army.

Sparing the Heretics?  It backfires and all geth besides legion and other isolated platforms become heretics.

Sparing the Council?  "Ah yes, Reapers."

Destroying the Collector Base?  You dumbarses!

Curing the Genophage?  RAAAAWR, KROGAN SMASH ALL PUNY ALIENZ!




Now that would suck so much for me, a dedicated paragon, but it would be kind of hilarious.

I wont let fear control me!

[Azint]

I would not call it irony until it actually happens.

[The Angry One]

Shandepared wrote...


They could reprogram, but they'd have no need to. After all, if Sovereign could indoctrinate those geth then why not ALL geth when ALL geth share the same mind?

Because they clearly have various hubs where processes gather, like the heretic station.
Sovereign indoctrinates there and it only spreads out so far.

The "heretics" became less effective after Sovereign died because their fleet had been wiped out. They weren't planning on having to fight a portracted campaing; Sovereign was supposed to open the Relay in that battle, remember?

Their main fleet was wiped out, but they still have plenty of ships. That are basically beaten at every turn by Citadel ships after the battle.

[The Angry One]

Shandepared wrote...

The Angry One wrote...


Because they clearly have various hubs where processes gather, like the heretic station.
Sovereign indoctrinates there and it only spreads out so far.

...but he contacted all the geth. The only way to indoctrinate them would be to reprogram. When the heretics decided to leave they were still part of the main geth. Sorry, but your position makes no sense.

You lose.

You assume the only way to indoctrinate is to reprogram.

[Ecael]

Be right back, renaming my The Worst Possible Playthrough for Import in ME3 thread to The Best Possible Playthrough for Import in ME3 thread.



It would make sense if some "good" Paragon options had negative consequences, but I don't think there's been any indication of that happening in Mass Effect 2. It seems that taking the Renegade option always leads to the galaxy being worse off somehow (or the removal of side missions).

[Kaiser Shepard]

The Heretics joined Sovereign/Nazara out of their own free will because he offered them their future in the form of mega-structure (which may or may not be a Reaper body).

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

The Angry One wrote...


- They worship Reapers as gods
- They engage in Husk-making
- Their manner of thought became alien to the true Geth
- They became drastically less effective after Sovereign died

These are all things seen in the indoctrinated. Also, the Geth don't have brains, but they are sapient and are you seriously saying that a Reaper couldn't mess around with the thought processes of other more primitive machines?

sadly.... I kindof see their point.

- religion
- cults killing people for reilgion or becuase god told them so.
- I am sure Atheists feel the same way about creationist
- they lost their prophet leader/god, of course they are less effective. Then ontop of that, they got their butt kicked at the Citadel and everyone else in the galaxy is hunting them down.

But yes, My belief in the geth is the fact that I think the reapers made an convicing arguement as to why the geth should join them. Some took the decision and others did not.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 19 avril 2010 - 09:56 .

[kraidy1117]

Archereon wrote...

Destroying the Collector Base?  You dumbarses!

So you trust TIM? Don't make me laugh.

[inversevideo]

Shandepared wrote...

The fact is the geth had a logical reason to follow Sovereign. 'He' was not a god in the typical sense. Sovereign was a very real being that could be interacted with and studied. Sovereign's existence PROVED that it was more advanced than the geth and that it could provide that same sophistication. Nothing mystical about it at all and no indoctrination necessary.

Unless, you beleive what 'Legion' had to say.
Which was that the reason the 'Heretics' worshipped the 'Old Machines' was due a math error, introduced into their most basic runtimes.

Since Geth are virtually immune to hacking, who would have the ability to introduce a math error in their subroutines?
A reaper? And that does sound a bit like indoctrination. Call it subversion of higher processing ability towards serving reapers.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

inversevideo wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

The fact is the geth had a logical reason to follow Sovereign. 'He' was not a god in the typical sense. Sovereign was a very real being that could be interacted with and studied. Sovereign's existence PROVED that it was more advanced than the geth and that it could provide that same sophistication. Nothing mystical about it at all and no indoctrination necessary.

