62 réponses à ce sujet

[implodinggoat]

Athenau wrote...

Also, I think it's a bit of a cop out game design-wise to have an ability (charge) that's there specifically to compensate for the artificially crippled range of the shotguns.  It would be better just to give shotguns better range in the first place so you don't have to be point blank to use them effectively.

I think part of the reason for the short range on shotguns is because a number of enemies use them and if the range on their shotguns was greater they would be really overpowering since the shotguns are a lot more powerful in ME2 than they were in ME1.  If for example the enemies were wielding Eviscerator shotties instead of Katana shotties even that minor increase in range would mean they could kill you in one or two shots as soon as they got into close range.  

I personally find the Eviscerator to have all the range I need on a shotgun since I only use my shotgun at very close range anyway.  That said, a shotgun with reduced damage; but much greater range would be a nice addition to the game particulary for your squad.  Maybe something like a shotgun firing a single slug as opposed to shot, I'm thinking something with accuracy on par with the Carnifex; but with a much lower rate of fire and a lot more damage.

[implodinggoat]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Soldier is just a lazy mans Vangaurd.

Too true my bretheren. If you want an ability that allows the game to play itself for you, hit up a Soldier. If you want aggressive in-your-face fighting, hit up a Vanguard.

How exactly does the class which requires precise aiming "play itself for you" more than the class that essentially entails press Y, pull right trigger, press B (if necessary), run away, repeat process?  The Vanguard is fun; but its hardly demanding of your intellect or your aim.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 20 avril 2010 - 10:42 .

[FoFoZem]

Isn't the Soldier also a "press Y, pull right trigger, press B (if necessary), run away, repeat process" class?

[Tlazolteotl]

gmartin40 wrote...

FoFoZem wrote...

Isn't the Soldier also a "press Y, pull right trigger, press B (if necessary), run away, repeat process" class?

Soldier was the second class I made for ME1. I have to transfer it to ME2. It's more difficult than most put it.

Oh yeah ... I find soldier impossible.
Switching weapons without hotkeys is so horrendously annoying I can't make myself play soldier again.

[Athenau]

Having one button for cover AND sprint is even worse than the lack of weapon hotkeys. The unnecessarily gimped PC controls are SOOOO annoying. Seriously Bioware, you got this right the first time around. Why would you REMOVE features from your perfect ME1 port?

[Heart Collector]

cruc1al wrote...

Heart Collector wrote...

Soldier if you're more into typical shooter playstyle. Vanguard if you like biotic charge. Oh and I love charging unprotected, pulled ymirs... Just watching them fly gives me warm fuzzy feelings inside!

Lolwut you can do that?! I have to try that out.

I was pretty surprised to see it happen myself (I have heavy charge BTW and was playing on Normal difficulty)! I noticed it on Kasumi's mission for the first time, and was like

Modifié par Heart Collector, 21 avril 2010 - 11:36 .

[nihilreich]

implodinggoat wrote...

How exactly does the class which requires precise aiming "play itself for you" more than the class that essentially entails press Y, pull right trigger, press B (if necessary), run away, repeat process?  The Vanguard is fun; but its hardly demanding of your intellect or your aim.

It's funny how everyone always says that, but when someone points that with Shockwave, Pull and Reave/Energy Drain the Vanguard is also capable of pretty tactical power usage AND charging, along come people who insist that 'if you're not charging whenever you see an enemy, you're doing it wrong.'

I'd recommend Vanguard because it's a complete game changer. Sentinels for example may be more powerful and easier to play but being a Vanguard simply allows you to experience the most fun and dynamic gameplay this game has to offer.

Having one button for cover AND sprint is even worse than the lack of weapon hotkeys. The unnecessarily gimped PC controls are SOOOO annoying. Seriously Bioware, you got this right the first time around. Why would you REMOVE features from your perfect ME1 port?

I kinda remember ME1 having no cover button, essentially making Shepard stick to cover whenever he could and causing some pretty idiotic deaths. Regardless, if you can't get used to it after playing for half an hour, you're doing something wrong.

Modifié par nihilreich, 21 avril 2010 - 12:39 .

[Athenau]

I kinda remember ME1 having no cover button, essentially making Shepard stick to cover whenever he could and causing some pretty idiotic deaths. Regardless, if you can't get used to it after playing for half an hour, you're doing something wrong.

I hardly ever used cover in the first game, crouch was enough. Regardless, I shouldn't have to "get used" to something that's stupid, your apologetics notwithstanding, especially when it's a _regression_ from the previous game (no weapon hotkeys).

