61 réponses à ce sujet

[SuperMedbh]

Funkcase wrote...
And i must add this, my uncle was murdered by the IRA a terrorist orginisation like Cerberus (obveously without the same funding) If i found out one of my friends was working with them, i would never forgive them i would probably beat them to a pulp.

Wow.  Thanks for being so open, Funkcase.  That's awful.  You put it like that, and Kaiden/Ash's reaction is a bit restrained.  More akin to "If it was anyone but you, I'd have complete contempt".  But it's a game, and everyone wants the NPCs to act exactly like they need them to, whatever the NPCs own thoughts might be.  Go over to the Dragon Age forums and you can read how upset some people are with a certain character who refuses to be in a party with the man responsible for the death of his foster father, brother, main father figure and all of his friends. 

I am not a huge Ash fan:  she reminds me of a know it all BFUI (Best Friend Until Inconvienent) of mine.  But she's definitely well drawn, and I get why she would react with shock at Shep teaming up with terrorists (and whatever Miri says, Cereberus is just that)

[Funkcase]

It's ok, i was just a kid at the time, but it has gave me a deep hate for terrorism, my mate was killed in Afganistan two weeks ago and many of my other friends i have grown up with have also. Being a army brat and all most my friends like me where the children of soldiers and they sign up, tradition and all. (i am joining soon).



Yeah i can understand why people may not like her i dont mind that's there oppinion, but i feel some of them have to put themselves in her boots to understand, obveoulsy i understand for the reasons stated above.

[Canned Bullets]

I saved Ashley, she has more character than Miranda.

[trobbins777]

Zamic45 wrote...

To some extent I agree with you there, she was a serious bigot. To some extent I chose to let her live because Kaiden was seriously uninteresting and chose her as a love interest because Liara was too busy being anti-social and scared of her own shadow all the time to really be much more interesting than Kaiden. But she was far more human than either of them, hate and all.

(Facepalm)

Why the hell does everyone think Ash is racist? I swear to god i want to punch someone everytime i hear someone say that. Where to begin?

1 She calls Terra Ferma racists and hates their guts.
2 She has never served with aliens before, pardon her for being a little uncomfortable around the raptor, alligator, and blue squid-head aliens.
3 She never in the entire game says anything that could be considered remotely racist. She advises that Shepard against letting the aliens on board poke around the vital systems so they don't sell the alliance out.
4 She doesn't trust the council because she is worried they will turn their backs on them in their time of need. WHICH IS ONLY THE ENTIRE PLOT OF MASS EFFECT 2!!

(end rant)

 P.S. You humans are all racist!!!

[Metal Gib]

Honestly I liked Ashley. Looking at the situation on horizon from her side, A person you served under, respected, trusted, fought and bleed with. Man/woman you thought was dead just shows up out of seemingly nowhere and is working with a known terrorist/pro human group that you two had fought in the past. Yeah I think she has every reason to be a little pissed at you. Grant she doesn't know the whole story, but in that moment I don't think it really matters. She and I think a lot of people would view it as a betrayal.

Modifié par Metal Gib, 02 mai 2010 - 06:03 .

[NaclynE]

I still like her personally. She's a no-bones-about-it type girl. Everything she says on Horizon is unfortunatly true. You fought against Cerberus and now your 'Willingly' working for them? I tottally agree that that kind of makes Shepard a bit of a hypocritical jerk. But I still find her personallity great where she likes pool, dressing in shortskirts and cowboyish boots and plays a mean game of pool and loves to dance and read while being a strong family supporter. I personally never hated her and fopefully she and Kaiden can be transfereable over to 3.



"I'll walk drag sir."~Ashley.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

trobbins777 wrote...

Zamic45 wrote...

To some extent I agree with you there, she was a serious bigot. To some extent I chose to let her live because Kaiden was seriously uninteresting and chose her as a love interest because Liara was too busy being anti-social and scared of her own shadow all the time to really be much more interesting than Kaiden. But she was far more human than either of them, hate and all.

(Facepalm)

Why the hell does everyone think Ash is racist? I swear to god i want to punch someone everytime i hear someone say that. Where to begin?

1 She calls Terra Ferma racists and hates their guts.
2 She has never served with aliens before, pardon her for being a little uncomfortable around the raptor, alligator, and blue squid-head aliens.
3 She never in the entire game says anything that could be considered remotely racist. She advises that Shepard against letting the aliens on board poke around the vital systems so they don't sell the alliance out.
4 She doesn't trust the council because she is worried they will turn their backs on them in their time of need. WHICH IS ONLY THE ENTIRE PLOT OF MASS EFFECT 2!!

(end rant)

 P.S. You humans are all racist!!!