Unless, you beleive what 'Legion' had to say.
Which was that the reason the 'Heretics' worshipped the 'Old Machines' was due a math error, introduced into their most basic runtimes.

Since Geth are virtually immune to hacking, who would have the ability to introduce a math error in their subroutines?
A reaper? And that does sound a bit like indoctrination. Call it subversion of higher processing ability towards serving reapers.

A math error could also be the equilvant of faith is it not? Creationist and Atheist butt heads all the time. I think it's pretty much the same conflict going on here.

[KOKitten]

I think it would be interesting to see more real consequences of your actions both paragon and renegade.

BDTS is a perfect example. The paragon choice is to save the hostages, allowing Balak to make his escape. The renegade choice is to kill Balak but this causes him to set off the explosion which kills the hostages.

The feel good choice of this mission is to save the hostages. Given the fact that Shepard is Alliance, is it the realistic choice? Not having experience with terrorism negotiation I would have no idea. Considering that Balak is a terrorist with a large grudge against humanity and being allowed to escape gives him free reign to keep on with his terrorist activities it wouldn't necessarily be an "evil" choice for Shepard to sacrifice the lives of three hostages to remove that larger threat.

It would be interesting to find out later on in ME1 or in a later game that Balak, if allowed to escape, had gone ahead with his plans and destroyed a different colony. It would make the choices mean more than just always select top right for Paragon or always select bottom right for Renegade.

I guess that really wouldn't work, though, considering you need to have a certain amount of your Paragon or Renegade meter filled in order to make choices later on in the games.

[Habelo]

amazing that people dont seem to get that the op was joking....

[cronshaw8]

As much as some people would like to see it, there is no way any single (or even any combination of) decision(s) is going to make it impossible for Shepard to defeat the Reapers. What happens to Shepard and the Galaxy afterward though will definitely be influenced by the paragon/renegade choices. That is just BioWare's MO.

[Xaijin]

Archereon wrote...

Has been that Paragons have actually been setting themselves up to get royally screwed.


Saving the Rachni?  All the Reapers have to do is send another "oily tone" through space and boom, Reapers have a Rachni army.

Sparing the Heretics?  It backfires and all geth besides legion and other isolated platforms become heretics.

Sparing the Council?  "Ah yes, Reapers."

Destroying the Collector Base?  You dumbarses!

Curing the Genophage?  RAAAAWR, KROGAN SMASH ALL PUNY ALIENZ!




Now that would suck so much for me, a dedicated paragon, but it would be kind of hilarious.

Simply means more folks for me to kill. Aside from the fact that both races you mentioned understand and haver countered the effects you mentioned.

[Sursion]

That's the great thing about Mass Effect. We have no idea how Mass Effect 3 is going to play out. That's why all the decisions I made we solely based on my opinions. All important choices in my playthroughs have been 100% based on what I would do in real life, and there have been no do-overs for better results.

[Nightwriter]

inversevideo wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

The fact is the geth had a logical reason to follow Sovereign. 'He' was not a god in the typical sense. Sovereign was a very real being that could be interacted with and studied. Sovereign's existence PROVED that it was more advanced than the geth and that it could provide that same sophistication. Nothing mystical about it at all and no indoctrination necessary.

Unless, you beleive what 'Legion' had to say.
Which was that the reason the 'Heretics' worshipped the 'Old Machines' was due a math error, introduced into their most basic runtimes.

Since Geth are virtually immune to hacking, who would have the ability to introduce a math error in their subroutines?
A reaper? And that does sound a bit like indoctrination. Call it subversion of higher processing ability towards serving reapers.

I call it synthetic indoctrination.

The Reapers are manipulative buggers.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Sursion wrote...

That's the great thing about Mass Effect. We have no idea how Mass Effect 3 is going to play out. That's why all the decisions I made we solely based on my opinions. All important choices in my playthroughs have been 100% based on what I would do in real life, and there have been no do-overs for better results.

Agreed, I have one save for all all the deicsions i would have, then subsequent playthroughs are usually just to see how the results will vary.