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[Korva]

mochen wrote...
...also oghren annoyed me, but only in awakening

I haven't played Awakenings so I'm curious about this. What annoys you about him in the expansion?

(The reason being that I'm really big on continuity, and having the ultimate sacrifice ending which is my personal "canon" handwaved out of existence annoyed me too much to bother, and doesn't bode well for future DA games either.)

Patriciachr34 wrote...
However, the only one I absolutely cannot stand is Velanna. She is so bitter. Then when she starts warming up, she is insecure and needy. I just don't like her at all with any character I've played in Awakenings to date.

Ugh, from the sound of that, she is a stereotype that I really loathe, too: the ice queen who is really just a baby girl. The only thing that could make it even worse would be if she was a "love interest" and a man could f*ck her all better. Thank goodness Awakenings has no romances.

Modifié par Korva, 26 avril 2010 - 09:06 .

[Sarah1281]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Oh, yes Gorim instead of Ogrhen for the win!

Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

[Herr Uhl]

Korva wrote...

mochen wrote...
...also oghren annoyed me, but only in awakening

I haven't played Awakenings so I'm curious about this. What annoys you about him in the expansion?

He stops being the loveable Oghren from Origins. He just gets kind of obnoxious.

[Radahldo]

Obnoxious may be understating it.

[SurelyForth]

Sarah1281 wrote...


Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

To make no mention of his *ahem* "fine dwarven crafts."

[Sarah1281]

[quote]Korva wrote...

[quote]mochen wrote...
...also oghren annoyed me, but only in awakening[/quote]

I haven't played Awakenings so I'm curious about this. What annoys you about him in the expansion?

(The reason being that I'm really big on continuity, and having the ultimate sacrifice ending which is my personal "canon" handwaved out of existence annoyed me too much to bother, and doesn't bode well for future DA games either.) [/quote] The US is only hand-waved if you import your character and since there is no save after you deliver the final blow w/out the DR the game assumes that you're not trying to play a zombie warden and either Alistair or Loghain did the sacrifice. If you want the US to stick, play a new Orlesian Warden. Of course, then the few decisions that are referenced (dwarven King, Ferelden monarch) are either left vague or set to possibly-canon. I think (but I'm not sure) if you don't import Alistair is King and they don't really mention Anora.

Oghren abandons his wife and child to go off and be a GW based on somehing Felsi suggested might be hot while they were role-playing. When she shows up, understandably pissed, he hits on her and refuses to ackowledge that leaving was a bad idea. His gifts have a diminishing return so they are all +5 from the start and he is really touchy so all the jokes he appreciated in Origins now offend him and so talking to him is like walking on eggshells. Since his personal qust is so difficult to complete (he needs really high approval and it, like everything else in Awakenings it seems, sometimes won't trigger due to bugs) Oghren ends the game without ever stepping up as a father and he never talks to the Warden about why he threw everything away. And his innuendo gets a LOT worse.

[quote][quote] mochen wrote...
Patriciachr34 wrote...
However, the only one I absolutely cannot stand is Velanna. She is so bitter. Then when she starts warming up, she is insecure and needy. I just don't like her at all with any character I've played in Awakenings to date.[/quote]

Ugh, from the sound of that, she is a stereotype that I really loathe, too: the ice queen who is really just a baby girl. The only thing that could make it even worse would be if she was a "love interest" and a man could f*ck her all better. Thank goodness Awakenings has no romances.
[/quote] [/quote] Well, everyone insists Nathaniel and Velanna are in love because he calls her my lady and mentions that she's pretty and she gets all flustered in banters. Velanna's just your typical bitter human-hating Dalish times ten. She's so bitter and human-hating that the other Dalish got freaked out and kicked her out. It's also really hard to figure out how to talk to her without losing approval at first.

[Sarah1281]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...


Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

To make no mention of his *ahem* "fine dwarven crafts."

  Well, he'd have to stop talking about them all the time but that's a plus, too...

