126 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

"Hold on a sec, man - Hey Wilson! WHERE ARE YOU TAKING SHEP'S BODY?"

"... Uh, for some air?"

"Oh okay, so that's when I let her know it was a heavy risk-,"

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 avril 2010 - 01:48 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

janeym27 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Yeah, he's surprised that Shepard's alive, and security there is already dead, but no mechs are around.... dun dun dun.

Wilson should have got some dead mechs and put it in the room, then shoot himself in the leg

He should have set everything to go crazy after he was off the station and spending his billions of credits, Dennis Nedry style! (although a Klixen may well have eaten his face after his greed forced him to detour and drop his guard...)

ANOTHER Jurassic Park reference!

[kraidy1117]

InvaderErl wrote...

"Hey Wilson! WHERE ARE YOU TAKING SHEP'S BODY?"

"... Uh, for some air?"

"Oh okay, so that's when I let her know it was a heavy risk-,"

[InvaderErl]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...


ANOTHER Jurassic Park reference!

OMG WE NEED A MEME THREAD!

[kraidy1117]

InvaderErl wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...


ANOTHER Jurassic Park reference!

OMG WE NEED A MEME THREAD!

I like  memes

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

OverlordNexas wrote...

janeym27 wrote...

Hmm... I'd always assumed it was just convenient plotting to set up the tutorial level, but this thread makes a good point.

Re: Wilson in his logs. The logs that play are a very random assortment of snippets. (I know they are there to fill us in about the Lazerus project, but the specicif sections which play make no sense as the top entries at the various points.) Why do Wilson's personal logs where he is complaining about lack of appreciation even play like that? Seems to me that if you are going to moan about work, you don't record it on your work databases (especially when you work for someone like Cerberus). Also, in order to get attacked by the very mechs you unleashed, you'd need to be pretty incompetant.

I would love for there to be something more to this, but unless Cerberus shows itself to be some kind of Big Bad in ME3, I can't see it happening.

This is what made me doubt Wilson's "betrayal". No one in their right mind would leave audio logs talking about how much they hate their job and their boss lying around for anyone to find.

I dunno, I laughed the day I found an article snippet of some ex-employee who had wrote an bunch of nasty things on facebook, forgetting that in their thousands of friends, their boss was among them. Humanity's stupidity is infinite.

[kraidy1117]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

OverlordNexas wrote...

janeym27 wrote...

Hmm... I'd always assumed it was just convenient plotting to set up the tutorial level, but this thread makes a good point.

Re: Wilson in his logs. The logs that play are a very random assortment of snippets. (I know they are there to fill us in about the Lazerus project, but the specicif sections which play make no sense as the top entries at the various points.) Why do Wilson's personal logs where he is complaining about lack of appreciation even play like that? Seems to me that if you are going to moan about work, you don't record it on your work databases (especially when you work for someone like Cerberus). Also, in order to get attacked by the very mechs you unleashed, you'd need to be pretty incompetant.

I would love for there to be something more to this, but unless Cerberus shows itself to be some kind of Big Bad in ME3, I can't see it happening.

This is what made me doubt Wilson's "betrayal". No one in their right mind would leave audio logs talking about how much they hate their job and their boss lying around for anyone to find.

I dunno, I laughed the day I found an article snippet of some ex-employee who had wrote an bunch of nasty things on facebook, forgetting that in their thousands of friends, their boss was among them. Humanity's stupidity is infinite.

LOL well it's there fault for being stupid.

[DuffyMJ]

Funny enough, in the hanger bay you can actually see more shuttles even though Miranda says "this is the only shuttle", lmao.

[Nu-Nu]

I think he was pissed off about his pay...or he wanted to re-fix shepard and get more money, kill miranda and take all the glory for himself? Small percentage of me thinks he's working for shadowbroker/someone nasty and they offered him more money to kill shepard. Who knows, I don't think it'll ever be answered, especially if it's the former reason.

[Anacronian Stryx]

2.) A space station with a huge staff only has ONE Escape Shuttle?!!

If you look to the left just before the shuttle hangar you can see quite a few shuttles standing there.