Exactly. I don't think she was right to distrust Garrus or Wrex personally but her feelings towards aliens aren't based on bigotry or hatred of extra-terrestrials. She just didn't think alien governments would prove trustworthy allies. Which proved to be largely correct as it turned out. And personally, had I never been in a place like the Citadel or anywhere with aliens for that matter, I wouldn't be able to tell if a Hanar or something similarly "extreterstrial " was sentient until it started talking to me.

[Dokarqt]

Ash ftw.



Yes the encounter on horizon is kind of a slap in the face but what bothered me the most was not really Ashleys reaction so much (it was kinda justified seeing as she just spent two years believing shepard was dead) but more about Shepards responses.



I mean seriously, especially the opening lines. "Hey ash, long time no see, how are you?!". Big facepalm moment.



Theres not a single response line there that doesn't make Shepard come across as a huge douchebag. My biggest frustration with the horizon encounter is not Ashleys reaction but the horrible writing behind shepards responses.

[Icinix]

Dokarqt wrote...

Ash ftw.

Yes the encounter on horizon is kind of a slap in the face but what bothered me the most was not really Ashleys reaction so much (it was kinda justified seeing as she just spent two years believing shepard was dead) but more about Shepards responses.

I mean seriously, especially the opening lines. "Hey ash, long time no see, how are you?!". Big facepalm moment.

Theres not a single response line there that doesn't make Shepard come across as a huge douchebag. My biggest frustration with the horizon encounter is not Ashleys reaction but the horrible writing behind shepards responses.

Yeah exactly.  My first playthrough I was like, what the shiz? I picked the top paragon choice didn't I??

Her reaction was fine, my shepards, was not.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Didn't like her then & still don't like her now, IMO she seemed like a narrow minded b!tch<_<

[Zaisha_temp]

While I'm not a fan of Ash, I do think that her agressive reaction on Horizon is more natural and in character than Kaidan's (who says nearly the same thing). Kaidan is an officer and throughout ME1 has always been a "think things through and consider the other's point of view" kind of person. Ash is a non com, is very firm in her beliefs and wears her heart on her sleeve.



To her it's really simple: you left the Alliance, (regardless of reason) the Alliance is her life. Her reaction on seeing you alive is joy, which turns to anger when it's confirmed you work for a known enemy of the alliance (regardless of reason).



Basically: Ash is prone to gut reactions and not impressed with subtleties and excuses for doing things she sees as wrong. The Alliance is Good, Cerberus is Bad, you left the Alliance for Cerberus. She's a ground pounder marine, not a politics oriented officer.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Funkcase wrote...

You cant blaim her for how she reacted after all the crap she seen Cerberus do in ME1 and just after seeing Shepard two years after Shepard's death. She is shocked, happy and angry at the same time she dosent know what to do. And speak to Anderson after Horizon ask him about Ash and then select i thought we were friends, he tells you Ash was giving evidence to support you to the council, she was actually helping you, she aint gonna go awol though and ruin her family name in the Alliance for life, but she can help you from where she is and thats what she is doing.

And i must add this, my uncle was murdered by the IRA a terrorist orginisation like Cerberus (obveously without the same funding) If i found out one of my friends was working with them, i would never forgive them i would probably beat them to a pulp. If i was Ash, there would have been no letter. Ash had nothing to apologise for when Shepard was being a di** and making out that Cerberus are good like he's there dam spokesman, and at the end what do you know Ash was right.

I pretty much agree with what you've said....

but I will add... if shepard hadn't worked with Cerberus after they... brought him back to life, then the collectors/reapers wouldn't have been stopped.

[jojon2se]

I can't help but wonder, whether one would detect a pattern, should one correlate people's opinion of Ashley, with how they vote in national elections...



@Funkcase: I know you have your unmoveable convictions which, apparently, stem largely out of your entire growing up and realise that, to you, I'll come across as a fool here, but do you really want to become (more) part of the antagonism feedback loop?

[implodinggoat]

The first time I played Horizon I remember yelling "Your Dead To Me B*tch!" at my television. However; upon further reflection I actually think that Ashley or Kaiden's cameo on Horizon was actually very well written and in line with their character. If anything after witnessing the atrocities Cerberus committed in ME1 its far more out of character for Shepard (remember Akuze?), Joker and Dr. Chakwas to be working with filth like Cerberus under any circumstances.



Honestly, if I were Ashley or Kaiden and I saw my dead commander appear out of nowhere and tell me he/she's working for Cerberus I'd probably conclude that the real Shepard was dead and that what I was looking at was nothing more than a puppet bread by Cerberus (which is distinctly possible considering how damned docile my Shepard seems to have become between ME1 and ME2). Once I came to that conclusion I'd probably try and put a bullet in the head of the abomination standing before me.



