139 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

bad writing 101: ignore common sense in order to force a "interesting" story.

note "interesting" is a relative term and means only slightly different then BSG in this case.

[DiTHmaphacks]

Its perfectly possible to get a weak immune system in 300 years.Since its almost humanlike years for a quarian we can assume that in 300 years you can get at least 6th generation childs.So since they dont get exposed in germs to get antibodies and get stronger.And since every passing generation the mother of a Quarian will give them even more antibodies in 6 generations they can get sick.Even if u compare it to completely human germ and immune system behavior.Humans die even in 2010 from simple cold even if they have been infected by it a dozen times in their life.

[cos1ne]

Shandepared wrote...

The same Council races that kicked them off the Citadel in their greatest hour of need?

They just destroyed them politically, after all the Council would never condone genocide of an entire species, .

Nu-Nu wrote...

They've lost adaptability to alien bacteria
which is not part of their natural immune/adapt system without these
friendly bacteria.

If the bacteria they so desperately
needed were that rare, how is it they were able to go suitless on their dozens
of colonies?

Nibroc17 wrote...

"Quarian immune systems have always been
comparatively weak, as pathogenic microbes were comparatively rare in
their homeworld's biosphere"
Quote from Mass Effect Wiki on Quarians.
so that kinda nulls your argument.

Not at all, though
rare, pathogenic microbes were hardly absent, all it takes is one
particularly nasty germ to decimate a people and force their immune systems to compensate or go extinct. See HIV for example.

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

yup there weren't even any
insectoid life on the Quarian homeworld, So one of the primary carrier
of diseases are lost as well.

And as I've stated before
in my essay of the top ten earth diseases, insects only carry one of
them.

tanarri23 wrote...

A good enough explanation would be that
quarians always wore the suits when interacting with aliens or visiting
other planets, because their immune systems' response to contaminants
was genetically pre-programmed rather than learned, non-adaptable and
prone to anaphylactic shock when exposed to unfamiliar contaminants.
Nothing some genetic therapy couldn't fix, but...anyway, the canon is
pretty much the opposite, so let's try something else.

Maybe it
wasn't originally about germs or allergies. Most quarian ships are old,
scavenged, refitted and generally not in the best of shapes, so when a
catastrophic failure can happen anytime it would make sense to wear an
environmental suit that makes sure you survive that toxic air, extreme
temperature or exposure to vacuum for long enough for another ship to
rescue you. A few ship failures that kill everyone on board, and the
already decimated species would get paranoid enough to wear the suits
full-time. After that, it doesn't take any genetic mutation to mess up
the immune system - if a child is put into a protective bubble the
moment it's born, it will survive if air processing fails...but it won't
be exposed to contaminants enough for its immune system to learn what's
dangerous and what's not, and will end up allergic to pretty much
everything. And since reproduction's not a small risk for adults who are
already allergic to everything, guess the quarians just had to pick the
lesser of two evils.

Quarians didn't wear helmets on Haestrom, so did they all go into shock there?

Liveships must be kept in pristine condition for the flotilla to survive. If they can be kept you can assume some quarians might have "birthships". You can still be exposed to disease via vaccinations.

skl wrote...

Ok, if I squint hard I can ignore the Quarian
immune system most of the time. But what bothers me to no end is all
the "dextro-DNA" talk. I know I'm just being picky, I realize they meant
the amino acids, but can we please not involve DNA? The genetic code
would be exactly the same for both stereoisomers of an aa - therefore NO
difference in DNA. It's just that, on a given world, like the Quarian
home world, at some point R-amino acids became the dominant form, so
they were predominantly used in protein synthesis in most life forms
there...

Exactly, maybe I should
have devoted a paragraph to explaining dextro-dna...ah well I'll save
it for when I do "Turians don't make any
sense!"

Most people are completely unaware that many foods that
we eat actually contain dextro-amino acids. Also Tali and Garrus would
be able to eat tomatos, plums, sauerkraut, orange juice, cucumbers and
papayas with little or no problems at all. Since the only thing that
affects their diet are the proteins and not anything else in that.

