49 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSixthghoul]

Hi everyone, I play a ruthless human male noble and I cant believe Alistair didnt see my betrayal at the landsmeet coming. I know he's dumb but come on his approval is at -100, I call him dunb all the time, I killed his cousin, tainted the ashes,I told him the grey warden's mean nothing to me, i turned on the elves and sided with the wolves, I left redcliffe to its fate,and had Morrigan as li.Yet, he was surprized that I let Loghain and decided marry to Anora,why?

Modifié par Sixth Goul, 22 avril 2010 - 07:51 .

[Elhanan]

Might be your high Coersion score; he has none....

[sylvanaerie]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Hi everyone, I play a ruthless human male noble and I cant believe Alistair didnt see my betrayal at the landsmeet coming. I know he's dumb but come on his approval is at -100, I call him dunb all the time, I killed his cousin, tainted the ashes,I told him the grey warden's mean nothing to me, i turned on the elves and sided with the wolves, I left redcliffe to its fate,and had Morrigan as li.Yet, he was surprized that I let Loghain and decided marry to Anora,why?

Because of game mechanics thats why.  Alistair is an AI programmed to respond in a certain way, not a person who can anticipate what the player will do.
If you are referring to why did he stay with you through all that and then leave/die at the Landsmeet then look to the fact that you are one of two surviving Gray Wardens.  He stays with you to end the Blight.  He doesn't have to like you, he doesn't have to agree with anything you do, he just suffers your presence as long as you continue to complete game goals.
Every NPC has their breaking point (except Dog who loves you unconditionally) and Alistair's is Loghain.  Next play through if you want to find out about him and learn why he would do this, don't be such a jerk to him and actually get to know him (Impossible at 100 hostile).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 22 avril 2010 - 10:41 .

[Mlai00]

Who's Alistair's cousin??

[Aisynia]

Connor.

His father's wife's brother's son (and also the son of the man who raised him until he was ten).

So more like a step-cousin, but close enough. It's obvious Alistair sees Eamon as family.

Modifié par Aisynia, 22 avril 2010 - 11:03 .

[sylvanaerie]

Well at 100 hostile I doubt he would have learned anything at all about Alistair so assumed it was his cousin. Ali I think only talks about himself when you reach certain approval triggers? Or I could be wrong, I have never set out to deliberately antagonize the only other GW in the game so I don't really know for sure about that.

[NamiraWilhelm]

Lol seems like you gonna pee off a lot of women with this thread

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Cause alistar is a follower not a leader he doesnt stand up for himself until the end of the game harden or not loghain caused the death of the only father figure alistar's ever had witch was duncan. Grey wardens do what they must to defend agianst the blight alistar i'd assume understands that. So of course hes gonna hate you for sparing the very man that killed his mentor/teacher/father if i was him i'd react the same. Besides how can you spare the man that killed duncan and his mighty beard!

[TheSixthghoul]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Cause alistar is a follower not a leader he doesnt stand up for himself until the end of the game harden or not loghain caused the death of the only father figure alistar's ever had witch was duncan. Grey wardens do what they must to defend agianst the blight alistar i'd assume understands that. So of course hes gonna hate you for sparing the very man that killed his mentor/teacher/father if i was him i'd react the same. Besides how can you spare the man that killed duncan and his mighty beard!

What are you talking about? I didnt spare the darkspawn that killed Duncan. Just because he's a follower shouldnt mean he's blind.

[Carmen_Willow]

At the Landsmeet, Alistair doesn't have a clue as to why only Grey Wardens can kill the archdemon. And even if he thinks you're a total SOB, he assumes that you would feel the same way about the man who called you a coward and a murderer and sent an assasain to kill you, and then tried to kill you himself.....geeze.....we all know what assuming something makes us....but it's a reasonable expectation on Alistair's part to think that you'd want Loghain dead as much as he does no matter what sort of bottom feeder you are.

[Serissia]

The dead horse really needs a reprieve from his beatings.

Alistair (hardened or unhardened) is very much Maric's son. Alistair continually tries to look for the best in people and situations. He has an idealistic view on what the Grey Wardens are like. Beyond that, it's a game mechanic, Alistair can't leave until after the Landsmeet or the plot would make no sense.

Modifié par Serissia, 22 avril 2010 - 04:59 .

[Sarah1281]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

At the Landsmeet, Alistair doesn't have a clue as to why only Grey Wardens can kill the archdemon. And even if he thinks you're a total SOB, he assumes that you would feel the same way about the man who called you a coward and a murderer and sent an assasain to kill you, and then tried to kill you himself.....geeze.....we all know what assuming something makes us....but it's a reasonable expectation on Alistair's part to think that you'd want Loghain dead as much as he does no matter what sort of bottom feeder you are.

See, that's really a conversation we should have had beforehand, especially if you tell Anora that you fully intend to let her father live if it's at all feasible and you actually mean it.

[AnniLau]

Sixth Goul wrote...

What are you talking about? I didnt spare the darkspawn that killed Duncan.

He's talking about Loghain abandoning the field, leaving the King and Grey Wardens - including Duncan - to die.

