125 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

You know, all of that probably contributed to making her withdrawn.

[soignee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, all of that probably contributed to making her withdrawn.

^this

*wears Anora fangirl colours again*

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, all of that probably contributed to making her withdrawn.

^this

*wears Anora fangirl colours again*

It's easier to like Anora when you have no ambition for the human throne and aren't an Alistair fangirl, isn't it? 

[Ponce de Leon]

@OP : Sten?

Sten : "No!"



Nuff' said! The man talked! (well, two letters better than anything)

[soignee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

soignee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, all of that probably contributed to making her withdrawn.

^this

*wears Anora fangirl colours again*

It's easier to like Anora when you have no ambition for the human throne and aren't an Alistair fangirl, isn't it? 

yeah as Aimo says, it's the different perspectives this game has. Anora is a wonderful, wonderful example of this.

[CalJones]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 It's easier to like Anora when you have no ambition for the human throne and aren't an Alistair fangirl, isn't it? 

It certainly is! Anora seems to get the most hate from those aspiring to be Cousland queens. For a long time I couldn't understand the Anora hate, because she always struck me as a capable ruler and I've always agreed to support her. As a child I always wanted to be the knight, not the princess, and thus I've never been interested in being the queen. Poncing around the court in fancy dresses, attending balls and the like...yuck. My female wardens rather be running around in armour and slicing or blasting enemies into bloody chunks. Anora can keep her throne, I don't want it!

[errant_knight]

You don't have to want to be queen to think that her level of ruthlessless and ambition might be bad for Fereldan. Personally, I think the happiest ending for the female Cousland and Alistair is to go off and be wardens together, but I also find that untenable for lots of reasons, so...there ya go.

[Sarah1281]

Oh, I can somewhat understand it. My first playthrough Anora was in the way of my HNF happy ending but I wasn't naive enough to assume she'd back me if I blew her cover after she told me not to or told her I was taking her throne so she didn't betray me and I had no reaon to actively hate her. She was just in the way. All my other playthroughs, I think she's great and she and Alistair are...well, they're together. That one playthrough where Loghain US and she asked how her father died...at least she cared, unlike everyone else about Alistair. How is she the heartless one again?

[Sarah1281]

errant_knight wrote...

You don't have to want to be queen to think that her level of ruthlessless and ambition might be bad for Fereldan. Personally, I think the happiest ending for the female Cousland and Alistair is to go off and be wardens together, but I also find that untenable for lots of reasons, so...there ya go.

Yes but wanting to be Queen and/or loving Alistair yourself and having her marry him instead adds more reasons to hate her. As long as Anora's ambitions seemed focused on making Ferelden stronger, which I felt that it did, then that wasn't a problem either. She's might be convinced she'st the only one who can save Ferelden but at least we know it's her goal.

[Tinnic]

I have no ambition for the human throne, I am yet to even play human in Origin. But I am an Alistair fangirl and darn proud of it! So with me, Alistair always get the thone. That alone doesn't make me dislike Anora. I dislike her because she's ruthless **** who will do anything and everything for power. Loghain would never sacrifice Anora, no matter what. Anora would sacrifice Loghain. She did sacrifice Loghain in a way. I mean, in the Landsmeet, she wasn't out of option. She could have offered to renounce all claims to the throne in exchange for Loghain's life. She said not a peep and it might have worked too. In the very least Eamon might have spoken up to try and convince Alistair to spare Loghain.



However, this is not a "I hate Anora" thread. We have enough of those already. What I want to know is what would Anora and Alistair be like, ten years after the Blight. I mean, in my last play through. My city elf warden who was romancing Alistair and convinced him that they could stay together despite him becoming king and marrying Anora, made the ultimate sacrifice. So now there is a hardened Alistair on the throne with Anora and no PC to complicate matters. If the PC were to be brought back to life by... I don't know, the Maker or the Elven gods, and she returned to Feralden. What would she find?