[salfiert]

most of the points you bring up don't seem to me to be as flawed as you suggest if you really think about it

1) yes wilson was one man, but he is a very deep cover agent having worked on the project for something like two years and since he had direct access to shepard probably a high clearance member making it easier for him to sabotage the project. its not like wilson suddenly said "know what i think ill betray cerberus today", people dont think like that it was almost certainly planned for months or even years in advance.
2)um yeah cant really explain this
3) it never says that hes the only one, least that i can remember, the others may be dead, or just seperated from jacob and shepard, also lazarus project clearly has a large compliment of mechs for security (yes it didnt work out but that wasnt planned) they probably wouldnt need many human security operatives.
4) many people have mentioned that wilson is disatisfied with his job and all that, however since it was likley wilson was a covert opperative planning to sabotage the project he would have to be retarded to have recorded super villain monologues and just left them around the station for shepard to find.
5) the turian signal was likley meant to be intercepted by cereberus, it was a trap after all, intercepting something meant to be intercepted and intercepting encrypted transmissions from a more high tech race are two different kettles of fish.
6) miranda shooting wilson was suspicious yes, but considering she had just been betrayed by someone she had worked with for months i doubt she was completley calm, even if she appears so. but still doesnt make total sense
7)who says it was easy to infiltrate an orginization with seemingly unlimited resources and reprogram every mech in the place to attack it probably takes ages, maybe it took time, besides shepard was not meant to be awake yet, miranda was worried if he could take it and if it he/she would be damaged long term because of it, shepard was only woken because it was risk permenanent damage or lose him.

i dont see that bigger flaw in the thing

[Nozybidaj]

Blk_Mage_Ctype wrote...

So either Wilson was just a Red Herring and the whole thing was fabricated to make Cerberus look more like saviors than the terrorists they are, or whoever wrote the story took everyone for idiots and never bothered to make it more convincing that Wilson went traitor, or bothered to give him a plausible motive.

/shrug  That sounds pretty much like the rest of ME2 to me.  There are a lot of examples of folks trying to read things into the story that just simply aren't there.  If the whole Liara business has taught me anything it is to actually take the story at face value, there really isn't anything hidden underneath it all.

[InvaderErl]

Eh its not really the same thing, Liara explicitely stated her motivation, i know that people were looking for some kind of revelation that she was in it to bring the Reapers down but that was never even hinted at as far as I can recall.

Wilson's case is a bit different in that it isn't out and out said who he's working for (though the Shadow Broker seems the likeliest case).

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 avril 2010 - 12:26 .

[Nozybidaj]

InvaderErl wrote...

Eh its not really the same thing, Liara explicitely stated her motivation, i know that people were looking for some kind of revelation that she was in it to bring the Reapers down but that was never even hinted at as far as I can recall.

Wilson's case is a bit different in that it isn't out and out said who he's working for (though the Shadow Broker seems the likeliest case).

Point is one doesn't make any more sense than the other.  So people try and read into things what "could" be there for it to make sense.  Just relating my experience that in all likelyhood, there actually isn't anything deeper there to read into it.   It can be fun and all to speculate and talk about it, but just like with Liara and her motivations there probably isn't anything more there than what was actually presented.

[smudboy]

scyphozoa wrote...

ME2 has more plot holes, and in particular, issues like Wilson's betrayal - extremely "forced" vehicles necessary to drive the story, than any other BW game (to my knowledge)

They really tried to cover a lot of ground in ME2. I think part of the problem is they had too many good ideas but not enough thread to tie them together. I hope BW devs recognize the strained narrative of ME2 and can avoid repeating anything similar in the future. 

Example -  Derelict Collector Ship/Trap was a *pretty* good concept, but more importantly, a necessary crux of the narrative in order to explain a chunk of lore (collector/prothean)

But then the Derelict Reaper Ship shortly following the Collector ship feels very awkward. This redundancy in derelict ships is disappointing. Both level's design and concepts were very good, but it was the overall direction the story "had" to go in that cheapens the experience. 

I am hoping ME3 and all BW games get a little more love and polish in the future. Avoid plot-holes and (overt, uncharacteristic) forced narrative vehicles please.

The fact that one was an obvious trap and Shepard had no contingency plan if something went wrong and actually is the plot, and the other just destroys the entire plot, I think are the main issues.  There was absolutely no buildup for the Derelict Reaper, just the conversation with TIM going on about him not sacrificing Shepard needlessly.  "Oh yeah we have a Derelict Reaper."  Why didn't TIM show anyone?  At that point in time, why didn't Shepard?

Apparently they learned less from that then they might from a Collector Base.

[asfaltowy]

I've got a feeling that Miranda is behind this situation, as she wanted to test Shepard. Wilson didnt have time to say that as we know.

[Habelo]

the collectors obviously bribed him?

[smudboy]

Habelo wrote...

the collectors obviously bribed him?

Obviously?

If so, when?  Not when they just got Shepard's body.  Why would he wait 2 years?

If right near Shepard's resurrection?  Wilson was going to be a rockstar of the biomedical world if the project was a success, and going to get all the cash and ass he wanted.  He wouldn't care about some scary, mysterious alien species offering credits.

[Habelo]

smudboy wrote...

Habelo wrote...

the collectors obviously bribed him?

Obviously?