[Merilsell]

Let's say the Awakening Oghren left all his humor at the joining and suddenly becomes a very touchy one....which is really annoying.



Oh in terms of annoying I happened to like Wynne very much but the more I play this game the more she become annoying to me.



Warden: How are you doing Wyn--

Wynne: Fine but you should consider that you have a great responsibility as a Grey Warden and blah blah blah *rambles endlessly on*

Warden: *rolls eyes and thinks* Been there, done that...



It's impossible to simply talk with that woman without to get a fullsize lecture. Obnoxious indeed.

[Aisynia]

Yeah.. slimy.. I guess that's the best way to describe my feelings about Zevran.

[Korva]

I think one great thing about Gorim is that he can appeal in equal measure to female and male, gay and straight players. In fact I don't remember any player on these forums saying that they did not like him. The voice acting and attitude did make me (gay woman) click with him immediately. He is respectful, loyal, smart and confident, neither a yes-man nor an uppity jerk, and really came across as the best second that a noble in the viper pit of Orzammar politics could ask for. Unlike other NPCs, whose admiration for the player character sometimes strikes me as an overdone and rushed ego-****** for the player, there is a solid history and reason for why the Aeducan PC and
Gorim would stick together come hell or high water. I like party members with whom you have an existing bond, rather than just having a party of completely random strangers. (That is one reason why I played the human noble origin as my first/canon game: she has her dog, at least.)

"Love interests" often seem to be written too myoptically, IMO, which I think is one reason why many (straight) men dislike the (straight) women's "love interest" and vice versa. If Gorim was a full companion and consistently as well-written during the game as during the origin, and if he was "available" to straight gals (who knows, maybe even to guy guys once free of Orzammar -- I think many gay men would love him), I think he could have been a great exception to that pitfall.

The poor guy really had more potential and should not have been sidelined so randomly.

(Edited to remove random linebreaks. Are they ever planning to fix that bug? Grr.)

Modifié par Korva, 26 avril 2010 - 09:43 .

[Aisynia]

Korva wrote...

mochen wrote...
...also oghren annoyed me, but only in awakening

I haven't played Awakenings so I'm curious about this. What annoys you about him in the expansion?

(The reason being that I'm really big on continuity, and having the ultimate sacrifice ending which is my personal "canon" handwaved out of existence annoyed me too much to bother, and doesn't bode well for future DA games either.)

Patriciachr34 wrote...
However, the only one I absolutely cannot stand is Velanna. She is so bitter. Then when she starts warming up, she is insecure and needy. I just don't like her at all with any character I've played in Awakenings to date.

Ugh, from the sound of that, she is a stereotype that I really loathe, too: the ice queen who is really just a baby girl. The only thing that could make it even worse would be if she was a "love interest" and a man could f*ck her all better. Thank goodness Awakenings has no romances.

Velanna? Needy?

Lol.

She's a strong woman, but she has a lot of regret. Won't spoil it, I will just say she's incredibly bitter, and her bitterness drove her to make some horrendous decisions, which she is eventually forced to deal with. In fact, her bitterness forced people in her life to make decisions regarding her before you ever meet her.

EDIT: Since it was already spoiled above... she is actually so full of hatred, she got kicked out of her clan. She didn't leave alone though, and her bitterness and hatred ruined her life and the lives of everyone around her. Her journey as a character in Awakening is slowly coming to realize that. This is mostly based off of a couple conversations and her banter with various party members, but it's fairly obvious what's going on with her.

She's very somber and regretful in her own way, but warms up, gradually letting down her bitterness.. but I would never, ever call her needy. that's just .. lol.

I know a lot of people hate her, but as a woman, I really respect her.

Modifié par Aisynia, 26 avril 2010 - 09:44 .

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Oh, yes Gorim instead of Ogrhen for the win!

Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

But but but... we already have a companion like that in game!  That is, ummm, if you don't slit his throat first.  Or just leave him at camp and ignore him.

Edit: But there IS something to be said for Gorim's well built magical broom 

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 avril 2010 - 09:42 .