DiTHmaphacks wrote...

Its perfectly possible to get a weak
immune system in 300 years.Since its almost humanlike years for a
quarian we can assume that in 300 years you can get at least 6th
generation childs.So since they dont get exposed in germs to get
antibodies and get stronger.And since every passing generation the
mother of a Quarian will give them even more antibodies in 6 generations
they can get sick.Even if u compare it to completely human germ and
immune system behavior.Humans die even in 2010 from simple cold even if
they have been infected by it a dozen times in their life.

IF QUARIANS ARE AS ADVANCED AS WE ARE LED TO BELIEVE THEY CAN MAKE VACCINES!!!

Also...immune systems do not work that way!

[Nu-Nu]

cos1ne wrote...

Nu-Nu wrote...

They've lost adaptability to alien bacteria
which is not part of their natural immune/adapt system without these
friendly bacteria.

If the bacteria they so desperately
needed were that rare, how is it they were able to go suitless on their dozens
of colonies?

They're rare, just means they're diffucult to cultivate but the Quarians still somehow manage to get in contact with them to evolve and create a symbiosis with these bacteria.  The bacteria gave them an advantage and help them adapt to the alien bacteria on these colonies.  They were probaly also boosting their immune system with herbs.  They were able to stay because they've adapted to those bacteria on those planets, thanks to the friendly bacteria for boosting their defense.  It does take them a while to adapt to these new colonies.

A human doesn't have to live in a perfect sterile environment to have poor immune system but have nothing wrong with them physically.  They just need to live in an environment that's too clean when they were kids.  Kids adapt better to bacteria then adults so if you don't get the immunity when your body is stronger, it'll be much harder in adult life. 

There have been studies shown that mother's who are too vigourous in cleaning will badly effect their kids immunity to germs and dust, and that doesn't have to happen over generations.

Quarians are living in a sterile environment for 300 years which makes the problem much worse and they have a weak immune system as it is.

They obviously need constant contact with viruses to adapt to it or they lose the antibiotics/symbiosis to alien bacteria. 

[Nostradamoose]

Yea, Quarians don't make sense, I support you on this claim, this whole lost of immune system in 300 years is complete bollocks.

[Nu-Nu]

They haven't lost it completely, they can still survive small infections. Their body is still able to adapt to their natural homeworld bacteria because they have evolve to adapt to that, their dna is made for it, not to other bacteria. They just can't get these rare bacteria to boost their defense to alien bacteria now that they live on fotillia.

[Sigma Tauri]

skl wrote...
The genetic code would be exactly the same for both stereoisomers of an aa - therefore NO difference in DNA.

I just realized.

That's an assumption.

Exactly, maybe I should
have devoted a paragraph to explaining
dextro-dna...ah well I'll save
it for when I do "Turians don't make
any
sense!"

Most people are completely unaware that many
foods that
we eat actually contain dextro-amino acids. Also Tali and
Garrus would
be able to eat tomatos, plums, sauerkraut, orange
juice, cucumbers and
papayas with little or no problems at all.
Since the only thing that
affects their diet are the proteins and
not anything else in that.

The foods you listed aren't devoid of proteins. Those foods could have substances that act as poisons or antigens to alien life.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 21 avril 2010 - 03:47 .

[BeresaadSoldier]

Your argument has flaws from a medical standpoint. The assumption that genetics/DNA/mutations play a huge role in immune system formation wrong. While those do have a role, it's a minor one. In humans it's antibodies and various types of immune cells such as macrophages/t cells/natural killer cells etc that make the difference between a weak and a strong immune system. In quarians it might be different, and 300 years of exposure to sterile environments and eating nutrient paste definitely doesn't help their already weak immune system (if you remember a comment in ME2 about Quarians having a weak immune system to begin with). You're talking about Quarians as species, but the more correct viewpoint is that each Quarian has a weak immune system because of the said circumstances that they were born in and forced to live in. There might be genetic traits, but these are not mentioned in the game and therefore it's just speculation.