[nihilreich]

You always have to get used to new controls. Holding a key to sprint to cover and then tapping it to take cover is hardly stupid, it's a simple and effective way of giving player control over taking cover (as opposed to ME1's way of taking cover whenever you're in the proximity of a wall). I have it mapped to E after ME1 and it took me maybe 15 minutes to go from 'sprint and use on the same key? that's stupid' to 'hey, it's actually pretty convenient'.



Not arguing about the weapon hotkeys.

[Alamar2078]

Obviously a lot of things depend on how you want to play:



Soldier advantages:

-- You've can have lots of good ammo powers so you don't have to "waste" slots with squadmates taking ammo powers

-- You can use any weapon in the game

-- Your "spam power" [AR] is one of the most flexible powers in the game

-- You can take the team power of your choice and don't "have" to take anything

-- Very flexible in what squadmates you can take and how they're built



Vanguard advantages:

-- High risk / high reward playstyle ... definitely and edge of the seat class





Soldier disadvantages:

-- You get bogged down in a lot of fights. If you're not patient you may be killed as often as a decent Vanguard because you try to end fights too soon.



Vanguard disadvantages:

-- Limited mid to long range options.

-- Often you're "forced" to take Reave or similar

-- Not as flexible in taking along the squadmates you'd rather have [need ammo powers]

[sonsonthebia07]

implodinggoat wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Soldier is just a lazy mans Vangaurd.

Too true my bretheren. If you want an ability that allows the game to play itself for you, hit up a Soldier. If you want aggressive in-your-face fighting, hit up a Vanguard.

How exactly does the class which requires precise aiming "play itself for you" more than the class that essentially entails press Y, pull right trigger, press B (if necessary), run away, repeat process?  The Vanguard is fun; but its hardly demanding of your intellect or your aim.

Bit of exaggeration on my part really, I just find Adrenaline Rush to be over-powered in this game, especially with the inclusion of the 50% damage reduction from Hardened. "Precise aiming" with what, a 70% slowdown? If you can't hit a target with a headshot at that speed, you should probably reconsider playing the game at all. The Revenant does not require "precise aiming", just putting it out there, and a lot of Soldiers are heavy on the AR. The Soldier is still fun to play, I just personally do not think it holds a candle to a Vanguard's game play. And, the amount of running away you do depends on how aggressive you play it - if you charge 3+ enemies on NG+ insanity,  you better be ready for it.

Also, Charge can be used defensively rather than offensively. It is excellent for knocking away Krogans and other enemies that attempt to flank you. You can play a less aggressive Vanguard and choose Sniper Rifle Training/AR Training, and use Charge defensively if you wish.

Modifié par sonsonthebia07, 21 avril 2010 - 05:45 .

[Athenau]

You always have to get used to new controls. Holding a key to sprint to cover and then tapping it to take cover is hardly stupid, it's a simple and effective way of giving player control over taking cover (as opposed to ME1's way of taking cover whenever you're in the proximity of a wall). I have it mapped to E after ME1 and it took me maybe 15 minutes to go from 'sprint and use on the same key? that's stupid' to 'hey, it's actually pretty convenient'.

It's stupid when you have a control interface (KB/M) with a practically unlimited amount of keys. It's not like I'm asking for much here, it's _one_ extra key that would save an immense amount of aggravation on the part of the player. Now on any map with a lot of cover spots you have to aim your sprint just right or you'll take cover in some awkward location and die. Poor design.

[BeresaadSoldier]

No soldier can do this. Watch first 30 sec. Or this. Or this.

[Hahren]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Obviously a lot of things depend on how you want to play:

Soldier advantages:
-- You've can have lots of good ammo powers so you don't have to "waste" slots with squadmates taking ammo powers
-- You can use any weapon in the game
-- Your "spam power" [AR] is one of the most flexible powers in the game
-- You can take the team power of your choice and don't "have" to take anything
-- Very flexible in what squadmates you can take and how they're built

Vanguard advantages:
-- High risk / high reward playstyle ... definitely and edge of the seat class


Soldier disadvantages:
-- You get bogged down in a lot of fights. If you're not patient you may be killed as often as a decent Vanguard because you try to end fights too soon.

Vanguard disadvantages:
-- Limited mid to long range options.
-- Often you're "forced" to take Reave or similar
-- Not as flexible in taking along the squadmates you'd rather have [need ammo powers]

I'm not trying to be mean, but have you played a Vanguard before? I think that the Vanguard actually shares some of the advantages you are trying to highlight for the Soldier. Also 2 of the 3 "disadvantages" are really easy to argue as belonging to the Soldier as well.

I won't argue that the Soldier has a lot of flexibility in how it approaches weapons. That's the function of the class! Adrenaline Rush is a really attractive feature for those that dig bullet time shooters. Soldier is probably the most shooter friendly class in my opinion.

