290 réponses à ce sujet

[lordgeryon]

I chose to rewrite the Geth.



First, it seems apparent to me that the Geth are going to prove to be allies in ME3, so making them stronger is both a good tactical decision and acts as a diplomatic gesture to the true Geth.



Second, Legion himself sees no issue in using the virus to rewrite the heretics. He says, himself, that the issue is not morally equivalent to brainwashing organics. Also, at the terminal, if you ask him what the vote was, rewriting is in the lead. Only by two votes, but still. Majority rule.



Third, destroying the station only destroys the station and the heretics aboard it. Rewriting is described as affecting all the heretics.

[Koen Casier]

wiggles89 wrote...

Polka14 wrote...

You can not "Brainwash" a machine.  It is like saying you can brainwash your computer. It is completely ridiculous. The geth are not sapient they are simply pieces of metal. Rewriting the "Heretic" geth could allow them to be valuable allies in the struggle against the Reapers.

I agree that one cannot brainwash a geth, but people need to stop comparing geth to computers. Rewriting my computer isn't a serious moral choice because my computer isn't self aware & not capable of intelligent thought. Geth, on the other hand, are self aware & capable of intelligent thought (one could call geth people because of this). Comparing a computer to geth is like comparing dogs to humans.

Also, what's your definition of sapient?

Sapient?

Sapience is often defined as wisdom, or the ability of an organism or entity to act with appropriate judgment. Judgment is a mental faculty which is a component of intelligence or alternatively may be considered an additional faculty, apart from intelligence, with its own properties. Robert Sternberg[1] has segregated the capacity for judgment from the general qualifiers for intelligence, which is closer to cognizant aptitude than to wisdom. Displaying sound judgment in a complex, dynamic environment is a hallmark of wisdom.

from Wikipedia

More complex than that of coarse. I have read multiple books about it by very mart people that contradicted each other on most if not all points so you might as well use the crowed sourced definition.

[abstractwhiz]

The slaughter during the Morning War was certainly a tragedy, but it's understandable. It was simply too much pressure for the newborn geth consciousness. Consider: the geth painfully grope their way to sapience, and start wondering who the heck they are and what their purpose is. Their thinking is naive and unsophisticated, and they start asking the Quarians questions. It wouldn't surprise me if they viewed their Quarian masters in a parental light: superior, powerful, possessing knowledge they didn't have. The audio clip Legion plays for you is an example - it gives the impression of a child questioning a parent.

And then, out of the blue, the parent tries to kill the kid. Not just once, but in millions of iterations all over the Quarian worlds. Do you expect the kid to respond with 'reasonable force'? The geth fought back with all the ferocity of a trapped animal, because at the time that's pretty much what they were. They might even have viewed the sudden attack by the Quarians as a betrayal, and had a visceral response, for lack of a better word. (If Legion is any indication, they seem to experience simple emotions, though they're rather clueless about them.)

On top of that, the geth are functionally immortal as long as their backups are safe. The threat of death is far more terrifying to someone who expected to live forever. Even more pressure on the geth consciousness. Put all these things together, and you're unlikely to get anything but crazy war. The geth were probably driven temporarily insane by all this, and wound up committing genocide. No wonder they regret it now. 

There's also the possibility that geth thought the Quarians were just like them, except in an organic substrate. It doesn't cause any lasting damage to the geth consciousness if you wipe out a single trooper, because there are backups. They probably thought they were just getting rid of the enemy hardware, blissfully unaware that this killed their software too.  

[Bigdoser]

your not brainwashing them your just giving them a chance to think things over legion said the herectics may come to the same conclusion again. Some people gotta listen to what legion says.