About vaccines: yeah, while a valid point, vaccination is a pretty invasive method since vaccines have to be delivered into the blood and can't be ingested due to metabolic issues. So naturally, infection from the wound is a pretty big risk, especially to an already weak immune system.



About the "allergies" it really depends how many species co-existed along with the Quarians. AIDS originally developed in the chimps and only later started infecting humans. So if there weren't many species on their homeworld that diseases could cross between, that's another predisposition to a weak immune system.



Quarians being the main pollinators of their homeworld doesn't mean they'd have stronger immune systems. No efficient polinators = less genetic diversity among plants = less biodiversity in general = less exposure to harmful organisms. Quarians would only be immune to the particular flora they'd interact with. That doesn't give them immunity to anything else, which is why it can still be classified as a weak immune system. For example, people that have survived malaria and developed some kind of immunity can still get killed by tuberculosis.



"Quarians actually have a highly adaptive immune system and appear to only suffer from autoimmune disorders"

You forget that the possible worlds that Quarians might want to make their homeworld are not many. And I bet each of them had been carefully evaluated with all kinds of samples taken long before any quarian without environment suit walked on it. So your hyper-adaptive immune system argument fails there. Nowhere is it mentioned that a Quarian would survive on -any- world without their environment suit.



And, since this is all hypothetical, there will always be arguments for and against unless an official statement is released.

[The Governator]

cos1ne wrote...

The Governator wrote...

Well, Tali does say that most
viruses on their planet had some benefit to them.  I think of it like
Montgomery Burns who had 'everything'.  But, every disease and ailment
he had was in perfect balance to counteract all the others.  That's
Quarian biology for you.

You mean this?

Probably.  I will have to check it when I get home from work.  Funny stuff, though!

[Mixon]

Other space, other galaxy, other solar system, whatever but other... so thats why other evolution speed, way, etc etc etc... i think its a realy big mistake to compare alien race evolution or whatever els with Earth things... imho.

about evolution some short:

Initially evolution depends on the Sun of that system in which there was a native planet, speeds of rotation of the planet and round the sun... Such data is known to nobody. Evolution definitions join all.

So... 

Modifié par Mixon, 21 avril 2010 - 04:40 .

[Lemonwizard]

Vaenier wrote...

bad writing 101: ignore common sense in order to force a "interesting" story.
note "interesting" is a relative term and means only slightly different then BSG in this case.

This happens rampantly throughout all fiction, in both bad writing and good writing. It's called willing suspension of disbelief. Letting details get in the way can ruin almost any story if you're really looking for it. This detail, while clearly BS, doesn't even come close to ruining the story.

[Solomen]

Nostradamoose wrote...

Yea, Quarians don't make sense, I support you on this claim, this whole lost of immune system in 300 years is complete bollocks.

Humans can lose theirs in less time

[Solomen]

monkeycamoran wrote...

skl wrote...
The genetic code would be exactly the same for both stereoisomers of an aa - therefore NO difference in DNA.

I just realized.

That's an assumption.

Exactly, maybe I should
have devoted a paragraph to explaining
dextro-dna...ah well I'll save
it for when I do "Turians don't make
any
sense!"

Most people are completely unaware that many
foods that
we eat actually contain dextro-amino acids. Also Tali and
Garrus would
be able to eat tomatos, plums, sauerkraut, orange
juice, cucumbers and
papayas with little or no problems at all.
Since the only thing that
affects their diet are the proteins and
not anything else in that.

The foods you listed aren't devoid of proteins. Those foods could have substances that act as poisons or antigens to alien life.

Also forgot to take into account L-sugars and harmful reactions to D-sugars common n the terran biosphere

[MrNose]

We don't have a detailed knowledge of Quarian biology, therefore any argument you make about it being rediculous requires you to assume details that arent' necessarily there.

