121 réponses à ce sujet

[x-pan]

exxxed wrote...

Anyway, on-topic, try running in circles in ME 1 and then try it in ME 2 ( on PC W->A + S->D repeatedly) and see how ****ed up the animations are in the second, plus there's no fall animation? WTF s/he drops stiff as a stone when jumping down from a box or a pile of them for example.

ME 1's animations were more continuous/fluent they weren't that stiff and, jumping from one set of animations to another felt realistic.

Try going down on a set of stairs with your gun drawn, or watch an npc do it and see how awkward it is, better yet, watch Jacob run with his gun drawn now that's funny.

I concur and augment with the above; plus that the only thing saving the ME2 Female Shepard is the brilliant voice acting of Jennifer Hale; which wasn’t even given much attention, dialog-wise, apart from a few different parts here and there, in order to get the “different experience” they promise at the end of the game.

By the way: Male MoCap animations can be cleaned and resized to fit a female skeleton frame, and vice-versa. However, no matter how one’s trying in post, the performance of a female actor cannot be re-created; not even if they actually wanted her to look like a tom-boy.

I guess that’s the punishment we players get after the media downplayed Fem Shepard’s homosexual scene in ME1; which didn’t even show much in the first place anyway.

 To Bioware Developers:

-Haven’t you heard the old saying “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”???
What’s with all the female animations, cinematic or otherwise? OK, she’s a “macho” character saving the galaxy
and all, but for example: does she really need to walk turning her head like that, looking like an immature, over-confident, male school bully?

-Hey, why not create different animations even for the various classes/origin, not just the male/female versions, or go further and MoCap some idle/walk/run/stand anims depending of how one’s progressing as a paragon/renegade?

-No trailer / teaser / promotion for her ???

-Please take all people’s comments as constructive criticism when developing ME3, especially the bad ones, and use that feedback to make the game trilogy even better.

Modifié par x-pan, 25 avril 2010 - 12:00 .

[brotag]

brfritos wrote...

I think I was the only one that noticed this, femShep was heavy downplayed in ME2.
I don't know why, maybe the devs (or EA) were jealous because of her sucess, since all the art and story focus on maleShep.
In ME1 she's much better than him, but now maleShep is better than her.

It's not only in the graphic department that she's bad, her own personality appears to be left "behind" maleShep on purpose.

[ ]'s

Hey, I thought the same too. I assume more players play her in ME1 considering the *ahem* romances.
Jennifer Hale really brings her character to life though imo so I can't really comment on her personality.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Whailor wrote...

Well, don't play female chars so don't really care.. [..skip...]

If you don't play her, then don't post in thread, because it makes your (skipped) remarks irrelevant.

emanziboy wrote...

Because women are proportionally different to men, they need different animations. Unfortunately, developers often don't have the time/memory/resources to do this this so they have two options. Either they can just use the same animations used for men and have the occasional mess ups that you guys have pointed out, or they're forced to just get rid of the option to play as women as in the case of Crackdown 2.

I think we as gamers do not have to understand the "problems" of the devs or the games industry. All we need to is encourage them towards making better games. Male animations for female characters does not achieve that goal.

ME2 has budget written all over it, from said animations to decision impact in the form of "cameos" and e-mails.

If we comply with that crap then we get it shoved down our throats again next time in ME3.

ToJKa1 wrote...

It is bad, especially since postings on this forums suggest that femshep is very popular. Maybe they'll do thing different in ME3.

Agreed.

Destructo-Bot wrote...

My nickname for femshep is "Lurch"

It really is too bad, the animations and fluidity of movement in ME1 were wonderful for both sexes. Movement and animation is jarring in the second.

Hehe. Lurch... I hope I can get your remark out of my head next time I play ME2.

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

From a programming/rendering animation point of you it's less labor intensive and less load on the Xbox 360 to have the same skeletal animation for both male and female Shepards. I assume there are similar animations for team members too, especially those of similar body types like Tali and Kasumi. My only problem with it, or Shepard animations in general, is that weird head sway Shepard does when running. I'm surprised no one spoofed it in a YouTube video yet.

As a PC player I don't care about the limitations of the 360 platform. In fact it shows me that I never want a console.

KainrycKarr wrote...

Am I the only one who didn't see weird animations with femshep? She seems to have the same as maleshep, but i don't see any bugs that maleshep didn't have.

I have the PC copy, maybe that's it?

Nah. I have the PC version too and the male animations for FemShep are exactly why she feels so weird when walking.

FlyingWalrus wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Am I the only one who didn't see weird animations with femshep? She seems to have the same as maleshep, but i don't see any bugs that maleshep didn't have.

I have the PC copy, maybe that's it?

No. I have the X360 version and I don't see it either.

People just want a reason to whine.

That's a first... No personal attacks this time? Just the silly "whine" remark to make sure you say at least something negative?