Epilogue says hardened Alistair and Anora make a beloved pair of monarchs who more or less rule jointly, with Alistair deferring to Anora's judgement when they do disagree and can't reach a compromise. But what about their personal life. It wasn't uncommon for many married couple to have separate but adjoining bedrooms not too long ago, with husbands visiting wives or wives visiting their husband to have sex strictly for procreation purposes. Would that be the extent of Anora and Alistair's personal contact? As in, Alistair would just tell Anora to come see him when she thinks she's most receptive and that's it? Or do they learn to confide in each other? Tell them their hopes and fears? Actually be friends? Remember that Maric himself didn't have the most romantic of marriages. He and Rowan had deep affection for each other but ardent love they had for other people.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

You don't have to want to be queen to think that her level of ruthlessless and ambition might be bad for Fereldan. Personally, I think the happiest ending for the female Cousland and Alistair is to go off and be wardens together, but I also find that untenable for lots of reasons, so...there ya go.

Yes but wanting to be Queen and/or loving Alistair yourself and having her marry him instead adds more reasons to hate her. As long as Anora's ambitions seemed focused on making Ferelden stronger, which I felt that it did, then that wasn't a problem either. She's might be convinced she'st the only one who can save Ferelden but at least we know it's her goal.

Well, Hate is a strong word, too strong even when my PC thinks Alistair should execute her. Hate is reserved for Howe, and to a lesser extent, Anora's father. Disliking her, having a certain amount of contempt for her, not wanting her on the throne, even wanting to backhand that smug complacancy off her face --none of that requires hate.

Does anyone seriously think that the PC and Alistair wouldn't have a better life if they married and went from adventure to adventure as wardens? Taking the throne is a sacrifice that requires Alistair to have accepted the duty and the PC to be willing to support him by losing a certain freedom as well. It's a huge responsibility. I don't make Alistair king or the PC queen because it's their best possible ending, but because I think it's the best thing to do while allowing for a modicum of happiness.

Modifié par errant_knight, 24 avril 2010 - 07:32 .

[Sarah1281]

Does anyone seriously think that the PC and Alistair wouldn't have a better life if they married and went from adventure to adventure as wardens? Taking the throne is a sacrifice that requires Alistair to have accepted the duty and the PC to be willing to support him by losing a certain freedom as well. It's a huge responsibility. I don't make Alistair king or the PC queen because it's their best possible ending, but because I think it's the best thing to do while allowing for a modicum of happiness.

Alistair, of course, would be happier if he could leave Ferelden in capable hands and do just that. Anora, on the other hand, is happier while on the throne. The PC...well it depends what kind of person they are. Some would be happier as Queen even with the sacrifice.

[Xandurpein]

I think that Alistair and Anora would never be able to really love each other. It's obvious that they both have hangups and in many ways both their emotional problems prevent them from reaching the other. At heart I think both of them, but for very different reasons need a lot of affirmation, and as long as they don't get that affirmation they are not very good at giving it.

Alistair is a wonderful person, but he really needs a lot of unconditional love to truly open up. I believe that he would take any hint of disapproval from a woman personally, rather than try to rationalize it.

I think that Anora is a typical product of a cold upbringing. Anora is brought up with enormous expectations and lots of demands, but very little affection. I think she believes she needs to be perfect to ever be worthy of her dad's approval, an approval he never really gives her.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 24 avril 2010 - 08:13 .

[CalJones]

Well, I'm not sure about that - he speaks of her with great affection and calls her formidable. Whether he tells her so to her face, I don't know, but in the books he's portrayed as taciturn and not given to showing emotion too often. The one thing we do know was that he was an absentee father figure - after Rowan's death he spent nearly all his time in Denerim with Maric, leaving Anora with her mother. A visit from Dad was probably a special treat for her, leading to a rather more idealised impression of him than one might had of a father who one sees sitting in front of the TV on a daily basis, farting and scratching his balls.

[Xandurpein]

CalJones wrote...