[curly haired boy]

first

you can't vaccinate if you don't have an immune system

it just doesn't work

second

as far as we know, EVERY animal that eats has a crapton of bacteria and other wonderful organisms in their gut. digestion's impossible without it. sterilization = starvation

but hell, vanguard charge goes through solid objects. quarians are far from the most implausible thing in the ME universe

[Privateerkev]

cos1ne wrote...

Of course the codexes aren't necessarily "correct" but
when our character gets new information, like Zaaed founding the Blue
Suns, we update the codex. So we have to assume that the information in
the codex is correct until it is altered by new information, otherwise
what's even the point of having the thing.

Your character starts off in ME2 knowing far more about reapers, sovereign, and the citidel battle than the codexes. As you gain more info in-game, those codexes never update. Ever. So, to me, using the codexes to make wide-spanning assumptions about anything major in the game is problematic. They are there to showcase "common knowledge." Something to get new players up to speed.

cos1ne wrote...

I posit that quarians have only been in their suits for a maximum of
200-250 years, and although that's time enough for sweeping cultural
change, I still don't think they'd wear their helmets all the time if
they could help it.

I'm leaning even more towards culture the more I think about it. There was probably a real need for it. Their society adapted to it. It's hard to shake. And yes 200-250 years is more than enough time for culture to change. This happens all the time throughout our own history. Just look at summer break in the US being a throwback to when kids needed to help on the farm. Very few kids need to go help on the farm these days. But summer break persists. It has become part of our culture.

I have a feeling that if aliens looked down on our planet, they would be pretty confused by some of the things we do...

I again want to say you get some major kudos in my book for writing a major thought-piece and engaging with the rest of us over it. It's refreshing to read something other that the usual "what is your favorite *insert here* threads."

[GOYAFIDO]

cos1ne wrote...

...snipped...

IN CONCLUSION

So to summarize everything that we know about quarians:

Fifteen generations have passed since the geth wars, not enough time for evolutionary change.

Quarian population is too large and genetically diverse for such drastic mutations in their immune systems to occur.

It's impossible to have a completely sterile environment, and the first few generations of quarians would have had no need to do this at all.

Even if quarian cultural norms forces them to wear environment suits. They still would not wear them at all times.

Quarians actually have a highly adaptive immune system and appear to only suffer from autoimmune disorders.

The evolution of quarians based on their own environment as explained by Bioware is contrary to how evolution would actually take place in a world such as Rannoch.

Therefore I can say with utmost certainty that in light of all the evidence presented.

QUARIANS MAKE NO SENSE!!!

/nods

Not sure I agree with everything the OP says but it's a conversation starter to be sure.

Unless you basically have no immune system vaccinations should help.  We have programs to give shots to children so why wouldn't the quarians?  If one's species IS involved with pollination and seed-scattering, that one WOULD have less reactive allergies.  If quarian biology is indeed that much different, then should not many of the ills that trouble other species simply be unable to interact with them?

Isn't it odd that more than two thousand years have passed since the quarians became a citadel race and virtually all knowledge of their appearance and physiology has disappeared as far as the PC is concerned?

Heck, we all know that once something hits the interwebz it can't be recalled.

I sure there is a quarian centerfold or two in fornax.

Encyclopedia Citadelica anyone?
I mean really... 

Modifié par GOYAFIDO, 21 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[Solomen]

Quarians are afraid to take off their suits. "I could die without a helmet in my own home!" pretty much sums it up. They have bad immune systems, but not nearly as bad as they think they do.

[cos1ne]

Nu-Nu wrote...
They're rare, just means they're diffucult to cultivate but the Quarians still somehow manage to get in contact with them to evolve and create a symbiosis with these bacteria.  The bacteria gave them an advantage and help them adapt to the alien bacteria on these colonies.  They were probaly also boosting their immune system with herbs.  They were able to stay because they've adapted to those bacteria on those planets, thanks to the friendly bacteria for boosting their defense.  It does take them a while to adapt to these new colonies.

Quarians are living in a sterile environment for 300 years which makes the problem much worse and they have a weak immune system as it is.

They obviously need constant contact with viruses to adapt to it or they lose the antibiotics/symbiosis to alien bacteria. 