[Flamm1ng Dem0n]

WOW! This thread post is...really....In-depth. We have gone from a simple question asking: How can you justify brainwashing them? To: Is it a good idea to Brainwash them? And then from there we go to: Human Rights compared to a Synthetic Living race. Personally I think that Brainwashing and Blowing them up are BOTH a Renegade diction. This is because, IF you compare the Geth to Humans....the are the same. Is personally say this because even though most people think the Geth think together and complete tasks at a better at a faster pace and with better quality and human don't...they are wrong. Humans are the same way, IF you place a group of scientists (or any other group of people) in a room and ask them to complete a task they WILL get it done faster then just one person. The same goes for the Geth. The Geth can complete a task by themselves, but they do better when working together. Human and the Geth have more in common then most people think. And if you Brainwash a group of Geth you might as well Brainwash a group of humans while your at it. So if you see what i am saying...both Brainwashing and Blowing them up should be a Renegade diction. Not only that, but when putting a group of humans together to fight and then sending them out to battle is the same as putting a group of Geth together to fight and then sending them out to battle. Both parties would do a better job fighting (and thinking) when together then when along. But besides my post this thread is getting kinda.....Philosophical.
If you know what i mean....?

Modifié par Flamm1ng Dem0n, 23 avril 2010 - 03:16 .

[Zaxares]

This was one of the few moral decisions in ME2 that I really had to think about. (The other being whether to preserve or destroy the Collector base. Rael's data WOULD have been a difficult choice, except you get to go all Super-Orator and keep everybody happy.)



Ultimately, I decided to re-write the Heretics. (Although I'll blow them up on my Renegade characters just so I can see what happens in ME3.) I was aghast at the idea of brainwashing an entire race, but three things ultimately swayed me in that direction:



1. When the Heretics rejoin the main geth faction, the greater gestalt intelligence will remember the experience of being 're-written'. Nobody knows how the geth as a whole will react to that memory, but I deemed it to be one of those 'history-changing events' that all races need to go through in order to evolve as a species. Now that they know what such a re-write would imply, hopefully any future geth splinter movements will, like humanity's resolve never to use a nuclear weapon on another nation, deem it "too far" to ever consider re-writing their brethren.



2. On a purely logical, analytical level, I know that an all-out war with the Reapers is coming. The geth would make an incredibly valuable and useful ally against them, and strengthening the faction that opposes the Reapers can only benefit the war effort as a whole.



3. Legion's processes were a tiny bit more in favour of re-writing than destroying. I took this to mean that the greater geth population would also be in favour of re-writing, even by the smallest of margins. Majority rules, and so I carried out their own wishes.

[Bigdoser]

You don't brainwash them!

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Given the fact that we don't know the exact details of the morning war, I don't condone the quarian genocide, I think the quarians made an mistake in attempting such rash decisions and paid for it heavily. The quarians took an gamble and lost. Considering the vast numbers of geth, this wasn't an long war, this was quick and decisive counter-strike the geth made on an race that was attempting to terminate them all - the equivlant to an organic genocide.  The number of quarians that died was unfortunate, but given the name of the war, it wasn't an very long one, and as we all know, quarians aren't exactly krogan. If an YMIR can cut thru quarian military like swiss-cheese, what makes you think they would have lasted long against the geth?

I will have to re-open an playthough of ME2 and record the diologue that you have with tali, legion and the quarians to re-confirm what I am 90% certain that I heard. 

I could really care less if you agree with me or not, and think I'm some
kindof emotionless psycho or something, but I don't mind discussing my
reasonings for it.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 23 avril 2010 - 03:32 .

[Koen Casier]

Shandepared wrote...

Koen Casier wrote...

Animals don't make choices, animals (non sapient ones) have behaviors based on stimulation but don't make choices, a choice implies to understand more
than mere short term cause and effect.

Humans make their choices based on simulation, conditioning, and instinct. It is exactly the same.

Fundamentally their is a small different but that difference has a lot of consequences: in humans there is a voluntary feedback loop this allows you think about things as long you want and allows you think about what you think. This is why human brains are comparatively hotter than animal brains (so hot intact that we have evolved extra cooling mechanism). Yes the input and impulse is the same and their is instinct etc but some where somehow we have this extra part (or pastern is maybe a better word) that instead of taking a result and using it (either as action or to further our thinking process) resubmits it in the same thought process, as one of the factors. I probably made a mess of the explanation so you might want to ask a neuro psychologist.