Empiro wrote...

It's really noticeable in Kasumi's loyalty mission, when Shepard wears a dress for a formal party.
Running around like that in a formal setting -- yeah...no. Absolutely atrocious animation-wise.

Yeah. FemShep walking in that dress was funny.

Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

The biggest thing I noticed was that by using the same animations as MaleShep, there's a lot of floating. For example, when Shepard talks to Garrus and she folds her arms and leans on the railing, her arms aren't touching properly and they're hovering above the railing.

I've noticed that too. The game development is really rushed.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 25 avril 2010 - 04:10 .

[jojon2se]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...
...snip...
Also things like the width of her shoulders and stuff change based on outfits like...compare the orange outfit to her black dress and her shoulders just change significantly. Personally I PREFER the physique she has in the dress and i hope future dlc outfits base themselves off of that, it just looks better on her and makes her look different from the rest of the females in the universe.
...snipetty...

Umm, what? *runs up to wardrobe to check*

Looks like you are right and this may well be part of the problem.
Notice how the slimmer shoulder area dress version of Shep still has her elbows at the same lateral distance as the others? It kind of looks like they modified the mesh, but forgot to adapt the skeleton, leaving her physical shoulder joints out to the side of their visual mesh counterpart, which would cause some other odd effects, depending on weighting.
Any way the different visual shoulder/elbow ratio, between the "earlier" casual options, makes dress Shep look like she's holding her arms out to her sides, like she's carrying something under her arms, whereas the other ones look more natural, which ironically means this outfit gives her a more "butch", as we so often hear, posture.

Contrary to you, I'd see Shep physically fit. It kind of amuses me, that under the assumptions above, a more powerful build may well have resulted in a more feminine posture than she got with the "waif" one.

[Reiisha]

emanziboy wrote...

This is a problem that's popping up across the industry, but it has nothing to do with how lazy developers are. Because women are proportionally different to men, they need different animations. Unfortunately, developers often don't have the time/memory/resources to do this this so they have two options. Either they can just use the same animations used for men and have the occasional mess ups that you guys have pointed out, or they're forced to just get rid of the option to play as women as in the case of Crackdown 2.

So why do Miranda and Kasumi for example have a proper female walk? Why did FemShep have proper animations in ME1?

With the resources Bioware has they could *at least* have made FemShep walk and run properly, and changed those few instances of specific animations (like with Garrus for example) to proper female ones. If the game was moddable to any degree an amateur would have "fixed" this on day one.

You see the animations literally almost every single second of gameplay. It just doesn't make sense to completely ignore them for what's basically one of your two main characters in the game.

And don't get me started on why Bioware would possibly completely ignore that there's an option for a female protagonist for all DLC armors except Collectors. Why is this, exactly? There's no reason not to include them in a DLC. It doesn't ship with the game and there's no limit on data like there might be on a DVD. There's absolutely no excuse not to have included them.

Modifié par Reiisha, 21 juin 2010 - 11:19 .

[vehzeel]

Aren't "female" and "male" walks dependent on sex/gender roles? I hope humanity has moved further in the Mass Effect universe than we have today so what's considered male or female is more blurry.

Anyway, I don't want my badass Shepard to walk like a model on a catwalk. She's a warrior! And please, no sane combattant would wear high heels. Yes, I'm looking at you two, Samara and Miranda! By the way, the animators should really do the female proportions better. My room-mate laughed so hard. She basically saw Ashley Williams's hips and ass through a closed door. Yes, they're BIG!

[Onyx Jaguar]

*remembers old thread*

*sees ME 2 was rushed statement*

*laughs ferociously*

*wanders off laughing*

[Reiisha]

vehzeel wrote...

Aren't "female" and "male" walks dependent on sex/gender roles? I hope humanity has moved further in the Mass Effect universe than we have today so what's considered male or female is more blurry.
Anyway, I don't want my badass Shepard to walk like a model on a catwalk. She's a warrior! And please, no sane combattant would wear high heels. Yes, I'm looking at you two, Samara and Miranda! By the way, the animators should really do the female proportions better. My room-mate laughed so hard. She basically saw Ashley Williams's hips and ass through a closed door. Yes, they're BIG!

Males and females walk, run, raise arms, dance, move their heads, even wiggle toes differently from each other. It's not a sexist statement, it's biology. Male and female bodies are substantially different in many "under the skin" ways.

While FemShep is a warrior, she's still female, so it doesn't make sense for her to be using male animations for everything she does.

And lets not mention the glitches that happen quite frequently. They're subtle but definately there. Of course, if you've never seen actual females in RL i can understand why you'd think you'd know everything about women. I'm not in the army but i know a few people who are, and they definately do not walk exactly the same as their male colleagues. Even female bodybuilders don't, and they're very close to being men in the first place.

So yeah... Bioware lazyness on this one.