Why would quarians voluntarily live in a sterile environment, knowing the havoc it wreaks on the immune system? The first generation of quarians did not have this limitation, and we have to assume that quarians are at least as knowlegable as us, and we can safely assume they know far more then us, simply because they had access to the galaxy's best science. And also you can't assume they were bolstering their immune systems with anything from the home planet since it's never been stated they need anything from Rannoch to colonize/live elsewhere.

In fact all throughout the story we are to believe that returning to Rannoch is a quixotic dream. Similar to the belief among early Zionists that the jewish people would return and have their own state in Israel. So it's more of a yearning to return rather then a necessity. It's their psychology that makes them want to return not their physiology.

monkeycamoran wrote...

The foods you listed aren't
devoid of proteins. Those foods could have substances that act as
poisons or antigens to alien life.

You're quite
right, I meant that she could eat those foods
if we're only basing it on the fact she can't digest levo-amino acids.
After all they are pretty much devoid of protein, as all have less then
1g in 100 grams....or the weight of half a dime over the weight of a
chocolate bar.

Solomen wrote...

Humans can lose theirs in less time ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Individuals can but several million at about the
same time?

MrNose wrote...

We don't have a detailed knowledge of
Quarian biology, therefore any argument you make about it being
rediculous requires you to assume details that arent' necessarily
there.

I can only use what
Bioware has given me, and I'm just showing them the holes that they need
to fill for the quarians to make sense.

curly haired boy wrote...

first

you can't vaccinate
if you don't have an immune system

it just doesn't work

second

as
far as we know, EVERY animal that eats has a crapton of bacteria and
other wonderful organisms in their gut. digestion's impossible without
it. sterilization = starvation

First quarians do have
an immune system, Tali reference it when she says, "if a stray bit of
bacteria could kill us we'd all be dead by now".

Second that's
not entirely true, humans require the bacteria because we cannot break
down the food we eat into chemicals our bodies absorb, but there are
other simpler creatures who can absorb food without the aid of bacteria.

BeresaadSoldier wrote...

About vaccines: yeah, while a
valid point, vaccination is a pretty invasive method since vaccines have
to be delivered into the blood and can't be ingested due to metabolic
issues. So naturally, infection from the wound is a pretty big risk,
especially to an already weak immune system.

Quarians being the
main pollinators of their homeworld doesn't mean they'd have stronger
immune systems. No efficient polinators = less genetic diversity among
plants = less biodiversity in general = less exposure to harmful
organisms. Quarians would only be immune to the particular flora they'd
interact with. That doesn't give them immunity to anything else, which
is why it can still be classified as a weak immune system. For example,
people that have survived malaria and developed some kind of immunity
can still get killed by tuberculosis.

"Quarians actually have a
highly adaptive immune system and appear to only suffer from autoimmune
disorders"
You forget that the possible worlds that Quarians might
want to make their homeworld are not many. And I bet each of them had
been carefully evaluated with all kinds of samples taken long before any
quarian without environment suit walked on it. So your hyper-adaptive
immune system argument fails there. Nowhere is it mentioned that a
Quarian would survive on -any- world without their environment suit.

And,
since this is all hypothetical, there will always be arguments for and
against unless an official statement is released.

The
first generation quarians wouldn't have to worry about deadly weakened
immune systems and they would have brought their germs onto the ships.
Intelligent quarians wouldn't keep their ships hospital clean because
they would know that some germs are necessary to maintain a healthy
immune system. Even in a species that has a weaker immune system.

No
where does it say quarians were the major pollinator on their world,
unless they were the only "large animals" and in fact the way technology
advances if they were the major pollinator then their entire ecosystem
would probably collapse as they became civilized. Even though
pollinating plants are the majority of plants here on earth, on another
world this does not have to be the case. Flowering plants didn't exist
until the Triassic period and if you look at earth's history there was
plenty of genetic diversity before the Triassic. The Cambrian period
alone had over 100 separate phyla of creatures.

Quarians
could survive on Haestrom without their environment suits.....