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Oh, yes Gorim instead of Ogrhen for the win!

Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

But but but... we already have a companion like that in game!  That is, ummm, if you don't slit his throat first.  Or just leave him at camp and ignore him.

Edit: But there IS something to be said for Gorim's well built magical broom 

True, Sten is a more than worthy replacement, and politically savvy (for a Qunari).

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 26 avril 2010 - 09:45 .

[Aisynia]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Oh, yes Gorim instead of Ogrhen for the win!

Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

But but but... we already have a companion like that in game!  That is, ummm, if you don't slit his throat first.  Or just leave him at camp and ignore him.

Edit: But there IS something to be said for Gorim's well built magical broom 

Matter of opinion really. I can't take Zevran's accent for more than a few minutes.

[ejoslin]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Oh, yes Gorim instead of Ogrhen for the win!

Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

But but but... we already have a companion like that in game!  That is, ummm, if you don't slit his throat first.  Or just leave him at camp and ignore him.

Edit: But there IS something to be said for Gorim's well built magical broom 

True, Sten is a more than worthy replacement, and politically savvy (for a Qunari).

Sten actually has the best vision for ending the blight.  I often ask myself, "What would Sten do."

[Radahldo]

Aisynia wrote...

Velanna? Needy?

Lol.
She's a strong woman, but she has a lot of regret. Won't spoil it, I will just say she's incredibly bitter, and her bitterness drove her to make some horrendous decisions, which she is eventually forced to deal with. In fact, her bitterness forced people in her life to make decisions regarding her before you ever meet her.

She's very somber and regretful in her own way, but warms up, gradually letting down her bitterness.. but I would never, ever call her needy. that's just .. lol.

I agree. Initially, her perspective is rather small, and if theres anything alienating about her it's that. But other than being vaguely flustered by compliments, I never saw anything needy about her.

Modifié par Radahldo, 26 avril 2010 - 09:52 .

[Korva]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you want the US to stick, play a new Orlesian Warden. Of course, then the few decisions that are referenced (dwarven King, Ferelden monarch) are either left vague or set to possibly-canon. I think (but I'm not sure) if you don't import Alistair is King and they don't really mention Anora.

Yes, but that bugs me because one's personal continuity is still broken that way. I want my Origins character to be dead and stay dead, yet her choices and the effects of her life and death should still be felt and acknowledged. If nothing carries over when you start with the Orlesian Warden and a "default story" is assumed instead, then it isn't my game and story anymore and I'm not really interested.

Plus, if they couldn't (be bothered to) figure out how to extract the world state from the character state for the expansion, I'm not too optimistic that they will do so for a sequel, which would mean that continuity would be non-existent there also.


But back to Oghren. Thanks for the explanation. It does paint him in a very, very unappealing light, worse than in Origins even -- and here I thought he was hard to top there. I couldn't stand him during the game except for that farewell speech at the Denerim gates, but the epilogue of him getting married and tearfully naming his kid after my dead Warden actually brought tears to my eyes. It softened my attitude towards him a bit, kind of "maybe he can change and have a good life still". If he throws that away and goes back to his old habits, even becomes more offensive than before and thin-skinned to boot ... ugh. It sounds like they dropped the ball with him.

How much time passes between Origins and Awakening, by the way? That epilogue made it sound as if many months or even several years pass before Oghren settles down, becomes respectable and has his kid.

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Oh, yes Gorim instead of Ogrhen for the win!

Some people might say that would be too Origin specific but, really, what self-respecting elf, human, casteless, or mage wouldn't want their own personal barrier against the world who is undyingly loyal, politically savvy, and has a really sexy voice? 

But but but... we already have a companion like that in game!  That is, ummm, if you don't slit his throat first.  Or just leave him at camp and ignore him.

Edit: But there IS something to be said for Gorim's well built magical broom 

But just imagine how awesome a part with BOTH of them could be...

True, Sten is a more than worthy replacement, and politically savvy (for a Qunari).