If so, when?  Not when they just got Shepard's body.  Why would he wait 2 years?

If right near Shepard's resurrection?  Wilson was going to be a rockstar of the biomedical world if the project was a success, and going to get all the cash and ass he wanted.  He wouldn't care about some scary, mysterious alien species offering credits.

Err... why would he get all the cash he wnated when the whole project was a secret and when miranda would probaly take all the fame?

Srsly there are alot of possibilities and we dont know enought details to know which one. Betrayers exists- deal with it.

[smudboy]

Habelo wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Habelo wrote...

the collectors obviously bribed him?

Obviously?

If so, when?  Not when they just got Shepard's body.  Why would he wait 2 years?

If right near Shepard's resurrection?  Wilson was going to be a rockstar of the biomedical world if the project was a success, and going to get all the cash and ass he wanted.  He wouldn't care about some scary, mysterious alien species offering credits.

Err... why would he get all the cash he wnated when the whole project was a secret and when miranda would probaly take all the fame?

Srsly there are alot of possibilities and we dont know enought details to know which one. Betrayers exists- deal with it.

Why would you assume anyone would keep that a secret?  TIM makes it public knowledge.  Was Shepard asked to lie?  Seems Miranda didn't take any fame.  If Wilson's motivations are acknowledgement and money, what's stopping him from going anywhere?

[Frekken]

While its possible Wilson is the villain, I find it equally plausible that the whole thing was set up by Miranda to test Shepard in combat under semi-controlled circumstances without letting him know he was being tested. Wilson is the fall guy, so that you don't get pissed at Miranda for letting mechs shoot at you.



No blood or mechs in the room where Wilson is shot? There aren't any mech bodies anywhere even when Shepard kills them, they explode and disappear. There's no blood in this game anywhere ever in places where plenty of violence occurs.



Most of the points for the miranda test conspiracy have been raised already. For me the most telling are these:



You never run into a heavy mech even though they are wandering around.



Your weapon and armor are stored in the medical bay.



Miranda hustles you off the station rather than wait for anyone else to show up. Good thing you bumped into Jacob, I guess she would have left him there?



The whole "betrayal" cooccurs with a collector hit on freedoms progress.



Finally, Miranda makes sure Wilson can never be questioned, and thus his motives can never be known. Her excuse for doing so is very flimsy. I'm pretty sure two top Cerberus operatives and the savior of the citadel can keep a single medical guy with a pistol secure long enough to take him somewhere to be questioned.

[jojon2se]

I'd say it's safe to assume the whole tut-level scenario was deliberately designed to be unclear, in order to reaffirm our old Ep1 mistrust of Cerberus,while leaving lots and lots of wiggle-room for Miri and Timmie.



One could say that Wilson's dissatisfaction, with the lack of appreciation received, had built up over time and when the product (Shepard) began to near completion and marketability, *he* began sending out feelers to prospective customers. The offer was picked up by the collectors, by proxy of the Shadow broker and Wilson came up with the overly complicated plan, outlined in this thread, to avoid having every bountyhunter in the galaxy on his tail, while spending his sudden and not-suspicious-at-all fortune. Miranda flash-rages at the sight of the traitor and pops him on the spot (so much for the composed and intelligent one).



One could equally easily say it's all a Cerberus purge, with a prep-Shep's-first-impressions bonus, and that Miranda's snarl was more of a "****, that particular knows-too-much guy was supposed to be dead by now! *silences him forever*"

Miranda wakes Shepard up remotely, just in time to see whatever planted material needs to be seen and have conveniently (ok, ok, we ARE overanalyzing, after all) left equipment right there.



I'm leaning towards Wilson's innocence, myself, actually - it's ridicolously convoluted, but that's how much trust and general feel-good a certain supposed perfect leader, etc, etc, inspires, in my view - little enough to consider the most cartoony-complex of schemes that might compromise her.



Then there is, of course a number of manners, in which BOTH scenarios could be true, in different proportions, heh.

[inversevideo]

We do not have enough information.



Wilson clearly felt pride, in helping to bring you back.

Listen to his recording, on the datapad, and it is clear he excited about having made medical history.



So why does he want to kill Shepard?



I am pretty sure this is a major plot point for ME3, as there were a million ways to get you off the station, and over to meet TIM, and still give you a bit of a training workout. Heck Freedom's Progress should be all the training exercise you need!



There is a reason that Wilson tried to kill you, it could be he was going to turn you over to the Collectors, but I do not believe so. Besides, much easier to just sell the data, as he was involved in every phase of your resurrection.



Unfortunately, with Wilson dead, I do not believe we will know why he decided to have you killed, until ME3 (unless there is DLC forthcoming that will touch on this).