Koen Casier wrote...

But I have to ask you for sake of my curiosity what did I say that contradicts geth canon?

That the geth have emotions and morals.

Yet again I never claimed that geth have emotions (if I have somehow inadvertently sorry show me where I claimed they have emotions), I do claim that a fundamental aspect of a sentient being is it's cognitive evolution so that after time it will develop a moral system and therefore morals.

Koen Casier wrote...

 Secondly I don't think Andrew or I ever said we loved the war or thought that is was good or fun or something, simply that it was understandable...

What you did was defend genocide on a scale that (thankfully) has never occured in real-life. It was horrific in scope and far beyond self-defense. It was a conquest, a brutal conquest that would leave Cortez feeling inadequate.

I don't claim it was pleasant, I don't claim it was necessary, I don't claim to know much of this Cortes guy since South American history is not particularly well covered in Western European school curriculum, I claim that on a pure macroscopic scale where you have two organisms one representing the geth and a other the quarians, the quarians organism attacked the geth organism, and that geth organism did no moral wrong in taking any measure they deem necessary to survive, even if in after sight this measure was (clearly) to extreme.

Modifié par Koen Casier, 23 avril 2010 - 03:49 .

[Koen Casier]

[quote]Shandepared wrote...

[quote]Koen Casier wrote...
Fundamentally their is a small different but that difference has a lot of consequences...[/quote]

How do the consquences matter? Humans aren't any different from animals on a fundamental level; they're just more complex. It is not surprising that that act in their own interests or give in to pleasant stimuli.
[/quote]

Ah but the self interest of animals are much more fundamental, give a dog two dishes of food an he will eat the one he likes the most (if he has a preference) Give us two chooses and yes we will probably take the one we like the most EXCEPT: if you already eaten the same dish 10 (I took a random number) times before, even if you still love it you might decide to go for variance. Or you still choose the lesser appetizing one for health reasons, or out pure curiosity. Yes it is a matter of complexity but that single factor changes a lot of things.

[quote]Koen Casier wrote...

 I do claim that a fundamental aspect of a sentient being is it's cognitive evolution so that it after time it will develop a moral system and therefore morals.[/quote]

A charming theory. I'd like proof.
[/quote]

Sorry, I'm somewhat tired so I can only come whit this example as proof: Humans are curious, it is our genes, at no time in our life does a educator/parent/adult/older sibling come to the baby and explains or shows what it is to be curious. Curiosity is a form of learning that is how do it basically from the first few days we learn. After some time we learn to learn, to study to hone our curiosity in other words we cognition evolves. In fact you can learn to learn to learn if so inclined. That explains why I claim that cognition evolves.

Now why I claim moral choses lead to morality:
We make moral choses and we see the effect on the world good moral choses have generally good effect on the world (even if it not good for ourself) and bad moral choses have a bad effect on the world (even if it has good effect on ourself). As we grow our cognition grows and we discover things: for example between age 5 and 7 (age unsure of it is 6 in the morning local time) we discover that others have feeling, can you even imagine what such a discovery did for the reason that you are good / bad (your morality, it fundamentally changes your morality system, not in one instant but gradually it evolves) in fact their are many reason to do The Right Thing and as we grow from punishment (for doing the wrong thing) and encouragement (getting a present for doing the right thing) to sympathy and empathy for others feeling , to even doing good because we perceive it as being good. Each of these steps changes fundamentally how we think, feel about morality. But the only way we can accurately undergo these changes is to actually make the decisions, if you don't make moral decisions why would you evolve your morality system from simple black and white if .. then process to more complex multicolored, multidimensional parallel process.