Politcally savvy? How is he politcally savvy? He just wants to end the Blight and ignore all the political posturing as it's a waste of time.

How much time passes between Origins and Awakening, by the way? That epilogue made it sound as if many months or even several years pass before Oghren settles down, becomes respectable and has his kid.

Not long. Alistair or Anora are stealing dealing with remnants of the war in the bannorn as the reason they can't help but it's longer than six months as a HN is already married to Alistair/Anora and that happens half a year after the coronation. Not to mention Oghren's kid has to be born so...probably a year or so.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

True, Sten is a more than worthy replacement, and politically savvy (for a Qunari).

Politcally savvy? How is he politcally savvy? He just wants to end the Blight and ignore all the political posturing as it's a waste of time.

He is a diplomat after all. He is about as politically savvy as Qunari get.

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

True, Sten is a more than worthy replacement, and politically savvy (for a Qunari).

Politcally savvy? How is he politcally savvy? He just wants to end the Blight and ignore all the political posturing as it's a waste of time.

He is a diplomat after all. He is about as politically savvy as Qunari get.

As his version of diplomacy seems to mean 'don't attempt to conquer' if he's the guy they sent...well, clearly they suck at diplomacy. Not that that's surprising, of course.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Politcally savvy? How is he politcally savvy? He just wants to end the Blight and ignore all the political posturing as it's a waste of time.

He is a diplomat after all. He is about as politically savvy as Qunari get.

As his version of diplomacy seems to mean 'don't attempt to conquer' if he's the guy they sent...well, clearly they suck at diplomacy. Not that that's surprising, of course.

Indeed they do suck at diplomacy, the only treaty they have signed is a peace with Rivain IIRC. But he does know how to speak English (not that comfortable with the language though, thus he speaks few words).

Their foreign policy is "educate the unenlightened". And that is pretty much it.

[Aisynia]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Politcally savvy? How is he politcally savvy? He just wants to end the Blight and ignore all the political posturing as it's a waste of time.

He is a diplomat after all. He is about as politically savvy as Qunari get.

As his version of diplomacy seems to mean 'don't attempt to conquer' if he's the guy they sent...well, clearly they suck at diplomacy. Not that that's surprising, of course.

Indeed they do suck at diplomacy, the only treaty they have signed is a peace with Rivain IIRC. But he does know how to speak English (not that comfortable with the language though, thus he speaks few words).

Their foreign policy is "educate the unenlightened". And that is pretty much it.

And by "educate the unenlightened" they mean "conquer everyone who isn't Qunari and convert them to the Qun by force".

Modifié par Aisynia, 26 avril 2010 - 10:47 .

[Herr Uhl]

Aisynia wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Indeed they do suck at diplomacy, the only treaty they have signed is a peace with Rivain IIRC. But he does know how to speak English (not that comfortable with the language though, thus he speaks few words).

Their foreign policy is "educate the unenlightened". And that is pretty much it.

And by "educate the unenlightened" they mean "conquer everyone who isn't Qunari and convert them to the Qun by force".

Well, the chantry had a similar policy (but a little more brutal) regarding those who had converted to the Qun. Sending them all to Rivain and Par Vollen my ass.

[Aisynia]

Not saying it's right, but I don't really blame them for the retaliation.

[Lintanis]

Aisynia wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Politcally savvy? How is he politcally savvy? He just wants to end the Blight and ignore all the political posturing as it's a waste of time.

He is a diplomat after all. He is about as politically savvy as Qunari get.

As his version of diplomacy seems to mean 'don't attempt to conquer' if he's the guy they sent...well, clearly they suck at diplomacy. Not that that's surprising, of course.

Indeed they do suck at diplomacy, the only treaty they have signed is a peace with Rivain IIRC. But he does know how to speak English (not that comfortable with the language though, thus he speaks few words).

Their foreign policy is "educate the unenlightened". And that is pretty much it.

And by "educate the unenlightened" they mean "conquer everyone who isn't Qunari and convert them to the Qun by force".

Sounds abit Muslim