The Vanguard doesn't have to just play with a "charge & shoot" style. Even on Insanity you can set up situations to make use of Pull. Shockwave has the ability to stagger targets with protection. Charge and shoot is simple, and effective, but it's not the only way to play the class. You can get tactical use out of biotics while still maintaining the ability to charge. I feel that having Shepard with a means to combo warp explosions without spending on slam is an advantage.

I really don't think Vanguards are "forced" to take reave. They are no more forced into than Soldiers are. Both classes benefit the same from having that power. In fact just about every class benefits from reave. It's just that good. Let's not kid ourselves.

Oh, and you do realize that Vanguards are only lacking in disrupter ammo from Soldiers? Both classes have inferno and cryo. Vanguards have access to SMGs which Soldiers do not. SMGs can be researched to do more damage to shields just like shotguns. Yeah, a soldier can use disrupter on an assault/sniper rifle, but SMG's aren't exactly garbage. Especially with the Locust. So stripping shields/barriers with a Vanguard isn't exactly as tough as it may look on paper. Armor isn't much of an issue with pistols, or charging with a shotgun. Inferno rounds melt armor. So neither class is that disadvantaged vs protections that reave/energy drain are "must haves". They do greatly enhance either class though.

[Little Paw]

It's the choice between easy and super easy.

[tommyt_1994]

I completely forgot about this thread lol. I chose the vanguard btw. Heres the build im probably going to use if youre curious



Inferno Ammo-10

Squad Cyro-10

Heavy Charge-10

Shockwave-10

Pull-1

Champion-10



or just get rid of squad cyro and max out pull field instead of shockwave. Im leaning toward the first build though

[sipaufade]

 i recommend vanguard with the claymore, flamethrower, and strength boost pads. just embrase the close combat and force yourself to stay that way. if you really want to force the issue, go with the tempest and not the locust so you have zero option to have anything but up close combat. it's a rush, especially on the final part of the suicide mission, to zip around smacking people in the face knowing it's all or nothing. every fight is a rush because more than any other class, death is just as an option as a quick victory. it's just the funnest class, hands-down

[tommyt_1994]

I'll be taking sniper training on the collector ship. I prefer the scimitar and evi as fe as ahtguns go and the viper helps out with enemies like Ymir mechs and the final boss

[nihilreich]

Scimitar and Viper are my choices too. Viper is hardly necessary, but soo useful when there's two Husk-surrounded Scions and you'd rather get rid of one before you charge.



As for the build, maxing Reave instead of Pull/Shockwave is much more point efficient because out of those two, Pull Field is the one you want and you can't have that without ditching Squad Cryo (and the regular version of Cryo Ammo is completely useless). But you could get away with Shockwave 2, Pull field and Bonus 3 (Reave/Barrier/Energy Drain?).

[Little Paw]

I am playing through again as an engineer. I like the drone. Changes tactics up a bit.

[NICKjnp]

nihilreich wrote...

Scimitar and Viper are my choices too. Viper is hardly necessary, but soo useful when there's two Husk-surrounded Scions and you'd rather get rid of one before you charge.

As for the build, maxing Reave instead of Pull/Shockwave is much more point efficient because out of those two, Pull Field is the one you want and you can't have that without ditching Squad Cryo (and the regular version of Cryo Ammo is completely useless). But you could get away with Shockwave 2, Pull field and Bonus 3 (Reave/Barrier/Energy Drain?).

I never use squad cryo ammo.  Area Reave and Pull field takes out husks no problem.  Samara, Thane and VanguardShep clears house with no problems.

[Hedgepath]

Played 1st & 3rd game as ME imported Infiltrator. Cloaking is cool, sniping while cloaked=AWESOME. Played 2nd time as Soldier, that sucked btw. Played last 2 games as Vanguard, 'cause charge is a pleasurable way of killing!! (see BeresaadSoldier vids). Shockwave tears apart husks and disorients shielded groups enuff that Charge lets you kill w/o being killed. Add geth shielding and U pretty much are unkillable. Add Arc projector if U want 2 disorient more, or use B4 U charge to "waken them" once U charge, kill unshielded to allow time to switch weapons and blast shielded enemies!! Still can snipe after picking that up from Collector ship, so what's not to LOVE w\\Vanguard. Thanks BioWare, Vanguard not so great in ME, imo, ROCKS in ME2...options are totally awesome, more so than Soldier..(fyi - for PC console players, charge doesn't look weird at all, actually, looks kinda cool), So, play as Vanguard or Infiltrator......

[gethspy]

soldier is a good all around class and is pretty straight forward and the vanguard takes some figuring out to play on higher diff. but the vanguard is honestly more fun