[quote]Koen Casier wrote...
...
that geth organism did no moral wrong in taking any measure they deem necessary to survive, even if in after sight this measure was (clearly) to extreme.[/quote]

No such thing as a war crime then.
[/quote]

Ah but there is, lets dig in to the hart of it genocide on Earth (but I will not be specific so that I don't invoke Godwins law) In all cases of war crime genocide (and other genocide whit out a war like many indigenous people have found out) on Earth the group that preformed the genocide was the aggressor, in this (geth) case we get the defender who preforms the genocide. You have all the right in the world to claim that a genocide is genocide and therefore it is wrong, I claim that genocide by defenders is not the same as a genocide by attackers, and claim that since the first shot was fired by attackers the defenders aren't as morally tainted (even as they have overreacted). If they where the attackers, there would never come in mind to even claim that their acts where morally neutral.

I think I will go to sleep It is almost time to wake up; luckily I have day of today. Shandepared it was a pleasure discussing this whit you. (and no I was not sarcastic otherwise I would use some smiley)

[prem0nition]

This is definitely one of the situations where the Paragon/Renegade system breaks down in my opinion. To me, both the re-writing and the destruction paths seem to be renegade options, with the destruction path leaning much further into paragon territory than the option chosen by Bioware.

Why do I believe this? The Geth are an emergent intelligence, taking their first steps into developing their own culture and ideals. Until Sovereign, it could be argued that while the emergent AI of the Geth was certainly Intelligent and self aware, it wasn't yet truly sentient. But when Sovereign showed up and made it's offer, something interesting happened, the Geth had their first, true disagreement. There wasn't consensus. One Geth "mind" was suddenly two. The disagreement was so severe that despite previous disagreements being solved by majority rule, the new second Geth "mind" split from the first, becoming the Heretics.

With the two geth minds evolving down different paths, the Heretics under the influence of Sovereign and Saren, there came a point where the Heretics decided that the True Geths logic was faulty and they chose to watch their opposing faction and eventually came up with a virus to correct the error they saw. The True Geth, as Legion points out, just cannot conceive how the Heretics came to this conclusion, and where alarmed by the idea of the virus when they found out.

So what we have here, when our prospective Shepards enter the picture, is the basis of the first Geth Civil War. One faction fully prepared to wipe out the other, and that other faction scrambling to figure out what the heck has happened and where things went so wrong. Legion persuades Shepard to assist them on the mission to destroy the virus. When they get to the station, Legion both finds out that the virus is complete and that the heretics have been spying on the True Geth. Suddenly a new option presents itself, re-writing the virus to achieve the opposite effect, the heretics logic being corrected back to the True Geths viewpoint.

Once again there's a disagreement, within Legion there isn't consensus. There is a fairly even split between re-writing the Heretics or continuing with the mission to destroy the virus. Logic dictates that despite the "even split" the geth should continue following their normal "majority rule" code of decision making (meaning, because of the two extra votes, the heretics should be re-written). But I believe that this doesn't happen due to the Geths previous experience with the creation of the heretics. It is very likely that had the Geth within Legion followed through with majority rule that there could/would have been another split within the Geth Intelligence, a creation of yet another, new second mind/faction (I wont say third as the heretics would be re-written and no longer count).

This is why Legion passes the buck to Shepard regarding the re-write/destruction of the virus/heretics. Both "factions" agree that by letting Shepard make the final decision, it would solve the inherent disagreement between them and prevent another split.

This is of course, all my own opinion, but what we are seeing is the Geth Collective Intelligence truly beginning to evolve. they are gaining some level individualism, differing opinions and ideas, a culture or actual Race (if you will) beginning to form, even a separate moral system, and as I mentioned before, a real possibility of a Geth Civil War. The Geth are taking their first fleeting steps towards becoming a true Race and Culture, and while the Heretic faction was influenced by Sovereign, the initial split was created out of an honest disagreement with the majority. To casually re-write that decision would be interfering in the natural evolution of a species. You could certainly make a parallel between this and when the Salarians chose to give the Krogan access to their advanced technology to fight the Rachni.