Also on the topic of vaccines this is directly from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) website:

An infant's immune system is more than ready to respond to the
very small number of weakened and killed antigens in vaccines. Babies
have the capacity to respond to foreign antigens in vaccines. Babies
have the capacity to respond to foreign antigens even before they are
born. The human immune system has evolved since organisms began living
on Earth and represent a culmination of the "best" of this experience.
Just as babies are born with a full-length digestive system that simply
stretches as the baby grows, they also are born with a well developed
immune system that can produce a variety of needed antibodies. However,
infants lack the memory cells trained to defend against specific
diseases. Because of this, they are particularly susceptible to diseases
such as diphtheria, whooping cough, polio, tetanus, hepatitis B, and
Hib. This is an important reason why the recommended childhood
vaccination schedule begins so early--to prevent the diseases that
children are susceptible to at such a young age.

Human infants are born with a "basic" immune system that can tackle pretty much anything, however there are a handful of bugs they need to experience before they can take on.

Vaccines are actually very safe, despite implications to the
contrary in many anti-vaccine publications (which sometimes contain the
number of reports received by VAERS, and allow the reader to infer that
all of them represent genuine vaccine side-effects). Most vaccine
adverse events are minor and temporary, such as a sore arm or mild
fever. These can often be controlled by taking acetaminophen before or
after vaccination. More serious adverse events occur rarely (on the
order of one per thousands to one per millions of doses), and some are
so rare that risk cannot be accurately assessed. As for vaccines causing
death, again so few deaths can plausibly be attributed to vaccines that
it is hard to assess the risk statistically. Of all deaths reported to
VAERS between 1990 and 1992, only one is believed to be even possibly
associated with a vaccine. Each death reported to VAERS is thoroughly
examined to ensure that it is not related to a new vaccine-related
problem, but little or no evidence suggests that vaccines have
contributed to any of the reported deaths. The Institute of Medicine in
its 1994 report states that the risk of death from vaccines is
"extraordinarily low."

I believe quarians even with weakened immune systems would accept a one in thousands chance of serious vaccine side effects (not necessarily death) over a lifetime of being trapped in a suit.

Privateerkev wrote...
I again want to say you get some major
kudos in my book for writing a major thought-piece and engaging with the
rest of us over it. It's refreshing to read something other that the
usual "what is your favorite *insert here* threads."

Thanks
kev, I had a lot of fun writing this and I'm having a lot of fun
discussing this. I think soon I may turn this
into a series of topics along this style. Right now I've created a poll
to see what my fans would like to see me check up on.

You can find the poll here.

Modifié par cos1ne, 21 avril 2010 - 07:01 .

[smudboy]

@cos1ne
Please tell me you're doing a dissertation for an arts degree.   Please.  I barely have enough time to argue with people about story writing on here, to imagine someone like you to get all sciencey.  Hopefully, BioWare will pay attention and create a physics/biologist/chemist character to explain this stuff, or at least make it part of the narrative or codex.  It would greatly help story telling if even a fraction of some of this science improves suspension of disbelief.

[Privateerkev]

cos1ne wrote...

Thanks
kev, I had a lot of fun writing this and I'm having a lot of fun
discussing this. I think soon I may turn this
into a series of topics along this style. Right now I've created a poll
to see what my fans would like to see me check up on.

You can find the poll here.

I wish I knew more about viruses and immune systems so I could make more contributions than "culture". I worked on a masters in History so discussions of culture are more my strong point. Until recently I lived with someone who got her MA is molecular evolution and I wish I could pick her brain right now. I've asorbed enough from her to be dangerous but not enough to be clever...

As for your poll, I picked reapers. The one I am most interested in will probably be the hardest to work on since BW has done their best to keep that subject a mystery. And the most likely subject to throw us all for a loop. There is a good chance that everything we know about reapers now to end up being quite wrong in the end. So, if you do pick that one, good luck...

[cronshaw8]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

bad writing 101: ignore common sense in order to force a "interesting" story.
note "interesting" is a relative term and means only slightly different then BSG in this case.

