Aller au contenu

Photo

The greatest irony in Mass Effect...


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
144 réponses à ce sujet

#126
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

No, not isolationism. People, the turians and asari and salarians and humans and everything, need to use their brains to come up with new technology.

The Reapers bet on people being to lazy to think for themselves.

Well then, everyone's should be happy. Humans have proven the ability to think outside the box in new and innovative ways, despite wholescale adaptation of tech-catch up. Fighter carriers, medigel, Arc Projector, the Normandy stealth drive,all are derived from the fruits of reverse-engineering, but human creativity hasn't stalled: human creativity thrives despite that all human education is based on accepting the advancements of others not themselves.

As the Matriarch's concerns have been disproven in relation to humanity, there's no reason to dictate human progress due to concerns that don't apply. Holding Humans to the same standard as Asari or Salarians is racism.

#127
Schroing

Schroing
  • Members
  • 650 messages

Zulu_DFA wrote...

You don't know your weak points before someone hits you at them.

Also, Reapers seem to have never meant for the organics to make that far... There is something bothering about the Vigil, though.


We're past the intended point by now, and at the time of ME1 were also (but not by very much). Regardless, again, we've seen nothing that the Reapers can't contend with.

But don't forget Cerberus also found that mega-gun, that took out the Reaper in the Hawking cluster.


When? I don't remember that. Not that it really matters; taking out one Reaper obviously didn't save them, and it won't/hasn't saved us, either.

Also, again. The Europeans did not invent gunpowder, astrolabia and oceanic sailing ships. But they were the ones to put those "techs" to their ultimate use.

This Green Peace technophobia has only one conclusion in the end of it: people should grow some tails and get back on the trees.


Again; whether or not that's logically true doesn't matter. Bioware is obviously purporting it.

#128
Guest_Shandepared_*

Guest_Shandepared_*
  • Guests
The argument is moot anyway because when Sovereign talked about our civilization developing along the paths they intended for us he wasn't using a metaphor. The Mass Relays all eventually lead to the Citadel. As the nexus of the relay network every civilization that rises uses it as their capital. Thus when the Reapers invade they destroy the leadership, gain information on all settlements, and most importantly, they have the tools to disable the rest of the network. With the network down every system is isolated.



Other than that I doubt the Reapers care what technologies we develop. Mass effect drives and mass accelerator rounds aren't "Reaper tech", they're the natural and most efficient ways to make war and to use element zero.



Our priorities should be: weapons that can penetrate Reaper shields, methods of resisting indoctrination, and the ability to construct our own mass relays and/or the ability to manipulate the Citadel directly without the need of the keepers.

#129
Emerald Rift

Emerald Rift
  • Members
  • 376 messages
i have always chosen the paragon choices in both games. i'm slightly worried about of the consequences especially sparing the rachi (but that seems to have paid off unless bioware messes with it!) but hopefully being a good person will play off.



i kinda regret sparing the council as they still don't be believe about the reapers, im hoping in ME3 they will finally regret ignoring Shepard's warnings!

#130
Zulu_DFA

Zulu_DFA
  • Members
  • 8 217 messages

Schroing wrote...



But don't forget Cerberus also found that mega-gun, that took out the Reaper in the Hawking cluster.

When? I don't remember that. Not that it really matters; taking out one Reaper obviously didn't save them, and it won't/hasn't saved us, either.

TIM tells you that, when he is sending you to the Reaper. Build one such gun for every Reaper and we're saved.


Schroing wrote...

Also, again. The Europeans did not invent gunpowder, astrolabia and oceanic sailing ships. But they were the ones to put those "techs" to their ultimate use.

This Green Peace technophobia has only one conclusion in the end of it: people should grow some tails and get back on the trees.


Again; whether or not that's logically true doesn't matter. Bioware is obviously purporting it.


Listen to yourself: BioWare is purporting something that doesn't matter logically. BioWare are nuts.

Well, there are inconsistencies between ME2 and the original Mass Effect, and it doesn't look good for BioWare. But the "message" you're getting is the "message" you are getting. If your favorite character says something in the game it doesn't mean that it's BioWare's "official position". For example, I take it just as Legion's (Geth's) outlook, which is quite childish and uninformed, since they are a) young race, B) isolationist race, c) machine race.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 avril 2010 - 04:45 .


#131
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

Schroing wrote...

Cerberus is a xeno-nationalist group. The entire Council is based around xeno-nationalism. It's the reason each race has exactly one Ambassador.


Cerberus is a terrorist group based around the idea of Humanity's superiority. The Council is a government based around no such sense of worth; it's simply a "if you contribute, you can help, too" organization, in which the people who help the most are given the biggest roles.

Being a terrorist group and being xeno-nationalist are not mutually exclusive: however, as Cerberus tries to remain hidden and doesn't try and move public opinion and policy through terror, it really doesn't fit the definition of a terrorist group.

The Council, however, fully fits the categorization of a xeno-nationalist grouping. Each species is pressed to unification by having exactly one representative per race, despite however many nations or city states exist per species. The Council itself follows typical national-priority self-interest behavior, including the prioritization of the Council member's interests to the detriment of non-council members, a millenia-long influence racket during which the Asari and Salarians  have only willingly added one (1) new member to the council over millenia despite demanding obedience from numerous associate races of long standing, and plenty of cases of ejection of long-standing members who were challenges to their interests (the Batarians and the Quarians). Their behavior aligns exactly with national grouping behavior.


Against the Rachni, there was ultimately no choice. Against the Krogan, not actually genocide. Against the Humans, again, not actually genocide.