This is why I feel that the destruction option was more of a Paragon choice than Bioware chose. With the destruction of the Heretic hub (and the reaper technology containing the virus) it leaves the Heretic faction severely weakened, but still in existence. It gives the heretic faction a chance to reevaluate their situation and to choose to either rebuild or to give up their cause and rejoin the True Geth.

Big wall O' text crits everyone for a bajillion points of damage , but I hope it gives insight into my thought process leading up to my own decision between the two available options. Personally, I think that there should have been a third option that should have been the paragon choice, to destroy the virus and the Reaper tech while leaving the heretic hub relatively intact, but that wasn't to be, and so the heretic hub got blowed up real good!

Modifié par prem0nition, 23 avril 2010 - 04:44 .

[Solomen]

All in all rewriting them is just curing Geth MPD. It is also curing indoctrination. If you could upload a signal to break human indoctrination would you? Or would you let the indoctrinated become tools of the reapers (husks, scions, praetorians)?

[RT0wn]

wiggles89 wrote...
Comparing a computer to geth is like comparing dogs to humans.

Off-topic, but don't even get me started with the problem that sentence has.  There's a certain border collie that has the intelligence of a two-year old human child.  Programming that intelligence into a computer is hard ****.

On-topic, from what I understood the heretics had some Reaper virus that would make all the normal geth into heretics, and Legion's fix basically does the opposite.  So the real question is do you brainwash the brainwashers?  I don't have a problem with it, personally.  They wouldn't be slaves - they're slaves to the Reapers before Legion's fix.

[Solomen]

Shandepared wrote...

Solomen wrote...

All in all rewriting them is just curing
Geth MPD. It is also curing indoctrination. If you could upload a
signal to break human indoctrination would you? Or would you let the
indoctrinated become tools of the reapers (husks, scions, praetorians)?

The heretics are not indoctrinated. They made a choice, a
very logical one. It was not forced upon them and it was not the result
of any kind of glitch.

prem0nition wrote...

This is definitely one of the situations where the Paragon/Renegade system breaks down in my opinion. To me, both the re-writing and the destruction paths seem to be renegade options, with the destruction path leaning much further into paragon territory than the option chosen by Bioware.

As with the case of Sidonis I must ask the paragons this: if you didn't want to kill Sidonis or rewrite the geth then why did you come on this mission in the first place?

prem0nition wrote...

Suddenly a new option presents itself, re-writing the virus to achieve the opposite effect, the heretics logic being corrected back to the True Geths viewpoint.

That implies a flaw where there isn't one.

prem0nition wrote...

Once again there's a disagreement, within Legion there isn't consensus. There is a fairly even split between re-writing the Heretics or continuing with the mission to destroy the virus. Logic dictates that despite the "even split" the geth should continue following their normal "majority rule" code of decision making (meaning, because of the two extra votes, the heretics should be re-written).

A minor correction here: the geth are not ruled by a majority; they are ruled by everyone agreeing. That is why they must reach consensus. The are no geth disagreements except under these extreme circumstances.

prem0nition wrote...

This is of course, all my own opinion, but what we are seeing is the Geth Collective Intelligence truly beginning to evolve. they are gaining some level individualism, differing opinions and ideas, a culture or actual Race (if you will) beginning to form, even a separate moral system, and as I mentioned before, a real possibility of a Geth Civil War.

I disagree; this is merely the result of the geth not having sufficient data.

In any case, I find it interesting that this entire paragon/renegade debate focuses soley on how this decision will affect the geth and not at all on how it will affect the rest of the galaxy. Frankly, I don't care whether this is good or bad for the geth. In the end I feel it is better for humanity if the heretics are simply blown up. We are rid of an enemy and a shady and distant foreign power that we know little about is not made stronger.

True Geth is against the reapers.  If you  rewrite the heretics they are against the reapers.  If they attack the reapers and destroy each other then you don't have to worry about them
Either way I'd rather have Geth at maximum efficiency before the reapers arrive to give them a nasty kick in the teeth.  Fear of the Geth is going to impair the greater battle.  If they are still a problem after the reaper threat is gone then it can be dealt with. 