Modifié par AnniLau, 22 avril 2010 - 05:10 .

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Sixth Goul wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Cause alistar is a follower not a leader he doesnt stand up for himself until the end of the game harden or not loghain caused the death of the only father figure alistar's ever had witch was duncan. Grey wardens do what they must to defend agianst the blight alistar i'd assume understands that. So of course hes gonna hate you for sparing the very man that killed his mentor/teacher/father if i was him i'd react the same. Besides how can you spare the man that killed duncan and his mighty beard!

What are you talking about? I didnt spare the darkspawn that killed Duncan. Just because he's a follower shouldnt mean he's blind.

But loghain caused duncans death by leaving him at the hands of darkspawn that out numbered them 10 to 1 loghian would of made a massive difference in the battle at ostagar and possibly could of saved duncan and the king. Plus he left his half brother to die as well then he poisoned Arl Eamon. Thats why he's pissed that you spared him plus its a game. How could he not be suprised that you spare loghain? He put bountys on both of your heads and hunted you guys. He was expecting you to agree to killing him not say oh no your off the hook go redeem your honor. None of this is meant to be hostel just saying how can you not expect him to not be surprised?

Modifié par OrlesianWardenCommander, 22 avril 2010 - 05:04 .

[Addai]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

At the Landsmeet, Alistair doesn't have a clue as to why only Grey Wardens can kill the archdemon. And even if he thinks you're a total SOB, he assumes that you would feel the same way about the man who called you a coward and a murderer and sent an assasain to kill you, and then tried to kill you himself.....geeze.....we all know what assuming something makes us....but it's a reasonable expectation on Alistair's part to think that you'd want Loghain dead as much as he does no matter what sort of bottom feeder you are.

Not to mention that you just spent the entire Landsmeet trying to prove to everyone what a villain and a traitor Loghain is, and now you want to recruit him into your ranks.

So who's the dumb one? 

[Sarah1281]

We just spent the entire Landsmeet proving he's unfit to be regent, not that he can't fight or serve as a decent general.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Not to mention that you just spent the entire Landsmeet trying to prove to everyone what a villain and a traitor Loghain is, and now you want to recruit him into your ranks.

So who's the dumb one? 

Eum no, I personally spent the entire landsmeet to prove to Loghain that I am better and that he should serve under me. Which he does.

[Cuddlezarro]

Addai67 wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

At the Landsmeet, Alistair doesn't have a clue as to why only Grey Wardens can kill the archdemon. And even if he thinks you're a total SOB, he assumes that you would feel the same way about the man who called you a coward and a murderer and sent an assasain to kill you, and then tried to kill you himself.....geeze.....we all know what assuming something makes us....but it's a reasonable expectation on Alistair's part to think that you'd want Loghain dead as much as he does no matter what sort of bottom feeder you are.

Not to mention that you just spent the entire Landsmeet trying to prove to everyone what a villain and a traitor Loghain is, and now you want to recruit him into your ranks.

So who's the dumb one? 

no *you* spent the landsmeet trying to prove to every one that loghain was a villain and traitor

not every one did

[Xandurpein]

The original question comes down to this. There is only so much the game can be programmed to recognize. It is impossible for example to program the game to differentiate a truth from a lie hen I choose a response. I can play a total psychopath, like the thread where someone pointed out that you romance Alistair all the way up to +100 love and then let Anora execute him. There are simply limitations to how much they can code into a game, and if you set your mind to it, you can create some weird results. It's just something we need to accept in a computer game, the only way around it is to play PnP games with a human gamemaster.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

You forget that you become general anyway so you dont even need him. I killed im 99% of all the time's i've played the game but if there was a way to spare him and alistar i'd do that instead.

[Xandurpein]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

You forget that you become general anyway so you dont even need him. I killed im 99% of all the time's i've played the game but if there was a way to spare him and alistar i'd do that instead.

Harden Alistair and make him marry Anora. Then Alistair will sulk and be mad at you if you spare Loghain, but he'll still stay as King with Anora, even if you let Loghain live.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 22 avril 2010 - 05:24 .

[Sarah1281]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

You forget that you become general anyway so you dont even need him. I killed im 99% of all the time's i've played the game but if there was a way to spare him and alistar i'd do that instead.

You can have both of them live, just not in the same party. If you harden him and marry him to Anora, Alistair actually turns out pretty well and his epilogue is no different than if you'd actually killed Loghain like Alistair wanted.

[TheSixthghoul]

I get the Loghain part, but everything else shouldn't be a surprise.If his approval is in the negatives shouldn't his dialogue change?If I remember correctly, when you say you'll stand by Anora as her consort he still says I should make him king,like he didn't hear what I just said. My pc even said "It about time" when is Anora wanted him executed and he was surprised. My point is at some point during the Landsmeet he shouldn't be surprised if your approve is in the negatives.

[CalJones]

Well yes. +100 Alistair responds the same as -100 Alistair. I think the dialogue only changes slightly if you're in a romance with him.

As David Gaider said in a different thread, it's just not possible to have enough dialogue options to satisfy everyone.