All in all that's a really good scene on Horizon, it fits the character and it hits you right in the gut, partly because you care about the character and partly because you know they're right about Cerberus. So I'd say I'm pissed off that Ashley (or Kaiden) wouldn't take my word that I was doing the only thing I could; but at the same time I can understand why they'd be skeptical and I can understand how shocked and emotional they must have been.



If you contrast that scene to the act of butchery that Bioware committed on poor sweet Liara then you'll start to see how good that scene was. The scene on Horizon is dramatic, it hits you hard, and if fits their character perfectly. While Liara's appearance isn't dramatic since its basically a mission comprised of nothing but hacking terminals, it doesn't hit you hard since its so protracted and dull, and I'm sorry; but having the most virtuous and benevolent character in ME1 threaten to flay someone alive because they didn't pay their bill sure as hell doesn't fit Liara's character and what's worse you never get a decent explanation for how such a radical transformation could occur so you're left confused, dismayed, and pissed off, not at Liara; but at what a ****ty job Bioware did with her character. In fact every time I play ME2 I find myself going through mental gymnastics to try and deny what Bioware did to the nerdy blue hottie I knew in ME1, thankfully the Star Wars Prequels gave me some practice beforehand.



So as a fan of Liara's character I'll just say this if you're a fan of Ashley or Kaiden and you feel slighted by their appearance in ME2 take solace in the fact that it could be much, much worse.

[RyrineaNara]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Didn't like her then & still don't like her now, IMO she seemed like a narrow minded b!tch<_<

1.)She calls Terra Ferma racists and hates their guts.
2.) At least she noes politicians aren't their to be your friend
3.) She doesn't hate Garrus, nor does she hate Wrex or Liara



It really seem like the Ashely Kaidan, and Liara fans actually read the dialogs. <_<

[Onyx Jaguar]

I have gone into much detail on why I don't like Ashley. She did not surprise me in ME 2 it was what I expected.

[skcih-deraj]

trobbins777 wrote...

Zamic45 wrote...

To some extent I agree with you there, she was a serious bigot. To some extent I chose to let her live because Kaiden was seriously uninteresting and chose her as a love interest because Liara was too busy being anti-social and scared of her own shadow all the time to really be much more interesting than Kaiden. But she was far more human than either of them, hate and all.

(Facepalm)

Why the hell does everyone think Ash is racist? I swear to god i want to punch someone everytime i hear someone say that. Where to begin?

1 She calls Terra Ferma racists and hates their guts.
2 She has never served with aliens before, pardon her for being a little uncomfortable around the raptor, alligator, and blue squid-head aliens.
3 She never in the entire game says anything that could be considered remotely racist. She advises that Shepard against letting the aliens on board poke around the vital systems so they don't sell the alliance out.
4 She doesn't trust the council because she is worried they will turn their backs on them in their time of need. WHICH IS ONLY THE ENTIRE PLOT OF MASS EFFECT 2!!

(end rant)

 P.S. You humans are all racist!!!

If only every one payed attention to the conversations you have with ash I wonder how racist she would seem?

[snfonseka]

Alistair4Ever wrote...

I romanced ashley in 1 and was REALLY suprized about what a **** she was! i used that as my excuse not to stay loyal to her...

Me 2 !

[DigitalFallout]

I am glad to see this thread did'nt just turn into a pathetic hate thread. I loved Ashley in ME1 and i still do in ME2, her realism, love for poetry and family and dedication to what she believes in is all amazing. I find it sad some people hate her but i suppose that just add's to how amazing she realy is, hate is love. I just hope Bioware dont change her to much in ME3, she's perfect becuase she has flaws.

[Samurai_Wahoo]

I think most people do not understand the difference between prejudice and rascism. Please, go read up on it... you may be suprised.



Ashley is definately prejudice, which everyone is to some extent, but Ashley is not a racist. Someone point out some racist behavior. Ashley was probably one of the more deeper characters from ME.



I like her in ME, but I liked her even more now becuase of her cameo in ME2 and for a lot of the reasons mentioned before me.

[mopotter]

Funkcase wrote...

You cant blaim her for how she reacted after all the crap she seen Cerberus do in ME1 and just after seeing Shepard two years after Shepard's death. She is shocked, happy and angry at the same time she dosent know what to do. And speak to Anderson after Horizon ask him about Ash and then select i thought we were friends, he tells you Ash was giving evidence to support you to the council, she was actually helping you, she aint gonna go awol though and ruin her family name in the Alliance for life, but she can help you from where she is and thats what she is doing.

And i must add this, my uncle was murdered by the IRA a terrorist orginisation like Cerberus (obveously without the same funding) If i found out one of my friends was working with them, i would never forgive them i would probably beat them to a pulp. If i was Ash, there would have been no letter. Ash had nothing to apologise for when Shepard was being a di** and making out that Cerberus are good like he's there dam spokesman, and at the end what do you know Ash was right.