Against the Rachni, they didn't care: the war was long since won and the Rachni impotent before they carried on genocide. Against the Krogan, yes, it is a genocide, however gentle it may be. Against the Humans, the only reason the Turians stopped were because the other Council members stepped in... with implications in ME1that Humans are being set up as counters to the Turians.


And you don't think that the Alliance, combined with the rest of the Council forces are capable of defeating Cerberus in a naval assault? ...Or space naval?
Cerberus might still be able to gain some of the information and technology there, but at least in such a case they wouldn't be doing so exclusively.

By the time the Council could mobilize, decide that sparking a war and invading the Terminus systems was now acceptable, and moved, Cerberus would already have had plenty of time to strip the base of as much as possible and rig it to explode. TIM has certainly made it clear he intends to keep the tech within Humanity, not the Council.


Again; whether that's technically true or not, it's true/going to be true in Bioware's universe that technology made by onself is superior to technology made by another.

There is no 'it's technically true.' It's a fact. And nowhere in ME1 is self-made tech superior to reverse engineering superior tech from others. Quite the opposite: in ME2, all the upgrades you get and make to your ship are technology taken from others. A rifle development from the Blue Suns, a biotic upgrade found from the Eclipse, armor upgrades bought in the stores, every single upgrade you make for your ship: none of these are things you developed yourself. You grew stronger by taking other people's knowledge and advances and incorporating them into your own.

Unless you refused every last scannable tech, weapon, biotic, and ship upgrade in the game and called your results good, the game refutes your point. You can never have used the Widow sniper rifle, never used the hand cannon Mordin gifts you, nothing that you (or, if you want to break the bounds only slightly, Cerberus and the Alliance) haven't developed: everything else is taking the tech from others.

Plenty of characters wax poetic about the moral superiority of self-development, but only after indulging in a life of stolen knowledge.

#132
JamieCOTC

JamieCOTC
  • Members
  • 6 341 messages

Rocket Weazle wrote...

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

The Illusive Sheen might be a Palpatine wannabe, but blowing up that station sure did look like a weird tactical move, eh?

It makes no diference, the new novel and the end of ME2 show that we get data/tech from the Reaper base anyway...


That was always my impression, that Shep got some kind of Reaper data at the end of the game. 

#133
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages
Oh, there's no doubt he got some. It's just a drop in the bucket compared to the gains that could have occured had he kept the base, hence the weight of the choice.



You can't have it both ways. Either the choice is irrelevant, and Shepard (and TIM, by extension, since TIM was getting all EDI's data) have all the necessary data/tech regardless and the whole 'don't give it to TIM' objection is moot, or it matters, in which case what Shepard gets doesn't matter in comparison.

#134
notphrog

notphrog
  • Members
  • 282 messages

Archereon wrote...

Has been that Paragons have actually been setting themselves up to get royally screwed.


Saving the Rachni?  All the Reapers have to do is send another "oily tone" through space and boom, Reapers have a Rachni army.

Sparing the Heretics?  It backfires and all geth besides legion and other isolated platforms become heretics.

Sparing the Council?  "Ah yes, Reapers."

Destroying the Collector Base?  You dumbarses!

Curing the Genophage?  RAAAAWR, KROGAN SMASH ALL PUNY ALIENZ!

Yup, all my renegade will result in surviving and saving the galaxy.

#135
ThisIsMadness91

ThisIsMadness91
  • Members
  • 673 messages

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

 In my canon, Krogan Warlords will ride on the backs of Rachni Brood Warriors into battle against the Reapers. 


This idea is pure ****ing WIN!

Brilliant.

How old are you, kids? Do your parents watch over you when you play Mass Effect?


Uh, it's a joke. We're just having fun.

#136
Zulu_DFA

Zulu_DFA
  • Members
  • 8 217 messages

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

 In my canon, Krogan Warlords will ride on the backs of Rachni Brood Warriors into battle against the Reapers. 


This idea is pure ****ing WIN!

Brilliant.

How old are you, kids? Do your parents watch over you when you play Mass Effect?


Uh, it's a joke. We're just having fun.


ME too, me too.

#137
DuffyMJ

DuffyMJ
  • Members
  • 944 messages
Well the tact here seems to be make gigantic multi-paragraph strawman arguments, and then procede to completely ignore similarly drawn out responses to these arguments with a 2 sentence response, and then procede to make another bloated series of arguments... How "renegade"...

#138
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages
Don't be so hard on yourself, Duffy! You made a strawman argument in just two sentences, with no response at all!

#139
DuffyMJ

DuffyMJ
  • Members
  • 944 messages
There's a major difference between an argument and a description.

#140
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages
That your post was neither?



Wait, that's a similarity...

#141
ThisIsMadness91

ThisIsMadness91
  • Members
  • 673 messages

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME too, me too.


Ah, my bad. I've never been good at being able to tell when someone's joking onlineImage IPB.

#142
shyzny

shyzny
  • Members
  • 85 messages
this thread is why they need to take away the idea of "paragon" and "renegade" and just make you make decisions.

#143
FlintlockJazz

FlintlockJazz
  • Members
  • 2 710 messages
The greatest iron in ME2?



Image IPB

#144
Steel Dancer

Steel Dancer
  • Members
  • 962 messages

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The greatest iron in ME2?

Image IPB


Hot, but nothing I'd get steamed up over.

#145
DuffyMJ

DuffyMJ
  • Members
  • 944 messages

Dean_the_Young wrote...

That your post was neither?

Wait, that's a similarity...


Interesting 180...