[shoulderfish]

I don't expect Bioware to devote all the time to make sure FemShep's every little action is distinctly feminine, but I'd appreciate it if she didn't walk around so ridiculously in ME3.

[_purifico_]

Just let them fix the animation while she's wearing a dress and i'll be fine.Kasumi loyalty mission was one ridiculous piece of ****. She wes supposed to act like a lady on that party, and ended acting like a total whacko. Totaly ruined the experience.

[Onyx Jaguar]

She was suppose to act like a Mercenary Leader

[AntiChri5]

Why the necro?

[JohnnyBeGood2]

LiquidGrape wrote...
Never noticed it.
Guess I was just busy paying attention to more important things, like Hock's absurd dialect.

It's South African. Do you think it was bad? (I didn't mind it as a rendition of south african)

[JohnnyBeGood2]

vehzeel wrote...
Aren't "female" and "male" walks dependent on sex/gender roles? I hope humanity has moved further in the Mass Effect universe than we have today so what's considered male or female is more blurry.
Anyway, I don't want my badass Shepard to walk like a model on a catwalk. She's a warrior! And please, no sane combattant would wear high heels. Yes, I'm looking at you two, Samara and Miranda! By the way, the animators should really do the female proportions better. My room-mate laughed so hard. She basically saw Ashley Williams's hips and ass through a closed door. Yes, they're BIG!

Ouch. I honestly did not find Ash's hips and Ass big. She's not petite but I wouldn't have said big. By proportion I thought she was well rendered. (I do find her attractive)

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 22 juin 2010 - 01:57 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

I'm a male, so I'm no authority on subtleties for women. I liked FemShep in Armor.. I didn't think she was out of proportion. In the dress however, something was not quite right in comparison.

In Tomb Raider Underworld they did full motion capture on a gymnast for all Lara's movements (they had 2000 body position I believe).



Perhaps a combination of more feminine movements and some extra effort for FemShep from the Devs would see them through for ME3.

[Antioch0074]

Female shepard's voice acting is horrid

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Antioch0074 wrote...
Female shepard's voice acting is horrid

wow, Jannifer Hale is nothing short of the reason why I can stand to play the game.. if she wasn't there I am not sure I would play because MaleShep is a screech to me

[Onyx Jaguar]

...



He does remind me of someone who would play a Screech type character

[yummysoap]

If it took you ten playthroughs to notice, it's probably not that big a deal. I agree her walk's a bit off, but everything else feels like small nitpicks.

[Christmas Ape]

I've always just thought FemShep runs like a Marine wearing thirty pounds of hardsuit and another fifteen of weapons. The excessive arm-pumping is just building up speed/keeping the plates from crashing together.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Fix her walking animation and I'll be happy. In ME1, FemShep walked like a woman, and it was obviously different from the way MaleShep walked. In ME2, the two more or less walk the same way.

[CroGamer002]

Thane romance= OK

Jacob romance=heavy risk but no prize( never did)

Garrus romance=F*CK YOU BIOWARE!!!!!!!!

[Bluko]

exxxed wrote...

Don't complain too much, or they'll remove walking all together... remember crouch? Distant memory!

Anyway, on-topic, try running in circles in ME 1 and then try it in ME 2 ( on PC W->A + S->D repeatedly) and see how ****ed up the animations are in the second, plus there's no fall animation? WTF s/he drops stiff as a stone when jumping down from a box or a pile of them for example.

ME 1's animations were more continuous/fluent they weren't that stiff and, jumping from one set of animations to another felt realistic.

Try going down on a set of stairs with your gun drawn, or watch an npc do it and see how awkward it is, better yet, watch Jacob run with his gun drawn now that's funny.

Take care guys!

This.

Animations were much more fluid/real in ME1. Not sure why they made Shepard so stiff in ME2. Though I think it's likely a result of them trying to make the game more of a Shooter and the new cover system. The fact that there's no real point to putting your gun away anymore and that Squadmates never put their weapons away irks me to no end. That and overall lack of armor. Good thing in ME2 we never have to go into a vacuum cause only Shepard, Tali, Garrus, and Legion are properly equipped to do so. But I digress...

Don't get me wrong ME2 is a great game and largely an improvement over ME1, but it's like the Devs kind of gave up on the whole science aspect of it. This makes the nerd in me angry.

[Ieldra]

Yes, fix the walking, and while you're at it, there are certain poses in the game a woman wouldn't adopt. Particularly not in a short black dress...

[Ieldra]

Bluko wrote...
Don't get me wrong ME2 is a great game and largely an improvement over ME1, but it's like the Devs kind of gave up on the whole science aspect of it. This makes the nerd in me angry.

QFT!

Admittedly, there are a lot of small things they've been really inventive with - just read the planet descriptions. The world is incredibly rich if you care to look, and they've got the science mostly right there. But they've made too many compromises in the big things.