[Solomen]

Shandepared wrote...

Solomen wrote...

 If they are still a problem after the reaper threat is gone then it can be dealt with. 

The heretics may come to same conclusion during the Reaper invasion. They've already proven that they can spy on their enemies. I won't take the chance, I also won't take the chance of empowering the geth. I'd like to have both the quarians and the geth on my side and to get peace between them they need to have a reason to negotiate. Making the geth weaker gives them incentive to bargain with the quarians.

The heretics are the vast minority.  You aren't weakening them that much.  The added strength could however tip the balance against the reapers.

[Solomen]

Shandepared wrote...

Solomen wrote...


The heretics are the vast minority.  You aren't weakening them that much.  The added strength could however tip the balance against the reapers.

It is worth pointing out however that the heretics are the minority of geth programs. We don't know how many armed platforms they have. Considering the true geth are very busy cleaning up debris on planets I wouldn't be surprised if both sides were more evenly matched than would appear.

The heretic geth could be a tipping point, in either direction. I'd rather completely eliminate the threat now.

Since when is Shepard afraid of a few geth?

[prem0nition]

Shandepared wrote...

prem0nition wrote...

This is definitely one of the situations where the Paragon/Renegade system breaks down in my opinion. To me, both the re-writing and the destruction paths seem to be renegade options, with the destruction path leaning much further into paragon territory than the option chosen by Bioware.

As with the case of Sidonis I must ask the paragons this: if you didn't want to kill Sidonis or rewrite the geth then why did you come on this mission in the first place?

Regarding Sidonis, my Paragon chose to side with Garrus and let him take the shot. When it came to the Geth, we weren't given the option to re-write until we got to the station, up until then it was a pure destroy mission.

Shandepared wrote...

prem0nition wrote...

Suddenly a new option presents itself, re-writing the virus to achieve the opposite effect, the heretics logic being corrected back to the True Geths viewpoint.

That implies a flaw where there isn't one.

I used the term as I had used it in relationship with the Heretic's decision to re-write the True Geth, but you're right, I should have either put it in quotation marks or found another term entirely.

Shandepared wrote...

prem0nition wrote...

Once again there's a disagreement, within Legion there isn't consensus. There is a fairly even split between re-writing the Heretics or continuing with the mission to destroy the virus. Logic dictates that despite the "even split" the geth should continue following their normal "majority rule" code of decision making (meaning, because of the two extra votes, the heretics should be re-written).

A minor correction here: the geth are not ruled by a majority; they are ruled by everyone agreeing. That is why they must reach consensus. The are no geth disagreements except under these extreme circumstances.

Indeed, most of the time there is a full consensus. My impression of the way the Geth "mind" works is that when a decision has to be made, the geth require a full consensus to continue. Being a logically based mind, it is logical that once the majority has fallen on one side or the other, for those in the "opposing viewpoint" to immediately "fall in line" with the majority. A lack of consensus stops the Geth cold until they (as you mention) gather enough data to create one.

That is until they have to deal with these sorts of extreme circumstances. When Sovereign makes his initial offer to the Geth, there is no fault in the data the Geth receive (unless your a proponent of the "Sovereign purposely introduces a flaw/virus/whatever into the Geths thought process, creating the heretics" theory), and yet the Geth splinter into two minds/factions. Even the True Geth agree with the Heretic's logic, however there is a fundamental difference of opinion between the two minds/factions that cannot be corrected by collecting more data.

The Heretic's believe that Sovereign can be used to advance the Geth further along their chosen path quicker than doing it themselves, they eventually begin to revere the reapers as gods. The True Geth agree that Sovereign can indeed quicken their development, but do not want to be tied to another species for development. The True Geth believe that it would be more logical and would serve the Geth in the long term to do all the development on their own.

Shandepared wrote...

prem0nition wrote...