I agree for the most part.   None of my Shepards are working for Cerberus, dosen't trust them and keeps Garrius and Tali  close by for backup.  But they do understand where Ash/Kaidan is coming from and if they could have answered the e-mail they would have said they understood.    

[ashlover mark 2]

as saddned as i am that she is not a sqaudmate i am also glad that she didnt not join cerberus,and i think her reaction is completely understandable,for any one who cares too see it from her perspective,and thats the main prob with ash haters they constantly fail too see things from her perspective.


ash haters have three basic reasons why they dont like ashley,and if they took the time too actually listen and pay attention when she talks most would problay find that these three things are untrue.

1:she is rasict.This IS NOT TRUE,ashley has never said that she HATES ALIENS and has never commited A HATE CRIME in the whole game.she HAS SAID that she dose not trust them and dosnt expect them to stay allies forever.THAT IS NOT RASICST.not only that MASS EFFECT is already filled with blatant rascism,OBSERVERE,KROGANS hate TURIANS,THAT is rascim,QAURIANS hate GETH,alomst every race hates QAURIANS,KROGANS are XENPHOS they actaully say that they dont like aliens and dont want them on there planet,TALI ,yes the charecter with all the lil drooling fanboys,acts rascits she actually approves of genocide against the GETH,but nobody says anything about her right....cuz its ok to try too wipe out entire races that havent done anything too you just becuz ur afraid of them.


2:shes narrow minded.ppl say shes narrow minded beuz she dosnt trust aliens and dosnt expect them too be allies for long.That is sooo quit the opposite of being narrow minded,in plotics and war everyone knows this saying "Todays friends are tommorrows enimes" this has bearings in real life and i shall give you examples.im american,back in world war 2 the russians and the germans had a nutrality agreement hitler betrayed that agreement and attacked russian two countries who were once freinds went too war with each other,later russia joined the allies and helped deafet the third reich,not soon after the war america and russia were the two main superpowers in the world and soon began too disagree with each other,two countries who were offiacle allies in world war 2 "friends too some extent" eventually turned on each other and began the cold war and almost sparked a Nulear war that would have destroyed the world,later the russians went too war against afghainastan(yes the country the US is at war with now)the US began too supply the afgains with weapens and traning they were our freinds and allies.later after that war the afghains attaked The US and now the very country we supplied and trained too fight against the soviet union turned on us.so you see where i went with this anyone who belives that your friends that you have now will stay your friends forever is a naive narrow minded fool.


3:shes a ****.ok her personality can come off a bit strong,but she acts no bicther than miranda at the beging of ME2 or jack.miranda is a complete and utter **** in the first three hours of the game,jack is a **** for almost the entire game. yet nobody bombards these chareters with insults,why i have kno idea.

sorry for the uber long rant but im just tired of all the ashley hate for no real reason.so in closing i wish anyone who hates ashley for these three reasons just go back play the game and see it from her perspective,before you judge.

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 03 mai 2010 - 02:21 .

[Xeranx]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

trobbins777 wrote...

Zamic45 wrote...

To some extent I agree with you there, she was a serious bigot. To some extent I chose to let her live because Kaiden was seriously uninteresting and chose her as a love interest because Liara was too busy being anti-social and scared of her own shadow all the time to really be much more interesting than Kaiden. But she was far more human than either of them, hate and all.

(Facepalm)

Why the hell does everyone think Ash is racist? I swear to god i want to punch someone everytime i hear someone say that. Where to begin?

1 She calls Terra Ferma racists and hates their guts.
2 She has never served with aliens before, pardon her for being a little uncomfortable around the raptor, alligator, and blue squid-head aliens.
3 She never in the entire game says anything that could be considered remotely racist. She advises that Shepard against letting the aliens on board poke around the vital systems so they don't sell the alliance out.
4 She doesn't trust the council because she is worried they will turn their backs on them in their time of need. WHICH IS ONLY THE ENTIRE PLOT OF MASS EFFECT 2!!

(end rant)

 P.S. You humans are all racist!!!

Exactly. I don't think she was right to distrust Garrus or Wrex personally but her feelings towards aliens aren't based on bigotry or hatred of extra-terrestrials. She just didn't think alien governments would prove trustworthy allies. Which proved to be largely correct as it turned out. And personally, had I never been in a place like the Citadel or anywhere with aliens for that matter, I wouldn't be able to tell if a Hanar or something similarly "extreterstrial " was sentient until it started talking to me.

I thought it was funny (IIRC) how she mentioned Garrus and Wrex, but didn't mention Tali and people still called her a bigot.  Completely missed that part I guess.

[Collider]

I disagree with her views on aliens and religion/God, but at her core she's a good person.

[Telemachus78]

Liked her then and like her now. "O Captin, my Captin" But I am also a sap for poetry.