This happens rampantly throughout all fiction, in both bad writing and good writing. It's called willing suspension of disbelief. Letting details get in the way can ruin almost any story if you're really looking for it. This detail, while clearly BS, doesn't even come close to ruining the story.

no, No!, NO! Your good natured common sense will not do here Lemonwizard. It will not do at all!

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

To even assume we know all the details of quarians is like assuming we know everything about the quarians body, hell, we don't even know what organs they have inside, or what they even look like. This is all based on assumptions and speculations based on human biology.

Until we have an dissection of quarian biology in-game (highly doubt), we're missing major pieces of the puzzle, that means we will be unable to solve this even remotely to the point where most people agree on how it is possible.

Also assuming that quarians = humans is an assumption. Period. Short of anyone being handed an book on every little detail about an quarian's body and biology, most people are making assumptions based on human physiology. For all you know, they could have no liver, 4 hearts and 4 kidneys. All of these random biology variables just from how the inner's are organized could prove vital to how their immune system works.

Comparing it to other species, they already are at an dis-advantage. It is clearly stated they had an weaker immune system then any other species even back then. That is "canon." For an quarian, that is just how it is.

They had the equivilant of an immune system of an cancer patient who had to go get chemo-therapy god knows how many times. That is the best you can possibly do with an human-quarian analogy and that is just giving you an rough idea of what an quarian's immune system is like, that is all. They have never had an better immune system for whatever enviormental reason. They have only gotten worse since their defeat by the geth.

Nit-picking it apart looking for problems rarely ever shows solutions. If anyone really wanted to try to figure out why quarians are like this, and how it can happen in 6-15 generations or how it has gotten even worse from it's weakened state, then be my guess. My suggestion - Start looking at the end result and try to get there, not point out everything that is not it. Either way, your going to be making assumptions with almost no evidence to back your theory up but, hey, I think there is an reasonably chance you could be on target given the data on the quarians so far and my best guess at this point is that it is an combination of enviormental and biological reasons then any one factor alone.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 21 avril 2010 - 10:11 .

[skl]

monkeycamoran wrote...

skl wrote...
The genetic code would be exactly the same for both stereoisomers of an aa - therefore NO difference in DNA.

I just realized.

That's an assumption.

Exactly, maybe I should
have devoted a paragraph to explaining
dextro-dna...ah well I'll save
it for when I do "Turians don't make
any
sense!"

Most people are completely unaware that many
foods that
we eat actually contain dextro-amino acids. Also Tali and
Garrus would
be able to eat tomatos, plums, sauerkraut, orange
juice, cucumbers and
papayas with little or no problems at all.
Since the only thing that
affects their diet are the proteins and
not anything else in that.

The foods you listed aren't devoid of proteins. Those foods could have substances that act as poisons or antigens to alien life.

You are right; I'm sorry. I did some digging, and it appears that L-amino
acids are chemically related to D-sugars in biochemical processes, and the nature of that relationship makes it unlikiely to have an L-amino acid/ L-sugar based biochemistry (the same goes for D-amino acid/ D-sugar). However, life based on D-amino acids and L-sugars should be viable (just not on earth, which was the point). So, technically, our DNA and that of Quarians and Turians would be different in its spatial conformation - although I still think the code itself would be the same. And that bartender should have said "levo-DNA". 

[Nostradamoose]

Solomen wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

Yea, Quarians don't make sense, I support you on this claim, this whole lost of immune system in 300 years is complete bollocks.

Humans can lose theirs in less time

Does not add up. What about those Quarians on Asari planets or salarian Colonies that stayed there. They can't just have lost their immune system that easily. Neither could they have all been kicked out. It simply does not add up.

As for how humans lose quickly their immune system and become allergic to everything... People simply used to die before we could realise they were allergic. And hell, some genes that made caucasians more resistant to small pox are still in the gene pool. I mean, unless the Quarians picked up all the sickly individuals and left all the strongest one on their homeworld, there is no way they would be forced to be suited up for the rest of their lifes...