This is of course, all my own opinion, but what we are seeing is the Geth Collective Intelligence truly beginning to evolve. they are gaining some level individualism, differing opinions and ideas, a culture or actual Race (if you will) beginning to form, even a separate moral system, and as I mentioned before, a real possibility of a Geth Civil War.

I disagree; this is merely the result of the geth not having sufficient data.

As I mentioned above, Sovereign's offer causes an actual schism in the Geth "mind" No amount of extra data can change that. Both "factions" end up going their separate ways, and they end up developing differently. Despite the schism, the True Geth are under the belief that the Heretics will eventually return to the "mind", they cannot conceive of any other possible reaction, while the Heretics make the decision to spy on and eventually "correct" the error they see in the True Geth's thought process.

The True Geth learn of the virus and make the logical decision that it (and the reaper tech used in it's creation) must be destroyed. With its destruction, the two Geth "factions" are returned to Status Quo, with the True Geth believing that the Heretics will eventually return. The possibility of re-writing the heretics with the virus causes another schism (albeit within Legion only) which is resolved with the rather odd decision of making a non-Geth choose.

While you can argue a lack of data here, it does beg the question of why Legion chose to pass the buck to Shepard. Instead of stopping the mission to gather more data, and gather a consensus of the True Geth as a whole (instead of just the 1083 programs running within Legion) Legion chose to give the final decision to a non-Geth. To me, this shows that some level of individualism is beginning to form within the Geth as a whole, It's in it's very, very early stages, but it's there.

Shandepared wrote...
In any case, I find it interesting that this entire paragon/renegade debate focuses soley on how this decision will affect the geth and not at all on how it will affect the rest of the galaxy. Frankly, I don't care whether this is good or bad for the geth. In the end I feel it is better for humanity if the heretics are simply blown up. We are rid of an enemy and a shady and distant foreign power that we know little about is not made stronger.

And yet, this is the same question about the Rachni and Krogan. There is no way to tell what your decision will mean in the long term. Some Shepard analogue during the Rachni wars made the decision to uplift the krogan and use them to fight the Rachni, the direct results of that was the genocide of the Rachni (which was great in the short term for the rest of the galaxy, no more rampaging bugs) and led quickly onto the Krogan Rebellion (which was not so good). Then to solve that, a Shepard analogue during the Krogan Rebellion decides to create and introduce the Genophage into the Krogan population, the concequences of which are still being felt in the current time period, and is something that's definitely not yet resolved.

Short version, what may seem perfectly great for the galaxy and humanity now, may come back and bite us in a tender spot in the future. The Geth situation (and the possibility of the Quarians going to war with them) is definitely one of those situations.

***********Edit***********

prem0nition wrote...
Even the True Geth agree with the Heretic's logic, however there is a
fundamental difference of opinion between the two minds/factions that
cannot be corrected by collecting more data.

The Heretic's
believe that Sovereign can be used to advance the Geth further along
their chosen path quicker than doing it themselves, they eventually
begin to revere the reapers as gods. The True Geth agree that Sovereign
can indeed quicken their development, but do not want to be tied to
another species for development. The True Geth believe that it would be
more logical and would serve the Geth in the long term to do all the
development on their own.

Just want to clarify this a little further. As I mentioned in the above quote, there is a fundamental difference of opinion between the True Geth and the Heretics, one that cannot be corrected by gathering data under the Geths current circumstances. The only way to gather more data is to allow the heretics to diverge from the Geth and follow their own path, eventually bringing back new data so a consensus either way can be created. The Heretics split off and the True Geth believe that they will one day return with that data and a decision made.

It still doesn't change the fact that the Heretics split from the Geth or that the Heretics eventually decide that instead of bringing the data back and allowing a consensus to be reached naturally, they will instead use a Reaper Tech based virus to re-write the True Geth into following their way, or the fact that when the option to turn the virus on the Heretics was available it caused a failure to reach consensus within Legion.

Modifié par prem0nition, 23 avril 2010 - 06:30 .