Well, I'm not sure about that - he speaks of her with great affection and calls her formidable. Whether he tells her so to her face, I don't know, but in the books he's portrayed as taciturn and not given to showing emotion too often. The one thing we do know was that he was an absentee father figure - after Rowan's death he spent nearly all his time in Denerim with Maric, leaving Anora with her mother. A visit from Dad was probably a special treat for her, leading to a rather more idealised impression of him than one might had of a father who one sees sitting in front of the TV on a daily basis, farting and scratching his balls.

He claims to be very proud of her, but he doesn't listen to her. If Loghain had been true to his words and trusted Anora's abilities he could have avided a whole lot of trouble.

[CalJones]

Well, you're not wrong there...but he has lost the ability to think rationaly over the course of the game. His behaviour during the game doesn't necessarily mean he didn't show her any affection during her upbringing. He just wasn't there for most of the time.

[Taritu]

Queen Elizabeth the first never had a husband because if she did, she'd lose a lot of her power. While it seems that women in Ferelden don't lose all their power, Anora seems to think the same way.

[sylvanaerie]

My favorite run through my PC didn't put Alistair on the throne. Anora wanted it, my Dalish thought that was good enough for her so she dueled Loghain so she could give the throne to Anora and run off to be a Gray Warden with Alistair and told Eamon where to stick it.

[Tinnic]

Taritu wrote...

Queen Elizabeth the first never had a husband because if she did, she'd lose a lot of her power. While it seems that women in Ferelden don't lose all their power, Anora seems to think the same way.

Queen Elizabeth was a tudor. SHE was the blood heir to the throne. The case of Anora is more the situation of Catherine II of Russia. Who married into the royal family. 

Edit: Come of think of it, I think Anora might have been fashioned after Catherine II of Russia...

Modifié par Tinnic, 25 avril 2010 - 04:40 .

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that Anora is a typical product of a cold upbringing. Anora is brought up with enormous expectations and lots of demands, but very little affection. I think she believes she needs to be perfect to ever be worthy of her dad's approval, an approval he never really gives her.

This is true of Maric's boys as well.  The rebellion generation pretty much sucks at parenting, Bryce and Eleanor Cousland excepted.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 avril 2010 - 04:48 .

[sleepingbelow]

Addai67 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that Anora is a typical product of a cold upbringing. Anora is brought up with enormous expectations and lots of demands, but very little affection. I think she believes she needs to be perfect to ever be worthy of her dad's approval, an approval he never really gives her.

This is true of Maric's boys as well.  The rebellion generation pretty much sucks at parenting, Bryce and Eleanor Cousland excepted.

I dunno, ironically Howe's kids are kind of awesome, roight?

[Addai]

sleepingbelow wrote...

I dunno, ironically Howe's kids are kind of awesome, roight?

No thanks to their parents!

[fongiel24]

Tinnic wrote...

Edit: Come of think of it, I think Anora might have been fashioned after Catherine II of Russia...

I wish I could remember where I read it but it's actually Empress Celene of Orlais who was based on Catherine II. Celene is known as a great patron of the arts, trade, and science I think.

And no, I don't think Anora could grow to love Alistair. I don't think Anora is completely without emotions, she has just been conditioned to think first with her head, then with her heart. To gain her affection I think a man would first have to gain her respect. Alistair has a lot of good traits, but it requires somebody with a lot of patience to appreciate them because they tend to be somewhat understated (at least when he's unhardened). I just don't think Anora has the patience to appreciate Alistair. Anora can appreciate Cailan's idealism and youth-like enthusiasm because she grew up with him but with Alistair she hasn't shared that kind of experience.

[CalJones]

Although if he's hardened there's a line in the epilogue about him surprising her by his willingness to learn how to govern. So I daresay it's possible she can grow to respect him...though only if he overcomes his Loghain issues. That's going to be the main stumbling block.

[Sarah1281]

Anora should have the sense not to wax poetic abou her poor dead father in front of Alistair given how obvious his hatred was. Even if Loghain's still alive he's quickly shipped off to Orlais so even then he won't be a huge factor.